New Mini in ITB ?

[Aged racer]

Anybody notice the Comp Board Advisory that just came out (March Fastrack) showing the 2002 Mini in ITB ? No details, it must be the base level car. I ran against one in SSC (Nationals a couple years ago) and they handled well but lacked power (also chewed up front tires from lack of camber). They were stout things, though.

Wonder if they would be a decent ITB car ? (especially with the ECU rules changing).

Steve

NEW CAR CLASSIFICATIONS
GT3 – Nissan/Datsun 240-Z / 260-Z / 280-Z
GTL – Nissan 240SX (S13/S14)
SCCA Fastrack News March 2007 Page 13
ITR – BMW 325i/ci E46 (01-02)
ITR – BMW 328i/ci E46 (99-00)

ITB – Mini Cooper (2002)

FP – Volkswagen Jetta (85-92)

[Knestis]

...handled well but lacked power [/b]

Yup - sounds like an ITB car to me. :)

This is going to be another one of those sorry-I-wished-for-it things but I think it would be a great ITB car, and we'd welcome it to the class. I'm funny like that - thinking that more, different cars is always a good thing even if it means more competition...

The Mini actually got discussed here before the proposal went in and I think the consensus was generally positive.

K

[JamesB]

I know been poking around looking for any katrina mini's that might turn into a long term project that eventually replaces the 87 golf.

[lateapex911]

Yea, I am psyched about it! A NEW car in ITB...I mean a CURRENT car! And a cool one at that! We don't get to do THAT every day!

I look forward to the day I see a Mini and an Alfa Spider latebraking each other into Big Bend at Lime Rock!

[nlevine]

I know been poking around looking for any katrina mini's that might turn into a long term project that eventually replaces the 87 golf.
[/b]

Don't discount any ex-National SSC cars, either.. At least they've already got part of an IT cage, usually have a bunch of wheels and tires, and have a logbook (and you may even be able to sell bits of the interior). Teams that just have to stay current sometimes let their old racecars go for relatively short money.

My ITA Z3 started life as an SSB car and became an IT car for less than it would have cost me if I started with a shell..

-noam

[JoshS]

There are probably fewer than 3 SSC normally-aspirated Minis.

I'd call Brad Davis at the Mini dealer in Charleston, SC. He'd know where they are.

[JamesB]

Exactly. I have yet to dig into it, but as I can recall the Mini Cooper in SSC was short lived as soon as the Cooper S was classed. Again its also a long term idea/project. Buy something that runs, might be able to title and in a few years gut it and make it my new race car when I tire of the golf or bend it beyond repair.

[Aged racer]

Josh is right, there were only a handful in SSC. They were just not competitive with the Civic Si's. Brad's first one had to be scrapped thanks to the old DOT, and by then he was into the S. Still, he'd know where a deal may be, and he knows the car well.

I recall that the ECU was a real limiting factor with the motor. Depending on where the Comp Board goes with revised ECU rules it may be easier to get competitive power from it.

Be fun to run something like this. I'd love to have my Protege reclassified to ITB with appropriate ballast.

Steve

[gwalsh]

Most of the SSC Coopers were factory supplied pre-spec cars. They were all recalled and "recycled". With the new MINI out now, prices for the "older" models may actually get reasonable.

[JeffYoung]

Just watched an SSC mini race at the Rock. Appeared to have power equal to ITB cars, handling a bit down of course.

Watch out for this one I think. Could be a great B car.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Just watched an SSC mini race at the Rock. Appeared to have power equal to ITB cars, handling a bit down of course.

Watch out for this one I think. Could be a great B car. [/b]

The problem is Jeff, it is about 95% certain that was a Cooper S. There is almost 50 more stock HP under the hood.

[JeffYoung]

hmmmm....might have been, it did whoosh when it went by. Did they allow the supercharged one in SSC? I just assumed no.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The NA car was first but short lived as the SC car came in and outclassed it. It is what is ruling SSC now.

[JoshS]

Cooper S (supercharged) was moved back to SSB for 2007, where it belongs. Are you sure the one you saw was in SSC?

[gran racing]

There was also a Mini which ran in New England (non S type). I was surprised with how well that thing handled on a stock suspension. Should be a very good car to have. There's still a lot of debate about the power numbers is will make. Some people say it will make nice power, others say it won't be that significant. We'll see.

[Conover]

I think the two minis at the rock were both SSB cars.

I look forward to the ITB version too, and would be very excited to be a part of the build on one. Who's ready? Let's build a Mini! The Katrina car thing is actually a pretty good Idea, start scouring, they might have recycled most of those cars by now though.

[JamesB]

Cameron, I thought the same thing but make a few calls, many of them are stuck on a lot just waiting to go to auction while insurence companies are locked up in legal battles from trying to deny claims left and right.

I really considered dumping my current 2001 jetta on the market and just picking up an early non S mini to replace it and drive till I bend the golf.

[Conover]

I heard some rice boy of america talking about some place down there that had 50 eclipses or something, but do you know of a specific salvage place to call or anything? It might be a good place to look for many different tubs, how many mk3 VW's you think got flooded? Plenty probably. It's perfect really for race car starter you toss out anything that can absorb the stink anyway.
hmm. . .

[JamesB]

Ill e-mail him for a list of known recyclers that frequent the auctions.

[Conover]

Yeah google is worthless, input flood anything and you get
"How to AVIOD flood cars"

oh well. let me know if you come up with something interesting.

[iambhooper]

Since I spent half the SARRC as a Mini Cooper proctologist, I can assure everyone that they were clased in SSB.

From my perspective, I thought they had excellent accelleration, but poor handling and brakes. He left me down the straights, only to be caught under cornering. The car did eat up tires and the brakes were bad. My little old ITC car was all over him until the high speed sections.

Still, they look great and it would be nice to have modern blood in IT.

hoop

[Aged racer]

The two Mini's at the Rock were both the supercharged S models. They ran SSC for a couple of years with extra weight and a restrictor plate. For '07, they were moved back to SSB without ballast or the plate. They are quite fast in a straight line, handle decently but suffer from little camber adjustment. The Rock would not be their best track.

My son Drew split them in the race in our old SSC Protege, which handles very well but is probably down 60HP to a Mini S. We also have the camber issue, to the point where I had him hold it back in the oval because we were wearing the RF so much.

I'd love to have the Protege in ITB- we'd convert in a minute, it's getting boring running alone (plus we could deal with the camber thing...).

Steve

[gran racing]

While camber may be an issue in show room stock, it won't be in improved touring. The ITB car (non-S version) does have nice brakes and handles well comparitively. Take a look at those disk sizes. The one area I'm still not sure of is how well it will respond to an IT engine build. I keep hearing conflicting information which is significantly different.

I will say that overall I am happy to see a new car such as the Mini in ITB.

[RSTPerformance]

While camber may be an issue in show room stock, it won't be in improved touring. The ITB car (non-S version) does have nice brakes and handles well comparitively. Take a look at those disk sizes. The one area I'm still not sure of is how well it will respond to an IT engine build. I keep hearing conflicting information which is significantly different.

I will say that overall I am happy to see a new car such as the Mini in ITB.
[/b]

I wonder if our trailer will fit 3 mini's insteadof 2 Audi's :lol: Wish I had the money to build one. I think it will either be a midpack front runner (fun place to race) or it will be a definate "the car to have" if developed. Eitherway, it would be fun, and at least competitive!!!

Raymond

[philstireservice]

I would love to come back to ITB with a MINI ......hmmmm?? Mr Serra build me that bad boy :023:

[Knestis]

Cameron's been itching to build the Mini, Phil. Just say the word.

K

[gran racing]

I wonder if our trailer will fit 3 mini's insteadof 2 Audi's [/b]

:happy204:

[JoshS]

A Mini is 12' long, so to fit 3, you'd need about 37' on the floor of your trailer. I can do math, I'm just leaving room for a little space between the cars! A 48' gooseneck would probably work well.

[Conover]

Anyone know any more about this classification yet? like, what is the Spec weight going to be?
Is this definite? I guess it is, I hope so. I'd love to see the official spec line on this pup.

[Conover]

OK this answers that question for now, isn't 2500lbs. a little much for a 1.6 in B?

Classify Mini Cooper in ITB.
Add new spec line to ITCS p. 327, Mini Cooper (2002), Engine Type: 4 Cyl SOHC, Bore x
Stroke(mm) / Displ.(cc): 77.0 x 85.8 / 1598, Valves IN & EX(mm): (I)30.3 (E)23.3, Comp. Ratio:
10.6, Wheelbase(inch): 97.1, Wheel Dia.(inch): 15 / 16, Gear Ratios: 3.42, 1.95, 1.33, 1.05,
0.85, Brakes Std.(mm): (F)276 Vented Disc ®239 Solid Disc, Weight(lbs): 2500.

[JamesB]

Depends on the output of the motor.

[Greg Amy]

Depends on the output of the motor.
[/b]
115/110 hp/tq, manufacturer rating.

Isn't that the same as the classified-at-2350-pounds 2-liter 8V Golf III? Wonder why the ITAC put that car at 150 pounds more...MINI twin cams? Golf struts? Seems an awful steep difference...

[gran racing]

I wouldn't compare it to the Golf III (not that I've ever expressed my opinion that it's too light before, LOL). Or if you do, the question needs to be turned around.

For the Mini, I have to imagine one of the reasons for that weight is related to the brake size it has. Those are some large brakes in comparison to others in the class. The stock HP/torque numbers are half bad either. That is a fair weight.

[Greg Amy]

What is a fair car to compare it to, Dave? I hear rumors about a fictitious Honda Prelude (1.8L, 104(?)hp, 2350#) lurking around somewhere in CT (I think they lie) but other than the Volkswagens (2.0L, 115hp, 2350#) and an occasional Volvo (2640#, killer suspension and RWD) there's really nothing else up here running consistently...

[Conover]

Those brakes are about the same as the golf I think.

The mini has mac-struts in the front as well as the golf, but multi-link rear.
It has twin cams, it starts life with a little more squeeze 10.6:1 per the spec line, manufacturer I guess rounds up to 11:1.
at least I think I could probably get a mini down below minimum weight if I started it out the way we did with Pablo, down to the bones then back up, it should be able to come in under 2500 easy, which would be nice, as opposed to the Golf that would only be minimum weight if it had the minimum cage in it and run slap out of fuel. . .

[gran racing]

Actually Greg, I have the '86/'87 Prelude that is a 2.0 L, 110 HP, SOCH, 8.8 compression, shock front & rear struts (which hurts), 207 F & 208 R brakes.

My Koni suspension just arrived, so I'm getting closer. It's interesting that what is keeping me from getting on the track in June just may be darn stock spindles with frozen bolts. I have two sets and have done everything imagineable to get the bolts off. Honda has discontinued them, and junk yards don't have them or at least not apart. Things just keep on piling and at least mentally I've come close to just saying F this on several occasions.

I like the addition of the Mini. I'm not so sure it's a horrible thing that I agree with how it was classed. I guess we all have our "Miatas" right Greg? My biggest complaint about classing is the Golf III and that was done a couple of years ago. :(

[Conover]

Uh, you think the Golf III should be in C? You really can't think it's an A car can you???

MINI?
:026:

[shwah]

I don't know if I would consider it apples to apples to the Golf 3. I think the extra valves, better brakes (+20mm to the Golf 3), better rear suspension, better gearing, better aero are all things that are going for the Mini. However, based on how things are supposed to be working, whatever the weight is was decided by the same process as the other cars, and we should give it a chance.

I don't think this is something that is considered in the process, but the Golf cam makes it pretty much a tractor motor, and I would expect the Mini to be a bit more of a breather. They should drive very differently out of corners and at the end of straights.

I think this can be a competitive car. Time will tell. Someone build one! :026:

[Conover]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/Shiftlink/DSC00302.jpg

[RSTPerformance]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/Shiftlink/DSC00302.jpg
[/b]


Are we building???

[Knestis]

Bwah-hah-haaah!

:happy204:

K

EDIT - and no, I don't know much at all about this. I suspect it's a Conover Motor Sports black ops project.

[Conover]

Well, it's actually Black and silver.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/Shiftlink/sideofminiLarge.jpg

Before we build we must first Un-build!

[RFloyd]

I am SO ready to draft that breadbox!!

uhhh... as soon as I rebuild my wrecked-ass honduh.

Will she be ready for the start of '08?? I'll be back by then.....

:023: for another B car!!

[gran racing]

Rich, what's going on with the CRX?

[jmp]

That new mini's going to need a good header. I just happen to know someone who's been doing a lot of R&D in that particular department!

[Conover]

It looks like there is plenty of room in there for a header, shoot me an email if you got a good header for me, I'd love to try it out.

The goal is to be ready for the February driver's school at Roebling, I'm crossing my fingers, if there is one thing I've learned it's that it's gonna take longer than you want it too. We'll see how it goes!

rest assured I will keep you all updated. ;)

[gran racing]

Go with one of Justin's headers. You will be happy with what he provides ya.

[Conover]

do you put one of those fancy collectors on it?
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/Shiftlink/DSC00228Medium.jpg

[RFloyd]

Rich, what's going on with the CRX?
[/b]

Well, the LF suspension came apart after a trip over the "gator strips" at CMP in April, err, better yet, I think the gator strips pulled something apart / broke something that violently disassembled itself upon hitting the brakes at the end of the front straight going into T1. I went off driver's right just before T1, still full speed (no brakes - brake line ripped away from LF caliper when suspension collapsed), and clipped the first tire wall before center punching the second at I'd guess aroung 70-80 mph. Needless to say, there was a bit of damage. New RF fender, hood, header panel, headlights, bumper and bumper cover, radiator, rad support. Bent the LF shock and trashed the LF wheel when it folded up into the wheel well, so we're completely rebuilding the front suspension and hubs and bearings, as well as the entire braking system.

We'll be back next year!

[iambhooper]

Well, the LF suspension came apart after a trip over the "gator strips" at CMP in April, err, better yet, I think the gator strips pulled something apart / broke something that violently disassembled itself upon hitting the brakes at the end of the front straight going into T1. I went off driver's right just before T1, still full speed (no brakes - brake line ripped away from LF caliper when suspension collapsed), and clipped the first tire wall before center punching the second at I'd guess aroung 70-80 mph. Needless to say, there was a bit of damage. New RF fender, hood, header panel, headlights, bumper and bumper cover, radiator, rad support. Bent the LF shock and trashed the LF wheel when it folded up into the wheel well, so we're completely rebuilding the front suspension and hubs and bearings, as well as the entire braking system.

We'll be back next year!
[/b]


Ouch! That sounds painfull. It also sounds like a lot of work. I tweeked my door, bumper support and hood at VIR in May, and I've spent plenty of time repairing it.

Best of luck!
hoop

[grjones1]

[quote]
Those brakes are about the same as the golf I think.

"The mini has mac-struts in the front as well as the golf, but multi-link rear.
It has twin cams, ..."

I believe the Mini has 16 valves and a single cam (ala" standard original Neon). I know my "S" does.

GRJ