NX2000 Dyno Test

[Greg Amy]

I know it's extremely late notice, but we'll be dyno-testing the ITA NX2000 tomorrow, March 3rd, at Bishop Motorsports in Canton, CT (http://www.bishopmotorsports.com). An ECU tuning guy will be there and we'll see if we can get any more power out of this SR20DE.

Anyone and everyone is welcome to come by; we've got dozen or so Nissan forum guys interested in the tuner's products. We'll be starting around 10:00 AM and going for at least a couple hours, likely more.

Come on over, all info learned - including output numbers - will be made publicly available. - GA

[Racerlinn]

Anxiously awaiting that $1.99 retail piggyback board you come up with.
:D

[kbrewMR2]

keep us posted GA

any predictions?

[Ron Earp]

Anyone and everyone is welcome to come by; we've got dozen or so Nissan forum guys interested in the tuner's products. We'll be starting around 10:00 AM and going for at least a couple hours, likely more.

Come on over, all info learned - including output numbers - will be made publicly available. - GA
[/b]

Cool Greg, I like the openess. We've always posted anything we get and we're not front runners, but people seem to appreciate it. Be very interested to see how she turns out, good luck and may big numbers come your way!

Ron

[Andy Bettencourt]

Oh snap - she is a powerhouse.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Oh snap - she is a powerhouse. [/b]



Yup, we just got back... I will let Greg spill the beans!

[dominojd]

I know he's cheatin. He's gotta be. :D

All I'll say is the torque is more than andy's hp. :happy204:

[Conover]

Give us beans, Mr. Amy!

[JLawton]

<sigh> It&#39;s gonna be another long season............. :(

[Greg Amy]

From the data the guy gave me on my USB key:

154.3 hp @ 6200 RPM
143.4 tq @ 4800 RPM

...but someone told me they saw a run at 156.3...

Start the grumbling.

[kbrewMR2]

check the "smoothing" settings, correction factors, etc... those will eat up 2hp and then some in a hurry

[dickita15]

Grumble Grumble Grumble :(

[lateapex911]

Quick! Somebody call the ITAC!

At least it&#39;s butt ugly.....

[benspeed]

Still need to haul the Fiero over to the dyno guy - the rebuild seems to be healthy and she pulls much better.

But dang! Ya making some real power there! :023:

[JeffYoung]

I make 160 at the wheels from a 3.5 liter V8. DAMN that is a strong 2.0 motor.

Wow.

[dj10]

From the data the guy gave me on my USB key:

154.3 hp @ 6200 RPM
143.4 tq @ 4800 RPM

...but someone told me they saw a run at 156.3...

Start the grumbling. [/b]

Are you tuning with a EMS or flashed Ecu?




I make 160 at the wheels from a 3.5 liter V8. DAMN that is a strong 2.0 motor.

Wow. [/b]

Jeff the Brits are still pissed about the revolutionary war and the war of 1812, you think there going to give you a strong engine? :D

[Andy Bettencourt]

From the data the guy gave me on my USB key:

154.3 hp @ 6200 RPM
143.4 tq @ 4800 RPM

...but someone told me they saw a run at 156.3...

Start the grumbling. [/b]

Now convert the dynopacks to dynojets so you can really shock the establishment.

[Greg Amy]

On edit, more information.


Are you tuning with a EMS or flashed Ecu?[/b]
DJ, it&#39;s a factory ECU/motherboard with a RAM on daughterboard. Nice thing, it also incorporates the Consult diagnostic tools, all in one box, with a detachable cable that strings out of the LED hole in the back of the housing. Just the diagnostic stuff makes it worth the money.

As for power? We estimate it gave up - maybe - one or two ponies over the stock ECU.


you can really shock the establishment.[/b]
As I wrote to Andy in response to private mail, when others are willing to do a same way/same day DynaPack (instead of fictitious circumstantial DynoJets), invite two dozen people and a newspaper reporter to witness three hours of dyno tuning, and reveal all the gory details (including the data files on request), then we can talk.

Until then: nothing for me to be defensive or embarrassed about. Let them eat cake.

By the way: be careful with your reactions. If nothing else, the last twelve hours on just this specific thread (not to mention private email) has probably created more disincentive for scores of people towards being open and honest about their horsepower numbers than anything else. You can&#39;t lament about why more people don&#39;t do that and then give &#39;em crap at the same time...

See you at NHIS...

[R2 Racing]

Yup, about what I figured against my Dynapack results three days before the ARRC. I&#39;ll be back at the Dynapack in about two or three weeks. :eclipsee_steering:

[Knestis]

Good job, Greg - on all fronts. Engineering, stand-up-ness, honesty...

My crystal ball tells me that there will be at least two requests submitted that don&#39;t even simply BORDER on competition adjustments anymore, to slow down "all of the ITA NX2000s" or to give the competition a break.

K

[dj10]

Now convert the dynopacks to dynojets so you can really shock the establishment.
[/b]

How does a dynopac compare to a mustang or dynojet? These are the only 2 dyno&#39;s I can relate too.

[gran racing]

If nothing else, the last twelve hours on just this specific thread (not to mention private email) has probably created more disincentive for scores of people towards being open and honest about their horsepower numbers than anything else.[/b]

Where was this on the thread? Or are you primarily talking about PMs you&#39;ve received? I&#39;d like to know before I goto the dyno and post my numbers, especially since I&#39;m also using Kessler Engineering for my engine. Wahoo!

[JeffYoung]

Those numbers are good, but are people seriously talking about moving that car out of A???

Clearly an A car. I&#39;ve heard of 240SX numbers close to those, and the Integras aren&#39;t too far off, plus the Integra and CRX are much better suspension designs right?

It&#39;s not all about hp and tq

[Andy Bettencourt]

Those numbers are good, but are people seriously talking about moving that car out of A???

Clearly an A car. I&#39;ve heard of 240SX numbers close to those, and the Integras aren&#39;t too far off, plus the Integra and CRX are much better suspension designs right?

It&#39;s not all about hp and tq

[/b]

I hope not. A 2L FWD&#39;er is an A car.

[JimLill]

Hmmm... at least 185 HP at the crank...., a 32% gain over Nissan&#39;s claim. Now if I could get my 105HP ITB VW up to 138HP :blink:

[Jeremy Billiel]

I hope not. A 2L FWD&#39;er is an A car.

[/b]

Really? Where do I put paperwork in to make the GSR ITA? Heck I only have 1.8L and I am make less power than Greg ;)

[R2 Racing]

I&#39;ve heard of 240SX numbers close to those, and the Integras aren&#39;t too far off, plus the Integra and CRX are much better suspension designs right?[/b]
Greg&#39;s numbers are ~5hp and ~13lb-ft (at the wheel, of course) higher than what a real damn good Integra would do on a DynaPack. Combine that with the Integra being 80lbs heavier, and it makes you really have to drive the wheels off of it in the corners and utilize that better suspension. Certain tracks with show the strengths of each.

What&#39;s a real good whp number from a CRX on a DynaPack? ~128whp sound about right?

CRX = 17.72lbs/whp - fantastic, insane handleing
Integra = 17.42lbs/whp - pretty damn good handleing
NX = 16.33lbs/whp. - "another damn corner?!" handleing

The handleing helps even them out a bit. I can&#39;t speak for the 240&#39;s or the Miata&#39;s though since I don&#39;t know anything about them.

[gran racing]

"and I am make less power than Greg" on an unbuilt engine. LOL

[Jeremy Billiel]

"and I am make less power than Greg" on an unbuilt engine. LOL [/b]

The best HP numbers I have heard are 185HP for a GSR motor on a DynoJet. This is about the max. My stock motor on a Dynojet is about 165 HP.

If I reference this post the DynoJet over estimate by 13% or the DynaJet is .87 of a DynoJet&#39;s data. If my math is right at 185HP *.87 = 160HP I am also 80 lbs heavier!!

So the way I see it the GSR belongs in ITA!

LOL

:happy204: :happy204:

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...c=10451&hl=dyno (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10451&hl=dyno)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Really? Where do I put paperwork in to make the GSR ITA? Heck I only have 1.8L and I am make less power than Greg ;) [/b]

Good catch! Add...with 140 stock hp. :)




CRX = 17.72lbs/whp - fantastic, insane handleing
Integra = 17.42lbs/whp - pretty damn good handleing
NX = 16.33lbs/whp. - "another damn corner?!" handleing
[/b]

Miata 1.8 = 17.63lbs/whp - fantastic, insane handling (using 135 wheel dynojets)

And place the CRX and the Miata in the same subcategory of &#39;less than desirable torque numbers&#39;

[dickita15]

Andy, and what is the math for the torqeless live axel Rx7.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, and what is the math for the torqeless live axel Rx7. [/b]

At 125whp = 18.24

At 130whp = 17.54

[lateapex911]

LOL...but the RX-7 KILLS all in the torque department! 106 or so WHOPPING footpounds! WhooHoo!


Ok, anyway, Gregs numbers are pretty darn close to process. The issue some have is the dyno used. I know that Jets are reputed to give better numbers than Paks, but I&#39;ve backed to backed them and gotten the same numbers. So my jury is out.

And, I think that we&#39;ve got other issues here....granularity, not to mention this is ONE report from ONE dyno on ONE car. Not exactly a trend here...

[dj10]

Greg&#39;s numbers are ~5hp and ~13lb-ft (at the wheel, of course) higher than what a real damn good Integra would do on a DynaPack. Combine that with the Integra being 80lbs heavier, and it makes you really have to drive the wheels off of it in the corners and utilize that better suspension. Certain tracks with show the strengths of each.

What&#39;s a real good whp number from a CRX on a DynaPack? ~128whp sound about right?

CRX = 17.72lbs/whp - fantastic, insane handleing
Integra = 17.42lbs/whp - pretty damn good handleing
NX = 16.33lbs/whp. - "another damn corner?!" handleing

The handleing helps even them out a bit. I can&#39;t speak for the 240&#39;s or the Miata&#39;s though since I don&#39;t know anything about them. [/b]



Looks like the NX needs some weight or the others need a weight break? :D

[kbrewMR2]

you also cannot judge how fast a car is by peak numbers alone. break out your calculus folks, area under the curve is what makes something fly/not fly

[Andy Bettencourt]

you also cannot judge how fast a car is by peak numbers alone. break out your calculus folks, area under the curve is what makes something fly/not fly [/b]

Trust me when I tell you this - the strength of this motor is NOT the HP.

[kbrewMR2]

well enlighten us then...

[R2 Racing]

you also cannot judge how fast a car is by peak numbers alone. break out your calculus folks, area under the curve is what makes something fly/not fly
[/b]


Trust me when I tell you this - the strength of this motor is NOT the HP.
[/b]
Big, huge, heaping gobs of torque from about 0 to infinity.

[philstireservice]

The best HP numbers I have heard are 185HP for a GSR motor on a DynoJet. This is about the max. My stock motor on a Dynojet is about 165 HP.

If I reference this post the DynoJet over estimate by 13% or the DynaJet is .87 of a DynoJet&#39;s data. If my math is right at 185HP *.87 = 160HP I am also 80 lbs heavier!!

So the way I see it the GSR belongs in ITA!

LOL

:happy204: :happy204:

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...c=10451&hl=dyno (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10451&hl=dyno)
[/b]

Jeremy I know of a GSR ITS motor making more horsepower than what you state..... it&#39;s sitting safe and warm with no car around it though...

[dj10]

Big, huge, heaping gobs of torque from about 0 to infinity. [/b]



As an example, if all the cars were 16:1 hp/wt wouldn&#39;t work, due to the torque differences.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Jeremy I know of a GSR ITS motor making more horsepower than what you state..... it&#39;s sitting safe and warm with no car around it though...
[/b]



How much will it cost me to remove it from the dark safe place?

[kbrewMR2]

with final drive gearing being open, it would seem making torque at higher RPMs (aka horsepower) would be king...?

[lateapex911]

If this were only about top speed...But it&#39;s about pulling out of corners...it&#39;s about getting deep into corners, it&#39;s about carrying speed through corners, it&#39;s about trans ratios, and on and on. Thats why certain cars are strong at certain tracks but junk at others.

[DavidM]

Greg&#39;s numbers are ~5hp and ~13lb-ft (at the wheel, of course) higher than what a real damn good Integra would do on a DynaPack. Combine that with the Integra being 80lbs heavier, and it makes you really have to drive the wheels off of it in the corners and utilize that better suspension. Certain tracks with show the strengths of each.

What&#39;s a real good whp number from a CRX on a DynaPack? ~128whp sound about right?

CRX = 17.72lbs/whp - fantastic, insane handleing
Integra = 17.42lbs/whp - pretty damn good handleing
NX = 16.33lbs/whp. - "another damn corner?!" handleing

The handleing helps even them out a bit. I can&#39;t speak for the 240&#39;s or the Miata&#39;s though since I don&#39;t know anything about them.
[/b]

I think you could swap HP and TQ and you&#39;d have a good 240SX motor. TQ in the 150-155 range and 140-145 HP are pretty good for a 240. The 240 is RWD and maybe has a little better suspension. I&#39;d still like to get rid of those 2 45 lb weights bolted to my passenger floorboard, though.

David

[16v]

ya? well I have 209 wtq from a 1.8 so there! :P

nice numbers Greg

[zracre]

From the data the guy gave me on my USB key:

154.3 hp @ 6200 RPM
143.4 tq @ 4800 RPM

...but someone told me they saw a run at 156.3...

Start the grumbling.
[/b]

nice numbers...now I see why the egg just drove away down the back stretch!

[Conover]

Sweet.

I found a dynapack in NC. Going down to Thomasville to try it out in a few weeks.

The Dynojet I&#39;ve used in the past proved unreliable, differences of 10hp between runs, operator wasn&#39;t much help either. Hopefully the guys at speedwerks will show me the light!

[lateapex911]

Sweet.

I found a dynapack in NC. Going down to Thomasville to try it out in a few weeks.

The Dynojet I&#39;ve used in the past proved unreliable, differences of 10hp between runs, operator wasn&#39;t much help either. Hopefully the guys at speedwerks will show me the light!
[/b]

Thats why these numbers should be taken with a grain of salt too.

(10 hp from run to run is prety useless!)

[JeffYoung]

And I had one tell me my (running) motor was at 18:1 air fuel. Yeah right.

Two observations on this thread:

1. Some motors just take to IT gains unlike others. Mine is one. The 325 is another. The SR whatever looks like it is too.

2. At those numbers, it doesn&#39;t seem all that different from the 240sx, and somewhat ahead (particulary in torque) of the Integra. Hard to quantify the subjective factors, but do they make up the hp deficit for the Integra and the 240?

[Joe Harlan]

Thats why these numbers should be taken with a grain of salt too.

(10 hp from run to run is prety useless!)
[/b]

One thing to check wheen going to a roller type chassis dyno is the tread surface on the dyno roller. We have seen that when inconsistant reading start coming up it has more to do with tire slip than anything. On the Dynapac we found that maintaining constant temps in the heads were very important to the consistancy of the readings there. We normally did 3 pulls on any change and used the 3rd set of numbers as data points.