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dazzlesa
09-24-2006, 07:44 AM
for a 20 foot or 24 foot enclosed trailer what do you need to pull it? 1500, 2500 or 3500 series?
5.4l or 6 liter or diesal? i also use it for work to run around nyc, so a overly stiff truck would be a pain in the ass.
gas mileage for gas compared to diesal?
also standard hitch or 5th wheel?
help???????????
rick

Greg Amy
09-24-2006, 08:08 AM
Rick, I suggest you want something with torque. I pull my 24' enclosed with an earlier-version Ford V-10 van (which is derated versus the F-series) and it's "adequate"; I just don't see pulling that comfortably with a V-8. Within Ford, I suggest a later-model V10 or the Powerstroke diesel would be much preferred.

As for chassis, today's "-250" or "2500" (3/4 ton) is a very capable truck, comparable to commercial-grade stuff of a few years ago. Buy a 3/4 and I don't think you'll give up anything in terms of capacity to safely tow your 24-footer, plus the ride may be a bit better. You'll want the one-ton if you'll ever pull a multi-car trailer, but for a single-car 24-footer with 7,000-10,000 GVW the 3/4 is plenty truck.

Within Ford, the PS and the V10 are available in the 3/4- and 1-ton, but I don't think you can get either of those engines in the smaller -150 1/2-ton. My advice: buy the drivetrain of your choice first, then buy the appropriate truck to put around it.

Tagalong versus fiver/gooseneck: tagalong is fine for a 24' 7k-10k. If you want a fiver then you'll get more interior room (at a significantly higher price). However, my 24' enclosed tagalong has plenty of interior space, even with built-in cabinets.

GA

BMW RACER
09-24-2006, 10:16 AM
When I bought my current tow vehicle I also needed it for us as a shop vehicle for shuttling cutomers around Los Angeles. I have a 20'box TPD tag trailer tag. I was looking for the biggest motor in the smallest vehicle. I've always liked Fords. So, I got a 2003 Ford F250 Extended cab, short bed Powerstroke and I love it! It's the same length overall as an Excursion, with the extended cab I can haul people (short distances) and secure stuff.

It gets 12-15 MPG around town. 18-20 on the highway. Towing it gets 12MPG. A friend borrowed my trailer and towed it with his F250 V10 and the BEST he got was 6.5MPG!

The deisel has torque up the you know what! This thing will pull my fully loaded trailer up the Grapevine (A BIG long hill) at 70 mph with the cruise control set and the A/C on!

It's a little on the big side and it does ride like a truck, but it's managable.

When it comes to size, milage and towing capacity the F250 deisel is hard to beat.

charrbq
09-24-2006, 12:03 PM
With an enclosed trailer of that size, regardless of the load inside, I wouldn't go with anything less that a 3/4 ton, or better, a 1 ton chassis. And nothing smaller than a 6 liter engine. Gm has a good 6 ltr V8, Ford a good 6 ltr V10, and Dodge a good 5.7ltr Hemi. Each has an excellent diesel. I tow my open trailer with a half ton GMC that it also my daily driver. I've tried towing an enclosed trailer with it...no good. Plenty of power, but you can feel the trailer beating up that light chassis all the way down the road. The bigger truck is rougher and more expensive to purchase/operate than the 1/2 ton, but it tows a larger load with style and grace.

By the way...you loose any room you might want for carrying/storage in the bed of a pickup if you tow with a fifth wheel, but my friends who tow with both a 5th and a tag along say the the 5th wheel is the best way to go.

JoshS
09-24-2006, 12:36 PM
You'll want the one-ton if you'll ever pull a multi-car trailer, but for a single-car 24-footer with 7,000-10,000 GVW the 3/4 is plenty truck.
[/b]

Last year, we towed our 40' 2-car aluminum gooseneck (it's for sale (http://www.godoggoracing.org/forsale.html), BTW) with a GMC diesel 1-ton dually.

But this year, we're pulling the same trailer, with two much heavier cars, with a GMC diesel 3/4-ton, and you know what? I like it a LOT better with this truck than with the dually.

The modern 3/4-ton diesels are amazing trucks.

Jeremy Billiel
09-24-2006, 01:59 PM
But this year, we're pulling the same trailer, with two much heavier cars, with a GMC diesel 3/4-ton, and you know what? I like it a LOT better with this truck than with the dually.

The modern 3/4-ton diesels are amazing trucks.
[/b]

is the 3/4 Ton a Dually? If Not I am suprised. I would think a SRW truck wounldn't be a stable pulling that large trailer around.

JoshS
09-24-2006, 02:27 PM
is the 3/4 Ton a Dually? If Not I am suprised. I would think a SRW truck wounldn't be a stable pulling that large trailer around.[/b]
It's an SRW. I don't think anyone sells a 3/4T dually. We did add higher capacity tires and air springs.

The ride is MUCH better than the dually was, and the rig is really stable (gooseneck, etc). Trailer weighs about 14K loaded, I think. Only 6K empty, which is very light for a trailer this big.

I think it's a really good trailer, which helps with stability, of course.

Eric Parham
09-24-2006, 02:46 PM
I think the stability of a 5th wheel trailer is helped by the placement of the weight over all 4 wheels (much like a weight-distributing hitch with a tag). Thus, dually not needed unless hitch loading is going to be huge. Another advantage of a SRW truck over a dually is that it can run on the parkways in the NE (without the trailer, of course, and as long as properly plated). Add to that the original poster's NYC location and parking restrictions, and SRW looks like the much better choice.

As for me, after fighting tow-vehicle issues most of the year since I went from an open to a 24-ft enclosed, I finally coaxed my old Jeep 5.2L AWD V8 to pull at my desired speeds without overheating by deleting the AC condenser (well after upgrading to HD 3-core rad and cold stat). I never used the AC anyway. I really do love having an SUV as a tow vehicle. Anything larger or less powerful just wouldn't work out for me.

Gas mileages:
CC at 75: 17mpg
Normal Driving: 15mpg
Towing open: 14-15mpg
Towing enclosed: 6-8mpg (ouch)

JoshS
09-24-2006, 05:09 PM
As for me, after fighting tow-vehicle issues most of the year since I went from an open to a 24-ft enclosed, I finally coaxed my old Jeep 5.2L AWD V8 to pull at my desired speeds without overheating by deleting the AC condenser (well after upgrading to HD 3-core rad and cold stat). I never used the AC anyway. I really do love having an SUV as a tow vehicle. Anything larger or less powerful just wouldn't work out for me.
[/b]
Wow, it would scare me to tow a 24' trailer (even an open one) with a wheelbase as short as a Jeep (any Jeep).

Eric Parham
09-24-2006, 07:50 PM
Wow, it would scare me to tow a 24' trailer (even an open one) with a wheelbase as short as a Jeep (any Jeep).
[/b]

I really don't think wheelbase has much to do with it (I do use a good weight-distributing hitch and admit that poor weight distribution might otherwise cause problems). I recall one year we were absolutely flying on our way to an ice racing enduro waaay up north. It was a blizzard, and traffic was jammed up in the only plowed lane. The only way to get to the race on time was to use the unplowed lane, and the Jeep/trailer (open one at that time) handled it with absolute ease. No stability problems whatsoever.

Edit: I am talking about a Jeep Grand Cherokee (not a Wrangler).

JamesB
09-25-2006, 08:49 AM
Pulled a pretty loaded up 20' with my titan. There are a few using 1/2 tons to pull 24' trailers but most need leveler bars and the right gearing. The titan did well towing to the glen with that trailer. Its a friends trailer and even his F150 seems to do ok with it. But at this point if I go enclosed will likely ditch the gasser and get a diesel.

zracre
09-25-2006, 09:21 AM
F350 Diesel dually...It pulls the 48' 5th like a dream! If I just pull my car on the open trailer its like it isn't even there! I have pulled some large trailers with my work Tundra with good results (and it drives like a sports car)

matt batson
09-25-2006, 12:38 PM
toyota may be coming out with a deisel for it's tundra in a year or two.
I would think this would be a great compromise with an aluminum 20 foot enclosed.

May not be able to do 75 towing down the highway...but the rest of your daily driving would be a lot easier and more practical then driving an 8000lb 3/4 ton.

I know the big trucks tow better...but if your towing once a month or less...You may consider the importance of the vast majority of your driving.

DavidM
09-25-2006, 12:52 PM
When I was looking at trucks the one comment somebody had that stuck with me was you'll never (or at least rarely) hear somebody say they have too much truck. On the other hand, people all the time say they don't have enough truck. So I'd say get the biggest thing you can afford. I'd go with at least a 3/4 ton to pull a 20'+ enclosed trailer. I like the diesels myself.

As far as the Ford trucks, a single rear-wheel 350 is pretty much the same as a 250 with a bigger block on the leaf springs in back. I started out looking for a 250, but there are so many more 350s out there that the 350s are pretty much the same price as the 250s. The duallys will be more stable pulling, but can be a pain on narrow roads. I wouldn't want a dually if I was going to be driving it in downtown Atlanta everyday.

I found that, in my area - metro Atlanta - at least, the F350/250 prices were much less than comparable Dodge/Chevy trucks. I think it's mostly due to the fact that there were 4-5 times more Ford trucks.

David

nlevine
09-26-2006, 01:06 PM
Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab, 5.7L Hemi, 3.90 gears (4x4 off-road package - got the package to get the gears) pulling a 20 ft TPD enclosed. Tows fine with a weight-distributing hitch and the ride is quite comfortable. The 2500s I looked at all had snow-plow-prep packages on them at the dealer and rode pretty poorly, but you could get 4.10 gears with the 2500..

If I was doing a bunch more events per year at tracks farther away, I might consider a 3/4 ton diesel, but I've got no complaints now.

-noam

Doc Bro
09-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Rick, get more truck than you need. You're not a guy who's afraid to race and travel. You need something that will be up for the task. You saw my f350 and 28' enclosed last LRP. It's a lot of truck but it's designed to do what we do with them. Go diesel. The f350 is VERY stiff for the first couple thousand miles but it settles in as it gets usage. The suspension is no where near as stiff as it was when it was new. Also, rumor has it that the f150 will be available with a small diesl in late 07 or 08. Oh yeah, I went with the 28 because it's really easy to resell to the circle trackers- they really don't consider anything smaller than 24'.

R

Z3_GoCar
09-27-2006, 06:14 PM
I'm using a 1994 Chevrolet S-10 (178k mi) with a Carson Trailer standard car-hauler open trailer. I've pulled the Tehachapi grade about a half-dozen times both ways, taken 46 to 101 same as James Dean, and over 14 to the L.A. area another half-dozen times over the past couple of weeks. With a 4.3l V-6 and 3.72 gears it's a good tow, very evenly matched to the trucks ability. Now if I had an enclosed it would be a beast of a different color, another truck would then be required. I went the open trailer route as I already had this truck and adding a trailer was easier than getting both. Be careful as some guy's found out this summer that above a total gross weight requiers a commercial license, something like 19,000 lbs comes to mind and that's total gross weight so 8k for the truck and 8k for the trailer/race car leaves only 3k for fuel, passengers, and any other cargo. These guy's tried to skate by as they were using toter-homes and not getting away with it, but a two ton truck with 5th wheel would have the same kind of issues.

James

Jeremy Billiel
09-27-2006, 08:05 PM
James - I do not believe you need a CDL unless you are commercially moving equipment. For our race cars this is not neccessary I believe. Perhaps each state is different.

Z3_GoCar
09-28-2006, 04:27 PM
James - I do not believe you need a CDL unless you are commercially moving equipment. For our race cars this is not neccessary I believe. Perhaps each state is different.
[/b]

Sorry, the limit is lower than I stated it's over 10,000lbs. The thread can be found here: (http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/viewtopic.php?t=6245)

Best bet is to fly as far under the radar as you can.

and here's the post that starts it:

Yes, everyone/anyone can tow anything with anything UNTIL you get popped/stopped/inspected/whatever.

There is never a "good" time to get hassled. In that area we were "lucky"?? -- In route to a race we did not HAVE to run, essentially end of our season, and would have a few months off where we did not HAVE to go anywhere.

I have spent MANY hours on the internet, printed reams of paper already, and spent hours on the phone. -- MANY more hours to go, then many thousands of dollars will need to be spent.

Because we got "popped", I decided to really look into whatever "rig" I would need to be REALLY legal so we would NOT have to be stopped and hassled again anywhere.
-- Stay with Toter, go crew cab dually then tag or 5th wheel, motorhome + box, single big box with car inside, etc. etc.

The results are NOT nice.
The people I have spoken to so far were (all California DMV and Highway Patrol, but VERY up on Federal DOT regs) : a commercial vehicle "specialist", a motor carrier "specialist", and a HazMat "specialist".

IF you ALWAYS stay WITHIN your own state, I can not tell you what all applies.
IF you EVER cross a state line with your race car then the following ALL applies to YOU, and ANYONE driving the tow vehicle !!!

---
(From printed regs faxed to me)
"The International Registration Plan (IRP) is an agreement among the states to uniformly administer registration laws for commercial vehicles that travel interstate. The IRP agreement defines recreational vehicle as being exempt from commercial registration when used by and individual or his/her family for recreational purposes. A vehicle used in conjunction with a business endeavor does not meet this definition. A business endeavor can be defined by monetary investments made with the expectation that some return on this investment will occur."

I was told point blank that "some return" is ANYTHING.
Manufacturer money;
SCCA tow money;
A free tire;
Claiming ANY deduction on ANY taxes relating to ANYTHING about the vehicle, trailer, or car;
A quart of oil;
A T-shirt;
A hat;
A pen;
A free dinner;
A DISCOUNT on parts -- etc.
Has NOTHING to do with PROFIT, and absolutely does NOT have to be dollars.

A VERY key word is "EXPECTATION" - you ABSOLUTELY do NOT have to ever GET anything, just have an expectation of EVER GETTING ANYTHING.
I was told there is NO way ANY of us are going to be able to talk our way out of THAT -- !!!

Then:
ANY commercial vehicle used in a business endeavor (see above) requires a class "A" license in California. (Log books, max drive time, etc., and do not forget the IRP above is FEDERAL -- ALL states if you cross a state line) if it is over 10,000 lbs GVWCR -- That means Gross Vehicle Weight COMBINED RATING -- Yes, truck, trailer, car, tools, spares, + PEOPLE has to be UNDER 10,001 lbs.
(Sample: GMC extended cab 3/4 ton = 7K ?GVWR, small trailer = 2K, car at 2.5K, spares + one person = .5k, total = 12K !!!)
If you are driving a vehicle that requires a commercial license, then THAT vehicle MUST be registered as commercial (so I can't even keep the toter registered as a motorhome).
Because the vehicle is commercial, and driven across state lines, you MUST have a Motor Carrier Permit.
Because you have a MCP you must do the whole IFTA (International Fuel Tax Authority) B.S. which is a permit, full recording of miles, where, when, tax paid, etc. AND file QUARTERLY returns with the IFTA.


HazMat guy gave the only semi-positive answer --
The maximum we can transport (without needing endorsements and placards) is 440 POUNDS aggregate (material + container) TOTAL of gasoline (maximum individual container size of 8 gallons, but must be "approved" container), Nitrogen, and CO2 (max container of 220 pounds).
ALSO: a fuel cell OR a gas tank is "not an approved container" for gasoline
transportation on the highway (NOT JOKING), and it's over 8 gallons which is the container max limit).


He said: "You DO pump all the gas out of the cars BEFORE you leave, DON'T YOU??" (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

Also, just to brighten your day, ALL commercial vehicle owners / Motor Carriers must carry a minimum of $750,000 liablilty policy, and carry proof of it with you.

More to come as I progress through this ---
_________________
Dave Lemon
www.mazdatrix.com
E/P RX7 Convertible
'85 12A Pro7-Now a 13B NASA PTsomething
20B Bridge Blower Drag Car-on display - engine going in Drift Car)
(Drag racing is boring)
Sometimes working on/building my 3-Rotor Bridge Port '86 Drift Car
************************************************** **************************

Sad isn't it.

James

RSTPerformance
09-28-2006, 05:24 PM
(From printed regs faxed to me)
"The International Registration Plan (IRP) is an agreement among the states to uniformly administer registration laws for commercial vehicles that travel interstate. The IRP agreement defines recreational vehicle as being exempt from commercial registration when used by and individual or his/her family for recreational purposes. A vehicle used in conjunction with a business endeavor does not meet this definition. A business endeavor can be defined by monetary investments made with the expectation that some return on this investment will occur."

I was told point blank that "some return" is ANYTHING.
Manufacturer money;
SCCA tow money;
A free tire;
Claiming ANY deduction on ANY taxes relating to ANYTHING about the vehicle, trailer, or car;
A quart of oil;
A T-shirt;
A hat;
A pen;
A free dinner;
A DISCOUNT on parts -- etc.
Has NOTHING to do with PROFIT, and absolutely does NOT have to be dollars.

A VERY key word is "EXPECTATION" - you ABSOLUTELY do NOT have to ever GET anything, just have an expectation of EVER GETTING ANYTHING.
I was told there is NO way ANY of us are going to be able to talk our way out of THAT -- !!!
[/b]

I am not going to touch this, but... You talked to some very anal people who I guess are being nice by telling you the letter of the law... I appreciate those that do the wink wink nod nod. Granted to he letter of the rules nerd law you may be illigal but stay away from considering yourself a commercial vehicle at all costs. As someone who runs a public bus system I understand all the "analities" (my new word) of operating a CDL vehicle.

FYI: I never "expect" to gain anything:

1) I gome home happy if I do get something
2) I am not unhappy if I don't get anything
3) I am no longer a CDL vehicle :happy204:

Good Luck to all;

Raymond "The cops are busy at weigh stations, so pick up the pace so you make it buy before they lift thier head and see you!!!" Blethen

PS: Also, I think you will find that if you look into things you will find that in some cases it doesn't matter what you expect at the track (revenue and what not) it is weather or not you expect or are getting a return on the transportation part of your trip. IE: Transporting a passenger or product for a fee = CDL, Winning something while racing in a race car has nothing to do with transportation and/or your vehicle, thus NO CDL required. Employee getting paid to drive a vehicle = CDL, friend driving a personal truck/vehicle NO CDL.

lateapex911
09-28-2006, 06:02 PM
I like the part about having to empty my gas tank when my car travels over the interstate on it's open trailer!! that MAKES sense, lol

Can't we reassign these geeks to finding Bin Laden or something semi useful??

Z3_GoCar
09-28-2006, 06:44 PM
Raymond,

I'm not directly involved in this, Dave Lemons is a national level EP racer from our division. The story on the stop is that he was traveling East on Hwy. 40 near Flagstaff for an event he didn't need to run when he was caught in sting by Federally trained Arizona officers. His vehicle had private motorhome plates and "Not For Commercial Use" on it, but the officers would not let them proceede and insisted that only someone with a CDL would be allowed to drive the vehicle back to California. This is on the second page of the thread if I recall correctly. Again, best bet is stay as low as you can.

James

RSTPerformance
09-28-2006, 08:09 PM
Arizona huh... they must be tough. I was in a rental car out thier once on a road trip with a past girlfriend, and she was driving. The SUV was rented in my name. She got pulled over doing 85mph, and they wanted to tow the vehicle in the middle of the friggen desert because she was driving and not on the rental agreement. I was a bit pissed but stayed sivel. She got a ticket and I drove the rest of the trip.

Fun fun... new rules, stay out of arizona!!!

Raymond " I do think all these stories are educational, anlthough they really piss me off that old joe blow can drive his 45' motorhome coach and we can't tow a friggen open trailer." Blethen

x-ring
09-29-2006, 07:40 AM
" I do think all these stories are educational, anlthough they really piss me off that old joe blow can drive his 45' motorhome coach and we can't tow a friggen open trailer."
[/b]

It the AARP lobby :P

joeg
09-29-2006, 12:46 PM
Hey..I belong to AARP!

dazzlesa
10-02-2006, 08:10 PM
Pulled a pretty loaded up 20' with my titan. There are a few using 1/2 tons to pull 24' trailers but most need leveler bars and the right gearing. The titan did well towing to the glen with that trailer. Its a friends trailer and even his F150 seems to do ok with it. But at this point if I go enclosed will likely ditch the gasser and get a diesel.
[/b]


i currently have a Titan with the 9500lb tow capacity. would you keep it for a 20 foot or trade up to a 3/4 ton diesal? some of the 20 trailers i see have a gvw of 7000. the car is 2400 plus the trailer 3000 plus gear 1600?. i actually came across a 2004 2500hd gmc diesal with 4k at a nice price.

dickita15
10-03-2006, 06:54 AM
Rick, you really have two issues, the truck needs to be heavy enough so the trailer does not push it around and is the motor strong enough to tow with the ease you want. I am pulling a 24’ trailer that I would guess is around 7000 pounds with a 2500 dodge with the base hemi rated to tow 9100 pounds. The truck handles the trailer fine. I used to use a v8 dakota as a back up tow vehicle and the trailer pushed the truck all over the road. The 2500 will drive all day at 70 although it need to down shift for hills. For $5000 more I could have bought the diesel and had more torque but I am not sure it was worth the difference for 6 to 10 trips a year.

Bill Miller
10-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Given the option ($$$ notwithstanding), to me the choice is obvious, go diesel. I'm not sure it matters if it's a Ford/Chevy/Dodge (although I've heard to stay away from Dodges), but I think having the disel is key, if you're going to be towing anything big. I towed my 10k GVW 24' Haulmark w/ my GMC K1500 w/a TBI 350. Did it work? Yes. Do I think it would have worked long-term? No.

I'm not sure of the gas mileage on the Ford V10 gasser, but I have a friend w/ a K2500 HD GMC w/ their 6.0 V8 motor, and he hates the mileage, and he doesn't tow anything. A couple of years ago, I went to the June Sprints w/ John Weisberg. We towed his EP 2nd gen RX7 in his 24' trailer behind a 2500 2WD Suburban w/ a 454 Vortec motor. Towed great, but we never got over 7 mpg w/ it!!!

Everybody I know that tows w/ an oil burner says they don't even know the trailer is back there, and they're all getting double-digit mpg while towing. I can vouch for this, as I shared some of the driving to Moroso a few years back. F350 crew-cab dually w/ an early PS disel pulling a 44' tri-axle 5th. Ran down the highway like a dream. IIRC, we got ~10 mpg running at 75-80 mph, and were able to get ~12 mpg if we'd run at 60 - 65 mph.

The other thing I'm pretty firm about, is that if I'm going to have a truck, it will be 4WD. I know it costs more, and will eat at the mpg, but you'll wish you had it the first time you get stuck in some muddy paddock.

I saw a rig for sale in the classifieds. F250 PS w/ a 24' trailer. The guy was from Albany, NY, and the truck was a 2WD. Unless you only use the truck for towing, (I WISH I could be able to afford to do that), I just can't see getting something that you can use other times.

My pick right now would be an F250 extra cab w/ an 8' bed, 4WD, and a PS

JamesB
10-17-2006, 08:44 AM
i currently have a Titan with the 9500lb tow capacity. would you keep it for a 20 foot or trade up to a 3/4 ton diesal? some of the 20 trailers i see have a gvw of 7000. the car is 2400 plus the trailer 3000 plus gear 1600?. i actually came across a 2004 2500hd gmc diesal with 4k at a nice price.
[/b]

I actually can say that its not bad but you WILL need load leveler bars at the least and anti sway isnt half bad on winding roads (I think we where one of the few rigs not wagging the dog.)

I pulled a 20' trailer, 2300# car, tires, clothes, and spares (maybe 1400#) and two adults and we averaged 12mpg towing from Winchester VA to Watkins Glen, NY. Thats basically 81 to 15N and through the hills so I was very impressed with my truck.

Long term I would go with a diesel but thats out of my budget right now.

Jeremy Billiel
10-17-2006, 11:45 AM
I recently went through the painful process of deciding what my future truck was going to be. I agree with Bill 100%. I bought a F350 Diesel SuperCab 4x4. Do I really need 4 wheel drive? No, I will probably only use it 5 times a year in the snow/mud. The Ford V10 gassers get HORRIBLE gas milage. I currently am in the market for an enclosed trailer, but I know pulling my open trailer I got 14 MPG at 80 MPH the whole way. I currently get 15-16 MPG daily driving with nothing in the bed.

mlytle
10-17-2006, 02:40 PM
I recently went through the painful process of deciding what my future truck was going to be. I agree with Bill 100%. I bought a F350 Diesel SuperCab 4x4. Do I really need 4 wheel drive? No, I will probably only use it 5 times a year in the snow/mud. The Ford V10 gassers get HORRIBLE gas milage. I currently am in the market for an enclosed trailer, but I know pulling my open trailer I got 14 MPG at 80 MPH the whole way. I currently get 15-16 MPG daily driving with nothing in the bed.
[/b]

ditto. i went through jeep grand cherokee's, a k2500 big block suburban and now an f250 diesel crew cab long bed 4x4 as i ascended through the open/20' enclosed/26' enclosed trailer ranks. i should have just bit the bullet and got a diesel in the first place. it is SO much better for the job than the other vehicles. i also agree on the "get 4x4" comments. all of my tow vehicles have had 4 wheel drive and it has been used frequently in muddy paddocks, wet grassy storage areas and to pull other people's 2 wheel drive tow vehicles out of "situations".

if you are going to be racing a long time...you will eventually end up in a diesel tow vehicle. save yourself the expensive learning experience and find the resources to get one first....;)

Hangfire1
10-19-2006, 01:36 AM
I test drove a late (2004 or maybe 05) Chevy 3500 dually diesel quad cab before deciding that a class C motorhome would suit me better in the long run. Anyway, the 3500 drove almost the same as my 97 Chev 1500...

As for the mh, it's a 26' 1988 Ford Econoline 350 7.5l (gas) w/3spd AT. I traveled from SF Bay Area to NASA Nationals in Ohio and back (+/- 5400 miles) towing a Civic on a flatbed trailer and had almost zero problems. A little struggle on the big hills, otherwise tows great... I averaged about 6.5 mpg on my round trip.

Guy at the track had a similar setup, only he was towing a Porsche in an enclosed trailer, about 24'. He had load distributing hitch and some suspension work, not sure how elaborate but I could see an absolutely HUMONGOUS front anti roll bar, by an outfit in Oregon, says he gets around 5 mpg...

Happy trails

Dave R

Wreckerboy
10-19-2006, 10:47 AM
I've got to say that the stories of the V10 FoMoCo's getting horrendous gas mileage are more related to what chassis they are in than the motor itself. Somebody above posted that their V10 truck is killing them on fuel. I'm not doubting that for a minute.

That hasn't been my experience, but I'm not in an AWD huge freekin' pick-em-up, either. I have a late ('04) E-350 van that gets 14-15 on the highway when empty, and similar MPG when towing a open 24 ft. steel trailer with the car on it. In fact, the worst mileage I've seen is 12, and that was running through the mountains coming home from BeaveRun. At 80. With the air and the cruise on.

Would I like a diesel? Sure, gotta love that clackety clatter. Is it worth the five grand premium those trucks are commanding, even used? Not for my usage - I put less than 5K miles on the truck this year. At that rate my grandchildren wouldn't see the ROI. Your mileage, of course, may vary. That, and the torque numbers for the V10 vs. the diesel are very similar, and according to the Ford forums the newer diesels (everything after the old 7.3 Powersmokes, basically) are not the happiest campers in the world.

Greg Amy
10-19-2006, 12:26 PM
Same here. I&#39;ve got the (earlier two-valve) V10 in my &#39;99 E-350, and I see 13-14 highway with family in the back, ~7-8 when towing an enclosed 24-footer. Sure, I&#39;d like a diesel, but when I sit down and think about how much it would cost me (I bought this van with 29k miles for <$10k) it just don&#39;t compute.

With the price of gas literally plummeting these last few weeks, my round-trip to the ARRC this year should cost me about $175 more in fuel than it will for my buddy Joe in his Dodge/Cummins (pulling the same trailer)...

Despr8dave
10-19-2006, 02:25 PM
I&#39;m in the RV business and see a fare amount of trucks and trailors, mainly fifth wheels. I currently am in the market for a used F250 crew cab diesel and a fifth wheel enclosed car hauler. I prefer to tow a fifth wheel over bumper hitch and you can use the area around the hitch for storage, as long as it is all under the highth of the side rails. They are much easier to hook up and you don&#39;t need weight distribution bars or sway bar, which we feel you should always use on a bumper pull, even though most of us don&#39;t. The diesels do cost more, but resale on a v-10 Ford or Dodge is horrendous. Our wholesalers are generally $2000 BEHIND used rough book for the v-10s!!! For daily driving, as I will do with mine, the ride is a little more harsh than my Mustang, but much better than a duelly. I see alot of heavy fifth wheels being towed with single rear wheels. According to the charts, with equal gear ratios, srw and drw have almost identical towing capacities. Some srws actually have a higher cargo capacity than equal drw models because of the extra weight of the two extra tires! I&#39;m gonna pay more for the diesel, but I&#39;m gonna get better mileage and most likely will not have to advertise it whenever I go to sell it, if I ever do. IMHO.

David