H&N Restraints and Endurance Racing

[Matt Rowe]

So I am sitting here watching Speed TV's in depth review of just how easy it was for Jeff Gordon's Hans device to be rendered useless when climbing into the car. It's a good thing that the car had an in car camera focused on him to show the crew and the officials the belt was UNDER the Hans and not over it. I have only run one enduro and that was before last season when I purchased an Isaac device but I'm wondering what people's experiences are in enduro's?

What device are you using?
Do you have someone helping to strap you in?
Is there someone visually checking to see if everything is properly set?
Have you ever fond yourself out on track and realized your HNR of choice wasn't properly set?

I know that for the team I work with for enduros we have one person focused on getting our driver strapped in and I am on the other side of the car as a second set of eyes before the car leaves. But I also can't remember making sure the Hans was properly strapped in for the drivers that use it. Looks like I know one more thing I will be checking next year. It does appear that the R3 would have an advantage over the Hans and Isaac in this case, provided it doesn't make it harder to hop in and out of the car. But didn't I hear the R3 was being de-SFI'd.

[Kolin Aspegren]

Matt you've been on the best team in the club. We have a dedicated crew member who's only
duty is to help the driver with the belts/radio/window net.

What happened to little Gordon was the crew members mistake. Speed should have shown
Gordon fumble with the belt when he fixed it at speed.

Kolin

[erlrich]

Matt - my first thought when I saw that was "there's one more reason I'm glad I have an ISAAC", but after giving it some more thought I think that was more a case of someone on the crew dropping the ball. Hell, I crewed for a team at the 12-hour race at Summit last year, and even our little thrown-together crew knew to have one guy dedicated to assisting the driver (in addition to the exiting driver). The one thing I have to wonder, and you Hans guys could probably answer this, is wouldn't the driver have known that the device wasn't properly secured? I would have to think there would be an entirely different feel between just a belt over your shoulder and the Hans under the belt.

As far as other devices, it would seem to me that the ISAAC wouldn't be that bad, as long as all the drivers were set up for it, and you had a helper to hook it up. I hope to get the chance to find out first hand this summer.

[Knestis]

I personally use an Isaac, with the "enduro-spec" push-pull release pins on a single lanyard. We use a crew member we call the "diver," whose sole responsibility is to get the driver strapped in. We've had mulitple drivers share the Isaac (a nice feature, since the expensive bits stay in the car) and one use the Wright Device. Regardless, it takes only seconds to pin the Isaac on stops and, so far as I know, we've never had a problem in all of the 12- and 13-hour enduros we've done.

K

[Matt Rowe]

Kolin, I know I'm fortunate to be working with one of the best "amateur" teams and yes I'm comfortable trusting my belts and my safety to Karl when climbing in. But as part of working with the team I pay a lot of attention to what other teams are doing and not everyone has somebody working with and checking the driver before they head out. At best it seems like 2/3. Also, I've never stood in the pits at a pro endurance race but the TV coverage doesn't seem to catch the pro teams consistently having someone helping the driver.

My only concern with my Issac in that situation is not getting the pin fully engaged. A visual check from the crew would see this but I can't check it except by feel, and I wouldn't want to try and align one of those pins while out on course. I haven't worn a Hans so I don't know if you would feel the difference, but I do know the first couple laps after hopping in can be quite busy. You may notice after a couple laps and be able to get it fixed, but how many times have cold tires, or getting use to dark or a oil slick caught someone out in the first lap or two mid race?

[JLawton]

My only concern with my Issac in that situation is not getting the pin fully engaged. A visual check from the crew would see this but I can't check it except by feel, and I wouldn't want to try and align one of those pins while out on course.[/b]

With the Isac, the pin is either in, or out. Very easy to tell when the drivers head is moving a little whether you have the pin lined up and all the way in......or not. Plus, as the driver, you would feel the un-even tension on the side of your helmet

If you do go out on course with it out, I would say it's impossible to get the pin in by yourself. I pin myself up during sprint races and I need both hands and look in the mirror ro get the pins lined up.

[Darren]

FWIW, when running endurance races, I have always had driver out assist driver in. This allows someone who knows what has to be connected (harness, safety device, net, cooling & communication hook-ups, etc.) to work w/the driver; can easily double check whatever the driver has done; & he/she can communicate to the next driver what the current car & track conditions are. Plus, the 'new' driver can be advised of who to trust (& avoid) on the track at that time.

Question to ISAAC users ... How easy does the helmet pin come out w/driving gloves on? The little ISAAC promo film makes it look easy w/fingers, but, in an emergency situation, that is not real world.

[Matt Rowe]

J, we installing the pins on the false grid I've had them slide only halfway in and then catch on thethe far leg of the mount bracket. Yes, a simple visual or a quick feel (even through gloved hands) tells me they aren't fuly engaged but in the heat of a pit stop I can see it being missed.

There are a couple style's of pins to spend installation/removal and I do have the cheaper ones. But even with gloved hands I've never had a issue pulling them. Of course I also practiced getting out quickly when I first got them and periodically since then.

[AntonioGG]

I wear a HANS in enduros. My shoulder harness was adjusted in such a way that if I don't have the HANS in I will never be able to tighten it. I don't leave the pits without tightening the belts. My routine is to buckle the lap belt, tighten it, buckle the shoulder harness at max extension, run my thumb under the harness to lift over the HANS and tighten it. It's second nature for me. My co-driver helps with the lap belts and radio, I take care of the shoulder.

I watched Jeff Gordon's problem. I agree that this was a deal where a driver is not used to enduros and is used to getting help getting buckled in and the crew dropped the ball.

I'm curious about how the ISAAC works in an enduro if you have some guys using and some not using it. Is it easy to remove the bits that are attached to the harness?

[lateapex911]

I have the Isaac, and I'm mostly a one man band. From outside the car to fully buckled, helmet on, gloves on, net up, and Isaac in takes me less than 2 minutes. I have very little trouble with the pins, and they have a very easy to feel "bottoming" sensation when they are all the way in.

I use the upgraded push pulls, and never have a hitch getting them out with gloves on. We're talking under three seconds max.

[gsbaker]

Huh? What happened? I take it the belt was underneath and he had to reposition it while driving. Is this when he hit the guardrail leaving the pits?

That's what I get for being at the track. ;)

[Roy Dean]

I fail to see a difference with any of the devices.... You have to physically attach them to your helmet. You have to physically attach them to the car (HANS positioned between the belt and the driver, Issac on the belt, etc). Seems to me that a moron can screw up any H&N during any event (enduro, sprint, qualifing, etc.).

And I don't blame a crewmember..... I blame the driver. Gordon knows how that HANS works, and he should've checked it before he left his pit stall. If I get hurt driving a racecar, I sure hope nobody blames any other person than myself.

[Matt Rowe]

Greg, yeah the belt slid under the Hans. But no, it had nothing to do with Gordon hitting the wall.

[Daryl DeArman]

If I get hurt driving a racecar, I sure hope nobody blames any other person than myself.
[/b]

If you were only in the majority. <_<



How easy does the helmet pin come out w/driving gloves on? The little ISAAC promo film makes it look easy w/fingers, but, in an emergency situation, that is not real world.
[/b]

You can disconnect the pins quite easily with gloves on. Not a problem at all.

I can not easily put the pins on with gloves and arm restraints...so if flying solo I have a routine:

1) loosely belt up
2) balaclava and helmet
3) helmet chin strap--so I don&#39;t forget
4) ISAAC mounts
5) sinch the crap out of the belts
6) put on arm restraints
7) gloves
8) re-sinch the belts before heading out of pit

[Knestis]

We have left the Isaac installed when Greg was in the car with his Wright Device but Bowie Gray&#39;s guys had to pull theirs out, whens someone got in with a Hans, I think.

You&#39;ve reminded me that I need to get in touch with my new codrivers and find out what they use.

K

[MMiskoe]

With the &#39;out driver&#39; and a right side assistant getting the &#39;in driver&#39; in, there is no problem. The &#39;in driver&#39;&#39;s only job is to keep their hands out of the way and do a radio check once they&#39;re plugged in.


The one thing I have to wonder, and you Hans guys could probably answer this, is wouldn&#39;t the driver have known that the device wasn&#39;t properly secured? I would have to think there would be an entirely different feel between just a belt over your shoulder and the Hans under the belt. [/b]

With everything going on & the desire to get out on track, it is easy to miss. Once, without a helper on the right, I went out w/ out one of the cam lock tabs in place. I just kept tugging at the adjustor to get it tight and by about turn 6 at Summit found that I had 2 feet of free length & the tab up at the adjustor. Lucky for me they did a black flag all on the next lap so I was able to steer w/ my knees and use two hands to re-adjust & snap it in. When I left the pit I was sure it was ready, I just needed to tighten it up. The seconds take years when you&#39;re waiting for something to get finished. With a right side helper and a dome light, its not a problem.

I think there was another driver who did the same thing. I noticed it, but I didn&#39;t think it was J Gordon.

Matt

[Ron]

At the 2005 Daytona 24 I was in charge of driver changes for the Tafel team and let me tell you there is a lot of pressure to get the door open, net down, unplug the radio and drink tube, driver out ,new driver in, radio and drink tube plugged in, lap belts, sub strap, both shoulder straps in and over the hans, slight pull on all the belts after the driver sets the seat, double check hans, quick pull on the steering wheel to make sure it does not come off, window net back on and door closed in 40 seconds.
All I can say is that I never held up a pit stop. but dam it was intense. Our crew cheif ,Tony Dowe, read the rules and realized that a fifth crew member could help the driver change as long as they only helped the driver. They could do nothing else. Teams next to us after our first stopped accused us of cheating.
One of our drivers, Robin Liddel, made it very clear when we were practicing, to not be gentle, grab the driver and push him where you want him to go, he can&#39;t see anything anyway. The only thing that happened to me is that one time I was on my knees for some reason ( I never did it any other time) at the end of the stop and as I slammed the net up the car came down off the air jacks and the car slid down my thighs and pushed my knees out from under the car.
With all that I do think that the crew member needs to make sure that all of the above is right The driver as we all know can see or feel very little until it is too late.

[RacerBowie]

We have left the Isaac installed when Greg was in the car with his Wright Device but Bowie Gray&#39;s guys had to pull theirs out, whens someone got in with a Hans, I think.

You&#39;ve reminded me that I need to get in touch with my new codrivers and find out what they use.

K
[/b]

Yeah, that was a little bit time consuming. Probably added 15 or so seconds to our pit stops. What REALLY sucks about it is that about 15 minutes after the race was over I realized that the Isaac would very easily wiggle through the seatback holes the harnesses come through and ride very nicely back there while a Hans-equipped driver was in the seat.

I am smart sometimes, but not in a timely manner. :bash_1_: