ITB VW Book suggestions

[jackedrabbit]

I'd like to do as much research as possible before building my '84 GTI ITB car,and would like some "required reading" suggestions.I've been pouring over the SCCA rules,and want to start learning everything there is to know about the car and how to go about building it correctly. I have a large garage and all the tools I need,and plenty of experience fixing cars,but I haven't spent much time building race cars.
I'm going to be doing research while I help a friend race his Baby Grand at NHIS this season,and start building once I learn enough. Thanx for the help.

Dave

[JimLill]

Review the efforts of others, for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI-SCCA-ITB-Race-Car_W0QQitemZ250075933993QQihZ015QQcategoryZ98064Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Rules-wise...., in IT

IIDSYCYC = if it doesn't say you can, you can't

Have Fun & Good Luck

[Conover]

Consider using a more modern platform. You can score an A3 GTI for a couple of grand, and from there out everything else pretty much costs the same. The reason I say that is because the A3's are beginning to show that they can do the job well, and the modern fuel systems and electronics are more reliable and easier to manage IMO. Seriously plunk down a little more cash for a newer model, beyond that it's almost all the same parts, cage, suspension, diff, etc.
The truth is, I just like them and want to see more out there! :D

This website is Chock full of information:

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/index.php

[jackedrabbit]

Consider using a more modern platform. You can score an A3 GTI for a couple of grand, and from there out everything else pretty much costs the same. The reason I say that is because the A3's are beginning to show that they can do the job well, and the modern fuel systems and electronics are more reliable and easier to manage IMO. Seriously plunk down a little more cash for a newer model, beyond that it's almost all the same parts, cage, suspension, diff, etc.
The truth is, I just like them and want to see more out there! :D

This website is Chock full of information:

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/index.php
[/b]

I'd like to,my wife drives a 2004 Golf,and we had a Golf III a few years ago.Both handle better than the '84
GTI.But,I got the GTI for free and it's in great shape mechanicaly. I like the look of the "84 too.I'm building it with a friend at work that has owned a few of the A1 chassis cars and knows alot about the fuel management systems. I'll have a good time no matter what I get to drive. And I like how light the "84 is too.

[Conover]

Well, that's as good a reason as any, your right you will have fun! Enjoy it and let us know how it goes, we love to see build pics around here!

[Knestis]

Eventually you'll probably come to understand that the "car" you start with is just a small fraction of the total cost of playing this game. It's really just the box that all of the expensive parts go into.

"Great shape mechanically" also goes out the window pretty quickly, once you start replacing bearings, hubs, rotors, calipers, CV joints, and bushings when you find out that while the are fine for the street, they'll REALLY show their age when you get on the track.

I'd caution you that the MkI GTIs are getting scarce enough, rusty enough, and old enough that body parts are going to start to get expensive, aftermarket suppliers are going to start ignoring them, and replacement mechanical parts sources are going to begin to dry up.

All of this falls under the heading of "false economy" - saving money with the original box, only to discover that the parts that really add up cost you enough more that you'd have been better off spending a little more on the front end. The same goes for donor cars that need substantial bodywork. :) That link above illustrates what I mean and that we all continue to make mistakes that cost us money...

K

[Bill Miller]

I have to echo what Kirk says about the donor car, it really is a small component in the whole picutre, from a cost perspective. He's also right that those cars are aging, and you will eventually run into issues w/ parts. Although, they are still very popular as both race cars and street cars. That all being said, I'd probably build one of those, vs building one of the newer cars, but that's because I really like the cars (and I have a ton of parts and a pretty decent knowledge of them (had several over the last 20 years).

They are simple, fun cars, w/ most of the development done, and a pretty broad knowledge base out there. I am really interested to see how they fare w/ the 100# weight reduction. And who knows, if the whole dual-classification thing ever takes off, they might get classed in ITC as well.

[shwah]

Good points made about picking a newer car, BUT

It could be a very competitve platform at the current weight spec.

[RSTPerformance]

when you like a car you like a car, and you just have to do it :) :OLA:


Plenty of old VW in the Northeast, don't be shy, they all seem to be great people :)

Be sure to hit up Mr. Shine, Mr Reece, Mr Gleason, Mr. Benagh and many others whom don't post here for advice.

Raymond

[JLawton]

I'd like to do as much research as possible before building my '84 GTI ITB car,and would like some "required reading" suggestions.
[/b]


Per Shroeder (from GRM fame) has a book about building VWs. Lots of good information........

Actually, send me an e-mail with your address, I think I may still have the book from when I ran an 83 GTi.
jlawton at echn.org

THE best information you will get is from this forum. You WILL get correct information and there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. There is also a bunch that still run the A1 in the Northeast. Plus, plenty of us you will run into at the NHIS races who are more than willing to help. If you got the shell for free, that's the car to go with!!

Make friends with Dick Shine.

[Bill Miller]

Per Shroeder (from GRM fame) has a book about building VWs. Lots of good information........



Make friends with Dick Shine.
[/b]


Jeff,

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't read Per's book), but doesn't it focus more on A2 and newer cars? I'd suggest Greg Raven's book for A1 cars (not sure if it's still in print or not). The problem is, nobody's got a book out on how to build an ITB Rabbit GTI.

And as Jeff said, you'll get a lot of good info off this site. Dick Shine is a good source, as is Stu Brummer at BSI (although I think they've shifted most of their effort to Miatas).

[jackedrabbit]

Per Shroeder (from GRM fame) has a book about building VWs. Lots of good information........

Actually, send me an e-mail with your address, I think I may still have the book from when I ran an 83 GTi.
jlawton at echn.org

THE best information you will get is from this forum. You WILL get correct information and there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. There is also a bunch that still run the A1 in the Northeast. Plus, plenty of us you will run into at the NHIS races who are more than willing to help. If you got the shell for free, that's the car to go with!!

Make friends with Dick Shine.
[/b]

I hope you mean "run into" in a figureative sense. B) I did see a few A1 cars when I went to NHIS last season. A few in ITB and a few in ITC. I'll be sure to ask lots of questions this year.

[itracer]

I hope you mean "run into" in a figureative sense. B) I did see a few A1 cars when I went to NHIS last season. A few in ITB and a few in ITC. I'll be sure to ask lots of questions this year.
[/b]

Drop by anytime my brother and I are in NHIS. He races the orange Rabbit GTI #71 and I race the #17 red scirocco.

We live in Northern MA if you need any advice before april, let me know.

[green golf]

Rabbits are really cool, but they are starting to get few and far between in ITB. I certanly dont want to discourage you from building one. We need the numbers, especially VWs!! I currently run an A2 golf and being involved with the development of a certan yellow Golf 3, I really think an A2 is the way to go. As far as parts availability (sheet metal, suspention components , gearboxes) and cost $$$$(as opposed to an A3). If you gat a car for free and are bound and determined to build a rabbit , then rock on!! They are great cars!! You can have a lot of fun with them . I just think an A2 is a better car. My 2 cents.

[JLawton]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't read Per's book), but doesn't it focus more on A2 and newer cars? [/b]

Nope, he gets into the A1's also. It is all fairly generic though. But it was good for someone like me who was new to VWs

[Knestis]

This isn't mine so I have no vested interest but it's a great example of why you should consider buying rather than building...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI...075933993QQrdZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI-SCCA-ITB-Race-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ98064QQihZ015QQitem Z250075933993QQrdZ1)

K

[gran racing]

Dave, Keep your car for parts (or a beater car), buy something like what Kirk said and begin racing now. My friend Jon just bought a GTi for under $3k ready for the track minus one or two minor items that need to be fixed.

[Bill Miller]

The car Kirk pointed too looks pretty tiddy. I'd contact the seller and see if he has a 'buy it now' price. I'm guessing the reserve on the car is in the $2500 range. You won't build your car for that, even w/ a free donor.



This isn't mine so I have no vested interest but it's a great example of why you should consider buying rather than building...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI...075933993QQrdZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-VW-GTI-SCCA-ITB-Race-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ98064QQihZ015QQitem Z250075933993QQrdZ1)

K
[/b]


We won't even get into this!! :D :OLA: :023: