VIR In March - CANCELLED??

[JeffYoung]

For you guys in the NEDiv (and other places) planning on heading south to VIR in March, looks like it may be cancelled. No details yet, but we (NC Region) may have lost that weekend and the race may be moved to Rockingham.

[Knestis]

Das ist die Poopenstinkers.

K

[iambhooper]

I don't know what Kirk said... but apparently the track took weekends away from 2 or 3 clubs. I also recomend that you look at there schedule. The Goblins Go date is not listed either.

Any new word on the Rocky Mount track or the one in Spencer?

[Greg Amy]

Scheisse.

Well, that explains it. I called the track before XMas to see if I could book a room at the condos, and the lady told me the weekend that I described was shown to be booked as a Porsche Club event. She said she'd get back to me, but she never did...

Scheisse.

So, when's the first VIR event?

[erlrich]

That's a shame...

Guess you guys are gonna have to come down in May, huh? We'll be sure to put out the welcome mat :D

[Rabbit07]

That sucks!

[JeffYoung]

This has been threatened for a while. When VIR originally opened, it was to be vintage and marque club events only. The owners originally did not want the SCCA there is what I have heard, kind of like Barber.

The worry in the NCR (Hoop an weigh in on this too) is that eventually the track management will allow NO SCCA events if they make enough money off of other rentals, etc. and they may be reaching that point with all the press VIR gets now.

I guess the only consolation is that last year, there were five SCCA weekends at the track -- March Memories (regional), May SARRC/MARRS (regional), August Oak Tree (national), October Goblins Go (regional), and the 13 hr. in November. So, looks like we may have got cut back to three, which still isn't too bad I suppose.

Greg, next VIR event is SARRC/MARRS which traditionally is mother's day weekend in May. Huge double SARRC, with the guys from MARRS coming down to run against the guys from the SARRC. Some people like it -- big event, some people don't -- not much track time as a result.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Scheisse.

Well, that explains it. I called the track before XMas to see if I could book a room at the condos, and the lady told me the weekend that I described was shown to be booked as a Porsche Club event. She said she'd get back to me, but she never did...

Scheisse.

So, when's the first VIR event?
[/b]

Well I guess that makes our decision a little easier Greg... Bummer!

[seckerich]

When you see who took the March event you will not be so happy. New track manager see's no loyalty to those who have supported them all along--just dollar signs. Very similar to Road Atlanta for a while when Panoz took over. Look for other groups to get screwed as well.

[dj10]

When you see who took the March event you will not be so happy. New track manager see's no loyalty to those who have supported them all along--just dollar signs. Very similar to Road Atlanta for a while when Panoz took over. Look for other groups to get screwed as well. [/b]

Who took the event? Is it because of additional track up keep caused by racing that is creating the problem? I wonder if Porsche Club racing, BMW club racing and nasa will get hit too?

[erlrich]

So, what is it that makes us so undesireable to these tracks? Is it purely a profit motive, or are there other things about the way we do business they don't like? It sucks to loose any dates at tracks like VIR or RA, much less to face the prospect of loosing all dates.

[Greg Amy]

Greg, next VIR event is SARRC/MARRS which traditionally is mother's day weekend in May.[/b]

As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...

Sigh.

[sccaflagger74]

I have not worked F&C in several years but doesn't NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends at VIR? Not a very good faith move on the part of VIR if they did pull dates from the SCCA after NCR worked to get a worker corp together for the track. If I were a worker there I would have to rethink participating in anything other than SCCA events at VIR.

Bob Lindenmuth

[Rabbit07]

As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...

Sigh.
[/b]

Greg,


I feel the same way.

[tom_sprecher]

So, what is it that makes us so undesireable to these tracks? Is it purely a profit motive, or are there other things about the way we do business they don't like? It sucks to loose any dates at tracks like VIR or RA, much less to face the prospect of loosing all dates.
[/b]

Occasionally, track management may have a bad taste for the SCCA due to some history, but in general it's all about the Benjamins. The hosting region can either come up with a creative format that includes more entries or raise the entry fee. That's why you see events that include SARRC and ECR and Pro IT and CCPS and whatever. Either way increases the $/mile for the driver.

Whadyagonnado?

[seckerich]

As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...

Sigh.
[/b]
Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time. Hope to see you there.
Talks are ongoing with the track and It is not my place to say who took the date. You will be surprised.

[JeffYoung]

What I have heard from others in the region is that it is about money (the entity taking the date rented both the full and the Patriot courses at the same time, which can be run together).

I understand there was some shuffling of the schedule at teh request of Porsche Club, not sure if the March cancellation was due ot that.

[dj10]

Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time. Hope to see you there.
Talks are ongoing with the track and It is not my place to say who took the date. You will be surprised. [/b]

How are we going to be surprised if no one will tell us? :blink:

Hopefully the weather will be better this year and I'll make it but I'll be in ITR. I think it's a 8 hr tow for me. Glad I don't live near the artic circle like Amy. :D

[R2 Racing]

As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...

Sigh.
[/b]


Greg,
I feel the same way.
[/b]
Me three.

I guess I'll watch what comes for the May MARRS/SARRC weekend and decide if I want to do it, but I'm still really upset that they cancelled the March one. That perfectly into my schedule of sitting on my hands waiting for my Great Lakes season to start.

[JeffYoung]

Yes, this sucks all around. That was my favorite race weekend.

[erlrich]

Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time.[/b] Steve, just curious, what are they considering doing to add track time and yet fit the event into 2 days? I'll be there regardless, but was just wondering.

[dj10]

Me three.

I guess I'll watch what comes for the May MARRS/SARRC weekend and decide if I want to do it, but I'm still really upset that they cancelled the March one. That perfectly into my schedule of sitting on my hands waiting for my Great Lakes season to start. [/b]

Kevin, Summit Point Apr. 28.

[JamesB]

Complaint has always been that the MARRS/SARRC was too many days with too few minutes on track. so now they will Qual in the morning, with a shorter race in the afternoon is what I understand which is the normal SARRC format thus cutting down all the time needed to take off for the long tows. Of course if the reg cost is the same this year it just shows they moved to this format to keep the cost down and squeeze in as much time as possible for each run group.

[seckerich]

Biggest complaint has always been that they run only 2 qualifiers on Friday (Sat and Sun Races). Then you sit around all day Saturday and Sunday to just race. No practice--period. Discussion is that there will be two sessions each morning and both will be qualifiers and the races after lunch. Either way they are working hard to get us more track time for the drive and save friday for a test day. Much rather pay for a test and get tons of track time on friday and have shorter qualifier. The length of the track makes it hard to get cars out and back in without a lot of wasted time. I suggested they checker us at Black flag out of oak tree to save time in morning sessions. Every little bit helps. Need more time at speed and less on out laps and cooldown. :eclipsee_steering: Too good a weekend to miss because of schedule.

[bldn10]

I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em! :bash_1_:

[JamesB]

I am aware of the format, but I just dont see how we will get any more time then we did last year squeezed into 2 days. Its not possible with the large fields and size of the track. So instead of 2 20 min qualifiers on Friday with 1 ~40 minute race on each day we will get what? 2 10 min morning qualifier and a 20 minute afternoon race? Ok that works unless you break but its still the same amount of time on track just less at one time.

[Racerboy03]

So, is this going to be official in a few days? I still see it up on the SEDIV calendar. To echo everyone else's comments, THIS SUCKS!

Btw, Ruck, I love the avatar!


Mark

[dj10]

I have not worked F&C in several years but doesn't NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends at VIR? Not a very good faith move on the part of VIR if they did pull dates from the SCCA after NCR worked to get a worker corp together for the track. If I were a worker there I would have to rethink participating in anything other than SCCA events at VIR.

Bob Lindenmuth [/b]

Bob, I like the way you think. You notice that any race organization or driving school event want SCCA Flaggers. Why would that be? ;)

[erlrich]

So instead of 2 20 min qualifiers on Friday with 1 ~40 minute race on each day we will get what? 2 10 min morning qualifier and a 20 minute afternoon race? Ok that works unless you break but its still the same amount of time on track just less at one time. [/b] James, our races were only 10 laps or ~ 23 minutes last year. I can see them fitting 7 half-hour races into an afternoon, as long as we put the Miatas in the last group :D - then they'll have all evening to clean up. Hell, even if we get the same amount of track time I would rather pack it into 2 days than spread it over 3. And I'll bet the workers feel the same way.

[Bildon]

Crap, I was planning to come down there too. :mad1:



I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em! :bash_1_:
[/b]
This is the wrong attitude if you ever want SCCA to go back there. Low turnouts will just make it worse.


NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends[/b]
Can't NCR "negotiate" workers in exchange for event weekends like other regions do? And by "negotiate" I mean BLACKMAIL ! :cavallo:

[sccaflagger74]

I was poking around the NCR site and it looks like they officially worked only 3 extra races last year, nothing out of the ordinary for a "pro" track. I guess VIR must not use SCCA workers anymore (at least not official, probably lot's of crossover) for events like the Gold Cup. Maybe someone with more recent (relevant) experience there can chime in.

Here is the 2006 calendar for NCR. http://www.ncrscca.com/drivers.htm#calendar
I was trying to get to the internet wayback machine to look for older calendars but my work blocks the site.

Bob

[JeffYoung]

Earl, I think they count the pace lap in the "30 minutes or 10 laps" deal, and since it takes about 4-5 minutes to go around at pace speed, that's close to the 30 minutes. Not saying this is right, just saying I think that is what they do.

Yes, NCR provides workers to the track for almost all of their events I think. The track has -- I think, Ben help here if you can -- been working on developing its own worker force though.

I would greatly prefer that the weekend be like all Double SARRCs which is qualify in the morning, race in the afternoon.

[JamesB]

sure if I can get the same amount of track time in 2 days that I would get in 3 without paying for 3 days you got it. But if the cost is no different I actually enjoy the relaxed way things are done and the amount of time you have to attempt to put another motor together when you blow up.

[iambhooper]

The region porvided workers for 3 extra events in 2006... Daytona Protoype's, Grand AM, and I think Stock car Spectaculare' ".

The track has it's own staff of corner workers. I believe they have enough crew to man every station with a worker shift (could be wrong). Most of these guys work every week, and even though they usually staff 1 person per corner, are very effective and experienced. IMHO, I think this probably has something to do with the situation at hand.

So often I see many of my SCCA friends present an arrogent attitude towards the SCCA and a track or another club. The kind of attitude that the "the track needs us", or were better than there workers, or we know best how things should be run. Or yet still... they needed us when they got started... well, they don't now!

In addition, rarely does the SCCA approach the track weekend as the customer. Instead, they want to run the entire show and tell everyone how it should be done. How many of us allow our customer's to handle the manufacturing or processing, or staffing of their order? Much less tell you how it should be done (and yes, I know the customer is always right)? In my business, if I don't like the customer, I don't have to do business with him right away (or ever again). We all can choose who we work with.

As for the dates... I heard that 3 clubs lost weekends. Porsche club included.

I love VIR. I wold race there every day, if I could. However, if they prefer Vintage, or car clubs, or Prestige events, so be it.

[JeffYoung]

Hoop, good points all. Do you know how the NCR - VIR relationship is? It seems like Chuck Stanley is pretty easy to deal with etc. as far as workers, etc. goes. I don't know about the relationship between VIR management and SCCA local management though. Have we done anything to antagonize them?

I know that Rex and Scott did a ton of work putting in the lights at the corner stations for the enduros, etc. and didn't the region pay for the tech shed? Or am I wrong about that?

At the bottom of this though is exactly what you said. This is a business. If VIR can make more money with someone else, well, it is their track and they can do that if they want.

[dj10]

Another reason to advertise SCCA regionals as spectator events so the tracks can make more $. $ usually talks.

[iambhooper]

Yes, we paid for the Scale room and the Gazebo's. The lights are ours adn come and go with us.

[lateapex911]

Another reason to advertise SCCA regionals as spectator events so the tracks can make more $. $ usually talks.

[/b]

Only if enough people show up to offset the extra cost of ticket takers. And tickets. Sounds silly, but SCCA spectator numbers aren't typically a big revenue stream...even at the ARRC, the counts are pretty dismal.

[gran racing]

There are spectators other than drivers & crew at the ARRC? :rolleyes:

[lateapex911]

There are spectators other than drivers & crew at the ARRC? :rolleyes:
[/b]

Yes, Melissa was there, right?

(I never once saw her touch any car, so....she must not be a crew, right?)

(On the other hand, she didn't pay to get in, and Gregg Baker was a no show this year, sooooo, maybe you are right, no spectators!)

[dj10]

Only if enough people show up to offset the extra cost of ticket takers. And tickets. Sounds silly, but SCCA spectator numbers aren't typically a big revenue stream...even at the ARRC, the counts are pretty dismal.
[/b]

I really would wonder what would happen if someone took sometime and did some creative marketing of these events, what would happen? I guess we'll never know. B)

[JeffYoung]

You should see pictures of SCCA events at VIR in the 60's and 70's. I would guess several thousand spectators in let's say a Woodstock like atmosphere.

[bldn10]

"I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em!"

"This is the wrong attitude if you ever want SCCA to go back there. Low turnouts will just make it worse."

Bill, I said lock, stock, and barrel - not low turnouts - NO turnouts! Cancel everything. They evidently want to have their cake and eat it too: they allow us to hang around just enough to keep us interested (for their benefit) but treat us like crap. It's like the girl you would die for who tells you you're never going to get anywhere w/ her (because she likes doctors who drive Porsches) but she doesn't mind if you take her out to dinner now and then anyway. I say: fine, if you really don't want us then we will just find another track that does. Maybe they will come to realize that having a good relationship w/ the SCCA and its tens of thousands of members is worth something. Barber basically kicked us out and now it looks like we'll be going back.

I'm sorry; this kind of crap just pisses me off. :mad1:

[seckerich]

Wait until you have actually run VIR and then come back and tell us you want to go away. :rolleyes: This is a world class facility with some of the nicest staff and workers I have ever met. We rolled in about 10 minutes before the gate was to close after the hurricane went through a few years ago. Long story short the guard needed to go home and get a generator going for his family but waited for me to park and unhook before he left. Good people. Tracks go through cycles where they change focus and see big dollar signs. I just hope they work with the region and give them a chance before giving the date to the 3 ring circus that took it.

[Jeremy Billiel]

"I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em!"

"This is the wrong attitude if you ever want SCCA to go back there. Low turnouts will just make it worse."

Bill, I said lock, stock, and barrel - not low turnouts - NO turnouts! Cancel everything. They evidently want to have their cake and eat it too: they allow us to hang around just enough to keep us interested (for their benefit) but treat us like crap. It's like the girl you would die for who tells you you're never going to get anywhere w/ her (because she likes doctors who drive Porsches) but she doesn't mind if you take her out to dinner now and then anyway. I say: fine, if you really don't want us then we will just find another track that does. Maybe they will come to realize that having a good relationship w/ the SCCA and its tens of thousands of members is worth something. Barber basically kicked us out and now it looks like we'll be going back.

I'm sorry; this kind of crap just pisses me off. :mad1:
[/b]

Be careful of what you wish for. Very few new race tracks are being built these days. The tracks need to survive and its simple supply and demand. Yes I agree that the SCCA does do a lot for the track with publicity, workers, etc and it never feels good, but to think that the track will be screwed if we leave is silly. They can rent those days out ALL DAY to other clubs, while needing less workers and having less risk. I still want to drive VIR, but we must understand the economics of running a track before we make blanket statements.

[JeffYoung]

3 ring circus...oh hell....is it NASA?

[lateapex911]

And maybe just getting that ONE date with the HOTTEST chick, and getting her juuuust drunk enough is.....enough.....if ya know what I mean. ;)

Who'd want to marry her anyway?

[charrbq]

A lot of times it's a simple management issue rather than an owner problem. Not to belittle the issue, but often, things change over a period of time. The SCCA can be rather picky about a lot of things concerning courses and their operation. I have no problem with that at all, but sometimes the management of the organization does. It's happened. My understanding is that's exactly what happened at Barber. Things started smelling when they did the same, if not worse, to the Porsche club as they did to the SCCA.

Racing is almost an oxymoron. A race track needs them to stay in business, but doesn't want them, because it creates too much work. We have to face it, in this day and age, unless you're last name is France or something similar, it's more dollar beneficial to take all that mass of acerage and asphalt and put condominiums or industrial parks on it.

[JeffYoung]

Unless it is 10 miles south of Kershaw South Carolina.

CMP has THREE regional weekends this year by the way. THREE.

[seckerich]

Race dates tend to get moved for various reasons. The track changes available dates, the regions swap dates, or dates you see as a regional may change to a national (or vice-versa). ALL the dates on the Southeast schedule are not final until after the annual meeting at Jekyll. Give it some time. We will have plenty of places to play.

[mazda49]

Racers......it seems everyone chimes in and has an opinion without the knowledge of why? As someone who manages a racetrack I can't see that VIR has done anything out of the norm for a business that was a major investment by Mr. Seigal the New York Investment Broker who took the track which was abondoned and
in shambles and rebuilt it. If you would have flown over the track in the early ninties it would have only invoked memories of emotions. I for one ran the Carter Hall 250 back in 1971 that Peter Gregg and Hurley Haywood won. Other than being participants what are we doing to help the track achieve the goals of being the premier road racing course in America. As Steve said. "world class facility", I feel as if we are a guest at an exclusive country club. Selling motorsports outside of the NASCAR Cup/Busch/Craftsman series is difficult. I say thanks for allowing us to run the facility. If you knew the number of barriers in place by the EPA/building-code departments/permitting/legal obstacles you would know that as we loose racetracks new ones will be difficult to build. Support is what VIR or any track needs. Sometimes the obstacles are put in place by those with authority acting only in their interest. A little consideration needs to be used in this discussion. Dictating what as group this forums opinions....will lead to many years of wondering why VIR developed and attitude by those who wish to race their in the future.

[lateapex911]

What track do you manage??

[murphyd]

The race has not been cancelled! It has been moved to March 10-11 at Rockingham. This should be a great event as their is tentatively an ECR/SARRC/CCPS scheduled. Talking to the NCR RE the fees will be very reasonable and the track time more than usual. Also NASCAR garages will be available! If you like Lowes you'll like Rockingham. Not as much horsepower needed so it kinda even things out. Come out and play!!

[Greg Amy]

The race has not been cancelled![/b]

Uh, Ok. The March 17th event at VIR is not cancelled.

But, it's not on March 17th, it's on March 11th.

Oh, and it's not at VIR, it's at Rockingham.

But it's not cancelled.

"I'm not cheap, I'm thrifty."


:)

[Jeremy Billiel]

Uh, Ok. The March 17th event at VIR is not cancelled.

But, it's not on March 17th, it's on March 11th.

Oh, and it's not at VIR, it's at Rockingham.

But it's not cancelled.

"I'm not cheap, I'm thrifty."
[/b]

LOL... Thanks for the laugh Greg. I really needed it. Work just plain sucks this week!

[tom_sprecher]

When looked at from a Regional and Division level David is correct is stating the event has not been canceled. It is just on another date and track. I know it sounds goofy but if you have ever tried to change the Division schedule and still make all the racing regions happy in a division as big as SEDiv you would get it.

[JeffYoung]

Greg, David (on his own time) runs our local (and excellent) pro series, the Carolina Cup. I'm sure he was just reminding everyone that my topic line about cancellation is not accurate -- race was moved. I didn't mean to impact registration for the Cup (and other) races at the Rock.

I ran there last fall during the first test day after it reopened to the SCCA. Not bad for a roval, I liked it better than Lowe's in some respects, except for that nasty transition onto the banking.

[Greg Amy]

Roger. Ninja edited a :) in there (which was the original intent...)

[gprodracer]

Just to chime in here..

For anyone who has never driven the "roval" at Rockingham, it is unlike any roval you've ever driven. It is a huge handling track, and because the oval section is not as long as Lowes, or Daytona, horsepower is far from the determining factor for fast laps. On the banking, your field of vision is very small, as the corners are very tight with the amount of banking. It is a track that you will either love or hate...nothing in between.
I personally am exteremely glad it is open to SCCA again, and look forward to going back.
BTW, if your car doesn't handle very well, you will "hate" the track.

Good luck to all going, and lets all work towards getting more VIR dates as well. Heed the previous advice...we need the SCCA at all the tracks we can get to.

Mark

[Ron Earp]

I drove The Rock in a Miata, got some laps in Jeff's TR8, and also drove Robert Mitchells IT7 car there - I loved the track. It was a lot of fun and while short is pretty cool. It isn't a VIR replacement though, that is for certain. I'm hoping we get some VIR dates back and continue to run Rockingham, Lowes, and CMP.

Is there anything members can do to help get the VIR dates back or organize future dates?

Ron

[Fi3555]

Let's get Real !!!

VIR is heaven !!

Lowe's is a blast NASCAR style !!

Rockingham is a .......................... hole !!

Been there, done that,got the $2 trophy !!

Let's get VIR back on schedule next season !!



Tim

[JeffYoung]

Awww...it ain't THAT bad.....

[camop]

My one experience with VIR. . . Incredible!

I hope we don't have problems getting dates there. Its worth the travel and I for one will race there any chance I can get.

I think we should do everything we can to keep VIR hosting SCCA events.

[murphyd]

To my knowledge, the March date at VIR is the only date that the NCR lost. The May SAARC/MARRS, Aug. National/CCPS (possible Dbl CCPS) and the Oct Ghoblins Go are all still on schedule! I met with the RE Weds. night and discussed all of these dates. From our conversations, I don't feel that we're in danger of losing all of these events. But who knows!?

Cancelled/Moved
Potato :bash_1_: /Tomato

[mattjeffitc]

Does anyone know the offical reason for VIR to cancel our weekend? The March races have been a big weekend in the past. NCR has had that event for several years now. Also how far in advance are the track schedules made?

Just doesn&#39;t seem right. <_<

JJ

[bldn10]

"When looked at from a Regional and Division level David is correct is stating the event has not been canceled. It is just on another date and track."

Likewise, your date w/ Carmen Electra to the Super Bowl has not been canceled, you will just be going to a High School game w/ Ugly Betty. :P

[CaptainWho]

the Oct Ghoblins Go are all still on schedule!
[/b]

Not as of five minutes ago, it wasn&#39;t.

Edit: On the event schedule at virclub.com, that is.

[murphyd]

As of Weds. night the Ghoblins Go is still on for VIR. If VIR has changed that they had not informed the RE as of Weds. night! Who knows!?

[sgallimo]

... I can&#39;t see that VIR has done anything out of the norm for a business ...[/b]Hmm.. had I been in VIR&#39;s position, I would have approached the Region, explained my reasons for giving the date to someone else, and at least given the Region the option to meet or beat the deal. I certainly would not have simply given the date to someone else and let the Region find out by happenstance. Had I not wanted to give the Region that simple courtesy, I would have at least not implemented the change until the 2008 session. My personal feeling is that something of this import, and wide reaching impact (financially, etc.), should not be a surprise.



... major investment by Mr. Seigal the New York Investment Broker who took the track which was abondoned and in shambles and rebuilt it... Other than being participants what are we doing to help the track achieve the goals of being the premier road racing course in America....[/b] Let&#39;s absolutely not allow the passage of a few years to dim the remarkable gift that the VIR owners, management, and staff have given us. It is a world class venue. I also feel that the Region had a part in making VIR what it is today. I feel that we significantly advanced VIR along the timetable to greatness by providing them with a professional, well trained pool of workers and speciality chiefs to staff their amateur and pro events and to train their own pool of workers. We helped them determine the location of the armco, tire walls, hard barriers, and worker stations. We purchased and installed the wonderful worker stations on the course (with concrete foundations and stairs where appropriate). We expanded the tech shed by creating a scale room with in-ground scales. We initiated them into the world of extended endurance races with our initial 8 hour, and current 13 hour races. We created great friendships with the wonderful folks employeed by the track. I like to think that anytime they called, we answered.

Did we receive a lot in return for all of the above? Absolutely. Do I wish the situation in question had been handled differently by VIR? Absolutely.

I&#39;m not saying that VIR has to treat the Region any differently than any other customer. I&#39;m saying that, because of everything we&#39;ve contributed, they should want to.

[tom_sprecher]

"When looked at from a Regional and Division level David is correct is stating the event has not been canceled. It is just on another date and track."

Likewise, your date w/ Carmen Electra to the Super Bowl has not been canceled, you will just be going to a High School game w/ Ugly Betty. :P
[/b]

You know, when you&#39;ve been to the Super Bowl with Carmen Electra as many times as I have, a high school game with Ugly Betty sounds pretty good. ;)

Honestly, when an event can not be run at the track of choice it becomes a real pain to get it in somewhere else. That is part of what we do at the SEDiv Convention with regard to SARRC races. We have a tendency to look at it as one of the four SARRC races NCR can hold a year instead of the March race at VIR. Kind of a retailer vs. customer type of thing. I am sure that the VIR product is much better than The Rock and it is unfortunate the way things worked out.

Maybe I can get the money to build a new track from Carmen...she&#39;s doing those commercials from Taco Bell now, I think. :D

[JeffYoung]

Scott, great post. Spot on.

I am a member at the Club and I have asked the Club management to explain to me why they did this the way they did. I doubt I will learn anything through this channel, but if I do, I will of course share it.

Again, great post.