Pace lap slackers – what to do while it’s happening?

[gran racing]

Before I get to the scenario, here’s the related rules quoted from the GCR:


6. Upon determining that the approaching field is at a constant slow speed, well bunched and in line, and close enough that all drivers can see the flag, the Starter shall suddenly and continuously wave the green flag, unless all cars have passed the start line.

7. If the Starter determines that the field is not in good order, or that some drivers have improved their positions by moving out of line or by passing prior to the waving of the green flag, the Starter shall abort the start.

9. A car may not improve its position in the field once it comes under the Starter’s orders, regardless of circumstances. A car that fails to start with the pack or falls out of position during a pace lap relinquishes its grid position… A car that improves its position is guilty of a false start…[/b]

The scenario:

This past weekend at the NARRC, several of us were watching one of the IT races at Lime Rock. During the pace lap, one of the cars backed off quite a bit. This wasn’t simply one of those “back off to get a bit of space to warm the tires / brakes up”, although the driver may have felt this was all that he was doing. (It really created a significant gap between him and the next car in front of his.) While watching this happen, all I could think was how this would mess up the start.

The cars came down towards the flag, and the green was given much to my surprise. After the race, I spoke with a couple of drivers who were running in that group. One driver was in front of the gap, one behind. The driver in front became worried because the cars behind were already at a higher closing speed, and it was about to get interesting in turn one especially because of this. The other driver who was behind the “slacker” car, became frustrated as he saw the cars in front pull away during the pace lap. Where he was positioned, when it went green he was playing catch-up and was further back than should have been.

This certainly isn’t the first time I’ve seen and/or been behind someone falling off the pace lap pace. On a long track where this happens very early on the pace lap, it may not impact the start. I’m not talking about this type of situation, but one where it very well might impact the start of the race. I realize that according to the GCR it is up to the starter and other corner workers to prevent it from happening, but can see how it happens under some circumstances and of course there’s the human error factor. Yeah, there could be protests filed but after the end of the race, many drivers don’t feel it’s worth it. I’d like to skip the “it’s the starter’s responsibilities” and “protest after the race” discussion. My question is what do you do if you’re behind the slacker driver while still on that pace lap. Or possibly in a tougher position, supposed to be on the side of that person but they out qualified you and thus have a better starting position.

Beyond watching this happen this past weekend, I’ve been both behind a “slacker” and on the side of them when they’ve out qualified me. When behind, I’ve become quite tempted to give the car in front a “get your butt moving bump” but never did. When on the side, I’ve been very obvious that we need to get moving and eventually decided to go catch-up with the group after becoming very annoyed.

I’m sure many others have been in this situation before and am curious what you’ve done while this is happening, would do, or should do besides mentally think “I’m so protesting that driver” after the race? While a polite conversation after the race may help in the future, is there anything that can be done to preserve the race while this is occurring?

[tom91ita]

maybe i need to reconsider having a horn button on my steering wheel? i have seen/heard horns used although it is not very frequent.

[Doc Bro]

I was one of the "behind the slacker" cars and I was shocked they threw the green. It seems we go green as long as the front row is neat and organized and no one jumps out of line in the pack. As to the distance in between cars that goes unaccounted for probably because of the distances involved (starter to field).

The start sucked. Cost me several positions. Could be dangerous. I was in that position and all I tried to do was catch up. Unfortunately, I was close enough that when I did catch up the green wasn't out yet and I had to check up....worst possible senario.

We'll give him the winter to think about it I guess. :018:

R

[lateapex911]

I assume you are talking about the part where everyone lines up two by two, after the tire warming stuff is over, right?

If I qualify last...dead last (and I'd rather be last than 3rd or 4th from last, ) then I will be a slacker, LOL...Why not? Might as well hope to get a run, but not if anyone is behind me. (It's actually only happened once, during my school when my instructor insisted I start dead last, LOL)

If I am next to a slacker, who cares!? I don't give a seconds thought to moving right up to my position. If he doesn't want his, screw him, I could care less..actually, that's even better, I get more room to work.

If I'm behind him...well, it's never happened, but I have to admit, I can't say what I'd do here, on the site, LOL.

Even with video, it would be a tough protest to win, unless it was VERY obvious. And even then he'd claim some car related issue. A good "discussion" afterwards would be in order, for sure. Guy can't fix his behaviour if he isn't properly informed, right? ;)

[gran racing]

If I am next to a slacker, who cares!? I don't give a seconds thought to moving right up to my position.[/b]

That's what I've done, but in reality isn't it illegal since I'm passing someone who out qualified me? Or is it actually legal?

[Fastfred92]

maybe i need to reconsider having a horn button on my steering wheel? i have seen/heard horns used although it is not very frequent.
[/b]

You have a horn already, it may not be electric. Mine have been plastic, plastic and steel, chrome sometimes. It is the most forward part of your car, sometimes even the same color! Oh yea and don't be one of those DE hardcharger racer types that mounts his transponder out front on your horn, it could get damaged when you use your horn. If you are not sure how this horn works enter a couple national races, say showroom stock, and brake very early and hard into the first turn first lap. Your fellow competitor behind you we demonstrate the proper use of his horn............. You will hear it as well.

[MMiskoe]

Being a guy who rarely qualifys better than mid pack I've seen this plenty of times.

If you're beside someone who is slacking & you hang back with him, I'd say you deserve both a bump from the guy behind and to lose a spot on the start. Its simple - watch the rear bumper of the guy you lined up behind. Stay 5' behind him, who cares what the guy next to you does.

I've never been on a track where you could do this, but if it was wide enough what happens if you get up along side him - your nose at his door? This will probably help in getting the start waived off & possibly a chance to talk to the SOM about it when its over.

I know you said not to involve the starter, but what about the maniac in the pace car? I've seen lots of starts that the pace car driver acts like he wants to drag race the field in the pit lane. Then the leaders maintan pace w/ the pace car & now you've got the entire field running flat 5 seconds before the flag comes out. Irritating.

Last spring at a drivers school we talked about what to do under caution. People were lollygagging (sp?) and not catching up to the field. I offered that if you do this, the people behind you have freedom to abuse you with a jack handle after the race. No one would disagree with me.

Matt

[latebrake]

You are placed on the the track according to your qualifying time. Its not your decision if he wants to give up his track position. Stay with the car in front and let him drop out of the mirrors if he wants. If he's in front of you,pass him. He may be having a mechanical failure and can explain to the stewards what happened after the race.

This will be a good fly on the wall conversation. " I was just slacking off to get a really good run at the group and this dumb ass passed me" wonder if that will hold up under protest? After a few drivers get the "shut up its your fault" decision this will fix itself. If there are no consequences for bad actions then it will never stop. This is a problem at all tracks and even at the Nationals. No good comes from it and it needs to be stopped. Not a safe start for any of the run group.

[gran racing]

Stay with the car in front and let him drop out of the mirrors if he wants. If he's in front of you,pass him. He may be having a mechanical failure and can explain to the stewards what happened after the race.[/b]

But that goes against # 9 listed above from the GCR. We also had a discussion here recently (maybe not on a pace lap, but still a yellow) where someone had a mechanical failure, the person behind passed them, then they needed to report to the steward after. The conclusion is that the car with the mechanical failure would need to make it very, very obvious before the car could pass them.

Again, if I'm on the side of a person and they out qualified me, am I "gaining a position" by leaving that driver behind? And what happens to the driver behind me, can they also follow me up to the other cars thus really improving positions?

I do like the idea of using the horn! Instead of my silly little horn, can I legally add a very loud and deep truck sounding horn? :D

[JoshS]

Again, if I'm on the side of a person and they out qualified me, am I "gaining a position" by leaving that driver behind?[/b]
You bet you are. Let's assume you qualified 2nd, and you're in the first row. Are you allowed to get in front of the polesitter?


And what happens to the driver behind me, can they also follow me up to the other cars thus really improving positions? [/b]
Of course not. No one can gain a position according to the quoted rule.

[seckerich]

When you leave pit road you are assigned your position by the direction of the splitter. You are required to "maintain the pace" of the pacecar at the start which should be the speed of the car in front of you as well. You have no obligation to slow down for the car beside you as he is in violation for not maintaining proper speed. The rule for gaining position on the start is for jumping out of line or passing the car in front of you. Opinions may vary. :P

[joeg]

You follow the car in front of you. Ignore what is going on besides you.

If you are stuck behind the slacker...tough (sorry you cannot pass him or bump him). He should have enough common sense and courtesy to pull over and let everyone go, but that is wishful thinking.

As for the slacker last on the grid, be aware that I have seen such shot gun slackers penalized after the race if they are way out of line (or way back) and gain an advantage therefrom--like a running start or an opportunity to pass a bunch at the green.

Remember, any starter is going to try for a start if most of the field is somewhat aligned.

[shwah]

If the guy to my side is qualified ahead of me and relinquishes his position by sand bagging, so be it. I will be doing my best to hold position and see the flag (damn I need a radio). I will worry about that guy again if/when he catches up at turn one, and defend my position with the appropriate line.

[Knestis]

Back in the Alliance days, I was pretty much always last on the grid - or thereabouts - if it was dry. I used Jake's logic and used to see how many people I could pass by T1, even though I knew they were going to get me back in short order...

...until one day at Portland. I made a HUGE run up the inside onto the straight, passing a long row of cars - only to discover that the row was hugging the then-new wall to the infield "Pro Pits." I barely got stopped - yes, stopped - before hitting the Jersey barriers closing the pits, found first, and motored away a half lap behind the second-to-last car.

Egg.

Face.

As to the "what to do?" question, there really isn't ANYTHING that's entirely within the rules, I don't think. I do have a horn (nice loud two-tone thing on the Golf) and use it but that just tends to make people bitchy.

K

[lateapex911]

Back in the Alliance days, I was pretty much always last on the grid - or thereabouts - if it was dry. I used Jake's logic and used to see how many people I could pass by T1, even though I knew they were going to get me back in short order...

...until one day at Portland. I made a HUGE run up the inside onto the straight, passing a long row of cars - only to discover that the row was hugging the then-new wall to the infield "Pro Pits." I barely got stopped - yes, stopped - before hitting the Jersey barriers closing the pits, found first, and motored away a half lap behind the second-to-last car.

Egg.

Face.

As to the "what to do?" question, there really isn't ANYTHING that's entirely within the rules, I don't think. I do have a horn (nice loud two-tone thing on the Golf) and use it but that just tends to make people bitchy.

K
[/b]

hehe heh, Kirk, no such wall at Pocono! 31st to 12th by the first turn on the first start, LOL. Only made it from 12th to 8th on the second. YMMV of course.

Make people bitchy about slacking back? ummm..thats Good! (in my book) ;)

Like the idiot who drives around in 2nd gear on a 3 lap full course yellow, and refuses to close ranks. Hello!!!! We are RACING here..have you no interest in that??"

[gsbaker]

...until one day at Portland. I made a HUGE run up the inside onto the straight, passing a long row of cars - only to discover that the row was hugging the then-new wall to the infield "Pro Pits." I barely got stopped - yes, stopped - before hitting the Jersey barriers closing the pits, found first, and motored away a half lap behind the second-to-last car.

Egg.

Face.

[/b]
:D

Like when you start bragging to your lab partner how well your design is working in the test rig, only to discover that the english/metric switch is in the wrong position. Never mind; you had to be there. :)

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

[planet6racing]

I know you said not to involve the starter, but what about the maniac in the pace car? I've seen lots of starts that the pace car driver acts like he wants to drag race the field in the pit lane. Then the leaders maintan pace w/ the pace car & now you've got the entire field running flat 5 seconds before the flag comes out. Irritating.
[/b]

You are supposed to maintain the speed of the pace car when it is on track. Once it has left the track, it immediately needs to go to the end of pit lane and "stand up" for double yellow on the first lap. This is why the pace car always takes off and fly up there. After the first lap or so, they usually "stand down" the pace car and it will assume a different position.

[charrbq]

Not much you can do...unfortunately. If you're beside him and he holds back...screw him...move up. If you're behind him, be ready for him to nail the gas early before the flag and do the same. You're at the mercy of the starter, the corner workers, and the stewards to correct the problem, and they frequently will.

The situation is not unlike the guy that feels like a full course yellow is to be driven at the same speed as a school zone around the entire course.

[Tom Blaney]

Use your horn twice, tap it once, then tap it a little longer the second time, then if he/she still doesn't "hear" your horn, then assume he can't keep pace with the pack and pass him.

[zracre]

that scenario has happened to me more than once...under FCY the lap traffic in front just putts around letting everyone go away as he weaves back and forth paying no attention to how far out the field is going or how bad it is stacking up behind. I give the tap and it is met with waving hands and elbows...it is met again with high beams revving engine and heavy weaving in the mirrors to alert the CW...if that doesnt work hit em hard :rolleyes:

[gran racing]

Oh, yeah, the FCY stuff is also very frustrating. Get you butt in gear, and use this opportunity to safely catch the rest of the pack. I don't understand why people do not comprehend this.

[AntonioGG]

OK what if the car is 200 yards behind the car in front of him and is crawling and there is no obvious hand wave to signal a pass...and the green gets thrown anyway? Would it help if I offered that the car was an IT car from one of those countries which has the stereotype for producing non-reliable cars?

That taught me never to be late to grid again. LOL!