I thought these guys were out of business!!!

[rabbidmk1]

So I am debating on having these guys build my IT engine!!!


http://www.bertilsengines.com/images/prod09.jpg

[racer_tim]

Here are a couple of places I'd also check out:

http://www.porttuning.com/home.php , Jose did Chuck Mathis's GP winning 1.6 VW Rabbit in 2006

Dick Shine has a good reputation
http://www.srsvw.com/

So does Bill Sulouff
http://www.bildon.com/

BSI is still in business, but not sure if they have completely gone over to the dark side, with only doing Spec Miata stuff, http://www.bsiracing.com/

I'm not sure if Techtonics actually builds motors, but I know they have lots of parts

http://techtonicstuning.com/

So, depending on where you are, there are some choices other than Bertils. But they (Bertils) are very well respected in the VW racing world.

[JimLill]

Bildon has used:

http://www.interpreptuning.com/

[JLawton]

So I am debating on having these guys build my IT engine!!!
http://www.bertilsengines.com/images/prod09.jpg
[/b]


Where do you live?

[shwah]

Here are a couple of places I'd also check out:

http://www.porttuning.com/home.php , Jose did Chuck Mathis's GP winning 1.6 VW Rabbit in 2006

[/b]

Jose did the headwork on Chuck's 1.5. AMT in St. Louis did a lot of the motor, and he did a lot of it himself. That is where my motor is sitting right now :026:

[rabbidmk1]

I live in Minnesota, so Bertils is within reason of me taking a long weekend and picking it up...

As far as the rest of the shops.

Bildon is awsome! I have ton of their parts on my car!

Techtonics is awsome too. I actually am a dealer for their parts. Colin spent 45 min discussing how we wanted to burn my chip for the race car!

Stu and Darleen at BSI are also very knowledgable and helpful, but like everyone said they are into their Miatas now. :(
(I am sure they will do great at that...)


And I will NEVER do any business with DICK SHINE.... I think he is an ASSH*LE. I have a bad taste of his business from a few online forum experiences I have had... But I am not starting any drama. That is just my opinion.


But all in all I am capable of building the car myself, I just think Bertils know a whole lot more then me!

[JamesB]

thats ok, Dick lives up to his name when you talk about suspension tuning on the forums. but really I cannot complain at all about his company quality, resources or customer service.

You just have to take his replies for what they are, his opinion and he is an opinionated man.

[Drew Aldred]

A shout out for the guys who help me out on my HP Scirocco: http://www.speedperformanceresearch.com
Great guys who race VWs off-road and actually give you a QUOTE on work to be done.

Whoever you choose, make sure they understand the rules for your particular class.

[Knestis]

We just did a leakdown and compression test on MkIII 2.0 that Cameron built for me and are VERY pleased with the results, after 40+ hours of beating the crap out of it. It's now broken in. :)

K

[Bildon]

>> It's now broken in.

Race engines need no break in. :biggrinsanta: Discuss!

>> So I am debating on having these guys build my IT engine!!!

Bring a big checkbook :P

[Knestis]

Oh, I know that, Bill. It's one of those euphamism thingies. :)

K

[rabbidmk1]

Bring a big checkbook :P
[/b]

After a little research it looks like about $9000 for an IT engine. About 18k for a dry sump'd prod engine... I am going to hold out untill I get the car into prod. in the next few years.


Aaron

[JLawton]

I think he is an ASSH*LE. I have a bad taste of his business from a few online forum experiences I have had... [/b]


He's not an ass hole, he's just a crusty old New Englander :lol: .......And really knows his stuff.

Fortunately, there are plenty of reputable VW builders out there.

I can vouch for Cameron's engines. They ROCK!! :023: How many enduros between the two cars and NO engine failures!!

[jlinfert]

David Boles at Atlantic Auto Works also does VERY nice VW engines, both IT and Prod. He does gearboxes as well.

[Drew Aldred]

+1 for David Boles at Atlantic Auto Works. Great guy, excellent work, and will help you with any questions you have about anything !!!

[Bildon]

>> $9000

Oh my.. I had no idea he had gone that crazy. ~$2500 will buy you a perfect IT motor.

[Bill Miller]

After a little research it looks like about $9000 for an IT engine. About 18k for a dry sump'd prod engine... I am going to hold out untill I get the car into prod. in the next few years.
Aaron
[/b]

Not for nothing, but $9k for an ITB 1.8 VW motor? There&#39;s nothing in there that&#39;s worth that kind of money, I don&#39;t care what shop it comes out of. As Bill said, you can got a top-flight one for < 1/3 of that. And that&#39;s w/ a .040 over-bore and new forged pistons. You can&#39;t do that much to them for there to be that much money in them.

That all being said, I&#39;ve crewed for Kirk&#39;s car for a couple of years now, and there has NEVER been an issue w/ the motor (knock wood). Cameron builds some good stuff!

[Daryl DeArman]

It isn&#39;t that there is $9K worth of parts in the thing. It would make sense to me if there is a line of vintage guys getting their atlantic and Super Vee motors done that are paying more than $9K.

Take my Honda Civic daily driver to Ferarri of Beverly Hills to get an oil change and I&#39;d probably have to pay much more for that "$40 oil change"-regardless of how much the oil and filter really cost.

[loopracing]

It isn&#39;t that there is $9K worth of parts in the thing. It would make sense to me if there is a line of vintage guys getting their atlantic and Super Vee motors done that are paying more than $9K.
[/b]

True, but there is a lot of labor involved, fitting +.040 pistons and honing. Truing up the journals and rod prep and balancing. Crank/rod/piston balancing. Head flowing, valve guide sizing and valve grinding. Where do you stop?
BTW, there IS a line of vintage and F/C guys paying more than $9K. Saw a fresh 2.0 xflow drysump on Ebay , guy wanted $20 large.

[keycom]

We just did a leakdown and compression test on MkIII 2.0 that Cameron built for me and are VERY pleased with the results, after 40+ hours of beating the crap out of it. It&#39;s now broken in. :)

K
[/b]



Sorry for the newb question, but who and where is "Cameron".

[acuracer]

Building a VW motor for IT .Call David Leira in Miami at Leiras Automotive. His results and reliability for the past 15 years are outstanding.

[JamesB]

Cameron Conover, Dr. K&#39;s engine guru.

[rabbidmk1]

Honestly, I have no interest in going to any other shop to get an engine built then Bertils, that is if I dont do it myself... Not that I dont trust everyone&#39;s advice (thank you BTW...) but it is because I am only a few hour drive from his shop, and I can talk to them in person at the shop.



:D

[Bildon]

>> true, but there is a lot of labor involved

OK we have nothing to hide since we&#39;re about to post all this info on our website soon....

Disassemble, cleaning, remove and replace various oil plugs and studs, valve job, set valve spring heights and pressures, resurface head, assembly ~$345.00
Resurface head (+ .5 compression) ~$60
Match porting and 1" (IT) intake porting. ~$120
Remove and replace valve guides if needed ~$90.00
Shipping charges to/from Bildon Motorsport - TBD

Of course parts (if needed) are extra.

This is approx. what you&#39;ll pay for an IT head from us. Info for you to chew on.

The bottom end follows the same format... still even if you came to us and said I want 1mm over and every tiny nut and bolt balanced and every hole radiused and part blueprinted you are not going to pay much more for a full on ARRC motor.

If you had us fabricate you an oil cooler system and build a custom oil pan it could go up another $1000 if you really tried to find things to spend money on. But the big bucks are in porting, light valve train and light forged internals... none of which can be on your IT motor.

>> Head flowing
:blink: ?

[Knestis]

...and the lifespan of the Bertils SuperVee engine we had in our Ralt was measured in minutes, not hours. Well, hours - but not very many of them. And the crank was considered a service part - replace with the rebuild. Whee!

K

[Bill Miller]

...and the lifespan of the Bertils SuperVee engine we had in our Ralt was measured in minutes, not hours. Well, hours - but not very many of them. And the crank was considered a service part - replace with the rebuild. Whee!

K
[/b]

:blink: :blink: :blink:

Nobody is going to stop you for spending more money than you have to. However, for the money you&#39;ll save, you could fly to just about any other engine builder&#39;s shop, anywhere in the country.

[rabbidmk1]

So I decided to save a bit of $$$ and do it myself.!!! Woo. Elbows deep cleaning the cylinders!

[JamesB]

Its not all that hard. Of course its interesting to buy a motor off someone that is supposed to be .020 over but when you check the bore with a caliper its still stock 81mm

[Conover]

ABA 0.040" over should end up 83.5mm.

[JamesB]

Cam but im rebuilding a RD engine code. 81mm is stock bore.

[lateapex911]

Its not all that hard. Of course its interesting to buy a motor off someone that is supposed to be .020 over but when you check the bore with a caliper its still stock 81mm [/b]

Hey, look at it this way. He said it was 20 over, and it&#39;s not....but it isn&#39;t illegal either! (Thats a far more common "discovery")

[Conover]

Oh, somebody is building a Mk3 I thought we were talking about that for some reason, oops.
Wouldn&#39;t it be nice to have 92.8mmx83.5mm? maybe the contingency will encourage some more MK3&#39;s and so On. :026:

[JamesB]

Jake, I was not worried about illegal. But a friend reminded me that my caliper could be off since its an analog. He is lending me his digital so I can double check the bore size.

Cam - yeah, I wouldn&#39;t mind it, but you know what I already have an mk2 thats racable and it just doesnt make sense to build an mk3 right now.

[JamesB]

Turns out having the correct resolution caliper is all you need. Borrowed my friends digial good to .01mm and yeap bores are 81.5x on all 4 cyl No variances out of .02mm on any 8 point cross hatch measurement pattern.

[Conover]

Good deal. :D

[JamesB]

Just one more tool I need to remember who I can borrow it from.

Anyway, getting my parts ordered today, at this rate I could have the motor sealed up in early march and ready to be broken in at the 3/31 PDX.

[rabbidmk1]

Anyway, getting my parts ordered today, at this rate I could have the motor sealed up in early march and ready to be broken in at the 3/31 PDX.
[/b]


LUCKY... I have to wait until April 28-29th before there are any races in the midwest.....

[JamesB]

Oh no my first race weekend is 4/27-28/07, but we have a PDX that I plan to instruct in on 3/31 which is perfect to break in the motor since I don&#39;t need to push the car that hard.

[Nomex95]

Where is Dr. K located?
Thanks,
Charlie

[JamesB]

Actually if your looking for motor work talk to Conover.

[JLawton]

www.raceconover.com

[Nomex95]

I was just curious because there is a Dr. K in Beacon, NY and didn&#39;t know if it was the same man.

[Knestis]

I blame Scott Giles for the "Dr. K" moniker - that&#39;s me - http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti/

Cameron Conover is the guy whose work makes me look, well...competent anyway - http://www.raceconover.com/

K

[JamesB]

Nope, Scott started it and I can never spell his screen name correctly so I use it as well.

[Bill Miller]

And it might have had a little to do w/ the fact that he got his PhD a couple of years ago. ;)