ITR cars in BMWCCA Club Racing

[mlytle]

hey bmw itr racers!

i am currently working a clarification with the bmwcca crac to allow scca itr cars to race with bmwcca. currently there is no allowed class for us to play in over there. meet the its spec or bmwcca mod spec or hit the road. there is valid concern over the unknown performance potential of the itr cars against the jp and ip bmw classes. i have suggested that itr cars be allow to run "provisionally"...i.e. we don't count for points. this would allow bmwcca to directly compare performance of our cars against theirs so they can make an educated decision on where to class us/

what are your thoughts?

thanks,
marshall

[ed325its]

Marshall,

Other than the larger wheel size allowed for ITR, the E36 is currently classed in JP. The current configuation is without the ITS restrictor and last years ITS weight. What configuration are trying to get approved?

[gpeluso]

Marshall,
I don't get it. The only advantage a ITR car compared to a JP car is Weight. JP cars have 17in. wheels, big brake kits, wings, and cams. Cams alone equal the cars by themselves. I just don't get it.

Greg

Still don't know if ITR or ITS is the direction I'm going and the BMWCCA situtation is one of the reasons.

[Fastfred92]

Marshall

Clearly these cars are JP cars and even at the ITR weight they should pose no real threat to a 100% build JP club car. Really no significant difference from last years rules except weight.....

[JoshS]

I'm more interested in the other BMWs, not just the 325. How about the Z3?

[Z3_GoCar]

hey bmw itr racers!

i am currently working a clarification with the bmwcca crac to allow scca itr cars to race with bmwcca. currently there is no allowed class for us to play in over there. meet the its spec or bmwcca mod spec or hit the road. there is valid concern over the unknown performance potential of the itr cars against the jp and ip bmw classes. i have suggested that itr cars be allow to run "provisionally"...i.e. we don't count for points. this would allow bmwcca to directly compare performance of our cars against theirs so they can make an educated decision on where to class us/

what are your thoughts?

thanks,
marshall
[/b]

Hey Marshall,

Why don't you look at how I did at the Laguna-Seca race? Since this is not IT and they're concerned about performance potential. The ITR Z3 is actually heavier than the JP Z3 even thought the JP car is allowed Cams and the ITR car isn't. I suspect it's the 325 weight and dual classing that's causing the hang up, the rest of the cars are actually heavier than their JP equvallant. A couple of items to note is that it was my first race and I was new to Laguna-Seca, my car's 2500lbs all up so I'd need to add 300lbs to make ITR weight.

BMWCCA Fall Vintage Results (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=169314)

You'll note that my best time was quallifying on Sunday Morning of 1:47.414. This compaires to JP qualifying at 1:46.992 for Tom Bell to 1:41.797 for Lance Boicelli. I'd say the ITR Z3 poses little or not threat to JP cars because, they're heavier and they're not allowed cams, or lightened flywheels. Maybe the compromise is to make the ITR 325 run at the ITS weight in JP? How have you faired aginst JP cars in the past? I hope we can work through this impass.

James

[mlytle]

i am trying to get all the itr bmw's approved to run in prepared at their full itr spec, not just the e36 325's.

if folks convert their its e36's to itr by going to 17in wheels, they can't race in jp anymore under current bmwcca rules. they have to meet all its rules to run in jp. 17's ain't legal in its. doesn't matter if they run at the its weight.

i agree that most of the bmw's in itr would not appear to be a threat to the jp folks. all of us are overweight relative to the limited mods it cars are allowed compared to prepared. however, it is their sandbox that we are invading, so i want to try to work with bmwcca a bit to make sure they are comfortable. a provisional class where we don't effect their jp championship seems to be a decent compromise for now.

i am guessing that us scca types are only going to do bmwcca races for fun and don't care about the jp national championship.....

[Z3_GoCar]

You're right Marshall, I'm not out to race for a championship yet. I'm looking for opportunities to race, the more choices I have the better. If we're allowed to run on a provisional basis, for no points, that's perfectly fine with me.

James

[lateapex911]

Off topic perhaps, but I'm puzzled by the need to go 17" ...Would 16 x 8.5 be bad? Just curious, I should probably do more research before opening my mouth, LOL!

[JoshS]

No easily available 16x8.5 in BMW fitment, even heavy ones. If they existed, I'd probably have opted for them. There's always custom, but I was spending my money elsewhere at first.

[Z3_GoCar]

Off topic perhaps, but I'm puzzled by the need to go 17" ...Would 16 x 8.5 be bad? Just curious, I should probably do more research before opening my mouth, LOL!
[/b]

The old stand-by of Kosi K1's were avalible in 17x8.5 and are no longer being made. There was a group buy on Bimmerforums a couple of months ago for some 17x9's. I'm not sure who was the manufacturer was, and I no longer go there. But the hub-centric and 5x120 bolt pattern means the choices for decent light inexpensive and non-frangible wheels is slim and only getting more so.

James

[mlytle]

16x8.5's are practically non-exisitent for bmw's or i would go for them too. but then 16x8.5's ain't legal in its either, so that doesn't help the itr classification problem in bmwcca.

tirerack is actively advertising kosei 17x8.5's as in stock. i think they are back in production.

the drive for bigger wheels is not the diameter, it is the width increase from 7in to 8.5in. it is just that 17's are more common in that width than 16's.

[mlytle]

hey folks,
prompt response from bmwcca cr. it is only temporary, but at least there is a place to play. go race and see how you do!
---------------------
SCCR ITR class mapping Jan 22, 2007

Request: How will SCCA ITR cars be classified within BMW Club Racing?

Clarification: We do not yet have performance data on the new ITR class cars. A final decision will be made by 6/1/2007, when the final classification mappings will be made. Until that time, ITR cars will be classified one class above the class of the equivalent ITS car. If an ITS car would have been classified in JP, the ITR car will be classified in IP. This is a temporary classification, and will be finalized or adjusted once ITR performance data becomes available. We remind SCCA ITR racers that their car must be fully compliant to SCCA ITR rules; there is no mixing and matching of rulebooks.
---------------------
marshall

[gpeluso]

Marshall,
I don't get....however I'll do all ITR racers a favor. If they are going to monitor performance, stay home...let me go.....when they see my results the cars will be KP. Seriously, thank you for doing what you are doing. It just seems to be a no brainer for JP. I understand IP E36 M3's got a weight break...we have no chance against them.

Greg

[dj10]

hey folks,
prompt response from bmwcca cr. it is only temporary, but at least there is a place to play. go race and see how you do!
---------------------
SCCR ITR class mapping Jan 22, 2007

Request: How will SCCA ITR cars be classified within BMW Club Racing?

Clarification: We do not yet have performance data on the new ITR class cars. A final decision will be made by 6/1/2007, when the final classification mappings will be made. Until that time, ITR cars will be classified one class above the class of the equivalent ITS car. If an ITS car would have been classified in JP, the ITR car will be classified in IP. This is a temporary classification, and will be finalized or adjusted once ITR performance data becomes available. We remind SCCA ITR racers that their car must be fully compliant to SCCA ITR rules; there is no mixing and matching of rulebooks.
---------------------
marshall

[/b]



LOL, it looks like the BMW club aren't doing any SCCA ITR racers any favors. An ITS 325 without a SIR is pretty much a JP car correct? Isn't IP a faster class than JP?

[mlytle]

keep in mind that this is bmwcca's sandbox...we are "guests"....even though folks like me have been driving bmw's for 30+ years and are 25+ year members of bmwcca....;)

yes, itr cars should be perfectly in jp. i figured it would be a no-brainer. but, this stint in ip is only temporary while performance is monitored. we aren't running for national bmwcca championships anyway, it is just fun to run with them. scca cars have showed up at bmwcca events before prepped to the hilt with top drivers and smoked most of the bmwcca cars in the same class. a loaded bb gun tends to work better than an unloaded colt .45. :D because of this, bmwcca is a little hesitant about scca cars. recently however, there have been some very well prepped and driven bmwcca cars kicking butt. we are still having to overcome that old fear of scca prepped cars. the rule books say we should be crushed by the bmwcca cars, unfortunately on track performance proved otherwise in the past.

i like that kp idea...;)

[dj10]

"a loaded bb gun tends to work better than an unloaded colt .45"



Unless your in Grizz country :D