To build or to buy

[Bounty Hunter]

I currently have a downed '93 Nissan Sentra SE-R that will need a bottom end rebuild. Right now it was just my fun car. I did some AutoX with it last year and toyed with the idea of doing some HPDEs. I've been following Improved Touring for about 5 yrs now and I keep getting more interested. There are a couple tracks close by (MAM & HPT) and a new one was just built (MPH in Hastings, NE). I've done a handful of HPDEs in the past and I think this is the direction I want to go. I sold my expensive, nice car ('05 STi) so I have a little more $$ in my pocket...but not too much.

My question is should I build the SE-R or look to purchase a complete car instead? My guess is that most of you will tell me to buy an IT car that's ready to race and that makes sense. Give me an idea of how much I would need to spend on a car in each class.

Thanks,
Todd

[gran racing]

Give me an idea of how much I would need to spend on a car in each class. [/b]

Define "need". LOL To have a decent, safe & reliable racecar? To run near the front? Or to have a nationally competitive car?

To buy or to build. There are advantages to both - you just need to determine which one best suits you. Buying an already built car is great. Once you locate the car the meets your needs, you'll be out on the track very quickly. Building a car will take longer, but there are advantages to doing that as well.

[Bounty Hunter]

Define "need". LOL To have a decent, safe & reliable racecar? To run near the front? Or to have a nationally competitive car?

To buy or to build. There are advantages to both - you just need to determine which one best suits you. Buying an already built car is great. Once you locate the car the meets your needs, you'll be out on the track very quickly. Building a car will take longer, but there are advantages to doing that as well.
[/b]

Oh no...just something that will at least finish a race is all I would be interested in. :D I peeked around in the Classifieds. Most of the cars right now are a little out of my price range. I was hoping to spend less than $5-6k on a car.

How many of you made the switch from AutoX to Club Racing? Is this a natural progression? Do we always want more?

[gran racing]

Your budget is reasonable for a built car. Start attending some races and asking around. Look through the classifieds here (and on other forums). If you see a car that is priced too high, it still may be worth contacting the seller and making a much lower offer esp. after it has been a few months and the car is still not sold. I bet some of the cars advertised from early this fall are still for sale and the seller would be willing to take less than they originally hoped for. Word of mouth is often a very good way to locate your new baby. This thread is a great start. :D

Where abouts are you located?

[abreakey]

I say "buy". I have $3400 invested in my mid-rear pack ITA car so far. I bought it as an aged out SSC (National champion) car and have been slowly converting it over to ITA. That $3400 includes the car, a ton of spares, cage modifications, adding the few ITA required items (kill switch, etc) and a set of new tires. I did just what was suggested above; I made a low ball offer on a car that was for sale for months. It is the way to go... unless the building of a car is part of the fun and experience you are looking for. I just wanted to be on the track.

Oh, and I autocross also. I am not sure I would say I am searching for 'more' with club racing, just a different type of competition. Last year I autocrossed 40 weekends!!! This included getting to ProSolo and National Tour events as far away as Denver, Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, Indiana, DC, Florida, etc (I am in NC). I will still keep up a pretty healthy solo schedule, but I will replace a couple of the weekends with some club races - so maybe 30:10 this year. :) Yes, I have the most understanding wife in the world!!!

adamb

[Greg Amy]

My question is should I build the SE-R or look to purchase a complete car instead?[/b]
"Buy", of course will be cheaper. However, if you are stuck on driving the SE-R, you may be forced to "build"; there are not many SE-Rs out there to buy already prepped.

That said, here's a nice NX2000 race-ready, that can be made IT-legal with minimum changes. He's asking $5900 for it, but you've got more than $500 in IT-illegal parts that you can swap out and resell:

http://www.project-seven.goof.com/93_nx_2000.htm

I am familiar with the owner and I highly recommend it; you cannot build this car for that price, and after IT-prep this car can be a winner. - GA

On edit: There is more than $500 in re-sellable items on this car, especially if you keep your SE-R for parts (you should). The following items will bring good money on SR20DE forum:
- JWT S5 cams (139 hp at wheels before cams installed…see pics for dyno plot)
- Fidanza lightweight flywheel
- Lightweight battery
- Energy Suspension shifter bushings
- JWT engine mounts
- Fastbrakes 11” Wildwood kit
- New Performance Friction PF97 pads and new rotors with one event
- Speed Bleaders all around (technically not legal, but I can't IMAGINE anyone caring.)
- Spare brake rotors and pads

You'll need to find some NX brakes to install (different than the SE-R) but all otehr parts can come off your Classic. You'll also need to weld in one door bar on the passenger side to justify the door gutting, but everything else is bolt-on.

WELL worth the money.

[abreakey]

Thats funny Greg -- I was just coming back here to post a link to that same car. :)

adamb

[JamesB]

I bought my car for 2500, it has probably 9k in development into it. some cage work that made it 06/07 legal and a motor and I was racing. (900 total spent on that.) I did do a few things I didnt need (easier to read gauges, some minor rewiring.) And some stuff the car needed like oil cooler, better alignment and stuff. In the end probably spend about 5k. When I priced out what it would take for me to build that same car I was around 14k in costs and that included me doign most of the labor.

[JLawton]

My question is should I build the SE-R or look to purchase a complete car instead?
[/b]

Duh!! I can't believe you're asking that!! :D

1st: Do a search on this topic. There are pages and pages of arguments.
2nd: Buy Dave's book.
3rd: Get rid of the SE-R. (another :D )
4th: Go buy a race car.


Even when you get it up to IT standards, there will be a lot of developement time. Plus, good parts ain't easy to find........

[dickita15]

buy first car
build second car

[erlrich]

My question is should I build the SE-R or look to purchase a complete car instead? My guess is that most of you will tell me to buy an IT car that's ready to race and that makes sense. Give me an idea of how much I would need to spend on a car in each class.

Thanks,
Todd [/b] Todd, as someone who decided to go the build-it route with my first (and only) car, here are my thoughts - if you can answer yes to ALL of the following, you will probably be a candidate for building your own car:

1. Do you absolutely LOVE working on cars (not just like, but really love)?

2. Do you have the skills to do everything you're not prepared to pay someone else to do (which in this case should be almost everthing)?

3. Do you not care how long it takes to get the car on the track (it WILL take longer than you think, by at least 2X)?

4. Are you willing to spend a season or two (or more) being a mid-pack car while you get the car (and driver) up to speed?

5. Do you have the commitment and patience to finish a long-term project that WILL try your patience many time over?

6. Are you ok with the fact that in the end you will have spent 2X what the car is worth?

If you answered yes to all of the above questions, then you should consider building IMHO. Otherwise, I would suggest you start looking through the classified ads. If you do decide to build however, what you will ultimately get out of the deal is the satisfaction of knowing your car better than most of the guys in the paddock. You will also have many little personal victories along the way, like when the car gets through tech on the very first try, or one of your competitors stops by and comments on how nice the car looks. For me, building the first one was a great experience - now for the next one...what was bimmerworld's number again? :D

[JamesB]

Hey earl. you know I bought my car and I still get that same fuzzy feeling when the car does well or is complimented. You just have to be happy with what you bought and it will go a long way. But even with a bougth car you are going to get your patience tested. I went through some issues my first season, but I kept a chin up about it. Now this season all I have to do is freshen up my motor and im ready to go.

[erlrich]

Hey earl. you know I bought my car and I still get that same fuzzy feeling when the car does well or is complimented. You just have to be happy with what you bought and it will go a long way. But even with a bougth car you are going to get your patience tested. I went through some issues my first season, but I kept a chin up about it. Now this season all I have to do is freshen up my motor and im ready to go. [/b] James - good points, and yes I know your resolve will be tested regardless; seeing what you (and Gregg even more so) had to go through last year was proof of that. I guess the big difference I see is that with building your own car that resolve is put to the test long before you ever turn your first wheel at driver's school :)

[JamesB]

All too true!! But then I enjoy building cars. I helped a friend build a car from a stripped shell to fully ready to race in 28 days. I did the same with his rabbit a year earlier for the street (100% resoration.)

Right now im well motivated, my motor is out, its apart and parts are ordered. Now im handling all the other car work I have on the todo list.

[JLawton]

Todd, as someone who decided to go the build-it route with my first (and only) car, here are my thoughts - if you can answer yes to ALL of the following, you will probably be a candidate for building your own car:

1. Do you absolutely LOVE working on cars (not just like, but really love)?

2. Do you have the skills to do everything you're not prepared to pay someone else to do (which in this case should be almost everthing)?

3. Do you not care how long it takes to get the car on the track (it WILL take longer than you think, by at least 2X)?

4. Are you willing to spend a season or two (or more) being a mid-pack car while you get the car (and driver) up to speed?

5. Do you have the commitment and patience to finish a long-term project that WILL try your patience many time over?

6. Are you ok with the fact that in the end you will have spent 2X what the car is worth?

[/b]


Well said!! :023:

[Bounty Hunter]

Thanks for all the replies. This forum wants to talk a lot more about racing than SR20forum. :lol:

I'll definitely pick up the book and go from there. It sounds like I'll be looking at purchasing a car rather than building. :birra:

[JamesB]

Todd thats all we argu....er talk about here is racing and sometimes non racing stuff. Usually racing and IT rules though.

[Bounty Hunter]

I just ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it cover to cover. I also posted on my local SCCA forum in hopes that someone will show me around more on race day at MAM.

[CaptainWho]

I also posted on my local SCCA forum in hopes that someone will show me around more on race day at MAM.
[/b]

If you get down to the southeast, drop us a line. We might be working corners or doing the photography or racing, you just never know. :D

[Bounty Hunter]

For the time being I've decided to fix my SE-R, do some HPDE track days and continue to AutoX. I'll revisit purchasing a built car next year or possibly the year after. I appreciate all the help. Seems like a good group of people you've got here.

I'm sure once I read the book it'll help me figure more things out. :birra:

[tnord]

Todd -

feel free to PM me if you need help with anything. i've been running around in MiDiv for a little over 3 years now, and i'm at pretty much every single MAM and HPT event. i also plan on coming out to MPH this fall.

i built my first car because at the time, you could build a SM cheaper than you could buy one, but that is FAR from the truth now. anyway, i made A LOT of mistakes in my initial build, of which i'm still fixing to this day. it's been expensive to go through the learning process of who to buy parts from, what setup works, what maintenance items to pay attention to, etc etc. in short, i'm getting close to having 2x invested in the car compared to what it's worth.

you should come down to HPT when they have the PDX to get yourself on track and get a feel for what a race weekend is like. as i said, feel free to PM me if you need anything.