PDA

View Full Version : 2007 ARRC Planning



Butch Kummer
11-15-2006, 05:10 PM
As I was responding to MattBerg's most recent tirade (look under SEDIV), I realized it was his rantings about a year ago that made me aware that this forum existed. I know at least part of the success of the 2006 ARRC was due to communication we had here and that would not have been possible had it not been for his rantings about the Jekyll Secret Meeting bringing my name into things. The racing gods do INDEED have a sense of humor! :lol:

At any rate, I'm thinking we need to add a race group to the schedule in 2007. ITR will be coming on board next year, so they get grouped with ITS while we take the TCC guys out and combine them with ITO in a "new" group (we will be running ITO/ITU at all our Atlanta Region events in 2007 and I see them growing a BUNCH in the next year). That leaves SPO, GTA and LMSC in the ground-pounder group, and those numbers are increasing every year as well. Everybody likes to race on Saturday and have Sunday to get home, but we only have so much daylight available in November in North Georgia. I'm wondering who we could move to Sunday when it hit me!

What if we eliminate the warm-up Saturday morning? The negatives are somebody's going to have to be ready to race at 8:15 Saturday morning rather than 9:15, but we could always rotate that each year so the same guys don't get hosed all the time. We'd also have to cut back on qualifying on Friday - maybe go to two 15 minutes sessions? Another option would be to keep the warm-up but cut the races back to 15 laps (I'm NOT real keen on that - the 20 lappers are different - but it IS an option).

I'd welcome your input, and when you reply be sure to thank MattBerg for his contribution to the process. B)

See ya...

gran racing
11-15-2006, 05:19 PM
My vote is to cut the Sat. warm-ups - at least in terms of the quantity of them. Maybe do one hardship warm-up that requires permission from the steward to participate in? This would still cut much time out and allow for another group.

Since so many people travel great distances for the event, I really don't think making the race shorter is a good idea. Same basic thing with shortening the qual. sessions. For many of us, we need as much of this time to learn the track as possible. I'd rather be learning it during qual. and potentially improving those times than during a warm-up.

You go Mattberg - thank you! :lol:

Greg Amy
11-15-2006, 05:23 PM
Butch, I tend to pass on the warm-ups; I certainly have in the last two years. Just another opportunity to break something...I like Dave's suggestion for an approved, shortened warm-up .

Thanks, MattB!

Butch Kummer
11-15-2006, 05:30 PM
Problem with doing even one warm-up is we'd have to do two. The open-wheeled guys are people too and they don't take kindly to being used as speed bumps by us full-fendered types.

We could probably keep the 20 minute sessions on Friday by dropping the Pro-IT that afternoon, but I'd NEVER get that past my Board. I need to get my spreadsheet out and start ciphering...

JeffYoung
11-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Butch, thanks for this. I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.

Thanks again for asking us for input.

lateapex911
11-15-2006, 05:54 PM
Butch, thanks for asking!

What about 2 SHORT warm ups? heck you'll never really learn anything in the AM when the track is greasy anyway, and few rarely need all the time anyway. The only reason I'd do one is if i crunched the car in the Pro IT, or had some other reason to see if it rolled properly, etc.

Why not do a 20 minute MAX session, first cone, first served, like you did qualifying, 10 minutes closed wheel then 10 minutes open, no break in between?

The race were over this year about 4:30 right? And it seemed like there was planty of time for the podium ceremonies and then some.

(I watched the ITS TCC race and I cringed at the interface. I''m sure that you had little option in that grouping, but splitting them apart would be great, they just make their lap times in different ways.)

And I'm not sure I'll thank MAttberg....who knows there ARE different ways you could have discovered us!

zracre
11-15-2006, 06:27 PM
since the Pro IT is an Atlanta regional type thing why not move that to sunday? and while we are moving stuff around...the enduro first thing on sunday am...

Andy Bettencourt
11-15-2006, 06:40 PM
Butch, thanks for this. I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.

Thanks again for asking us for input. [/b]

+ 1.

Bildon
11-15-2006, 07:40 PM
2 very short warm ups please. 1 CW and 1 OW.
Just long enough to get 3 laps in and find out if your thing-a-ma-bobby is going to fall off or not.

Pro-IT, agreed, move it to Sunday unless you really feel the spectators who are not there with the teams will disappear without it... how many Spectator tickets are sold anyway?

Is the Pro IT really needed? Ahh, it's a cash cow I bet :P

Hracer
11-15-2006, 08:23 PM
Thanks for asking for input!

I wouldn't mind 15 min qualifying sessions, as long as there are two in case something doesn't go according to plan in the first one. We never shoot to stay out a whole qualifying session anyway, the car is at its fastest the first few laps.

As far as the Saturday morning warm-ups go, although I see them exactly as Greg does - as another chance to break something and so we don't plan on running them - I think they can be very important in some cases. Last year we seized a driveshaft in Friday's Pro IT. After replacing it and doing an alignment on friday evening, even just the 3-4 laps we were out there for in Saturday's warm up were very convenient to have to make sure the car is 100%. As others suggested, perhaps one or two hardship practices with prior permission to run is the best idea.

Moving the Pro IT after the sprint races has its pros and cons. For people coming from out of town, there are those who don't run it to save their car/equipment for Saturday, while there are those who choose to run it as extra track time before the big race. As far as those who are running for points (as we were last year), we are somewhat forced to take the additional risk and run it on Friday. These same people would still run the race if it would be held Sunday and would probably be happier doing so, however there would likely be a loss of entries from those out of town who won't stay for it.

Fi3555
11-15-2006, 09:04 PM
The warm-up sessions are a great way to break something or write a car off . Been there, done that !
Two qualifying sessions of 15-20 minutes would be just right.

What happened to our 40 minute Q session for the enduro ?? Quite a shock when I learned I couldn't
go back on course after a short time in the pits.


Tim
#97 ITB Golf

IPRESS
11-16-2006, 12:58 PM
Butch,
This is my 5th ARRC towing from Texas. I always plan on leaving Weds. and getting home Monday night no matter how you guys set the schedule. My suggestion would be to do away with the warm up per say, but offer a hardship lap for those who need to check something out.
I am not sure what you guys opinion of the Pro Miata Madness race was, but I think if promoted as "the race" where the best miata racers run against each other, the field will grow into a large number. I think this year people didn't really get the idea. It was pretty cool having all different kinds of miatas out there. Mazda had to love it. Next year I think you will have several MX5 Cup car entries if you guys choose to keep it part of the weekend.
Having several different races attracts racers like myself, who are there just to compete. If the ARRC sprint race was the only one I could run, I doubt I would tow over. The many different events are a big draw for the long haulers.

gsbaker
11-16-2006, 03:26 PM
I plan on making my first visit to the ARRC this coming year and would have no problem eliminating the warm ups.[/b]
You've never been there before and you don't care to bother with warm ups? I love it. That's confidence!

Jeff and Andy get the testicular hypertrophy award. :023:

RSTPerformance
11-16-2006, 03:45 PM
Thanks Mattburg, ego going up???

ok butch...

I second (third forth???) the comments above.

Keep all the ARRC races the same times for qualifying and same length races. Move the Pro IT race to Sunday morning. On Sunday morning do 30 minute qualifying first thing for PRO IT, then Qualifying for Enduro, then back to the Pro IT race.

Saturday warmups could be changed to a hardship with permission only. I know for sure that I would want to be able to test something before I had to race with it. It also "warms up" the track for the first race. Granted if a "fix" didn't work in the warmups, and you were the first or second race you wont get it fixed anyhow, so some may argue what good is a Hardship?

Also how many people scrub in brand new tires in warm up?

Raymond

Eagle7
11-17-2006, 12:36 PM
Also how many people scrub in brand new tires in warm up?
[/b]
My tires require 24 hours of down time after the initial heat cycling.

crushed
11-17-2006, 03:12 PM
I'm all in for moving the PRO-it to Sunday. The ARRC should be everyone's first race of the weekend, it sucks to have a crappy car for the ARRC because it got smashed in the PRO (ask me how I know).

How about we cut the miata madness race and get the enduro back to 3 hours?

If we cut warmups from Saturday morning is there enough time for the pro-it race as the last race on Saturday?

Butch Kummer
11-17-2006, 05:11 PM
I haven't been asleep, I've just been waiting to collect your ideas.

We have a post-mortem of the 2006 ARRC scheduled for next Tuesday evening (11/21) and we'll consider a number of the things discussed here. One of the things I hate about the Runoffs is that your last qualifier is on Thursday and then two-thirds of the field sits around at least one day before they race. I want qualifying for the Championship races on Friday and all those races on Saturday. Sunday is for the "bonus" races and is a self-contained (qualifying and race) day. And with eight (8) ARRC groups, both Friday and Saturday are packed! Given those restraints, there are a couple of things suggested here that won't work:

1. Qualifying and racing before the Church Break on Sunday. Suppose Pro-IT qualifies first thing Sunday morning, then another (non-IT) group, then the Pro-IT race. We thought about that for Miata Madness in 2006, but even if T&S could get the grid sheets out as the last Pro-IT car comes down pit road (our guys are good but not THAT good) the GCR requires them to be posted at least 30 minutes before the start of the race to give people time to protest. Won't fit in the time period avaiable.

2. Can't run the Enduro before lunch because we'd have no qualifying times. I suppose we COULD form the grid based on entry timestamp, though - THAT would get people to register early! :lol:

Not in any particular order, these are the championship groups I'm looking at for 2007:

ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
ITA, IT7
ITR, ITS
Open-wheel (they want to split up but the numbers just aren't there)
TCC, ITO
Ground-pounders (and don't even THINK about dropping them!)
Little stuff (SPU, ITU, ITT, etc.)

We'll certainly give consideration to moving the Pro-IT to Sunday, but that would mean Miata Madness is toast. At least one race on Sunday has to be non-IT to give a break between (for example) Pro-IT and the Enduro for those wanting to do both. I was disappointed in the turnout for the "Wings & Things" race, so during the year I'll get a read from my fellow ground-pounders to see if they'd want a bonus race on Sunday. The Enduro is safe (gives the long-haulers another reason to make the trip), but I don't see it going back to three hours with two other races that day. But then if Mazda is willing to write a BIG check, all bets would be off on running Pro-IT at all. :rolleyes:

If we drop the three 10-minute warm-ups Saturday morning, we can fit all eight Championship races into the available daylight (assuming reasonable favor with the Racing Gods). I'll also look at having two 5-minute REAL hardship ("we-rebuilt-the-car-last-night-and-need-to-see-if-the-wheels-fall-off") warm-ups that would require Chief Steward approval.

Earlier this year we discussed establishing some kind of travel fund, but right now I don't believe the numbers justify the hassles it would create. Based on participation this year, an extra $50 in the entry fee would mean something like $250 for those travelling 500 miles or more. The reason it works even slightly at the Runoffs is because $5 of every National entry fee through the year goes into the fund and we don't have that luxury.

There's no real vote here, I just want to keep y'all abreast of what we're thinking and see whatcha think. I was pretty happy with the way 2006 went, but (as on a good race lap) there's ALWAYS a way to make it better.

Keep those calls, cards, and letters coming in...

Butch Kummer
2007 ARRC Committee Chairman
(yes, we're running unopposed)

lateapex911
11-17-2006, 07:30 PM
Butch I just heard today, and it wasn't from an official source that Dalylight savings time is not going to be in effect next year...it's being pahsed in 2 weeks later. That could add an hour of daylight each day for you.

I'd check into that, it might help.

dj10
11-17-2006, 07:38 PM
Butch I just heard today, and it wasn't from an official source that Dalylight savings time is not going to be in effect next year...it's being pahsed in 2 weeks later. That could add an hour of daylight each day for you.

I'd check into that, it might help. [/b]



What about moving the whole thing back a couple of weeks too?

zracre
11-17-2006, 09:46 PM
I'm all in for moving the PRO-it to Sunday. The ARRC should be everyone's first race of the weekend, it sucks to have a crappy car for the ARRC because it got smashed in the PRO (ask me how I know).

How about we cut the miata madness race and get the enduro back to 3 hours?

If we cut warmups from Saturday morning is there enough time for the pro-it race as the last race on Saturday?
[/b]

+1

Greg Amy
11-17-2006, 10:13 PM
...Dalylight savings time is not going to be in effect next year...[/b]

Correction: IS going to be in effect later next year. Da Prez signed the order moving Daylight Saving Time (note the lack of plural) effective 2007, ostensibly for energy savings; it goes into effect two weeks earlier, and is rescinded one week later, than in 2006.

Next year it goes into effect March 11 (vice 04.02.06) and is rescinded November 4th (vice 10.29.06), the Sunday traditionally PRIOR to the ARRC weekend...

Why this stuff is in my brain, I have no clue. - GA

IPRESS
11-18-2006, 12:21 AM
Butch, how about the same schedule as 06 for 07 with as you say only real hardships Sat. am.
I think it went pretty good.

tom91ita
11-18-2006, 08:40 AM
forgive the arrc newbie question, but there is not any "qualifying" required to attend the arrc is there?

i am looking at vacation planning for 2007 and am considering coming to run it or at least to spectate.

tia, tom

gran racing
11-18-2006, 09:20 AM
Nope, nothing to qualify differently than a normal regional weekend. If you have the option of racing versus watching, then race!

dj10
11-18-2006, 09:33 AM
Why this stuff is in my brain, I have no clue. - GA [/b]

I do brain surgery as well as gyn exams part time on the weekends, let me know if you want to setup some time, maybe I can help you with your problem. B)

dr. dj ;)

Butch Kummer
11-18-2006, 10:26 AM
Moving the date two weeks earlier is not an option because of proximity conflicts with the Petit (I can see going to Don Panoz and saying, "Don, we want to run the ARRC two weeks earlier so can you move your event with 90,000 spectators to a different weekend?" :P ), our desire to work with NCR on the Goblins Go and 13-Hour weekends, plus the strange fact that it's traditionally better weather in Atlanta in early November than late October (strange but true). We also have established the second weekend in November as our traditional date and I hate to mess with that.

The 2006 schedule worked "OK", but we need to add a run group for 2007 with the addition of ITR and the desire to move the TCC cars out of the ITS group. I'm also thinking ITO will increase in its first year as an Atlanta region class (we're already getting calls from people wanting to run with us) and they're a natural to run with the TCC cars. We're also getting more and more road racing stock cars, so I expect that group to remain around 40+ cars even though we move the ITO cars out. And as I said before, if you suggest dropping the Ground-Pounders race group (SPO, GTA, LMSC) the next words out of your mouth better be "And yes, I DO volunteer to organize the event next year."

We'll look into what might be happening with Daylight Saving Time being extended. I know back in Nixon's presidency (before many of you were born) they went to year-round DST as an energy measure and soon rescinded it because parents were concerned about their kid having to wait for the school buses in the dark. And while we'd gain an hour of sunlight at the end of the day, when would the track be light enough to start in the morning?

Lots of things to consider, and I/we appreciate your (continued) input...

Butch Kummer

dj10
11-18-2006, 10:47 AM
Moving the date two weeks earlier is not an option because of proximity conflicts with the Petit (I can see going to Don Panoz and saying, "Don, we want to run the ARRC two weeks earlier so can you move your event with 90,000 spectators to a different weekend?" :P ), our desire to work with NCR on the Goblins Go and 13-Hour weekends, plus the strange fact that it's traditionally better weather in Atlanta in early November than late October (strange but true). We also have established the second weekend in November as our traditional date and I hate to mess with that.

The 2006 schedule worked "OK", but we need to add a run group for 2007 with the addition of ITR and the desire to move the TCC cars out of the ITS group. I'm also thinking ITO will increase in its first year as an Atlanta region class (we're already getting calls from people wanting to run with us) and they're a natural to run with the TCC cars. We're also getting more and more road racing stock cars, so I expect that group to remain around 40+ cars even though we move the ITO cars out. And as I said before, if you suggest dropping the Ground-Pounders race group (SPO, GTA, LMSC) the next words out of your mouth better be "And yes, I DO volunteer to organize the event next year."

We'll look into what might be happening with Daylight Saving Time being extended. I know back in Nixon's presidency (before many of you were born) they went to year-round DST as an energy measure and soon rescinded it because parents were concerned about their kid having to wait for the school buses in the dark. And while we'd gain an hour of sunlight at the end of the day, when would the track be light enough to start in the morning?

Lots of things to consider, and I/we appreciate your (continued) input...

Butch Kummer [/b]



Butch, 2 weeks was just a thought, I could be 1 month as well, I was just trying to buy you some more light. It seem to me that if you are sticking with your date, you will definately need to run more races on Sun and some people will have to bite the bullet and be missing Monday @ work......what a shame. ;) I reality it is a small price to pay so that the workers & officials, God bless them all, aren't rushed.

Is there anyway we can get more registration stuff accomplished online so when drivers arrive all they have to do is sign a waiver and pick up their packets? Just a thought to keep the registration lines moving.

Butch Kummer
11-18-2006, 11:22 AM
Is there anyway we can get more registration stuff accomplished online so when drivers arrive all they have to do is sign a waiver and pick up their packets? Just a thought to keep the registration lines moving.
[/b]

The Registration process is constantly being reviewed/revised and the DLB system we went to this year has generally met with great reviews. We did have start-up issues with the Express window Thursday night because many of the people in the building were unfamiliar with our new folderless registration system, but things seemed to go fairly smoothly there after the first hour (and Registration opened an hour earlier than scheduled as well). I'm also not sure why we can only have one window for changes and payment, so we'll work on that for future events (not just the ARRC). It sure seems like crew and drivers could use the same Express Window and create another one for changes and payment, but there are probably legal ramifications that I'm not even aware of.

True story: About ten years ago I was involved in a "come to Jesus" meeting with a group of experienced (and opinionated) registrars as we tried to streamline the process. We couldn't even get those in the room to agree how the process worked NOW, much less what we could do to improve it. The only thing accomplished that night was we decided we needed a special folding table for the bins for the folders, then it took almost two hours to determine the dimensions of the table! Oh the joys of being in a leadership position... :D

BK

IPRESS
11-18-2006, 01:50 PM
Butch,
One of the things that I noticed that helps is having someone walk the waiting line directing people to the right windows. (I think you were doing some of that.) If nothing more it makes the line waiting a little easier. One thing that I have suggested for our Region (TX) to try is maybe factoring a buck or so into the entry (or getting it sponsored) and having some refreshments and snacks setup by the registration station. Myself, I probably talk to more different folks at registration than almost any other time of the weekend. That way you turn what some people look at as sort of a pain into a social kickoff for the weekend. It sort of turns registration into a semi cocktail party, and from my experiences folks in Georgia know a lot about holding those!

RSTPerformance
11-19-2006, 01:24 AM
Butch...

Not sure how I feel about this, but it is a thought... I know that Thursday has always been a "track test day" but what about renting the track for the extra day and adding it as another day in the schedule? Have an shorter practice session thursday followed by a qualifying session for ALL the race groups including the Enduro, and the Pro-IT race, Miata races etc. Then Friday can be a second qualifying session for the ARRC races in the AM and the afternoon could be filled with the normal Pro-IT races and possibly the Miata madness. Saturday could be the quick start of the day hardship practice (for those that get permissio0n) followed by ARRC ONLY races. Sunday could be an entire second day of "extra" races that followed once again after a morning hardship that you needed permission for.

Raymond

Mac-

great idea!!!! People might actually just hang out a registration for a few hours even after they have registered, and or before they have. Cook up some burgers also and I am sure everyone will be happy after the long tows!!!

tom_sprecher
11-19-2006, 08:49 AM
Butch,

After the recent power shift in congress you may be able to get Bush to sign a new order to push the end of DST back yet another week. After all, he is going to have to start being nice to people too. :D

Hope to see you at the meeting.

Butch Kummer
11-22-2006, 11:09 AM
I don't know who the idiot was that called for a meeting in Atlanta at 7:00 on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, but he needs to have his head examined! You guys thought traffic at the ARRC was busy, GA 400 and I-285 was a damn zoo last night! Oh wait, it was MY meeting... :wacko:

Current plan for 2007:

Dates will be Nov. 8-11.

Test day on Thursday - it's a major money-maker for Road Atlanta and they won't give it up. Having snacks and beverages at Registration that evening is an excellent idea.

Nine groups on Friday, 20 minute qualifier followed by a 15-minute qualifier (all but Pro-IT), followed by the Pro-IT race.

"True" hardship warm-up lap on Saturday morning - requires a hall pass from the Chief Steward and will be ONE LAP only (enter track at Turn 1, enter pits at Turn 11). Two groups - open and closed - and it's just to make sure the car steers and stops after rebuilding it Friday night.

Eight ARRC Championship races starting at 8:15 Saturday. Not necessarily in this order, but current thinking on the groupings is:

ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
ITA, IT7
ITR, ITS
ASR, CF, CFC, CS2, FS, FSC*, F1000*
ITO, TCC, ST*
SPO, GTA, LMSC, BP*
SPU, ITT, SRX, GTP, ITU, DP*

* - new National classes that will not be invited to the 2007 Runoffs

Obviously the groupings could change based on pre-entries, but this is what we're thinking right now.

Enduro qualifying Sunday morning, race in afternoon. Length will be at least two hours, but is dependent on what else we run on Sunday (a number of options being explored right now).

The other two big changes from 2006 is that (1) we will NOT accept new entries at the window and (2) you'll need to pay your fees prior to showing up. Atlanta Region does not deposit checks until after the event and refunds PayPal for no-shows with absolutely no questions asked, so there's NO reason not to sign up if you think there's even the slightest chance you'll be coming. Ends up we've been killing our Registrars, particularly with last minute entries and money reconciliation, and this will help spread that work load out over a month or so. We also anticipate opening on-line registration right after our Labor Day event at Nashville, with a deadline of Oct. 15 if you want to be listed in the "Spectator Guide" (which will be much improved in 2007).

Looking forward to seeing y'all there...

Butch Kummer
2007 ARRC Committee Chairman

itracer
11-22-2006, 11:33 AM
ITB, ITC
[/b]

I like this grouping. I will try to plan a season that ends in GA next year :cavallo:

lateapex911
11-22-2006, 11:39 AM
Looks great! I'm impressed with the level of consideration given to the inputs we provided.

tom_sprecher
11-22-2006, 11:47 AM
Nice job and the new changes make a lot of sense.

I thought about going last night but after hearing the nasty traffic reports starting at about 3 I decided against it. :wacko: No wonder I can't get through to anybody today.

CaptainWho
11-22-2006, 12:37 PM
If we're not driving next year, it's almost certain that I'll be doing (helping with) the event photography for Atlanta Region again. In that case, if anyone is interested, I'd like to try to get some "ImprovedTouring.com at the ARRC" photos, both on track and off. Maybe we could work out some sort of recognition symbol for paddock spaces and cars so I can tell who you are? Peter Keane had one of the older ImprovedTouring.com decals on his podium-finishing ITB car this year, but I only noticed it by accident as I was dodging showers of champagne from the podium.

Anubis
11-22-2006, 07:04 PM
dj10, its rather difficult to say just move it X weeks up the schedule. We got a SEDIV schedule to play around with and frankly after working 3-5 days after Petit I don't want to see Road Atlanta for a few weeks. The time away is incredibly necessary for many workers who enjoy both events. Then of course you have a Road Atlanta schedule to play with, if they could run the track 365 days/year they would but 275 is not unheard of.

Maybe a 3rd tiltbed and wrecker could be brought in for Saturday, it will help when we have 12 pickups(or more) because folks feel like hittin everything but the pace car.



I don't know who the idiot was that called for a meeting in Atlanta at 7:00 on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, but he needs to have his head examined! You guys thought traffic at the ARRC was busy, GA 400 and I-285 was a damn zoo last night! Oh wait, it was MY meeting... :wacko:
[/b]

Pffft, if you want real fun try going from 285/75 fustercluck upto Gwinnett for a hockey game at 4 in the afternoon on Friday. I did that once... 3 years ago. Never again... out of the area by 2. :happy204:

gran racing
11-22-2006, 08:08 PM
Jason, do it! I said that I'd only go one year as it is a long drive from CT but that changed. It is worth it. The track is awesome and the event is a blast. The stories (memories) alone a worth it.

Jake - I shouldn't have missed your "corner weighting" exercise with blocks of wood and such.

Sandy
11-24-2006, 08:16 AM
Give us some input on the evening socials. Friday we presented the 2006 PRO IT awards, and I really like this since most of the guys are there. Saturday we presented the ARRC awards and it was very unorganized, but we promise this won't happen next year. In previous years we had a band on Friday and a worker appreciation gift presentation. The worker appreciation was moved to our July event and the band was deleted due to the small crowd that stayed for the music and cost.
We will continue the dinners and the PRO IT presentation. Do you have thoughts, comments, or suggestions on presentation of ARRC awards, entertainments, or something entirely different??

RSTPerformance
11-24-2006, 12:33 PM
Give us some input on the evening socials. Friday we presented the 2006 PRO IT awards, and I really like this since most of the guys are there. Saturday we presented the ARRC awards and it was very unorganized, but we promise this won't happen next year. In previous years we had a band on Friday and a worker appreciation gift presentation. The worker appreciation was moved to our July event and the band was deleted due to the small crowd that stayed for the music and cost.
We will continue the dinners and the PRO IT presentation. Do you have thoughts, comments, or suggestions on presentation of ARRC awards, entertainments, or something entirely different??
[/b]

I hate to say this but ask Dave and others that have been to "NASA" events, especially the ones that go to that Summit Point event.... I think that they might have a better grip on how to through a party :unsure:

If you want a band, wich I fully support it, but it needs to be one that (no offence) is a little more hip on the younger crowd, not saying rap, but at least new age rock and roll, and or in the south you may be able to get away with possibly having some new age country. The bands that I have sceen at past ARRC races are great for those that are interested in thier music, but I think that it caters to a small group of people.

Just an idea... but how about instead of a band, maybe you can get someone to volunteer and put together a video from this years arrc, showing in-car from many if not all the contenders and any "out of car" video that someone may have taken. Put it up with an expensive projector and some good speakers on a 8' of bigger screen...

Also for the dinner on Friday night or Saturday night make it more of a banquette style... charge $5.00 (free for workers) in advance to help cover the cost.

Raymond

JLawton
11-24-2006, 02:24 PM
We were all looking forward to going to the dinner Friday night. We finished up working on the cars, headed over, just in time to see them taking all the food away :( !! Not sure what time that was (7:00-7:30??) but it would be great if it could go a little later.

Thanks for asking for input!! :023: Can't wait until next year!!

Chris Wire
11-24-2006, 04:38 PM
I don't want to put anyone's nose out of joint, but why does Atlanta region feel the need to inject a region-only series in to what it generally more of a national-appeal race weekend? It seems to cause more problems than it solves. With schedule constraints already evident and more cars coming with new/growing classes, it seems logical that Pro-IT would be the race to do away with.

It's also not fair to the point-chasing Pro-IT competitors to have to deal with out of towners invading their race on Friday because a) they couldn't make the Thursday test day, or B) they wanted even more track time just because they could.

My suggestion would be to ditch the Pro-IT, conclude the points chase after the prior ATL region event, and keep the ARRC on a path of broader appeal, which is how I view it. It may technically still be a 'regional' event, but with the influx of non-region cars, this is certainly not your typical regional.

ARRC sprint races should continue to be the focus of the weekend, but I would like to see a little less trying to be "everything to everyone", with all the extraneous races; simplify the Sunday schedule and get the enduro back to 3 hours or more.

I'm looking forward to another wonderful ARRC weekend.

Andy Bettencourt
11-24-2006, 06:32 PM
I don't want to put anyone's nose out of joint, but why does Atlanta region feel the need to inject a region-only series in to what it generally more of a national-appeal race weekend? [/b]

Because it's not a National Championship with a Regional-flavor - it's a Regional Race with a National flavor.

lateapex911
11-24-2006, 06:45 PM
It's also not fair to the point-chasing Pro-IT competitors to have to deal with out of towners invading their race on Friday because a) they couldn't make the Thursday test day, or B) they wanted even more track time just because they could.

[/b]

I can see your point, but I differ.

First, dealing with non contenders is a curse of all points leaders in any series. They might be from out of town or just not on the pace...or a guy who runs half the series. Spoilers come in all shapes and sizes, and it's part of the game.

Secondly, for the long-towers, the PRo IT helps equalize the advantage that local drivers with thousands of miles at the track have, and for me, it's one of the factors that makes the tow worth it. I might, or might not do the Pro IT race, depending on circumstances, but if it wasn't available, I'd think twice about attending. I did it this year, and the lap time was very important, and it sure helped the weekends finances as well.

Remember, if I understand correctly, it's the FIRST race of the year-long series, so it's role is somewhat less important than it would be if it were the last race.

tom_sprecher
11-25-2006, 09:02 AM
I don't know if it is this way at tracks across the nation but if you do not show up on time for the dinner, worker party, etc. there is a real good chance you'll go hungry. :(

Typically, 30 mins. after the conclusion of racing a line forms and from my experience it does not look like anyone in it has ever skipped a meal. I can understand after working all day wanting to eat and retire, but it usually starts at 5:00 or 5:30 which is a little early to be eating dinner for most folks, except the elderly. :P

It's annoying but probably unavoidable unless the event is held at a restaurant. :birra:

In any case, to avoid it RTFS.

IPRESS
11-25-2006, 11:28 AM
Guys, From my time running regionals in several parts of the country, I think the ARRC way of having lots of races brings in the largest number of racers. To put on the type show Atl. Region produces, you need customers and lots of them. I know I could not justify towing from as far as I am for just the ARRC sprint. Just as Jake said the Pro IT on Friday gives you a very good option to get to know RAtlanta again. In my case it gives the guy who will co drive in the enduro / crew for me a chance at a sprint race. As ARRC is probably the ender for most peoples season, cutting expenses (ie splitting track time) by sharing your car makes it squeeze into a budget that probably is already over extended. I know some cars just run the Pro IT, some just the ARRC sprints, and some just the Enduro, but together they make a great event. I am sure some efforts are just pointed towards the sprints, but by having more people racing it gives the winners more peole to clap for them.

Sandy
11-26-2006, 08:14 AM
Your comments/thoughts are greatly appreciated.

As for the PRO IT, it doesn't affect locals running the series for points, since to win championship money 4 races are required. It puts lots of money into the championship fund and contributes to the profitability of the event. Finally, it provides extra track time for out of towners.

The dinners are very expensive. Those will continue because the event is profitable and our race staff deserves a meal before they head home for another early morning. How about the entertainment? There was one comment on aiming toward a younger crowd and providing racing videos. Any other thoughts??

What about trophies? The ARRC trophies are expensive too. What about going to just the medals? We did this for the SCCA Enterprises class this year, as a special request.

I know, the reason you really came was to race. It really is a fun event.

RSTPerformance
11-26-2006, 01:38 PM
What about trophies? The ARRC trophies are expensive too. What about going to just the medals? We did this for the SCCA Enterprises class this year, as a special request.

I know, the reason you really came was to race. It really is a fun event.
[/b]

DON'T CHANGE THE TROPHIES!!!! Those trophies are some of the best racing has to offer. Keep them the same forever... It is an honor and a tradition to get that trophie from the ARRC. While all else changes keep at least that the same. It might not seem that important especially to those who only come to race and not win, but it does hold some tradition worth holding on to.

Raymond

OTLimit
11-29-2006, 04:17 PM
Do NOT change the trophies. I can tell you that Chris is very proud of his ARRC trophies, and they go on the wall next to some other important trophies and my dog show pictures of special wins. In fact, I am very happy to tell people that the ARRC trophies that we have are much nicer then the Runoffs trophies/medals that he has.

Tom Donnelly
12-04-2006, 12:49 PM
I'm gonna catch some flak for this but..

How about moving ITR in with the ground-pounders
and ITA, IT7 and ITS together (this worked well in the past)


ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
IT7, ITA,ITS
Open-wheel (they want to split up but the numbers just aren't there)
TCC, ITO
Ground-pounders and ITR
Little stuff (SPU, ITU, ITT, etc.)

Tom

seckerich
12-04-2006, 02:06 PM
I'm gonna catch some flak for this but..

How about moving ITR in with the ground-pounders
and ITA, IT7 and ITS together (this worked well in the past)
ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
IT7, ITA,ITS
Open-wheel (they want to split up but the numbers just aren't there)
TCC, ITO
Ground-pounders and ITR
Little stuff (SPU, ITU, ITT, etc.)

Tom
[/b]
See pictures from Sebring ITS/SPO crash for answer to that idea. Stupid and dangerous for test day or race. 50 - 70 mph speed difference in places.

Tom Donnelly
12-05-2006, 04:20 PM
"See pictures from Sebring ITS/SPO crash for answer to that idea. Stupid and dangerous for test day or race. 50 - 70 mph speed difference in places"

Thats exactly my point. ITS and ITA haven't been too far off the mark at Road Atlanta. In fact, except for the top few, they've been really close. ITR seems to be a whole different ballgame to me. I've seen AS and ITS on the track at the same time and it was a mess too. Similar lap times but different speeds and braking zones, so different I heard remarks like "Why do they (AS) stop in turn 7?" Other races in the past where T2 and SPO / SPU were grouped with ITS caused more than a fair share of bashing as well.

Maybe I'm wrong but ITR is more on the level of a WC car and won't be as similar to ITS as ITA is currently.

But then I think SM and IT7 need their own group too.

Tom

Butch Kummer
12-05-2006, 05:06 PM
From back at post #32:

= = = = = = =

Eight ARRC Championship races starting at 8:15 Saturday. Not necessarily in this order, but current thinking on the groupings is:

ASM, SSM
ITB, ITC
ITA, IT7
ITR, ITS
ASR, CF, CFC, CS2, FS, FSC*, F1000*
ITO, TCC, ST*
SPO, GTA, LMSC, BP*
SPU, ITT, SRX, GTP, ITU, DP*

* - new National classes that will not be invited to the 2007 Runoffs

Obviously the groupings could change based on pre-entries, but this is what we're thinking right now.

= = = = = = =

My guess is that ITR on average will only be a couple of seconds faster than ITS, but the more important thing is they weigh about the same. Yes we'll still have speed-challenged ITR cars that can screw up the ITS race, but I predict it will have less impact (pun intended) than the TTC/ITS match-up did in 2006. As Steve has suggested, putting the ITR cars in with the Big Iron introduces a massive speed differential.

We can always adjust when we see the how the ITR cars actually run, but I'm thinking they'll be slower than the WC GT cars that we're currently running in ITO (or maybe BP?). The WC Touring cars are in ITU, which runs with the Little Stuff.

BTW - I haven't posted it since Andy first asked how we'd feel about an IT Festival at Mid-Ohio in August, but I'll repeat we'd work with the organizers to promote that event as the second jewel in the "IT Triple Crown" - Divisional Champion, Festival Champion, ARRC Champion.

Butch Kummer
2007 ARRC Committee Chairman

CaptainWho
12-05-2006, 05:45 PM
But then I think SM and IT7 need their own group too.[/b]


Oh dear God no! If IT7 ends up running with SM with any regularity, I'm selling the IT7 car.

RSTPerformance
12-05-2006, 06:01 PM
well... the RX-7's guys/gals want to be in ITB right... How about this for an idea... add the weight and reduce the wheel sizes on the RX-7 class to be in line with what RX-7 drivers feel it should be if it were in ITB and then run with all of us crazy ITB/ITC guys/gals!!! I would find it interesting to see how it stacked up, and who knows, mabe someday the RX-7 would find a home in ITB ;)

Just a thought;

Raymond

CaptainWho
12-05-2006, 08:10 PM
well... the RX-7's guys/gals want to be in ITB right... How about this for an idea... add the weight and reduce the wheel sizes on the RX-7 class to be in line with what RX-7 drivers feel it should be if it were in ITB and then run with all of us crazy ITB/ITC guys/gals!!! I would find it interesting to see how it stacked up, and who knows, mabe someday the RX-7 would find a home in ITB ;)
[/b]

That'd be cool with me. We never bought upsized wheels/tires after that rule change, and we couldn't make 2280# with an air chisel and half a pound of C4.

I guess we could switch the IT7 car to ITA instead of selling it. We swap back and forth anyway, depending on whether we remembered the Toyos when packing up for the race. :D

dj10
12-06-2006, 11:30 AM
From back at post #32:

BTW - I haven't posted it since Andy first asked how we'd feel about an IT Festival at Mid-Ohio in August, but I'll repeat we'd work with the organizers to promote that event as the second jewel in the "IT Triple Crown" - Divisional Champion, Festival Champion, ARRC Champion.
Butch Kummer
2007 ARRC Committee Chairman
[/b]

Butch, I agree with this strategy since you will be the finality to the racing season. There is no reason why these two events can't compliment each other. As a ITR driver I'm looking to both events in 07. By then you will know what ITR's with be turning @ RA.

NutDriverRighty
12-06-2006, 01:38 PM
With my personal 200+lb ballast and a car that's already overweight, I'd LOVE to see the 1st gen Rx7 go to ITB.

Lefty, see your e-mail and please respond about the BG.

Righty

cmaclean
12-07-2006, 11:13 AM
From a Miata drivers perspective, while the Miata Madness was a great idea, there was so much Miata racing possible that weekend, most people simply skipped the Madness race. With the Pro-IT, ARRC and Enduro that's enough for most folks. I think most people planning on running the Enduro didn't want to risk their $350 by running a race a couple of hours earlier.

I would be MORE than happy with Pro-IT, ARRC and Enduro in the future. I have to admit I would like the Pro-IT to remain on Friday. That way there's one race per day for pretty much everyone in IT if they want it. The ground-pounders etc. could do a feature race on Sunday in place of the Madness race since they don't get the track time of the IT crowd.

Thanks for soliciting input!

Andy Bettencourt
12-07-2006, 11:19 AM
The groupings the ARRC ran for IT were perfect IMHO. ITS with ITA and ITB with ITC is just asking for trouble. Remember, if this is going to be a championship quality race, there needs to be clear-ish track. MO is big enough so that it minimizes this issue with such power differential.

dazzlesa
12-07-2006, 12:14 PM
???????????? B was with C at the arrc

Andy Bettencourt
12-07-2006, 02:33 PM
Whoops - I meant S and A...I think B and C should be split as well.

greendot
12-16-2006, 09:12 AM
We were all looking forward to going to the dinner Friday night. We finished up working on the cars, headed over, just in time to see them taking all the food away :( !! Not sure what time that was (7:00-7:30??) but it would be great if it could go a little later.

[/b]

Ditto.