Using parking light location for brake ducts [Archive]

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BudMan

02-20-2007, 10:05 PM

9.1.3. Improved Touring Category Specifications

d. Exposed headlights, parking lights, and side marker lights shall be taped. OEM light assemblies mounted
on or below (but not in) the bumper shall be removed.

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Okay, I know I'm probably going to have to buy another set of lights... but I guess this will be my initiation into the exessiveness of a rule book :D

-- by removing part of the 'lamp cover' on the front and taping the remaining portion, am I failing to meet the "if it doesn't say you can, you can't" clause?

-- If the housing is still being used, but I simply have a brake duct hose attached to the back, does that cause an 'illegal' situation?

-- I can cut holes in the lower splitter assembly, but that seems like an excessively big project compared to this...and I can put the bulb back in.

-- I don't have brake overheating issues to speak of, but I'd like to have this as an option depending upon the track conditions.

Okay - have fun making fun of the newbie building a car to meet ITR specs instead of ITEverything.

Andy Bettencourt

02-21-2007, 12:03 AM

http://www.itrca.com/gallery/2000R/slideshow/MVC-017F---1.jpg

Pulling a random image from the site in your sig...

I am pretty confident the rules read that you need to tape the parking lights. You have no other light assemblies (like driving lights or fog lights) in the lower bumper. Tape the headlights and parking lights. You look to have plenty of room to add brake ducts in that grill opening...

BudMan

02-21-2007, 07:04 AM

I am pretty confident the rules read that you need to tape the parking lights. You have no other light assemblies (like driving lights or fog lights) in the lower bumper. Tape the headlights and parking lights. You look to have plenty of room to add brake ducts in that grill opening...
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Andy - thanks for your input. To make sure I don't do this inappropriately...

http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/BudMan/RaceCar/Splitter/TestFit1.jpg

1) put a duct inside the grill area is okay

2) If I want an external duct, I believe I can cut the holes in the splitter assembly. Would the location marked below be considered 'approved'?

http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/BudMan/RaceCar/Splitter/BrakeDuctLocation.jpg

Andy Bettencourt

02-21-2007, 08:59 AM

The way I read the rule, you can - but you are limited to the 3" (IIRC) diameter spec in the ITCS. And it must ONLY duct to the brakes. No air can get to the engine bay or intake...

BudMan

02-21-2007, 09:52 AM

The way I read the rule, you can - but you are limited to the 3" (IIRC) diameter spec in the ITCS. And it must ONLY duct to the brakes. No air can get to the engine bay or intake...
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Good - it looks like I am starting to learn to read these things the right way ;)

Thanks for your input.

ddewhurst

02-21-2007, 10:09 AM

BudMan, another view of the brake DUCT & brake HOSE GCR-302 item b. rules.

First, lets start with the two parts of the rule a copied below. The words BRAKE DUCTS & HOSE are used within the rules. I doubt the rule writters ment the definition of both words to be equal. I also doubt the rule writters ment to allow folks with no air dam/spoiler to have air intake openings of 5 inches by 7 inches while allowing folks with an air dam/spoiler air intakes holes of ONLY 3 inch diameter.

Second when I look in a vendor catalog for a DUCT I find a plastic thing that is a whole bunch bigger than the 3 inch HOSE that attaches to the DUCT. The DUCT is the thing that attaches to the valance or air dam/spoiler & the HOSE provides a passage for the air from the DUCT to the brake rotor.

Third, yes, I read the GCR Glossary for duct/ducting. "Duct/Ducting - A tube or passage for conveying a material, usually air." The DUCT has a tube for the HOSE to attache to & the HOSE is a tube.

First part of rule:

"Where an air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings may be cut in the front valance to allow the passage of up to a three inch diameter DUCT leading to each front brake/rotor assemble."

POORLY written ruel ^.

My understanding of the first part of the rule is that a person may cut a hole of sufficent size to gain full addvantage of the air inlet size of the 3 inch diameter DUCT.

Second part of rule:

"Where no air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings of a maxium size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches maybe cut in the front valance so that BKAKE DUCTS can be added with a three (3) inch dianeter HOSE leading to each front brake/rotor assembly."

WELL written rule ^. Other than they could clear the rule up a bit by saying, two total openings of which each opening will be a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches bla, bla.

Greg Amy

02-21-2007, 10:16 AM

BudMan, I'm going to give you the 20+ yr view.

That rule has been in there as long as I can remember, quite likely from the beginning of the class in the early 80's (when I was actually involved). Recall that few cars "back then" had integrated bumpers covers; most were steelie or aluminum, protruding bumpers, mounted on collapsible or shock tubes.

The original intent of that rule was likely (I italicize that to head off the arrogant "how do you know that?? Were you there when they were making the rule???) to address such things as foglights mounted underneath the bumper and in the airdam. The purpose was likely (ibid) to remove these glass items from a very vulnerable location.

As such, I suggest that removal of the integrated sidemarker lights is not required nor allowed within the ITCS. I would suggest that to meet the rules you sould simply tape them.

GA

tlyttle43

02-21-2007, 11:26 AM

On the original question. No, you can't use the parking lite holes for brake ducting.

On the wording that ddewhurst discusses, there is a logical explanation for why the rule is written as it is, and it is consistent. Under either the "no airdam" or the "with airdam" scenario, you are allowed to cut a hole in the valance for brake duct hoses of up to 3" diameter. If you have an airdam, you can put a 5x7'' duct (or even larger size if you want) in the airdam itself, then run the 3" hose through the valance itself (the assumption is the airdam will be in front of the valance.) If you don't have an airdam, you get to put the 5x7" (max) duct directly into the valance. The 5x7" duct in the valance must feed a hose no larger than 3". So you are allowed basically the same thing whether you have an airdam or not. The only confusion is in the use of "duct" in the first portion, when it should really be "hose" to be consistent with the second part.

My only problem is the assumption that an airdam will be in front of the valance. On my Nissan, it works best to have a 3" tall chin spoiler on the bottom edge of the valance. The 3" spoiler doesn't leave room to put a duct in the spoiler itself, but because I have an airdam, I can't cut the 5x7 hole for a duct in the valance.

On more thing. Despite a widespread belief that it exists, there is no rule that says you can't run brake duct hoses larger than 3". You can run any size duct hoses you want -- as long as you don't cut a hole in the valance to run them.

Tom Lyttle

ddewhurst

02-21-2007, 02:21 PM

***If you have an airdam, you can put a 5x7'' duct (or even larger size if you want) in the airdam itself, then run the 3" hose through the valance itself (the assumption is the airdam will be in front of the valance.)***

Tom, if the first part of the rule said hose " instead of duct" please help me out because I don't understand your comment ^. Are you saying that a person may cut a 5 x 7 inch hole with your "you can put a 5 x 7 duct in the air dam"? Where is it said in the rules that one may cut a 5 x 7 inch hole in the air dam/spolier using your understanding of the rules?

First part of rule: With the word DUCT changed to HOSE.

"Where an air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings may be cut in the front valance to allow the passage of up to a three inch diameter HOSE leading to each front brake/rotor assemble."

Second part of rule:

"Where no air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings of a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches maybe cut in the front valance so that BRAKE DUCTS can be added with a three (3) inch diameter HOSE leading to each front brake/rotor assembly."

BudMan

02-22-2007, 06:22 AM

Thanks to all who have provided input. I can see I'll have to spend a little more time learning the nuances of this lovely GCR before getting creative on anything else.

Awesome stuff. I can't wait for the season to start.

peace
BudMan :eclipsee_steering:

RacerBill

02-22-2007, 06:48 AM

Second part of rule:

"Where no air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings of a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches maybe cut in the front valance so that BRAKE DUCTS can be added with a three (3) inch diameter HOSE leading to each front brake/rotor assembly."

WELL written rule ^. Other than they could clear the rule up a bit by saying, two total openings of which each opening will be a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches bla, bla.
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IMHO - the rule should read

"Where no air dam/spoiler is used, a total of two <strike>total</strike> openings of a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches <strike>each</strike> may be cut in the front valance so that BRAKE DUCTS can be added with a <strike>three (3) inch diameter </strike> HOSE no larger than three (3) inches in diameter leading to each front brake/rotor assembly."

ITAC - please note. Just an effort to correct 20 year old language.

BudMan

02-22-2007, 08:59 AM

IMHO - the rule should read

"Where no air dam/spoiler is used, a total of two <strike>total</strike> openings of a maximum size of five (5) inches by seven (7) inches <strike>each</strike> may be cut in the front valance so that BRAKE DUCTS can be added with a <strike>three (3) inch diameter </strike> HOSE no larger than three (3) inches in diameter leading to each front brake/rotor assembly."
ITAC - please note. Just an effort to correct 20 year old language.
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While I agree with some different language to clarify such an old rule, I find it interesting that the front parking lights ~3"x5" can't be used (everyone seems to agree here). Afterall, they are integrated into the bumper cover, not the bumper itself (located between headlights and parking lights). FYI - my parking lights are combined with the turn signals.

Intent:: It eliminates potential glass/plastic shards, and I haven't seen anyone using them during a daylight run yet. If it's that dark, I'd turn on the real lights.

Oh well...rules are rules.

tlyttle43

03-01-2007, 01:51 PM

David -

In thinking about this rule, you have to remember that the rule we're discussing is under the "Body" section,of the rules, and relates to under what circumstances you can cut a hole in the valance. The rule is basically, " You can cut two holes to run a pair of 3" hoses." Remember, this rule is designed to limit modifications to the body work, and doesn't cover brake ducts and hoses in general. Brake ducts are mentioned only because they are limited to 3" IF you want to cut holes in the body.

The airdam rule is found elsewhere. There is absolutely no restriction on what size openings you can cut into your air dam. There are essentially no restrictions at all, except as related to overall size (must be above the wheel rims, not backward past the wheel opening, etc.) So you can make your airdam anyway, and with any brake duct holes you want, within the overall restrictions. There is also no pe se limit on brake duct size.

The question becomes, where do you put the hoses from your brake ducts?

You have severall options:
1) Ducts in air dam - a) cut a hole in the valance (limited to 3" hose) or B) run it somewhere else (no lImit)

2) No air dam - a) cut a 5x7 hole in the valance and use a 3" duct or B) put a duct (no size limit) anywhere you can fit one, and run whatever size hose you can fit without cutting into the valance or body work.

3) Airdam with no ducts- ducts anywhere else they will fit, with no hose size limit (unless you run it through the valance, which has a 3" limit.)

Tom Lyttle

ddewhurst

03-01-2007, 06:18 PM

Tom, our rule understanding is very close. The one item I don't totally agree with is that when one has a valance one may cut two 5"x 7" inch holes in the valance & when one has a air dam/spoiler per your understanding of the rules one may cut two of any size hole in the air dam/spoiler. Two rules that aren't equal. :D

tlyttle43

03-06-2007, 10:24 AM

BudMan

03-06-2007, 12:34 PM

David -

The first paragraph in 8.b. (under Body/Structure) which allows an airdam, contains the sentence, "Openings are permitted for the purposes of ducting air to the brakes, cooler, and radiator." Note, there is no restriction on the size, shape, etc. of these openings. As I noted earlier, there are basically no restrictions on airdam design, except for the overall dimensional restrictions. The 5"x7" restriction applies ONLY if you are cutting a hole in the valance and mounting an air inlet for brake ducts directly into the valance (in the "no airdam" case). In the "with airdam" case, you can have whatever size inlet you want in the airdam. The hoses from this inlet can a)(any size) go wherever you can fit them that doesn't require cutting a hole in the valance or b ) (3" maximum) go through a 3" hole in the valance.

I think we'll come to a common understanding eventually!

Tom Lyttle
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Since this subject seems to be gaining life...My argument, while apparently invalid, is that the duct area when using the parking lights is a simple, effective way to add brake cooling while at the same time, eliminate additional glass (actually plastic that would otherwise be taped off) from the car. BTW - I'm in ITR now instead of ITE.

I'll be using these during a couple of HPDEs. At least it was fun getting creative. :happy204:
http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/BudMan/RaceCar/BrakeDucts/BrakeDuct1.jpg
http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/BudMan/RaceCar/BrakeDucts/BrakeDuct2.jpg

When I get the hose delivered, I'll work it through the fog light location of the grill instead. :dead_horse: