I think my fuel pump died

[Stan]

One day my '84 GTI ITB was running great - the next it wouldn't start. I added gas to make sure I hadn't run it out, but there is still no fuel reaching the filter. I can hear the solenoid opening and closing when I switch the key on and off, but no sound from the fuel pump. I'm 85% deaf, but my wife says she can't hear it either, even when kneeled down next to the pump. Should a person with normal hearing be able to hear the pump attempting to pressurize the line? I jumpered the fuel pump relay with no change, and I am getting ~11 volts at the pump terminals. Anybody got any suggestions? I'd like to bench test the pump...anybody ever done this? If so, how did you go about it?

Thanks in advance!

Stan :D

[JamesB]

Was it pretty loud before it refused to start? These pumps do go eventually, the first on in my ITB Golf sounded like a model airplane taking off. But it turned out it was just int he process of ceasing its berings. The new one I hear pressure up every time I turn the key and you can feel it vibrate. So if your getting power to the pump and its not presurizing I would have to say yes its the pump. If you are going to bench test it you can do so quickly dry but dont run it for more then a few seconds that way or you could cause bearing damage.

[Stan]

Thanks James! I don't recall being able to hear of feel the pump before, so I can't say if it sounded loud or not. In any case, I will remove the pump and test it with jumper cables before tossing it. Any recommendations for inexpensive replacement sources?

Thanks! Stan

[Bill Miller]

Stan,

Before you run out and put a new pump in it, make sure it's not the relay that's causing the problem. Those cars are notorious for leaking, and I've pulled relays out and actually dumped water out of them!! :119: :angry:

The easy way to test the relay is to make a jumper wire, pull the relay, and jump the switched terminals. You'll want to jump terminal 15 to terminal 1. If that works, it's a bad relay, if not, it's probably the fuel pump. They do die, and it's usually pretty sudden. New ones are pricey, but you can usually find used ones for $50 - $75. If it's a bad relay, I have a couple extra, and could part w/ one.

[JamesB]

I jumpered the fuel pump relay with no change, and I am getting ~11 volts at the pump terminals. Anybody got any suggestions? I'd like to bench test the pump...anybody ever done this? If so, how did you go about it?

Thanks in advance!

Stan :D
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Bill he tried that already. thats why I said bench test away but I think its dead.

[Bill Miller]

Bill he tried that already. thats why I said bench test away but I think its dead.
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My bad. Not sure how I missed that. Given all that, it's probably toast.

[Stan]

Thanks guys! I'll remove and bench test the pump to make sure...then start haunting ebay, I guess! :024:

Stan

[JamesB]

I know its not a cheap unit. But outside of fleabay I have used www.parts4vws.com 155.00, www.germanautoparts.com 170, or www.worldimpex.com 167.

www.performance-cafe.com has it for 140.

171906091A is the fuel pump VAG part number. good luck.

[Dave Zaslow]

There is one other thing to check.

There is a connection between the fuel pump relay circuit and the coil. If that wire has come adrift, no power to the relay and no fuel. It's happened to me.

The pump is lubricated by the fuel. If it runs on the bench, shut it off immediatly. The tolerances are so tight it will seize.

DZ

[Bill Miller]

There is one other thing to check.

There is a connection between the fuel pump relay circuit and the coil. If that wire has come adrift, no power to the relay and no fuel. It's happened to me.

The pump is lubricated by the fuel. If it runs on the bench, shut it off immediatly. The tolerances are so tight it will seize.

DZ
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Dave,

I believe jumping terminals 1 and 15 on the fuse panel (where the relay plugs in) gets around the need for the signal from the coil (terminal 31 IIRC).

And I agree, if the pump runs on the bench, don't run it dry more than a couple of seconds (if that long).

[JamesB]

If it is dead or ceased I recomend a new fuel filter too. you should have seen the metal in my filter after my pump wentt.

[Ryan Williams]

http://members.aol.com/wabbitracing/images/fuelpumptester%20005.jpg

http://members.aol.com/wabbitracing/images/badfuelpump001.jpg

Most likely the carbon brushes have worn out, or the armature is worn. Another possibility is that some rust/debris from the gas tank has jammed the eccentric/rollers. Good luck, Ryan.

[Bill Miller]

Leave it to Dr. Ryan to come up w/ an elegant solution. Nicely done! :023: :smilie_pokal:

[racer_tim]

Stan, if you want, come by and borrow the pump from my GTI and test it to make sure that's the problem. I'm in Belmont. E-mail is in my signature.

I'm going to the SFR membership meeting on Saturday, but we're not going to the banquet.

Let me if that works for you.

BTW, my GTI started out life as an 1981 "S" model Wabbit, but I think the pumps are the same. Most everything else is.

I'll also check to see if I a spare one lying around.

Here is a pic

http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/2002/sump-tank-1.jpg

[Stan]

Thanks guys...I really appreciate the help! :cavallo:

I dropped the pump off its mounts and left the fuel lines hooked up so it could wet flow. I then supplied 12vdc at 2 amps directly to the poles. The pump make a steady buzzing tone (not loud like a Holley "Red Pump"). Is that what it should do?

Thanks again! Stan

[racer_tim]

That sounds like the pump is working, so I'd check the relay.

Also, did you check the voltage on the hot lead, and with the pump grounded? Could be the ground wire to the pump that is broken, or frayed.

[Stan]

With the relay in place I am seeing 11.3 vdc at the positive lead when the ignition is switched on (battery at 12.5 volts). Voltage drops back to zero within a couple of seconds. With the lead attached to the pump I get 10.2 vdc for a few seconds before dropping to zero. The pump does not come on, though I can hear the solenoid up in the engine bay cycling. Should the voltage stay up or should it drop back down to zero?

I searched the boxes of spares that came with the car and there is a spare used solenoid and pump...should'a looked there first! :bash_1_:

The spare pump makes a completely different sound...more like a normal cycling sound. I'll swap it in and see what it does.

Thanks! Stan

PS - Tim, you have email...

[Stan]

Woo hoo...it lives! :happy204:

Swapped in the spare pump and the beast fired right up.

Ryan, I am going to take the old pump apart to see if I can rejuvenate it. I see the exit end is crimped - I'll push those crimps out and try to slide the guts out. Any tricks to taking apart?

Thanks! Stan

[JimLill]

I know its not a cheap unit. But outside of fleabay I have used www.parts4vws.com 155.00, www.germanautoparts.com 170, or www.worldimpex.com 167.

www.performance-cafe.com has it for 140.

171906091A is the fuel pump VAG part number. good luck.
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$143 http://store.impartsol.com/fuelpumpbosch2.html