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benspeed
09-26-2006, 11:14 AM
OK - while I'm loving the SPO stock car I still miss running in IT so here's my idea. Boxsters can be found for $12-14K if you look hard. Thinking about buying one as a street ride and doing all the basic stuff for suspension, safety etc while driving it on the street and then dropping a cage, exhaust and all that and taking it ITR racing in a couple seasons.

Question is what folks think about the competitiveness of the car and what the HP potential would be? Does anybody know a shop who has experience building out an SCCA Boxster?

Cheers,

Ben

lateapex911
09-26-2006, 11:43 AM
That's a tough one. I think if you call Rick Deman at Deman Motorsports in Tarrytown, he might have a clue, at least in where to send you. The car is great out of the box, and essentially uses a 911 engine variant, so there should be SOME knowledge out there. But...Porsche guys, well, they like to throw money sometimes, and will just replace the whole motor before they will tweak what they'vegot.

Also, Porsches generally don't have achilles heels..they don't yeild gobs of power with just a muffler change.
I'd hit Pelicanparts.com and go to the BBS, look for info there on the track forum and the Boxster forum, and I'd call respected Porsche shops in the area, such as eman.

dj10
09-26-2006, 12:53 PM
OK - while I'm loving the SPO stock car I still miss running in IT so here's my idea. Boxsters can be found for $12-14K if you look hard. Thinking about buying one as a street ride and doing all the basic stuff for suspension, safety etc while driving it on the street and then dropping a cage, exhaust and all that and taking it ITR racing in a couple seasons.

Question is what folks think about the competitiveness of the car and what the HP potential would be? Does anybody know a shop who has experience building out an SCCA Boxster?

Cheers,

Ben [/b]



Ben, I'd try Steinel's Autowerks in Twinsburg Ohio. I know that is kind of far but I would say they are the best source of info & setup. They have a 4 time National Technicial Winner (Mike Garriga) there. Just do a google search, you'll get the number. Tell them Dan Jones sent you.

seckerich
09-26-2006, 12:58 PM
Might want to give Speedsource a call. We ran the Boxter in Grand Am for quite a while with very good success. They were very reliable and should be a great car for the class.

dj10
09-26-2006, 04:37 PM
Might want to give Speedsource a call. We ran the Boxter in Grand Am for quite a while with very good success. They were very reliable and should be a great car for the class. [/b]

What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again! ;)

seckerich
09-26-2006, 05:21 PM
What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again! ;)
[/b]
They class the RX8 and I will be too. :P

lateapex911
09-27-2006, 12:11 PM
Too soon. But i expect some requests when it hits it's date mark, and if not i'll submit it myself. Any info on a race prepped renesis rotary could help get the classification right. I think there is a fear that the car will be an overacheiver like the 1st and 2nd gen RX 7s, but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?

seckerich
09-27-2006, 01:08 PM
Too soon. But i expect some requests when it hits it's date mark, and if not i'll submit it myself. Any info on a race prepped renesis rotary could help get the classification right. I think there is a fear that the car will be an overacheiver like the 1st and 2nd gen RX 7s, but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?
[/b]
Real world dyno sheets have already been provided. Letter is already written and am in the process of gathering the information to fill out proper VTS. We have enough years of running this motor in formula mazda that it should be a "no brainer" to hit the numbers. This car is close to maxed from the factory. Most people loose a few HP with a header. Check with Jeff Young if you need copies of the dyno runs.

Fastfred92
09-29-2006, 09:33 AM
but thats really not the case with the Renesis, is it?
[/b]

yea right <_<

JeffYoung
09-29-2006, 09:51 AM
The dyno sheets Steve provided show little gains for the Renesis over stock.

I honestly think (and I have NO intention of building one) that the RX8 is a great fit for ITR. 240 or so stock hp, torque not great, good brakes and suspension, apparently only ok aero.

I am writing a proposal this weekend for the car to send to the Mazda bunch, and we hope to get it in this year for approval in 2008.

Me, I think Ron has me convinced that two 994S2s would be a good way to go for ITR -- in a few years. The TR8 is actually coming along quite nicely and in 07/08 want to see what I can do with that (with a hard top and a Dennis Shaw motor). BUt still that damn Jeff Young driver problem......

Fastfred92
09-29-2006, 11:18 AM
I honestly think (and I have NO intention of building one) that the RX8 is a great fit for ITR. 240 or so stock hp, torque not great, good brakes and suspension, apparently only ok aero.

[/b]

So why is the e36 M3 such a overdog?? Same hp, little more torque, at best the same in brakes and suspension and I am sure the areo favors the RX8, if not a wash...

Z3_GoCar
09-29-2006, 11:38 AM
Real world dyno sheets have already been provided. Letter is already written and am in the process of gathering the information to fill out proper VTS. We have enough years of running this motor in formula mazda that it should be a "no brainer" to hit the numbers. This car is close to maxed from the factory. Most people loose a few HP with a header. Check with Jeff Young if you need copies of the dyno runs.
[/b]

Someone once told me that street cars NEVER come with optimized exhaust. Even if the Rx exhaust is optimized I&#39;d think the reason the aftermarket pipes reduce hp is to bolster torque to give a street driver that leaving the red light boost.

Back to the original topic, I&#39;d love to see some boxters out there to run with B)

James

JeffYoung
09-29-2006, 11:44 AM
One post on this and one post only. I&#39;ve always enjoyed your posts and discussions with you and don&#39;t want to get into a tit for tat.

Anyone who has ever spent time in a BMW, or on the BMW boards KNOWS (and I owned an S52 M Coupe) that the S52 was underrated at 240 hp, and it also makes more torque than the Renesis. Also, the common knowledge from Mazda tuners -- which I freely admit I am accepting without debate at this point -- is that the Renesis is close to maxed out. What Bimmerworld or Sunbelt could do with the S52, I don&#39;t know, but I do know that the S52 guys could get more power under the curve with just a Conforti chip, and I bet there are far better header solutions than stock. If the increase in power is ony 50-75% of what the 2.5 saw from Sunbelt, then the M3 would be big trouble in ITR.

Three final points:

1. Ron and I were proponents of the E36 M3 in ITR. However, after hearing discussions from those with more technical expertise than me, I did come to agree it had the potential for being a class disruptor. I just don&#39;t see that with the RX8.

2. It&#39;s not a given that the RX8 will be in. We&#39;ll make the proposal and see what happens, just like we will do with the V8 Mustangs and the 928.

3. Isn&#39;t the 330i nearly as much car as the M3? That&#39;s the BMW I would watch out for. People forget it is only 15 hp (and equal torque?) down on the S52, in the slicker E46 body. THAT is the BMW that really scares me.

Signing off this thread. Thanks guys.

lateapex911
09-29-2006, 12:30 PM
So why is the e36 M3 such a overdog?? Same hp, little more torque, at best the same in brakes and suspension and I am sure the areo favors the RX8, if not a wash...
[/b]

A "little" more? The tq curve of the inline 6 is pretty darn good. I&#39;d like to see the stock tq curves side by side. The renisis is great from the factory..not much left on the table. Sure, there IS something left, but it is NOwhere near the gains we&#39;ve come to expect from rotaries, and probably it&#39;&#39;s even less than a conservative piston build.

Fastfred92
09-29-2006, 01:26 PM
Jeez, just asking..................

If you could just find some 7k Boxster donors :D

Andy Bettencourt
09-29-2006, 01:34 PM
Fred,

ANY research on your part will find you the info on the RX-8 you need. I was the person who didn&#39;t want it in until we could verify the claims you are reading. Remember, this is a motor that was originally rated at 250hp, then downgraded to 238hp, and guess what? The 2007&#39;s are rated at 212hp and 159ftlbs with no changes. This rating is in line with off-the-shelf dyno &#39;complaints&#39; by owners. Place a call to SpeedSource and learn that their GAC cars don&#39;t make a ton of power. Check the GAC specs for these cars. The RX-8 is allowed to run at 2650, have a header, a 5.12 R&P and the Mazdaspeed Aero package while the 330&#39;s run at 2875 with little mods. The cars have proven equal this year in GAC competition. These guys have the data...

The E36 M3 was excluded, not because it had the potential to disrupt the class, but because using the same process all the other cars had to go through, it would have to come in at around 3500lbs. That is just too much to make sense to anyone IMHO.

A LITTLE MORE torque? 236ft/lbs @ 3800 compared to 159ft/lbs @ 5500. Come on Fred, the numbers are real, it&#39;s no conspiracy.

On paper, ITR should be great with no overdogs. Being careful with the RX-8 is key to the success of ITR, hence the delay in its classification.

shwah
09-29-2006, 05:44 PM
If I were thinking Porsche, I would be looking at 911 SCs. Light weight, lots of parts available and a smog era engine that should benefit significantly from IT prep. You can find them for your $7k price too if you look.

I will stick with my VW for now, but I may just move to an ITR Porsche instead of a Production VW down the road.

benspeed
09-29-2006, 06:38 PM
What the hell are we doing? I might be racing against this guy again! ;)
[/b]

I&#39;ve been looking at 911 SC as a great choice also - had one for about 4 years in the 90&#39;s. Street trim was very quick when I ran LRP with PCA.

Nobody really made a yeah or nay on the Boxster being really competitive - pit it agains the 330i and how would it do?

Cheers,

bp

Hmmmmm - maybe that Speedsource prepped Boxster might be a sweet purchase....... :lol:

PS - thanks for the shop leads. I will call them for info and ask they keep an eye out for a streetable then trackable 986.

Fastfred92
09-30-2006, 08:04 AM
If I were thinking Porsche, I would be looking at 911 SCs. Light weight, lots of parts available and a smog era engine that should benefit significantly from IT prep. You can find them for your $7k price too if you look.
[/b]

My thoughts on the 911SC are little gains to be had with CIS, headers will help some, adjustable cam timing a plus but engine will not see the 25% gains seen elsewhere. The T bar suspension also presents it own set of headaches. Massive oversteer may be a plus though....

My .02 is Boxster or 968 is the P car way to go

lateapex911
09-30-2006, 11:34 AM
I have a 911, and the T bar suspension isn&#39;t the worst thing. In IT rules, an SC could be made to handle. (And would be a dream to cornerweight!) And they brake pretty well. But honestly, I don&#39;t think that the engine will see the increase that the process expects it to. It&#39;s aircooled, and the CIS is a stranglepoint. I thought about it, just as I considered a 911E or 911S for ITS, but I think it will be a lot of work and money for a disappointing return.

But I could be wrong!

shwah
09-30-2006, 09:21 PM
CIS can be tuned. Everyone has just forgotten how in the modern world.

Fastfred92
09-30-2006, 09:52 PM
CIS can be tuned. Everyone has just forgotten how in the modern world.
[/b]

Sure Chris, anything can be tuned but the CIS injection on the 3.0 911&#39;s is only the start of the problems. You also have very mild cams to work with CIS, low ( by todays standard ) C/R, so so intake runners with a crappy airbox setup and a big need for lots of oil cooler to keep it alive. The T bar suspension will work fine but is a pain in the ass to work with and bars are mucho more $$ than a 2.5" coil over spring. I love air cooled 911&#39;s, but unless you are in a class where the changes allowed help all the pitfalls, you are just riding around in a cool car that makes cool sounds....

benspeed
10-01-2006, 07:44 PM
Definitely the gaze has shifted now to the Boxster.

Z3_GoCar
10-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Yesterday (Saturday) afternoon a guy, sorry I don&#39;t remember his name, came by my paddock spot at Cal-Clubs Willow Springs event. He was running a Boxter on a limited budget and doing PCA events. He blew his motor and was waiting on the cash to put it back togeather. I told him about ITR and wished him luck at getting the Boxter back on the track. I&#39;d love to see him out there next year.

James

shwah
10-02-2006, 07:30 AM
Sure Chris, anything can be tuned but the CIS injection on the 3.0 911&#39;s is only the start of the problems. You also have very mild cams to work with CIS, low ( by todays standard ) C/R, so so intake runners with a crappy airbox setup and a big need for lots of oil cooler to keep it alive. The T bar suspension will work fine but is a pain in the ass to work with and bars are mucho more $$ than a 2.5" coil over spring. I love air cooled 911&#39;s, but unless you are in a class where the changes allowed help all the pitfalls, you are just riding around in a cool car that makes cool sounds....
[/b]
All good points made by someone who definitely appears to know more about these cars than me. I still can&#39;t help but think that at the specified weight, with the great braking potential and reasonable power that this could be a competitive car. It&#39;s all moot really, since I certainly won&#39;t be affording race car maintenance at Porsche parts prices any time soon.

ldp82
10-03-2006, 07:46 PM
Boxsters are great cars; my dads 2.7 boxster runs 2:20 flat around the glen full track and 1:22 around NHIS. The car is some what modded but still driven to the events, it even tows a tire trailer.

The car has proven its self to be a great car with over 100 track days on it and no real problems. It has taken my dad from a novice to a PCA instructor.

Now if I can talk my dad into co driving it with me in ITR. I guess I will have to finish my ITA miata and get him hooked on racing not just DEs.



-Luke

JoshS
10-03-2006, 07:49 PM
Now if I can talk my dad into co driving it with me in ITR. I guess I will have to finish my ITA miata and get him hooked on racing not just DEs.
[/b]
You know that the ITR Boxster listing is the 2.5L, not the 2.7L like your Dad&#39;s, right? Presumably the 2.7L would have to weigh a bit more?

Andy Bettencourt
10-06-2006, 02:37 PM
...and a competitive ITR time at NHIS is gonna have to be in the LOW 1:13&#39;s or high 1:12&#39;s...

:birra:

Ron Earp
10-06-2006, 02:43 PM
Holy Damn Andy, I clicked that link and thought I&#39;d get to see some BOC action or more STL cowbell. WTH wreck was that????

Andy Bettencourt
10-06-2006, 07:56 PM
Holy Damn Andy, I clicked that link and thought I&#39;d get to see some BOC action or more STL cowbell. WTH wreck was that????

[/b]

SM race at Watkins Glen. From a friends car. Reminds me that this shizzle is dangerous.

ldp82
10-09-2006, 11:43 AM
1:12 driving both chicane?

benspeed
10-12-2006, 08:10 AM
OK - so I&#39;ve been beat on every boxster bid I&#39;ve put on ebay. Don&#39;t think the $12K Boxster exists. I have been looking at some 968 cars and actually think that they might be a better pick - easy to get down to weight of 3055 lbs and 236 hp stock.

Anybody have an opinion on how racey a 968 might be? Found a coupe with 65K miles for $13.5K that would work as a street car for a year while I dial it in.

Good price on that sled?

Andy Bettencourt
10-12-2006, 08:24 AM
1:12 driving both chicane? [/b] Nope. South oval, North chicane. ITS race record is 1:14.1xx

924Guy
10-12-2006, 11:06 AM
OK - so I&#39;ve been beat on every boxster bid I&#39;ve put on ebay. Don&#39;t think the $12K Boxster exists. I have been looking at some 968 cars and actually think that they might be a better pick - easy to get down to weight of 3055 lbs and 236 hp stock.

Anybody have an opinion on how racey a 968 might be? Found a coupe with 65K miles for $13.5K that would work as a street car for a year while I dial it in.

Good price on that sled?
[/b]

Seems like it might be; OTOH, a 944S2 would be cheaper to get your hands on, though it&#39;d only have the 5-speed, not the 6-speed - I assume if the 968&#39;s classed, so would the 944S2?

Ron Earp
10-12-2006, 12:09 PM
It is classed.

OTOH, neither will make as much power as one of those Z cars I bet.

R

lateapex911
10-12-2006, 12:24 PM
But they aren&#39;t Z cars... ;)

I think the S2 has promise, but they aren&#39;t too common. Nor is the 968.

Andy Bettencourt
10-12-2006, 03:00 PM
I love my Miata but I just can&#39;t stop thinking about this class. No car pops out at me as being THE choice. I look at light cars first, then powerful cars, then &#39;combo&#39; cars...

The Z will be powerful but heavy. The 325&#39;s will still be powerful but less so, and light. The Porsches (944S2 and 968) are &#39;combo&#39; cars.

Then I look at what is fast in ITS and see if something sticks out as much faster. The 968 with probably 200whp stock at around 3000lbs, room for huge wheels, massive brakes and a 50-50 chassis looks like it could be really fast out of the box. A well built E46 325is would have that same power number, be 200lbs lighter and a real nice chassis. Porsche guys will have to find the power...

Could easily choose 7-8 cars I think could run at the front AND be interested in building!

Ron Earp
10-12-2006, 03:53 PM
This is what is nice about the class-nothing appears to be a class beater. I hope it stays that way!!!! One of those Supras would be really nice.....

R

Bill Miller
10-13-2006, 05:59 AM
Just reading through this thread, and seeing all the cars that people are throwing out there as good, solid candidates is cool. To me, that&#39;s validation that we did a pretty good job putting this thing together.

I would LOVE to be able to afford to run a car in this class, as it looks like it&#39;s going to be a hoot, w/ a lot of players comming to the party. Don&#39;t kid yourself, front running ITR cars are going to be MAJOR $$$, and we won&#39;t see it for 3-4 years until some of the really significant development happens, and people start sorting these things out.

If I was going to run a car, and I had the attitude that it didn&#39;t have to be the &#39;best&#39; car out there, hands down it would be a 911 SC. I still think those are some of the coolest cars ever, and they&#39;ve got such a racing pedigree. Just like the old adage "nobody ever got fired for picking IBM", you could just as easily say "hard to go wrong racing a 911". If I were going to go w/ the &#39;best&#39; car, I&#39;d have to look real hard at an E46 BMW.

It&#39;s also kind of interesting some of the cars that haven&#39;t been brought up (e.g. 928, E30 M3, etc.)

Should be some very busy people over the winter (not to mention some melted credit cards! :D )

benspeed
10-13-2006, 09:08 AM
Think anybody would notice if I put my all aluminum LS1 in the Camaro???

I looked at the V6 Mustang too - light at 2670 and found a good one for only $5K with 60K miles but I would melt those crappy brakes off the car. I can see the pads catching on fire as I roll in for tire temps. Best HP might be 190 stock to 230 on a good day. Don&#39;t see that car doing so great unless its cheatered up good (cheap car to cheater up so keep an eye on those rednecks.) :unsure:

I&#39;m still looking Porsche - 968 is now my class pick and if I get out there early I might win some races before people develop the heck out of their cars to match HP.

PS - I need somebody with a hot girlfriend or wife to go distract the guys at sound while big bore is out at LRP. My car is blowing 107 and I need those guys busy oogling, not watching sound meters! C&#39;mon need some help here!

I even sent in a respectful request to move sound OUTSIDE the friggin track where its supposed to be - any bets they accomodate me??? B)

latebrake
10-13-2006, 01:24 PM
Think anybody would notice if I put my all aluminum LS1 in the Camaro???

I looked at the V6 Mustang too - light at 2670 and found a good one for only $5K with 60K miles but I would melt those crappy brakes off the car. I can see the pads catching on fire as I roll in for tire temps. Best HP might be 190 stock to 230 on a good day. Don&#39;t see that car doing so great unless its cheatered up good (cheap car to cheater up so keep an eye on those rednecks.) :unsure:

I&#39;m still looking Porsche - 968 is now my class pick and if I get out there early I might win some races before people develop the heck out of their cars to match HP.

PS - I need somebody with a hot girlfriend or wife to go distract the guys at sound while big bore is out at LRP. My car is blowing 107 and I need those guys busy oogling, not watching sound meters! C&#39;mon need some help here!

I even sent in a respectful request to move sound OUTSIDE the friggin track where its supposed to be - any bets they accomodate me??? B)
[/b]

the 968 is a good pick. Look at the 944 cup site NASA and place "I want one" there. seen one there a year ago for 6k. Lots of info and parts for sale too. Ask Dave or John Brown to help locate one for you. They will be glad to help as the car can run in the cup with them as well. hope this helps. Lawrence

RussJones
10-13-2006, 01:43 PM
Ben, before you break the bank, lets go through the numbers on these cars (porsche 944-68). For many reasons they are not cheap. Run a stock motor, you will feel like your pulling bricks. See you at Lime Rock. Russ

benspeed
10-16-2006, 08:57 AM
Yup - them Porsches will break the bank but are damn good cars. I drove a 968 this Friday and it just didn&#39;t feel that quick. Big money for the car and then more for the motor......hummmm.

Boxsters are still top of mind especially after driving the 968. Maybe prices will plunge once the snow hits.

Cheers,

Ron Earp
10-16-2006, 10:38 AM
I use Ebay frequently and look at completed items. Around Christmas time last year when Jeff and I were first putting the ITR list together I looked up Boxsters and find some good candidates for much less than you guys recently found - however, with some body damage. I remember one that had just a front quarter mashed in, all lights busted (which are expensive), but ran great etc. went for $8270 and I did note completion of the auction - it sold for that. Drivable too and radiator intact as the descritption said. I imagine this would put off the normal buyers since it&#39;d cost a lot to make right, but it was perfect for a racer and a can of bondo and some tape to cover up those lights!

Is there a place to find wrecked cars other than ebay? Like a clearing house area? I think a Boxster would be attractive too and maybe a contender.....would like to find that deal again.

R

Fastfred92
10-16-2006, 10:57 AM
Is there a place to find wrecked cars other than ebay? Like a clearing house area? I think a Boxster would be attractive too and maybe a contender.....would like to find that deal again.
[/b]

Ron, around our parts their are two decent auctions for wrecked cars.

www.adesaimpact.com (or) www.iaai.com

Check out the auction list for "Raleigh"

JeffYoung
10-16-2006, 11:02 AM
Fred, thanks. I had never heard of those. Have you used them before?

Fastfred92
10-16-2006, 02:08 PM
Fred, thanks. I had never heard of those. Have you used them before?
[/b]

It&#39;s funny you should ask.... My last two IT and SSS cars, my Spec e36 project car and a current T3 project all have been purchased at adesa. Most of these cars are total loss insurance claims that often have little real damage beyond blown airbags ($$$) and some sheetmetal. Salvage title makes no difference in the race car world..

benspeed
10-16-2006, 04:04 PM
Funny - I had discounted the 968 - mistake.

I went over to see a Boxster for sale on ebay. Negotiated my best price of $13.5K 55K miles and went to see the car which was in for service at the Porsche dealer. Get to talking with the service guy and he has a 968 for sale - personal car - parked behind the service facility. We jump in and give it a drive - car has BALLS - way more balls than a boxster. Car is 1993 968 - pristine with 90K mile on it for $8K. That has my mind working overtime! Black with mint grey leather and torsion LSD from the factory.

Never even looked at the Boxster - I&#39;ll hunt the auctions here in Jersey and see what that turns up.

I think ITR will become THE CLASS to run.

Cheers

I&#39;m having too much fun figuring out this class - must remember to do some work during the day!

Fastfred92
10-17-2006, 08:15 PM
For us southeast guys considering a Boxster look what popped up on ebay....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-PORSCH...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-PORSCHE-BOXTER-ONLY-9999_W0QQitemZ260042332223QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6015Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

BMW RACER
10-17-2006, 08:52 PM
OH MY GOD!!

Look at these specs..............0-60 mph in 6 seconds, 0-100 mph in 6.9 seconds It only takes .9 seconds to go from 60 to 100!!

That cars a ringer. WE&#39;RE ALL DEAD!! OH MY GOD!!

Seriously though, what about a BMW Z4? Not classified yet, but could be by the time I get one and build it :D

Z3_GoCar
10-17-2006, 09:52 PM
OH MY GOD!!

Look at these specs..............0-60 mph in 6 seconds, 0-100 mph in 6.9 seconds It only takes .9 seconds to go from 60 to 100!!

That cars a ringer. WE&#39;RE ALL DEAD!! OH MY GOD!!

Seriously though, what about a BMW Z4? Not classified yet, but could be by the time I get one and build it :D
[/b]

Sure, it&#39;ll be eligable in &#39;08. What with the roadsters being de-classes in Grand-Am, maybe you could find a good one to run D-Prep in untill then. See you at the Pumpkin-run.

James

Karl Bocchieri
01-23-2007, 07:42 PM
Ben,
I was talking to Van Steinberg about ITR, He told me that when he was preping the cars for his exceutive race series a few years ago the Boxter was so fast that they had to put intake restrictors on it to slow it down enough that the other cars could keep up. I think it&#39;s the way to go.

If anyone is interrested in spending lots of money to end up at the back of the pack, I will sell you my Contour SVT with 150,000 miles cheap. Great street car though. It will never be as fast as my ITS car, let alone the ITR cars.

RobAP
01-24-2007, 09:31 AM
iaii requires you to be a member to see the actual damage on the cars...thats $200.
adesaimpact dose not and you can see pics of every car just about and the damage fo free befire deciding to go get something.

benspeed
01-24-2007, 12:41 PM
Hey Karl - good to hear from ya buddy.

I took a pass on ITR. I drove a 944 S2 and several 968 Porsches and I owned a 97 Boxster for 7 years. The Boxster hands down is the better car overall, but the 968 was fast - at least the 1 healthy car I drove. I decided I didn&#39;t want to spend that much $$ while I was still driving my stock car so I ended up buying a Fiero for a winter project and am just finishing a full blown motor build. This will be an interesting experiment for ITA. If the car puts down about 130-140 hp at the wheels I&#39;ll put a cage in and race it at the non NARRC points events. I&#39;ll run the stocker for the NARRC SPO championship this year.

Keen to see how ITR shapes up. But a wrecked Boxster or 968 would be WAY more expensive to fix than an ITA Fiero.

Cheers,

Ben

924Guy
01-24-2007, 12:54 PM
YMMV... having been punted (badly) by a Fear-O when I used to run in ITA, I know the 924(/944/968) is the more solid car... I got a bent trailing arm and rim; he got a bent frame!!!

benspeed
12-17-2007, 01:44 PM
It was cool re-reading this thread from last year when I was looking for a Boxster. Got sidetracked playing around with a Fiero, built it out before putting in a cage, decided the car was not going to run up front and had too many issues to manage around. Sold it and got 90% back. So - Boxster has finally been purchased.

Picked up this Saturday in Natick MA - a 1 owner 1999 silver with black interior including matching hardtop for $11.5K and 60 day warranty and 71K on the odometer.

The bads - it has a golfball sized hole in the front valance (covered up now with color matched helicopter tape) and a small crease in the passender rear fenderwell on back side - tiny with no rust - needs touchup paint to hide it. Needs 2 rear tires but they are in decent shape to drive on for another 3K miles.

The good - car is in amazing condition. Interior is new - no wear and the exterior has nothing other than mentioned above. The service manual is up to date and stamped including the major 60K service that was done at 67K miles - that alone is worth a mint to me. Clutch is excellent, trans is excellent, motor runs like my 97 Boxster when brand new. When put on a lift before finishing the deal it&#39;s clean and no signs of any leaks, damage etc. Muffler and exhaust show some age but no leaks or nasty rust - just surface rust. Headers and exhaust will be the first thing done - after I have an inspection. Cats - don&#39;t need no cats!

Option codes show it does not have a LSD but it does have traction control. It does have some auxillary trans and oil cooler options added. A brake differential option was also shown - not sure what that is.

Some questions for the IT community:

Anybody racing one of these in ITR yet?
What does traction control do? Limit power if a slippage condition exists? What&#39;s the trick LSD - Quaife?
Who is the best resource to get build information from?
Any thoughts on what a programmable ECU would do for the car - worth the expense?

Looks like this car will be an &#39;09 debut - it&#39;s just too damn nice to not enjoy for a year while building it. I will dyno it now stock and progressively report on what changes helped or hurt (i.e. 4 Fiero exhaust sytems -3 that did nothing to improve performance).

Hopefully somebody else out there is going for a Boxster build to compare notes with.

Thanks,

dj10
12-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Anybody racing one of these in ITR yet?
What does traction control do? Limit power if a slippage condition exists? What&#39;s the trick LSD - Quaife?
Who is the best resource to get build information from?
Any thoughts on what a programmable ECU would do for the car - worth the expense?
Hopefully somebody else out there is going for a Boxster build to compare notes with.

Thanks,
[/b]

The Racer&#39;s Edge, Karl Poeltl and or Steinel&#39;s Autowerks, Twinsburg, OH, Eric Steinel. This is where I would start to look.

Ditch the traction control, 1. not allowed and does limit power. Porsche&#39;s ECU&#39;s are very close to max and there would not be a lot gained from a new EMS. These guys I gave you would know more than me. :D

The only downside I see to racing a Porsche is the cost of the parts which makes BMW parts look cheap. Get it together, bring it to Nelson Ledges and call me if you need a test driver. B) It should be a 1.13 car there.

Good luck and happy holidays Ben

GKR_17
12-17-2007, 03:54 PM
What does traction control do? [/b]

Do you mean for street use?
It must be disabled in IT.

benspeed
12-17-2007, 05:31 PM
Thanks guys - Racers Edge is not too far so I&#39;ll call on them.

I figured the traction control wasn&#39;t going to be a help - we&#39;ll rip them wires out - wait, that&#39;s why I need a trained professional :-)

I was able to run a 16 at Nelson in the ITS Mazda so 13 should certainly be in reach.

Happy Holidays

JoshS
12-17-2007, 05:52 PM
Specifically, the rules require that you disable it by disconnecting at least 3 of the wheel speed sensors. It used to say all 4 wheel speed sensors, but that rule changed to 3 because the more modern BMWs with their stock ECU go into limp-home mode if the right-rear wheel speed sensor is disconnected.

lateapex911
12-17-2007, 08:32 PM
This outa be good.

;)

924Guy
12-17-2007, 09:06 PM
Very cool to see the build going on! Looking forward to updates...

TCS - will reduce engine power and apply one or both brakes on the drive axle to control wheel slip to improve 1) stability, 2) steerability, and 3) acceleration. So you can see, you don&#39;t want it. :)

I&#39;ve been instructed that a factory-style clutch pack diff is the best, but maybe that&#39;s another sort of religous debate... I&#39;m using one &#39;cause that&#39;s what was cheapest! ;)

dj10
12-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Thanks guys - Racers Edge is not too far so I&#39;ll call on them.

I figured the traction control wasn&#39;t going to be a help - we&#39;ll rip them wires out - wait, that&#39;s why I need a trained professional :-)

I was able to run a 16 at Nelson in the ITS Mazda so 13 should certainly be in reach.

Happy Holidays [/b]



Ben, read my lips, Don&#39;t use a Quaife :018: . Take this from experience. :( If I were building your car, one of the 1st things I&#39;d be looking for is a LSD and not the kind you take by mouth. B) IMO the 3 things I see of importance is the Roll Cage, Suspension then Porsche LSD and in that order. With these 3 things you should be able to win races.

Andy Bettencourt
12-17-2007, 11:15 PM
I would call Speedsource. They had at least 1 Boxster they did for the first few years they were in GAC.



http://speedsourceinc.com/client_images/news/976.jpg

Z3_GoCar
12-18-2007, 01:03 AM
Very cool to see the build going on! Looking forward to updates...

TCS - will reduce engine power and apply one or both brakes on the drive axle to control wheel slip to improve 1) stability, 2) steerability, and 3) acceleration. So you can see, you don&#39;t want it. :)

I&#39;ve been instructed that a factory-style clutch pack diff is the best, but maybe that&#39;s another sort of religous debate... I&#39;m using one &#39;cause that&#39;s what was cheapest! ;)
[/b]

All the debates on diff&#39;s I&#39;ve seen rank the quaife third behind the clutch pack then a locker/spool/welded. Tuning the clutch pack is an art in itself, break-away torque as well as ramp angles and more can be adjusted. Good luck on the Boxter. I&#39;d love to see you do well with it.

James

benspeed
12-18-2007, 12:34 PM
Thanks guys - I did send an email over to Speed Source - remebered that yellow Boxster also - no reply yet.

I&#39;ll put my ebay search out for Boxster LSD - hopefully a little hallucination will come my way :-)

seckerich
12-18-2007, 12:55 PM
We ran 2 boxters for a few years in Grand Am at Speedsource. Dead solid reliable for the most part. Have to stand on your head or pull the motor to do almost everything. Weak point is power steering will puke fluid almost every session. Add an overflow tank. I do not think they ever had a manual rack, could be wrong. I will be surprised if they have any time to deal with one until after Daytona. Thrashing to get all the cars ready. David Haskell built the motors for all the boxters and the GS cars as well. Does good work and reliable.

dj10
12-18-2007, 04:02 PM
I&#39;ll put my ebay search out for Boxster LSD - hopefully a little hallucination will come my way :-) [/b]



LOL Ben! Please make sure you :rolleyes: don&#39;t eat the wrong LSD too!!! :026:

BTW I have no interest in anything or anybody I may have recommended. Although I do know Eric Steinel but haven&#39;t talked to him in years.

benspeed
03-11-2008, 12:06 PM
Thank goodness the Germans make good cars - Boxster nailed on highway by box truck doing 90 mph - rear ended and flung into woods where trees tore car into little pieces.

Walked away with a bloody nose - wasn't even sore the next day.

Awaiting actual cash value payment. Spent $11500 and $600 on brake job - we'll see what I get from insurance. Looking to keep the hardtop and buy another car...

dj10
03-11-2008, 01:04 PM
Thank goodness the Germans make good cars - Boxster nailed on highway by box truck doing 90 mph - rear ended and flung into woods where trees tore car into little pieces.

Walked away with a bloody nose - wasn't even sore the next day.

Awaiting actual cash value payment. Spent $11500 and $600 on brake job - we'll see what I get from insurance. Looking to keep the hardtop and buy another car...

Oh WOW!!!!!!!!!! Thank GOD your OK! There goes the Boxster ITR car. Post some picture if you could. Ben your a lucky man and yes good thing Germans build good cars.

lateapex911
03-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Jeeeeeeeeeez! Ben that SUCKS! Glad you;re ok....
A box truck going 90??
I hope he didn't flee. Did the cops charge him with a metric ton of offenses?
Insurance will probably attempt to low ball. Don't be afraid to be a complete dick, and negotiate hard. From what I've seen, they try hard to keep costs low and profits high.

benspeed
03-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Thanks for the well wishes. Wasn't even sore - figured I've crashed enough on the track to know you take your hands off the wheel, cross your arms and relax for the hit.

Can you ring that cash register for me? Can you say I can buy 'em? Pocketed $7K that's correct $7K on the settlement. $11500 purchase $18595 on the payout. Where's that big smiley face icon

924Guy
03-13-2008, 10:53 AM
Oh, man - glad to hear you're in one piece!

Sounds like the build budget is doing better than expected? ;)

JeffYoung
03-13-2008, 11:01 AM
Dang, sorry to thear that. Was really interested in how that car would do in R.

x-ring
03-13-2008, 06:01 PM
It isn't too late. Now you have another $7K in the build budget...

Z3_GoCar
03-14-2008, 12:44 AM
They do a great job of sacrificing themselves to save the passengers. Glad you're alright Ben.

Actually, I'd bet there's more than $7k in the kitty as you don't have to get another hard-top.

do-it, do-it, do-it....

James

lateapex911
03-14-2008, 09:31 AM
OK, get back on that horse!

Here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-SPEED-CONVERTIBLE-LOW-MILES-ARIZONA-CAR-CHEAP_W0QQitemZ300205778958QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m300205778958

benspeed
03-14-2008, 11:16 AM
OK - here's the total story I posted on Rennlist.

A sweet story. I shop for about a year for a 1997-99 Boxster, which has recently been classed in SCCA ITR - I race there regularly in a GT1/Super Production stock car.

I find a sweet looking Boxster in Natick MA - Silver with a hardtop installed, 72K miles clocked, a hole in the front valance and a nice nick on the right rear quarter wheel well and told by sales the rear plastic convertible window is shot. Drive the race car hauler up to Natick MA and after putting the car on the lift at Honda of Natick, the dealer selling the car, I buy it. I asked the salesman, "too good to be true, car is mint, spotless underneath, stamped book - what's the catch? Car has the two blemishes and wouldn't sell in a wealthy community, we dug it out of a snowbank to sell it." I pay a great price and enjoy the heck out of it for 3 months. During the three months I clean this car up and fix the blemishes. I book some DE dates to warm up for the upcoming season with SCCA GT1 and enter into a PITA brake and rotor job. Another recent thread. Anyway, finish the brake upgrade, carefully test the brakes the night before and am driving the car to work the next day.

On my way to work I am forced into a spin by several crossing deer and whip around on wet, rainsoaked pavement. Go into the woods backwards and after hitting an oak, I do the washing machine spin into a few trees. Car is a Porsche and I walk away with no real injuries. I'm fine other than a bloody nose from my hand - must have been off the wheel - not sure if the dodge was worth it and sorry to the animal rights folks. I've put about 600 miles on this car since I bought it.

Today I pick up from my local insurer a settlement check for $19,800 - less than a week after this accident occurred. Outstanding service from my insurer and proof that a Porsche in excellent condition retains its value like a champ. Buy good insurance too. This also proves that if you do your research carefully, you can find a fantastic Porsche at a great price. You must also have the cash on hand to act.

After looking for 12 months for the last car I see yesterday on ebay a 1997 Black Boxster with 59k miles for $12.500. I've negotiated a price of $11,500 - the rear window just split (after Porsche of Hunnington installed a new top in 2007). Car has New Dealer clutch also and 60K service. This presented a very fair price reduction from the seller.

I have placed a significant deposit on this car: eBay auction ended

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...4.cWAT.m240.lVIhttp://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.21.0.1/t.gif (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120230002061&_trksid=p3984.cWAT.m240.lVI)

So I did make a rare prayer to my Lord that I do deserve this good fortune. And if anybody thinks this car is a POS, post it.

Keep your Boxsters in great shape - cheers

PS - what was the deal with 97 Boxsters not running wheels bigger than 17? I bought a 97 when they first came out and remember that.

PPS-I ended up at $8300 in my pocket after deducting the cost of the car. Couldn't keep the hardtop as the insurer gave me over $2000 for it. I pick up my new black Boxster tomorrow.

benspeeder

benspeed
03-18-2008, 09:18 AM
Man - every Boxster I've looked at has been a rat. The cash is nice but I liked my old car :-(

robits325is
03-18-2008, 12:18 PM
Interested in a Silver / Red Leather 99 Boxster with a little over 100k? Probably $11,000 range

17" wheels, nice condition 5 speed.

benspeed
03-18-2008, 01:17 PM
Rob,

I'll give you a call.

Cheers,

Ben

benspeed
03-21-2008, 11:08 AM
Sorry - didn't call - bought a new ITR Boxster. This '98 car went for $15.7K and has 65K miles - basically the same features as the old car but cleaner - looks new and has new Hankook tires, new brakes and the top is perfect. Came with a hardtop also. At the end of the day I got a better car and still put about $3K in my pocket. Paid $4.2K more - that shows how much $$ some careful research can save you. The market turned and spring pricing has now taken effect. Always buy your sports cars in Dec/Jan.

Cheers,

bigspeed

Z3_GoCar
03-21-2008, 11:47 AM
Good to see you've found a replacement.

I've found the same problem when looking at replacing my racer with a new one. I can't believe that I can't find a decent 2.8 for less than 10k, and that like an 8-11 year old car too. I've seen wrecked ones go for 7-8K, and replacement panels only seem to be avalible from the dealer.

James

dj10
03-26-2008, 12:44 PM
Sorry - didn't call - bought a new ITR Boxster. This '98 car went for $15.7K and has 65K miles - basically the same features as the old car but cleaner - looks new and has new Hankook tires, new brakes and the top is perfect. Came with a hardtop also. At the end of the day I got a better car and still put about $3K in my pocket. Paid $4.2K more - that shows how much $$ some careful research can save you. The market turned and spring pricing has now taken effect. Always buy your sports cars in Dec/Jan.

Cheers,

bigspeed
Ben, couln't you buy your wrecked car back from the insurance co.? There had to be some good parts still left or was it not worth it? Still wanted to see the picture of the wreck.

I hope you have better luck with this one.:D

benspeed
03-26-2008, 01:14 PM
Hey Dan,

They offered to sell it back to me for $5500. It was pounded pretty bad - bent chassis, ruined front end, motor knocked off the mounts, the whole rear was pancaked and who knows what happened to the trans.

I got such a good settlement on the cash I didn't want to mess with it. Going to take the new Boxster to Pocono for DE event to see how the car behaves and warm up the skills for the upcoming season. We'll be sure to take it easy - no double deal on wreckage.

What I have determined is that a Boxster is not going to respond all that great to IT trim improvements. The intake and exhaust are about as good as I'll get from the factory. No legitimate after market parts makers will make any claim over 5 hp and I'm not spending $3K on an exhaust for 5 hp. Nobody is making any real claims on intake improvements either.

If anybody has feedback on what they think a Boxster will make in IT trim at the crank I'd be very curious to hear that info. I've been told by Farnbacher Lowles that they find the motor difficult to work on and not easy to optimize much beyond factory. This car will be a ITR version of the ITA Miata - all momentum and handling I figure.

You going to Summit for 4/26? I might be there with the GT1/SPO car.

Cheers,

Ben

dj10
03-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Hey Dan,

They offered to sell it back to me for $5500. It was pounded pretty bad - bent chassis, ruined front end, motor knocked off the mounts, the whole rear was pancaked and who knows what happened to the trans.

I got such a good settlement on the cash I didn't want to mess with it. Going to take the new Boxster to Pocono for DE event to see how the car behaves and warm up the skills for the upcoming season. We'll be sure to take it easy - no double deal on wreckage.

What I have determined is that a Boxster is not going to respond all that great to IT trim improvements. The intake and exhaust are about as good as I'll get from the factory. No legitimate after market parts makers will make any claim over 5 hp and I'm not spending $3K on an exhaust for 5 hp. Nobody is making any real claims on intake improvements either.

If anybody has feedback on what they think a Boxster will make in IT trim at the crank I'd be very curious to hear that info. I've been told by Farnbacher Lowles that they find the motor difficult to work on and not easy to optimize much beyond factory. This car will be a ITR version of the ITA Miata - all momentum and handling I figure.

You going to Summit for 4/26? I might be there with the GT1/SPO car.

Cheers,

Ben

Ben, remember every Porsche is a race car.:) All you need to do is get it down to weight and put wheels, tires or tyres and a suspension on it to be competitive. That's why Prosche's are so much more. You almost have a IT car without doing anything to it.:D
Best of luck

benspeed
03-28-2008, 10:53 AM
I like it - will let you know how it behaves on the track in stock form after next weekend at Pocono.

benspeed
04-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Pocono North Course was very fun this weekend but a DE event just doesn't stack up to a race weekend or test weekend when you are running against the clock and measuring the results.

The determination on the car - outstanding brakes. I ran KFP purlple in front and gold in the back and these were some of the grabbiest pads I've used. (But they squeak terribly on the street which sucks.)

The handling was excellent. Coming off the straight into the right hander I was able to just tap brakes and clip the apex at extreme speed. The car would get unsettled only for a moment but recover without much input needed. This will be one of the easiest cars to drive at speed - it was a little wet and I had fun dirt tracking the car around in full drift until they started pointing a furled black at me to calm it down.

Power was way down. I was running with 944 cars with track tires - pretty close to full race cars without cages. No intake or exhaust but great coil over kits. These guys were just as fast on the straights as I was. Granted they had a much better out corner than I did due to tires, but I was disappointed on the power. The car RPM'd up slow which is a sign of low HP. The car's motor is fine and pulls great for a Boxster. My concern is that in IT trim these cars do not get the 20hp or so that many other cars can achieve. The Boxster is pretty maxed from the factory.

Looks like a slow build while enjoying the car on the street. It has potential - I want to see if anybody who has done a full motor build is satisfied with the power. I think the trick to win will be outstanding handling and winning on the short, twisty tracks, while dogging it a little on the fast tracks.

lateapex911
04-08-2008, 12:39 PM
.........., but I was disappointed on the power. ...........

Spoken like a true SPO guy!

924Guy
04-08-2008, 01:00 PM
LOL! Yeah, sounds like you need to try out an ITB Porsche sometime... ;)

JeffYoung
04-08-2008, 01:07 PM
In stock street trim, even the 201 hp models rev just fine. Sounds like you may have fueling or spark issues.

Were you running a hard top? You'll notice a significant disadvantage above 100 mph if you do not.

Weight? Were those 944 track cars stripped down? If so, you may be looking at a car with a much closer power/weight ratio to yours, now, than you think.

benspeed
04-08-2008, 01:20 PM
The car ran flawlessly so I don't think there's any problems with the motor. Jake's right - I'm used to gobs of power and may have forgotten what 175HP at the wheels is like. Plus tires - can't use power without grip.

I didn't run the hardtop because they wanted to do the head clearance test but I bet the hardtop will help reduce drag. The car did run up to about 120mph on the straight. I also wonder if the little speed activated spoiler is nothing but drag.

The 944 guys weren't stripped - just great suspension packages on street cars - JRZs on two of them. Of course, they may not be admitting half of what they've done with their cars....some of the average 944 cars were only a tick slower.

It's got potential - next track event I'll run the hardtop and some DOT slicks. Track tires will really give me a better read.

bamfp
01-30-2012, 10:51 PM
As close to an ITR Boxster as I could get. I built this at work after hours. It was mostly built as a Spec Boxster. I finally got to drive it last weekend. It is a very easy and fun car to drive. It sounds really good as well. I think it has potential in ITR. I turned high 1:24's and Roebling Road on Toyo R888's. I was taking it easy since the car is already sold and it was just a shake down.


http://vimeo.com/35854579

Blake Meredith

lateapex911
01-31-2012, 01:47 AM
OK, considering Kip Van S holds the RR track record at a 1:19.5-ish,

And you were driving a car that wasn't yours, and you haven't done all the dev work, and you're down 20 HP,and you were on Toyos, I can see the car getting close.
Whats the big dog in ITR these days? What's it put down for power?

bamfp
07-20-2013, 09:22 PM
Bumping this back up. I have built a real ITR Boxster. First event is at CMS in August. Still has a stock engine but all IT legal mods minus the ECU.

lateapex911
07-21-2013, 01:11 AM
Nice car!
That your 'hood???
Pretty sweet!

Ron Earp
07-21-2013, 07:58 AM
Cool! It'll be great to see it at CMS.

Knestis
07-21-2013, 12:19 PM
"It's a couple little scratches."

"It's a Porsche!"

"Sir, it's a BOXTER."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TpuDZZyrToM


:D

K

bamfp
07-21-2013, 08:00 PM
Nice car!
That your 'hood???
Pretty sweet!

Thanks. I am really excited to see how it does on the track.

eprodrx7
04-11-2014, 05:47 PM
Is the 987 Boxster (05-08 2.7l)classified?

lateapex911
04-12-2014, 03:21 PM
Is the 987 Boxster (05-08 2.7l)classified?

You can go online and look it up, but I seriously doubt it. Too fast for ITR, I think. Engine too large (as is) for STL. So STU would be the clo$est thing.

lateapex911
04-12-2014, 03:21 PM
"It's a couple little scratches."

"It's a Porsche!"

"Sir, it's a BOXTER."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TpuDZZyrToM


:D

K
hahaha, missed this earlier...

bamfp
04-12-2014, 05:27 PM
The 00-01 makes 217
02-03 makes 225
05-06 makes 237
and 07-08 makes 241

So you might be able to get it classed. I know the 00-02 is classed already.

CRallo
04-13-2014, 10:08 AM
Me too... That was a good LOL


hahaha, missed this earlier...


and John, look it up yo damn self! :p