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Greg Amy
11-15-2006, 09:32 AM
I'm cross-posting this from another forum, as I feel it's important to get this out... - GA


Allow me some leeway here for a quick explanation. First time I heard the rumors I was amused; second time it was a coincidence. I've now heard something similar from three different sources so I'd like to clear the air before this gains some legs and gets out of control.

I've heard various iterations that there's some rumors and innuendo floating around in regards to the time involved in the tech process and some misunderstandings, some caused by me. The primary focus seems to be on the legality of the engine, started mostly due to the time involved for the tear-down and measurements, the people surrounding the car and looking concerned, and the time it took Tech to stir the numbers around.

The extended period we spent in in Tech (roughly 4-5 hours) was primarily two-fold: one, it takes a while to get the head off the car. Manifolds and cams have to come out first and you've got to make sure to carefully remove the gears so you don't lose timing on the bottom end (otherwise the whole front and bottom of the engine has to come apart). That was probably a good half or more of the time involved.

Second, both we and the Atlanta Region tech inspectors were careful about getting accurate measurements. Matt Kessler builds stuff to the edge of the cliff so all measurements were RIGHT THERE. The Tech guys wanted to measure several times, since handheld tools have built-in accuracy tolerances. Further, once they had their "official" numbers they allowed Matt to remeasure with their tools so there would be no room for arguments and appeals. Everyone's measurements agreed and we were/are completely satisfied with their measurement techniques.

In addition, there were a lot of people milling around, in many cases getting in the way and slowing things down. Unlike the times when we were pulled apart in the "old skool" Valvoline Runoffs, there was no one managing the crowd and controlling who had access to the tech inspection area. Honestly, we really didn't care: we had nothing to hide and as long as people didn't get in the way we were OK with folks looking on, through, and under the car and engine. There were a few times where I even saw competitors' crew members leaning over our guys watching the measurement process. Again, no problem, we welcome the oversight but in a few cases it slowed things down.

However, the part that really created tension and confusion was my fault. When Tech was crunching the numbers inside the room Matt came to me and told me the cc measurement on the head didn't "seem right"; he was sincerely concerned that he had mis-measured his work and that the head cc was too small, thus we had too much compression. Having those tech guys in the office for 45 minutes while we all milled around looking nervous only seemed to confirm our fears, to the point that I even walked over to Joe Moser and Ruck's crew to tell them that we believed we had screwed up on the engine build. Given this, I told them, it was purely our own fault and should we be found illegal I offered them my sincere apologies.

Note this was BEFORE the official word had come back.

So, when the tech guys re-emerged not more than 15 minutes later and told us we were all legal and free to go, even WE were surprised! I'm sure the relief and surprise on our faces was obvious.

We figured out the full story once we got home and re-measured everything and went back through our build notes. Remember that we had built a new engine specifically for the ARRC? Well, we ran out of time and never installed that new engine; it sat in the back of the van the whole week. However, we had those numbers in our heads for that build, and those numbers did not match what they measured on the ARRC race engine; the head cc that they measured was lower than what we expected (and what that new engine was built to). It turns out that we mis-calculated the compression ratio on that NEW engine, to the low side; the compression ratio on the replacement engine is apparently a few tenths TOO LOW. Thus when we got the head cc reading from Tech on the race engine, and it was smaller than the one in the engine we had just built, we assumed the new build was accurate and that we had screwed up on the engine we used for the ARRC (and the prior year); in point of fact it was the other way around.

Ironically, had we installed the replacement engine we would have been TOO LOW on compression... So, rest assured the race engine was fully legal. We've re-verified that the bore and stroke were all within specs, and the compression ratio calculation using measured volumes put us within the legal 10:1. It's RIGHT THERE, and completely, totally, 100% legal.

The stressful part for me personally was that given it was the same engine I had raced on all year, I spent 45 minutes worrying how I was going to reasonably explain such a stupid oversight to all my worthy competitors, present company included. Fortunately, it turns out everything was fine.

Trust me, my heart can't take too much more of that!!

So, let the normal rumor mill run its course, but please don't let this experience imply anything other than what it was...

Greg

Bill Miller
11-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Class act Greg! :happy204: :023:

zracre
11-15-2006, 11:30 AM
Nice...good to see a full explanation and detail! the car was hooked up and you were the class of the field!

StephenB
11-15-2006, 11:31 AM
Greg,

I for one have learned something from your experience as I am an outsider looking on (and sometimes even looking up to you)

I don't think I would ever change my engine for the "Big Show" unless I had some type of failure previously, especially wih your success in the year. If you had changed the engine and done well or even done poorly it wouldn't have mattered. In both situations it would have created rumers as your previous engine prooved already to be worthy to go to the ARRC. The entire year you were fast, fast enough to beat track records that were already unabtainable according to some! So if you had changed the engine I think people would have thought you did it not to go faster but so that you wouldn't be caught for something. I'm glad that you ran out of time to install the new engine, I'm glad that you made it through another regions tech, I'm glad that you finished first and proved that oddballs do win! And by oddball I mean the car not you, well ok you are a little to! :)

Stephen

PS: If anything you have stopped all rumors. The only thing anyone can say is that you had an awesome season, you did your homework. You showed up, Kicked ASS, and you won Legit! Now the rest of us have more homework to do!

Doc Bro
11-15-2006, 11:32 AM
I watched the whole deal go down, and it is EXACTLY as described.

Some observations from a first time ARRC attendee.

1. What a great track!!!
2. The level of competition was excellent and the on-track respect was extremely obvious.
3. That NX is Very impressive.


Now in regards to tech and the process. I watched most of the process. (I missed the beginning because I was watching another race). When I got there the head wasn't off yet (only the exhaust). Their were a bunch of guys helping and twice as many getting in the way (me included). NO ONE lost their cool, in fact it was a very relaxed atmosphere. The other competitors were cool too. It seemed everyone who KNEW they had a chance to win came VERY prepared to pass a tech inspection. In fact I got the feeling that it was welcomed.

The tech insectors were very nice, and professional too. I got the feeling that they weren't trying to ruin anyone (no washer bottle stuff). That may have been because we were nice to them, but I doubt it, I just think they were nice. They all seemed quite knowledgeable. I watched the whole head CC process with my Dad (who didn't have any comments about the thoroughness or accuracy). We were convinced.

Now in regards to the time in tech, my opinions are:

1. Too many people in the way (I am thankful though, as I learned a lot and enjoyed the process)
2. Too many chefs and not enough soup stirrers
3. Tech was too busy. They had a MESS (10?) of cars in tech, all in various states of inspection.
4. I don't think anyone was particularly strong with a computer in the tech shed. (Seasoned tech inspectors) I think they all had a crack at doing the math long hand, and then letting the next guy do it etc. One tech inspector said the computer was chugging along but I'm not sure if I bought it. I am by no means questioning them or the process but I do think they were doing it the old tried and true way.
5. No one was in a hurry!!


I simply think Matt Kessler freaked himself out. I think Greg's anxiety came with the race. When Greg was done with the race I think Matt's anxiety took over. Matt got nervous because it was taking a while and I think that got Greg listening to him. Greg went to talk to Ruck's team (which I was very impressed with) prematurely. And, I think that's where things were opened for rumors to surface.

I feel very comfortable with Greg's integrity. I think the motor, the car, the mechanic and the driver are all spot on. I'm 100% convinced. After watching the race it was obvious Greg brought his A game. Everything was accounted for (except the new motor (good thing)). They were prepared. I learned a lot this weekend, watching these guys raised my game.

The boy drove a GREAT race.

R


DSICLAIMER:
( I recieve no royalties or sponsorship money from Greg Amy, Matt Kessler or any SEDiv tech inspectors!!)

tom91ita
11-15-2006, 11:50 AM
DSICLAIMER:
( I recieve no royalties or sponsorship money from Greg Amy, Matt Kessler or any SEDiv tech inspectors!!)
[/b]

soooo..... what did you receive :lol:

i don't know greg but i do know kevin ruck. kevin's confirmation in the other forum that everything was as greg described above is enough for me.

hail to the victors! i'll have to sharpen the pencil and try to find a way to go next year. i've enjoyed reading on the sidelines but it sure makes me wish i was there.

tom

gran racing
11-15-2006, 01:26 PM
If you think it took a while to tear Greg's car down, I can only imagine what would be said about me if I ever get to tear mine apart. LOL I teased Greg about how long it would take me to figure how to get everything apart, no less back together.

RSTPerformance
11-15-2006, 01:45 PM
If you think it took a while to tear Greg's car down, I can only imagine what would be said about me if I ever get to tear mine apart. LOL I teased Greg about how long it would take me to figure how to get everything apart, no less back together.
[/b]


Dave... I think I am giong to vote for a time limit... then maybe I will be able to beat ya in the shed!!!

lol


Greg- right or wrong, I ditto stephens remarks!!! I am more familiar with ITB so I comment on an observation from this years ARRC that has "changed me." Micheale Reese has always recieved a lot of rumors in rumorville, and a few years back he ran the ARRC, but seamed to be much slower than he was up here in the Northeast, for him I am sure that only helped stirr rumors. With this years outstanding performance by him, I know that those rumors will certainly dwindle for many, including myself. To run up front with a VW at ARRC IMO is a top notch effort for anyone, and I doubt he or anyone else would knowingly go and race up front with a knowingly illigal car.


Raymond "Are Panties a legal weight reduction for men?" Blethen

R2 Racing
11-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Greg went to talk to Ruck's team (which I was very impressed with) prematurely. And, I think that's where things were opened for rumors to surface.[/b]
That kind of makes me sound bad, in a way. For the record, no one from my camp started any rumors. When people asked, we just reitterated what we saw and nothing more; which was exactly what Greg posted above.

Doc Bro
11-16-2006, 08:00 AM
That kind of makes me sound bad, in a way. For the record, no one from my camp started any rumors. When people asked, we just reitterated what we saw and nothing more; which was exactly what Greg posted above.
[/b]


No Kevin, don't feel that way. You guys were very professional. I think when others heard (via phone and the web) that Greg had spoken to you and the content of the conversation, it allowed room for interpretation of the intentions. Anyone who was there knew what was up, totally. In no way did I mean to implicate you or Moser or your teams...I just didn't feel like typing a book!

R

BobsAuto
11-16-2006, 07:02 PM
Micheale Reese has always recieved a lot of rumors in rumorville, and a few years back he ran the ARRC, but seamed to be much slower than he was up here in the Northeast, for him I am sure that only helped stirr rumors. With this years outstanding performance by him, I know that those rumors will certainly dwindle for many, including myself. To run up front with a VW at ARRC IMO is a top notch effort for anyone, and I doubt he or anyone else would knowingly go and race up front with a knowingly illigal car.
Raymond "Are Panties a legal weight reduction for men?" Blethen
[/b]

I must agree with Raymond on the Michael Reese thing. I knew Mike back when he started and he really started on the wrong foot. But with patience and guidance from his competitors, I have seen him grown into a very responsible, up front, legal driver. I have seen a more relaxed man and I have to give him all the credit in the world. He's done well.

BTW, Greg, I hear that there may be a naughty nightie party up here in Loudon soon. What color thongs would you like? I could try to get checkered flag ones if you want.... :D

backformore
11-16-2006, 07:50 PM
Just to add another perspective. I was involved in the tear down of the winning ASM car. We were in the tech shed along with Greg and the other ITA cars (and several others as the hours wore on). This is the first major post race tech I've been involved in and it was quite eye opening.

Primarily I wanted to reiterate a few things. Tech took a loooooong time. As stated, that is because disassembling a hot engine down to the block takes awhile (especially if you've never done it before :unsure: ).

The tech inspectors did great job of allowing everyone plenty of time and space to get things done, and then making sure that they were careful and thorough with their checks/tests. For those who have not dealt with the ATL region before, the tech inspectors do make every effort to be helpful and not adverserial.

Finally, everyone in the tech shed, competitior, crew, inspectors and by-standers where calm, polite, and respectful. It was really as enjoyable as a 5 hour knuckbusting, arm burning, stomach churning worry fest could be. Congrats to all involved!!!!

And congrats to all the winners!

R2 Racing
11-19-2006, 12:22 PM
This is Kevin's dad Richard using Kevin's account. He will probably be pissed and change the password immediately. Anyway I had to make a comment. Kevin has known Greg for a long time but I had just met him in the tech shed after the ARRC ITA race. When he came over to us and told us about the possible error with his compression ratio I could see the terror on his face - and hear the honesty in his voice. I decided then that this was a class guy and if his car was illegal it was a pure mistake. Although I was actually axious to pull the head off our car (to take 1st place, and to prove all the advanced mathematics we had done on our new engine), I was thrilled when I heard the tech guy say "Take your head and go home, everything is OK". I am equally impressed with the way Greg handled the issue and told us how it all happened in his post above.

Anyone who can keep that skidish car, with all that power on the track for 20 laps, with Joey & Kevin chasing him, deserves the win.

It also makes looking forward to next year more fun.

2004 7th place
2005 3rd place
2006 2nd place

I see a trend here.

Congrats to Greg again,
Richard Ruck
Ruck Racing

Greg Amy
11-19-2006, 01:00 PM
Richard, thank you very much; I'm flattered that you took the time to respond. I'm just sorry that we had the confusion in the first place...! - Greg