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Greg Amy
01-29-2007, 12:16 PM
A fellow NX2000 driver asked me a question in regards to what to do with glass t-tops (which NX2000s have). That's a fine question. The rules are not particularly clear on the matter:

Convertible tops and attaching hardware shall be completely removed. Note: Convertible model cars are permitted if they were only available as convertibles (e.g. MG Midget), or if the convertible model is specifically allowed on the vehicle spec line. Manual and electric sunroofs, original or aftermarket, where the panel is not normally removable shall be retained and run in the closed position. Components (motors, cables, rails) may be removed provided the panel is securely retained. Removable sunroof or T-top may be retained if bolted or welded in, or removed completely. Glass sunroofs must be removed. All sunroofs may be replaced with panel or replacement skin of the same material as the original surrounding roof material.

These are somewhat contradictory: it says that t-tops may be bolted in (or removed), but it also says glass sunroofs must be removed (with no such requirement for glass t-tops). The NX2000 does not have a "sunroof" but the purpose of mandating the removal of glass sunroofs is to avoid shattered glass on the track in case of an incident. Further, glass provide absolutely ZERO protection in a rollover incident.

To make matter more confusing, the rules allow replacing glass sunroofs with steel, but not glass t-tops.

So, what does one do?

Literally to the rules, you have to bolt in the t-tops or remove them, at your option. However, this does not address the issue of glass. As a tech inspector, I think that I would insist that someone with a car with glass t-tops remove them entirely, and as a result of having an open top car will have to use arm restraints. This, I think, is a appealable issue, but I also suggest that upon review any Chief Steward will tend to the most-safe position, that being their removal. Then, the competitor can appeal to Topeka for a final ruling.

An alternative - not specifically allowed - is to completely tape over the glass with a thick Mylar such that a rollover won't cause the glass to spread out, but the thought of having broken glass 5 inches from my face is not particularly appealing. Thus, as a tech inspector I would not agree to that.

Finally, I can find nothing in the rules that allows the glass in the t-tops to be replaced with appropriate steel, and then the assembly bolted in. But, I suspect this is something that could be allowed on appeal via Errors and Omissions.

Bottom line: there is no clear answer. I suggest this is a good question to pass along to the ITAC and CRB for clarification and guidance... - GA

lateapex911
01-29-2007, 12:47 PM
Bottom line: there is no clear answer. I suggest this is a good question to pass along to the ITAC and CRB for clarification and guidance... - GA [/b]
Agreed..write us the letter! ;)

Just for giigles what do you think it SHOULD say?

In thinking this over I had an immediate answer but there are one or two little issues...

RacerBill
01-29-2007, 12:53 PM
How does this sound?

Glass sunroofs and t-tops must be removed. All sunroofs and t-tops may be replaced with panel or replacement skin of the same material as the original surrounding roof material and securely fastened to the surrounding area.

Greg Amy
01-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah Jake, I like Bill's suggestion. I see no reason that t-tops should be handled differently than sunroofs.

The only issue I can imagine is one of safety and structural integrity. Whereas the NX2000 has a central longitudinal roof section between the two panels, some cars do not; the latter is technically called a "targa" top. If the ITAC and/or CRB believe that targa tops should be handled as convertibles, then you could add the words "and targa tops" to the section on convertibles...

Any other thoughts? I'll write something up once I get more input from here and send it via email. - GA

RSTPerformance
01-29-2007, 01:05 PM
:023:

zracre
01-29-2007, 02:13 PM
I thought the NX came as a hardtop at one time? If so just make a solid roof with same guage material. I guess it would get complex in assembly but a sawzall goes a long way in a junk yard!

lateapex911
01-29-2007, 02:46 PM
well, I thought about making T tops match the sunroof requrement in the rules, but I was unsure how to handle the exposed edge. It's not like we can just pop rivet sheetmetal in there...and the raw edge could pose a safety issue.

How to writ a rule to handle that was my sticking point....

dj10
01-29-2007, 02:53 PM
How does this sound?

Glass sunroofs and t-tops must be removed. All sunroofs and t-tops may be replaced with panel or replacement skin of the same material as the original surrounding roof material and securely fastened to the surrounding area.
[/b]

Excellent! :023:

Greg Amy
01-29-2007, 03:09 PM
Evan, hardtop NX2000 are extremely rare. Very few came into this country (fortunately, I have one), and many of them were turned into race cars. It would be highly unusual for you to A) see an NX2000, and B) see one with a hard top. The NX1600, on the other hand, pretty much all came with hard tops, so I suppose you could graft one of those onto a 2k, if you can find one (or use the NX1600 - the same exact chassis - as a donor for the ITA car, and swap out all the parts...read: VIN requirement argument redux...)

Given the amount of work required to graft on a roof, I can't see the average racer being up to the task. Hell, even *I* would sub that out to someone.

Jake, in the case of the NX, the glass sits in a curved frame with metal edges all around. The left- and right-outer parts are made of a heavy structure, to which that glass frame bolts and the locking mechanisms attach. As I sit here thinking about it, I can't recall another t-top car that has a design significantly different from that, therefore replacing the glass with steel would not present any safety hazards.

lateapex911
01-29-2007, 03:32 PM
So, if I read the suggested rule, I'd remove the whole shooting match, and have a U shaped opening in my roof, and then skin the opening with sheetmetal, leaving an exposed edge..

But you're saying use the metal frame the t-top is composed of, but replace the glass with metal, then bolt that into the opening??

Or maybe I'm just really confused.!

Greg Amy
01-29-2007, 03:38 PM
But you're saying use the metal frame the t-top is composed of, but replace the glass with metal, then bolt that into the opening??[/b]

That's what *I* would do, but I can see how the rule does not specifically restrict it to that, and I can certainly understand your concern about the exposed edge(s).

Is this is safety issue that must be specifically addressed, or should it be left to the tech inspectors? I personally would not allow a car to compete with sharp exposed edges like that, unless the fabricator has taken care to protect it...


(Unrelated P.S.: Read that rule again, specifically "Manual and electric sunroofs, original or aftermarket, where the panel is not normally removable shall be retained and run in the closed position." How many non-removable-sunroof panels out there do we see removed and replaced with stock sheet metal...?)

zracre
01-29-2007, 05:27 PM
[quote]

most of them!! I got lucky with a non sunroof car...couldn't you hack a $200 Sentra for the roof panel?

DavidM
01-31-2007, 06:16 PM
Guys building a 300ZX for ITR would probably like a clarification on the issue. Those hardtops are rare indeed.

David

MMiskoe
02-03-2007, 09:20 PM
At the risk of causing myself trouble I'll tell you what I did on my 300zx w/ t-tops.

I removed all the mounting & gasketing stuff from the opening. Welded in a panel to fill the opening and (sort of) bondo'd the joint to fair it in. This took care of 3 out of 4 sides. Then on the outside edge where the window goes up to I took the gasket & its associated rail from the glass t-top and welded a clip on my infill panel to bolt it to. This is a car w/o a frame around the top of the door glass.

The car got a log book and has never had a second look by any tech even though you don't have to look too hard to see what's been done.

I guess I'm curious what people think about this. (and hope they like it, I've got no intentions of changing it now)

Matt

jhooten
02-04-2007, 12:01 PM
Simple solution, Leave the t-tops in the paddock and put on a set of arm restraints.