NISMO Z Header - any count?

[Ron Earp]

Are the original NISMO Z headers any good for a IT race car? I don't know much about the headers, but they are available from time to time. I don't know what I have on the 260Z right now, but it doesn't look like much, maybe a Hooker or something like that. Not sure.

If the NISMO piece isn't any good where can one source a good Z header?

Ron

[Parrish57]

Ron.... I used to use a header that was a copy of the NISMO but was a step header. It had slightly smaller primaries. That gave it a lot more torque but cost about 2 peak HP. I got it from Sam Moore. It worked well but I later switched to the Sam Neave header. I haven't been able to do side by side dyno evaluations but it appears that HP is much higher. And the sound is SWEET!

[jmark]

Sam Neave's site

http://home.earthlink.net/~samneavelna/

[Ron Earp]

Yep, I have been talking to Sam and he has one available, supposed to let me know if it is sold or not. I'll have to follow up with him on that.

Steve, do you run the two banks for a good while after the header, or do you join them straightaway? Do you use a muffler?

I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get.

I'll have a good look at the one on the 260 this weekend, but I don't think it is a good looking header from visual inspection.

Ron

[jmark]

Here is Greg Ira's EP 240Z at VIR with Sam's header.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/VIR%2006%20Oak%20Tree/th_EPCarfrontstraightVIR.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/VIR%2006%20Oak%20Tree/?action=view&current=EPCarfrontstraightVIR.flv)

[Parrish57]

Ron... When I first ran the Nismo style header I had a collector that went right from the two 2 1/2's to a single 3 inch. From there I went all the way out the back of the car to the stock exhaust location. I used a very small Bullit muffler to keep the sound down. And boy did it ever. It was one of the quietest cars on the track. I later changed to a much shorter pipe that exited just in front of the RR tire. That cut the weight of the system in half, eliminated the muffler, and shifted the weight to the right side of the car. All were improvements. The downside of exiting on the right side is smacking the asphalt on transition to the banking at Lowes and Rockingham.

When I switched to the Neave header I adapted my exhaust to his single 2 1/2 collector. I think the better thing to do would have been to start over, but it was so very close that I went cheap. With this set up my sound readings are about 96-97 db. As for the corect length of the exhaust, Sam has done a lot of homework on that, including extensive dyno testing. I don't know the exact length off hand but if you ran a straight pipe that ended right at the differential you would be very close.

Mark... Greg's car sounds SWEET!!!!!!

[kthomas]

"I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get."

I am curious to know if he asks for the cam lobe profile and intake runner lengths. If not, he ain't gonna get anything useful. Let us know what he comes up with and I'll compare it to what we know.

The smaller Nismo header at 1-5/8 OD primaries, is still too big for an ITS motor. The stepped Nismo, as sold by RallyeSport and Rebombo, er I mean Rebello, would be better at 1-1/2 for the whole length. They're too big too, but a step in the right direction. The only thing I don't like about the Nismo layout is the collectors (oh, they're too big also) make it very difficult to equalize the lengths of the secondaries.

The Sam Neave header if 1-1/2 could be one of the best commercially available options at this point. We never tested one, but it is very similar to an old Clifford Research, which was probably the closest thing in performance to our ARRC header.

Regardless of what you run the key is to optimize your mixture for best power. That means real instrumentation and dyno time.

[Cobra Tim]

"I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get."

I am curious to know if he asks for the cam lobe profile and intake runner lengths. If not, he ain't gonna get anything useful. Let us know what he comes up with and I'll compare it to what we know.

The smaller Nismo header at 1-5/8 OD primaries, is still too big for an ITS motor. The stepped Nismo, as sold by RallyeSport and Rebombo, er I mean Rebello, would be better at 1-1/2 for the whole length. They're too big too, but a step in the right direction. The only thing I don't like about the Nismo layout is the collectors (oh, they're too big also) make it very difficult to equalize the lengths of the secondaries.

The Sam Neave header if 1-1/2 could be one of the best commercially available options at this point. We never tested one, but it is very similar to an old Clifford Research, which was probably the closest thing in performance to our ARRC header.

Regardless of what you run the key is to optimize your mixture for best power. That means real instrumentation and dyno time.
[/b]

A few months ago we were swapping emails discussing the Clifford Research header and exhaust layouts. A little over a month ago we got the header installed and fabricated the secondaries into a flowmaster 2-1 collector. I then ran a few feet of 2 1/2 piping to an ultraflow muffler that dumps right before the rear axle. Not only does this system out perform the old MSA header, but its sounds real sweet. I just wanted to thank you for your help.

Ive seen both of Gregs cars several times (I pitted for him and Guy at the 12 hours of homestead a few years back when they ran and won with the ITS car) and they both make plenty of power for their classes. With Sams recent track record, Im thinking about having him build and ITS 240 motor, and even some work on our BRE (Yes... A REAL BRE car) roadster U20.

[Ron Earp]

Katman, RE: calculations Adam is very meticulous and I'm trying to collect all the info for him. I have some of it, but some of it I have to find/measure. I also need to learn more about the header I have. The car came from the Atlanta region and the more I look at it the more it appears to be something someone fabricated, not a off the shelf piece. Looks a little "rough" for a NISMO or brand name header. I do want to measure it and check it out but I've some other issues that popped up this week that need curing......

I put a 2.5" side exit pipe on the car but it has a muffler that is fairly restrictive I think. If I can ditch that for CMP I will, drop a little weight too. I know yours has the power and sounds good, that is certain. I've got a lot of tuning to do on this motor as well since I'm basically starting at square one.

We had a little off in school that caused some damage this weekend but I think that I can get it all back together in time for CMP. Sure hope so!

Ron

[Joe Harlan]

Katman, RE: calculations Adam is very meticulous and I'm trying to collect all the info for him. I have some of it, but some of it I have to find/measure. I also need to learn more about the header I have. The car came from the Atlanta region and the more I look at it the more it appears to be something someone fabricated, not a off the shelf piece. Looks a little "rough" for a NISMO or brand name header. I do want to measure it and check it out but I've some other issues that popped up this week that need curing......

I put a 2.5" side exit pipe on the car but it has a muffler that is fairly restrictive I think. If I can ditch that for CMP I will, drop a little weight too. I know yours has the power and sounds good, that is certain. I've got a lot of tuning to do on this motor as well since I'm basically starting at square one.

We had a little off in school that caused some damage this weekend but I think that I can get it all back together in time for CMP. Sure hope so!

Ron
[/b]

Ron, can you post a photo of the header you are using?

Joe

[Ron Earp]

Yep, should be able to this week when I'm working on the car for CMP. It has some ratty header blanket/wrap thing on it that hides most of it which is why I haven't had a good look at it. You Z guys might be able to look at it and instantly say "oh, that's a XYZ header" but I don't have that experience.

I'll get it off the trailer Tuesday and up Tuesday night, get some pictures. Right now I'll look at photos of the car I have and see if there is a picture in there. Nope, all I've got is this "pre-fire picture" and you can't see squat there. You can see that rubbed off VIN plate where some previous owner passed this thing off as a 240Z though - check that on the right fender over there. Says "Max Power 151hp at....." and then it is rubbed out, as well as the type of car.

Thanks,
Ron

[kthomas]

"I'll get it off the trailer Tuesday and up Tuesday night, get some pictures"

Got Pics?

[[email protected]]

I have a Nismo copy with the 1.5" step and 2.25" collectors in the for sale area. Ran well, when everything else worked I ran as high as 2nd at Lowes. And if you have seen me drive, you know that it was hp related, not driver.

I am currently running a header I build based on some discussions I had with some folks who were involved with some championship cars. I have not run it on the dyno yet, but I know I frustrated some SRF's at VIR last fall due to a slow driver and a rocket ship on the straights. What can I say, I hadn't been on any track in 18 months and that track in 2 years.

If you are interested in the stepped nismo copy I can make you an unbelieveable deal!

Mike

[x-ring]

Mike -

I'll take it. Oh, how much do you want for it? LOL

email me at work if you would. I'll PM you my work address.

[JeffYoung]

Keith, Ron and I have both been on the road the last few weeks. We'll get some pictures this weekend and post them up.

Mike, might be interested in that header as well.

[x-ring]

Mike, might be interested in that header as well.
[/b]

Too late. Deal is done and the check is on the way.

You snooze you loose, dude. :P

Besides, I NEED it. I'm using some pacesetter / hooker / hedman POS now that was on the car when I got it. I'd probably be better off with a factory cast manifold than what I have now.

[JeffYoung]

LOL..all yours Ty. I was hoping Mike could be convinced to possibly construct antother??

[Parrish57]

Jeff, Ron, et al. All is not lost.. I too have a Nismo copy 1.5 primary with 2.5 collectors that is in the scap heap... Er, premium sale shelf! I'll even throw in a FREE set of steel drums with the purchase of this fine header. But wait! There's more! Order now and I'll wrap your Nismo copy header with a space age heat barrier! Operator is standing by! 803-327-9157

Steve's Used Headers

p.s. I was going to post pix of both the nismo and the Sam Neave header in the next few days. The Sam's header is out of the car (as is the motor).

[Ron Earp]

Put up some pics, like to see that. We've a buddy who could use those headers on his new Z build - another one will join the ranks in the SE. He's on the cheap those if you are parting with them that'll fit the bill! I shot you a PM on those.


R

[JeffYoung]

Who in teh world would run crappy steel drums?? lol..

[[email protected]]

I could be convinced to build another header, but they aren't cheap that way. There is about $200. in materials by the time you do the collectors, O2 sensor bungs, flange, and the tubing. Throw in the labor and coating, and it can get scary. Also it would be late summer at the earliest as I have to finish my current project and then get my car ready for Lowes. I just signed up for a training class at work the week before Lowes!!!! Had to do it. Let me know what you are interested in.

Mike

[Parrish57]

Hey, those drums did the job for me! Beggers can't be chosers. I'll save the header for you. It's old but probably just what the doctor ordered for someone on a budget.

[Ron Earp]

Hey, those drums did the job for me! Beggers can't be chosers. I'll save the header for you. It's old but probably just what the doctor ordered for someone on a budget.
[/b]

Save those drums up too, they are good spares as you learned! :D Thanks for keeping the header around. If you go to Roebling and have space bring it with and we'll work out an exchange.

R




but I know I frustrated some SRF's at VIR last fall due to a slow driver and a rocket ship on the straights.
[/b]

That is perfect, they need to be frustrated from time to time! Maybe the regions will all finally figure out SMs should go with SRFs, and ITA and ITS need to be elsewhere. Being a non-top 10 driver myself I end up in the pack of those things most times.

R

[Parrish57]

[attachmentid=895]Here's the pix of the new header. Pic #1 is the Sam Neave header. I'll have to put the NISMO header in another post.

[jmark]

Here is a pic of Sam's header from his website.

[attachmentid=896]

[Parrish57]

Apparantly I can't get the other pic up. I'll work on it......

OK... Try this http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/parrish240z/...m?.dir=/9db4re2 (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/parrish240z/album?.dir=/9db4re2)

[JeffYoung]

Thanks STeve. Let me talk to our new 260 guy and see if he wants this (I suspect he does). Have you and Ron discussed price?

[Ron Earp]

Cool, thanks for that. Sam's is a good piece and I want one, but it'll need to wait until I do some other suspension bits to the car.

My header doesn't look like any of those. I don't know what in the heck I've got, some sort of Atlanta creation since the car came from that region. I won't complain about power though since I can't use what I have at the moment.

R

[kthomas]

"OK... Try this http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/parrish240z/...=/9db4re2" (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/parrish240z/...m?.dir=/9db4re2)

That old header is the NISMO Comp.

"My header doesn't look like any of those. I don't know what in the heck I've got, some sort of Atlanta creation since the car came from that region. '

Whose car was it? I might know that header.

[Ron Earp]

Katman,

It was red when first built in 1992, it was silver when we got it in 2005. Chuck Newman was the original builder. It has been owned by:

Joe Kent, 93
Shawn McLaughlon, 95
Jim Dunn, 99
Ron Earp/Jeff Young, 05 - on

we've got some times for it around here at Road Atlanta, somewhere in the paperwork we have. Seems some 1:44s are in there somewhere.

It has some pretty good attention to detail and a TON of notes with it. Anything you can provide on history would be good. It used to have a pretty hot motor apparently, at least according to those dyno notes, but before we got it a freshly rebuilt motor was put in that is sort of average I'd say. A Z carb guy of fame, Radcliffe (spelling) did the carbs, got notes on that.

Car was setup sort of odd. It had a droop limiter on the right hand side attached to the body and to the sway bar. I think it was too short. The car would push like you wouldn't believe in a right hand turn, but not in a left. Took me awhile to locate that steel cable and I think what it was doing is when the car rolled left it made the cable tight and limited suspension travel. At any rate, I cut the cable and the problem went away!

R

[Tom Donnelly]

Ron,
Post pictures of the old header you have. I'll dig up some pics of mine.

Attached is the header in my first car, after it met a wall. I might have some
better pics somewhere else. It was a Sunbelt motor with E31 head but I don't
know whose header.

And where exactly was this cable hooked up? Right front? Right rear?
Are you even running a rear bar. (I don't)

Tom

(Well the system isn't letting me add an attachment, I'll have to scale it down)

[Ron Earp]

Hey Tom,

My header is on the car and darn hard to get pictures of because of a wrap and blanket on it. But, I will try and get some pics. Would like to see yours as well.

The car had that "droop limiter" on the front. I don't have a rear bar and don't intend to have one. I like the handling right now, it is loose in the rear, turns in ok (I'd like it to turn in better), but I think we need some stiffer springs all around. It seems to have what I'd consider an excessive amount of body roll.

To put it in perspective it rolls a LOT more than Steve P's Z. I'd like it to get close to his setup for "flatness" and then see where the handling is at that point.

R

[kthomas]

"It was red when first built in 1992, it was silver when we got it in 2005. Chuck Newman was the original builder. It has been owned by:

Joe Kent, 93
Shawn McLaughlon, 95
Jim Dunn, 99
Ron Earp/Jeff Young, 05 - on

we've got some times for it around here at Road Atlanta, somewhere in the paperwork we have. Seems some 1:44s are in there somewhere."

Let's see, June 7, 1997, Shawn McLaughlin, 1:44.631 Qualifying Road Atlanta Pro-IT. Chet Wittel: 1:37.657, new lap record. :eclipsee_steering: That would have been the old track configuration I think. God I miss it.

I remember Chuck but only vaguely remember the car so no joy on the header ID. Eddie Radatz is probably who you're thinking of for the carb setup. He's still around. Let me know next time you're at RA- it'll be good to see a 260Z back in the hunt.

[Ron Earp]

Looks like the car and driver were quite a bit off record! But with ya'lls car and driver it'd be hard to get close to you for anyone I'm sure. Wish I would have been around to see your Z run on track but you guys quit driving it a bit before I started.

Ours has a lot of work to be done to it. No offense to the prevoous owners/builders, but the entire car was wired with no fuses or circuit breakers and I'm not a big fan of that. It also has a rather small gauge battery/ground wires with long runs. So yesterday I tore all of that out and am building a new system in with circuit breaker panel, switches, etc. Since I've been chasing electrical gremlins at every track event this year it is time to renovate that part of the car.

Eddie Radatz is the guy that did the notes on the carbs with respect to setup. They seem to work well. They're really rich at idle but run like stink above 4200 RPM. Given the list of things that need to be tweaked on the car the carbs come in lower on the list than suspension etc.
R

[[email protected]]

If you get those 260 carbs to idle with a good mixture it will detonate and blow up really spectacularly! Don't ask me why I know that, but I do know that!

Mike

also only use wide band o2 sensors. The regular automotive ones will lie to you and help you to kill your engine. Same deal, don't ask!

M