Front Stay Rod

[JamesB]

This has been one item on the car I would like to look into over the winter but one im not 100% sure on.

I know the front end of the mk2 golf can benifit from a front stay rod. However, I wonder where its most usefull at the shock towers or the front control arm pickup points.

The reason I contemplate this is I remember when I installed and upper mount on my mk2 GLI. it felt ok, but really wasnt anything special. But when I finally put in a lower bar it made a world of difference in the turn in and stability of the car. Now I wonder if the benifit will be the same without the upper bar in.

Since we have a decent amount of VW racers here I figured I would like to hear your input and reasons why you with with an upper or lower bar.

[racer_tim]

James, a front "stay rod" is different than a "stress bar". The stay rod is to help the motor from shifting forward and rearward upon torque acceleration and deceleration. The upper nad lower stress bars are to keep the front end from tweaking in the corners. I seem to remember that you only were allowed 1 of these devices, but I haven't been in IT for a couple of years.

I run an upper stress bar between the upper shock mounts on my A1 Wabbit, and just happen to have one on the bottom, that's the lower sway bar mount. I don't run a stay rod, but have gone with poly engine / tranny mounts on all 4 sides.

[itracer]

I don't know if you saw it, but here is some info from a previous thread:

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...topic=8294&st=0 (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8294&st=0)

The upper bar seems to be your best bet on the A2. If you are talking about tie bars and not engine stay rods.

[JamesB]

Yes I mean stress bar.

But I used the rules definition in my post rather then normal slang.


From ITCS page 9

5. Cars may add one (1) front stayrod, located in one of the
following areas:
A. Between lower suspensions mounting points.
B. Between the upper strut towers on Mac-Pherson
strut equipped cars.
C. Between upper front shock absorber mounts on cars
with other forms of suspension.
[/b]


However the last thread I read and I got two opinions. so that why I asked directly about the stress bar. I know the MK2 has a subframe which flexes as much as the strut towers. So I guess I was wondering who chose the upper vs the lower and how much effect that had. I guess I will also need to call around and see what those that have races the mk2 say about it.

[Bill Miller]

James,

On a Mk I, given a choice of one, the lower bar is the way to go. Mk II's already have a subframe, so I'd go w/ the upper bar on your car. Talk to Matt, I'm sure he's got good info. I've never raced a Mk II, so I'm not sure what works best.

[JamesB]

And thats what logic would tell me, but I figured I would ask what others have experienced with the MK2. My only MK2 experience was the upper did help turn in but the lower added later with the upper made it very solid and cosistant in mid corner. Now since I can only have one I keep wondering upper or lower will give me the best. The reason im considering lower is at least then I dont have to build something custom around my camber plates.

[shwah]

I would definitely go with the lower on an A1. Heck VW even did this from the factory with the Scirocco 16v. There is just not enough support there at the control arm mounting points.

Feedback I have gotten on top bars is that they feel better, but typically do not make a significant change in lap times. There are a bunch of A2 guys that don't run any front stress bar for this reason (the subframe holds the bottom together pretty well).

[JamesB]

Well I am running a golf and I do feel front twisting under suspension load (learned that with autocross.) But I think im going to experiment since I have a lower bar that I can install. I have an upper too but that wont work with the camber plates.

[racer_tim]

On my A1, I was able to install the camber plates BELOW the strut tower, so I was able to use a standard upper stress bar

picture at

http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/2002/lf-camber-plate.jpg

I do have to run 6" springs on the fronts with the limited "travel" but as you can you can see, no welding was required. :D

[JamesB]

thats a pretty cool setup.

[shwah]

Well I am running a golf and I do feel front twisting under suspension load (learned that with autocross.) But I think im going to experiment since I have a lower bar that I can install. I have an upper too but that wont work with the camber plates.
[/b]
I will definitely llike to hear your results on this. It should be easy enough to make a top bar. Just bolt it to the camber plates and bend appropriately to clear the intake manifold. Could probably cut the ends of a street car one and fab up mounting points.

[JamesB]

well ill try the bottom first and see what it feels like.