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View Full Version : Any thoughts on a 914 2.0 in ITB???



Fastfred92
03-15-2007, 10:49 AM
This car has been moved from ITA to ITB, does it have a chance? Is anybody running one?

924Guy
03-15-2007, 11:00 AM
What kinda weight they got it at?

JimLill
03-15-2007, 03:05 PM
What kinda weight they got it at?
[/b]

2260

RSTPerformance
03-15-2007, 03:46 PM
Weren't those the cars that ran up front with MR2's back when ITA was a bit slower?

Raymond

924Guy
03-16-2007, 07:03 AM
At that weight, they should be a pretty tight package! I'm having enough fun with my 2.0L at 2600#! They should be tough to catch, if anyone actually builds one and brings it out.

Not sure how the frame flex would work out in IT trim, though; seems like that could be the one weak point, no pun intended?

RSTPerformance
03-16-2007, 08:01 AM
I looked up the GCR and only see the 914 in ITB, I didn't realize the change. Those cars back in the day had some great battles with the MR2's. Based on that, I would think they could make a strong ITB car. Their has to be some sitting around someplace... Who is going to bring one out?

Raymond

Fastfred92
03-16-2007, 09:23 AM
Their has to be some sitting around someplace... Who is going to bring one out?
[/b]

Raymond, know where any are today??? ( or anyone else ) Most of the old SCCA cars I have seen have gone to a PCA class ( similar to IT but with twin carbs )

Greg Amy
03-16-2007, 09:37 AM
I had one of those (a 1.7) on the street years ago. Fun car, but it drives a lot like the Volkswagens they were generally based on (actually, it was a Porsche-designed car, supposed to be sold as a VW...)

I also recall the chassis flex problem. Didn't the /6 tend to actually crack so bad as to nearly break in half under hard competition? I guess the rear cage bars would go a long way to helping on that.

It's a good car with a torquey engine (and lots of aftermarket support - after all, it's the Type 4 bus engine), nice (ZF?) transmission (but sloppy rod-type shifter), good brakes, nice balance and weight. Downsides include torsion bar front suspension, and not a lot of aftermarket chassis support.

It would be a fun project.

charrbq
03-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Could be rather competitive at that weight and classification. It would be tough to find one that had the original FI rather than a Weber conversion. It would be dang near impossible to find one that wasn't rusted through, though. They had a really bad problem with that.

gsbaker
03-17-2007, 04:20 PM
I had one of those (a 1.7) on the street years ago. Fun car, but it drives a lot like the Volkswagens they were generally based on (actually, it was a Porsche-designed car, supposed to be sold as a VW...)[/b]
I had the 2.0, and sold it to a friend who still has it--I think.


...It's a good car with a torquey engine (and lots of aftermarket support - after all, it's the Type 4 bus engine), nice (ZF?) transmission (but sloppy rod-type shifter), good brakes, nice balance and weight. Downsides include torsion bar front suspension, and not a lot of aftermarket chassis support.[/b]
Torquey is right; I snapped an engine mount. These are a gas to drive. They rotate instantly.

bamfp
04-22-2007, 09:28 PM
I was going to build a 914 for ITC but the possiblity of an ECU rule change has stopped that. The D-jet FI is really hard to find good used parts, since new ones are NLA.

924Guy
04-23-2007, 09:26 AM
Would it be worth considering a carb conversion? That is possible, right? Never looked at the rules closely myself, wouldn't be surprised if it too much of a performance hit...

bamfp
04-23-2007, 09:24 PM
Carb conversion not legal for IT unless it cam with one. And the only 914 to come with carbs was the Euro 1.8L it had dual single barrel Solex's


Blake

loperdw
04-24-2007, 08:19 AM
I drive and ITB Accord racecar and have a 73 914 2.0 with FI as a weekend car. Yes that's right original FI on a 914. Its in excellent condition, almost perfect interior, no rust, sprung just right. Handles like a magnet. I've done a number of DE's in it and its amazing where you can go flat out in that car where no one else can.

It makes lots of low end and mid power but it doesn't have the top end. i.e. this is a great autocross car. With the right amount of time and a knowledgeable mechanic it could be competitive in B, but the cost would be up there. The brakes also aren;t much to speak about either, actually the stock brakes are pretty bad. But it's a Porsche! Everyone that i know of upgrades the front brakes to BMW calipers real fast as thats one of the weaker points.

I've considered it, cause i love driving that car, then backed off when i look at the availability of the parts. I can get accord body parts at almost any junkyard and pep boys carries everything else. 914 parts???? ebay i guess. There is one that runs in the SEDiv that I see somtimes, not sure how they do. I bow down to anyone that does it though. I know what kind of time I have to spend on the street car, let alone what might be required to race one

Racer Chris
08-14-2007, 06:54 PM
The 2 liter 914 engine was a lot better than the 1.7/1.8 engines because Porsche redesigned the cylinder heads just for the Porsches. VW Buses never got the upgraded heads. They still didn't make much power due to the crappy camshaft designed for D-jet and the valve springs limit rpm to 6200 or less anyway.
A fully prepped IT legal 2 liter 914 engine will make about 110 hp peak. At 2260lb how does that fit the formula?
The stock brakes are fine if you know how set them up. (The BMW caliper upgrade is a waste of money IMO.) I used the stock 4 cyl. calipers on my FProd car for several years. With good pads and cooling ducts they are certainly adequate.
I think I'd rather run a 2 liter in ITB than a 1.7 in ITC.
Wheels and tires are a challenge. Factory alloys are 5.5" x 15" with 4 x 130mm bolt pattern. The rear wheel wells will barely accept 205 Hoosiers with perfectly offset rims.

924Guy
08-14-2007, 10:18 PM
I'm running about 100-105 at the rears, on the dyno, and am competitive, it seems (based on last weekend's results at the IT-Fest, Mid-O) at 2600lbs... so one would think the '14 might have a shot at that weight - how's the driveline efficiency? Presumably better than a torque tube car?

Fastfred92
08-15-2007, 12:12 AM
My guess is the 2.0 would make a decent B car, and even better with the looming ECU rules... Biggest hurddle I see is finding a 73-76 2.0 donor that does not look like it has been at the bottom of the sea for 30 years... I had several of these cars 20 years ago but they sure seem to have disappeared now, decent solid ones that is.

Knestis
08-15-2007, 08:39 AM
Particularly on "CRX tracks" (like Mid-O this past weekend?), the 914 would be a good choice, I think. The IT rules equalize some of the inherent weaknesses of top-heavy boxes like the Golf and Volvos but they don't completely cancel out those laws that Newton came up with.

K

924Guy
08-15-2007, 09:00 AM
Yeah - I'd feel a little like a sitting duck humping down the back straight at Mid-O in a 914, except that with such little weight and low height/CG, they should be able to tear through the Keyhole almost as fast as Joey (no-one's as fast as Joey, except Bob, through there - did you see that video!?!), so everyone else should be just catching up by the braking zone...

Of course you could always choose the cheap and easy route, and build a '24! ;) They're all galvanized, so not really much rust to worry about, and we've shown they're far from a sitting duck on the straights... pretty deadly, actually! Check out this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VbZGmU-EaFE

OK, enough tooting the 924's horn... ;)

Fastfred92
08-15-2007, 09:15 AM
924guy, I am thinking you are getting a little aero help there too. Those other shoebox cars seem to die in 3rd gear.......

Anybody know of any solid 914 2.0's out there, in the southeastern half of our world?

924Guy
08-15-2007, 09:30 AM
Yeah, that is very likely - I can't imagine any other car having any better aero in ITB, and that's once we hit around 90mph... though I think my 4th gear may be just a little bit better for that straight, seems like I actually stay in 4th a little longer than them, despite a lower shift point (6k vs. 7).

ScotMac
08-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Hmmm...my fiero would challenge you for that ITB aero championship!!! :014:

However, power would be a whole different ballgame. :(

:lol:

924Guy
08-15-2007, 02:51 PM
LOL... maybe we could line 'em up at the top of the hill at Road Atlanta, and race 'em soapbox derby style, coast down to the finish line... :D

Racer Chris
08-15-2007, 06:16 PM
...
Anybody know of any solid 914 2.0's out there, in the southeastern half of our world?
[/b]
They come available from time to time but the price tag for a good rust free car is enough to discourage any low budget racers from running one. Engines and parts are also expensive.
www.914club.com and www.914world.com are good places to search for cars, parts and resources.
PCA racing rules put IT 914 2.0's into their GT5 category (fully modified, up to 2.2L), and their stock class is very restrictive, so there isn't much incentive for setting up a car to race with both clubs.

ScotMac
08-15-2007, 09:41 PM
LOL... maybe we could line 'em up at the top of the hill at Road Atlanta, and race 'em soapbox derby style, coast down to the finish line... :D
[/b]

I just checked, the cars are listed at only 80lbs apart, so evening the weights to make it fair would be easy.

Sounds like fun! Let me know when!!! :smilie_pokal: :smilie_pokal: :smilie_pokal:

Fastfred92
05-28-2008, 04:23 PM
I think I have found a car, does anybody know if any 914's are still out in the IT world?? Any tech savy guys out there that know D jet and how the new ECU rules help this ancient fuel injection??

JeffYoung
05-28-2008, 04:31 PM
There was a yellow one that ran in ITB at Roebling a few years back. I think the driver's name was Chief Wells. Last IT one I have seen.

There's a decent book on all Bosch EFI systems on Amazon. Covers D, L, K, etc. Worth the money I spent on it.

Knestis
05-28-2008, 09:40 PM
Hey, Fred - Cameron actually knows something about air cooled VWs and he loves oddball challenges like 30-year-old fuel injection. And he's pretty close to you.

http://www.raceconover.com

K

lateapex911
05-29-2008, 08:21 AM
Word has it that the Mosers are so fast in the keyhole due to their use of A compound Hoosiers..on their 2250lb cars.

Since the 914 is 2260, and has better weight dist., there might be some time to be found in compound choice....

just a thought...

joeg
05-29-2008, 11:37 AM
30 year FI?

Maybe closer to 40 year.

bamfp
05-29-2008, 11:09 PM
There were two for sale on 914club a couple of weeks ago. They are now sold. I do not know who bought them or if the will be raced in IT or not. They had not seen the track in over 10 years. As far as an ECU you SDS will work since you can replace the engine harness.

Blake Meredith

Fastfred92
05-30-2008, 06:26 PM
Anybody know what kind of weight you can get these cars down to?

bamfp
05-30-2008, 09:23 PM
I would say about mid 1900 without the cage. My 71 weight 1754 with a header no vent system and fiberglass bumpers. I would add about 50# for the bumpers and 10 for the vents. My car also had the early doors without the crash beams in them which is a lot lighter. You will want and early 73 car. The Porsche tech specs box says 2139# but it does not say for what year. I would say that is for a 1974.

Blake

Fastfred92
06-06-2008, 11:09 PM
Ok, so I have been down this road before. I have once again left sanity at the door..... I found and purchased a donor 73 2.0 914, paid in full, before i could reconsider. With little rust at all I can actually start the process of building the next ITB "must have" car.

Man I hope I don't regret this in the morning

924Guy
06-07-2008, 07:43 AM
You know 924's have less rust and are more plentiful, easier to build... ;)

Fastfred92
06-09-2008, 12:55 AM
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/Fastfred92/P1120162.jpgHere she is...........

lateapex911
06-09-2008, 08:55 AM
Love the bus...

Knestis
06-09-2008, 09:29 AM
I think that's cool as hell, Fred. And I don't care if you DO respect yourself in the morning. We just like that you put out. :)

K

lateapex911
06-09-2008, 12:55 PM
yea Fred, just coyote arm it if it becomes an issue.....

JeffYoung
06-09-2008, 01:12 PM
I like it!

Give it a go Fred.... B is actually happenin' right now and that car might have a shot at that weight.

Check out that Bosch Engine Management book from eBay, I got it a few weeks back for the L-Jetronic on my car and it's good stuff. Comprehensive, but easy enough for even me to understand. It covers all forms of Bosch injection up to the late 80s, including the mechnical types.

Fastfred92
06-09-2008, 11:05 PM
Oh Jeff my man, no offense but I am not interested in that book as i have found the bible of 914 fuel injection! The good book can be found at www.sdsefi.com They have what basically amounts to a freaking plug and play ecu that does away with the late 60's D Jet ECU and they in conjunction with a well know air cooled engine builder have a kit just for this car! With the new sensor, harness and ECU rule this thing may actually fall in my lap..... The old girl is not looking too bad in the morning !

924Guy
06-10-2008, 09:04 AM
Hmmm, not seeing how that system would work... not with stock injectors, anyway?

Fastfred92
06-10-2008, 06:32 PM
Vaughan, check out this link http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16700&cat=320&page=1

924Guy
06-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Wow, pretty slick... now don't tell the Volvo guys! ;)

Harvey
06-11-2008, 12:33 PM
We already know.

924Guy
06-11-2008, 01:33 PM
We already know.

Well, gee, thanks for sharing! :p

lateapex911
06-11-2008, 01:33 PM
They say this in the description:
" Another added benefiot for D jet engines is the removal of the MPS that can be problematic and VERY expensive to replace"

What is the MPS?

924Guy
06-11-2008, 01:35 PM
Apparently, what the rest of the world calls a MAP sensor...

Fastfred92
06-11-2008, 04:14 PM
They say this in the description:
What is the MPS?

Jake

It is indeed the MAP sensor... Manifold pressure sensor and the particular unit used on 914's was developed just before color tv and just after man invented the light house....

Rebuilt one's go for $300 today........... GM MAP $30... Priceless