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bobpink
08-22-2006, 10:23 PM
The unofficial 2006 ARRC schedule is posted on the main page of the website as a PDF file.

www.arrc-online.com

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 06:00 AM
Ow, ITS and ITA are racing together? Nearly 80% of the two fields completely overlap in times!

This is a terrible pairing; these cars will be completely intermixed during the race and will decisively and detrimentally affect the results of the race, especially in ITA!

But, hey, on the plus side, the Miatas have yet another group to race in...

dazzlesa
08-23-2006, 06:44 AM
maybe they will do a split start

zracre
08-23-2006, 06:54 AM
ITS and ITA are premier groups...they shouldn't change the format. We always run with ITS down here and it makes life difficult...it was always a big seller for me to have ITA as the fastest group...now it will be just another regional.. I will start sending letters...

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 07:08 AM
maybe they will do a split start[/b]

A nice idea, but it wouldn't help. Compare the times of the two groups from last year: you give ITS a 30-second head start and the ITA leaders will hit ITS traffic within 2-3 laps while the ITS leaders will hit ITA traffic within 4-6 laps. The ITA cars that need to keep up their momentum will be constantly balked, and the race *is* going to be decided outright by traffic conflicts.

I'm no event organizer, and i don't even play one on TV, but if you HAVE to combine classes for this race it seems to make much more sense to put together classes that have a clear distinction between lap times, say less than 50% overlap (like, maybe ITA and IT7...?). Then you start this group as one big one, not a split start (all a split start does is give leaders a few laps of clear track before conflicts arise anyway; thus, you make it a 5 lap sprint). Given the slower group started in the back the only folks the leaders of the faster class will catch are the slower group's stragglers, and the speed differential will be sufficient to minimize (but, unfortunately, not eliminate) conflicts.

I'm sure that the IT7 guys didn't like being with ITA, but I'm equally confident they like being with "ARRC Spec Miata" even less...

Each of the ITS and ITA races can be counted on being the best of the weekend; there's no reason to combine these and destroy both. - GA

zracre
08-23-2006, 07:13 AM
I agree...although I have lots of practice running with them... :rolleyes: could benefit me...hehehe

heres what a ITS/ITA start looks like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdGLyaM3I74

Joe Moser
08-23-2006, 07:34 AM
Combining ITA & ITS would effectively destroy any notion I had of this being a premier, "Championship" caliber event!

I am vehemently opposed to such grouping, it definitely turns this event into "just another regional". I understand that the schedule is subject to change, but I would hope it is changed immediately to avoid losing any entrants!

The IT ONLY classes have always offered (IMO) the best racing of the weekend! The other vehicles have always seemed like a side-show to me... why cater more to them? Why was this change made? To add an additional Miata class? They can already race in Groups 1, 4, 5 & 7.... They need their own Group 9?

I love the ARRC, I love the spirit of the competition, I love that it seems "different" than the other races each year. Please don't kill the 1 regional event that I plan the rest of my racing year on!

Bob, can we get some insight into this change?

- Joe Moser

Andy Bettencourt
08-23-2006, 07:54 AM
I agree with all of you. The time for action is NOW. If the supps have been approved by Topeka, you will have a real hard time getting anything changed but you need to apply professional but HUGE pressure immediately is anything is to be resubmitted to Topeka for approval.

Local IT drivers rep?

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 07:55 AM
I am vehemently opposed to such grouping...[/b]

Joe, you're the first person I thought of when I read this schedule. You will be totally screwed. Once you lose your momentum - and it will happen - cars like the Integra and NX will eat you alive. As we all saw last year, your only method of survival is in the corners...


They can already race in Groups 1, 4, 5 & 7.... They need their own Group 9?[/b]

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Maybe we should change the event name to ARRM...And before you guys start beating on me for hating Miatas - which I don't - take a moment read the ARRC's web site, especially its stated purpose:

The American Road Race of Champions welcomes drivers who compete in the Sports Car Club of America's regional-only roadracing classes. These classes follow a nationwide rules structure set forth in the SCCA's General Competition Rules, but do not compete in National races.

...and the description for ARRC Spec Miata:

...ARRC Spec Miata uses the National Spec Miata rules but requires no specific tire be used. In addition, drivers accepting entry to the National Runoffs in Spec Miata are not eligible to compete in the ARRC sprint races in ASM. Those drivers WOULD be able to enter ASM in the Pro-IT, “Miata Madness ” and/or Enduro events. They can also enter ITA or SSM for the sprint races as well.

What's next? ARRC T1, ARRC T2, ARRC T3, ARRC SSB, ARRC SSC, ad nausea for all the other drivers that can't go to Kansas? What's makes the Miata so special among National classes (except for their ability to spend a lot of money on entry fees...?)

It's your show, kids, you can most certainly run it as you want. You just better hope that the Miata fad dies long before the event name loses its luster and no one else shows up... rant off. - GA

R2 Racing
08-23-2006, 08:31 AM
Combining ITA and ITS is an absolutely horrible idea and I can't see the rational behind it. Spec Miata drivers were given the ability to go and run at the Runoffs and now, at our "Regional Runoff", they're being given even more? Huh? This is OUR championship event. The championship event for the regional drivers who have no where else to go and have nothing to call their own. By doing this, the ARRC is destroying what it worked so hard to create in the first place: A premiere event for regional only classes that is recognized by the people who race it as being their championship event, without any outside factors like overlapping 80% of the field with cars outside of their class, messing up their race.

ITA and ITS always made for two of the largest fields and two of the greatest races of the weekend. Why would you destory that? So Spec Miata drivers who already have their own official national championship elsewhere can run their car three or four times?

Seriously, who should the emails be directed to?

Andy Bettencourt
08-23-2006, 09:06 AM
I think the solution is simple. Let these guys know how you feel. The concensus is that it will lose it's "premier" and/or "championship" flavor with groupings like this - and you are right.

If you tell the PTB that without that, it is doubtful you will go...it can have an impact.

Frankly, if this stands, I would be more than happy to try an help organize an IT festival at Mid-Ohio with the help of SCCA Corp and bill it as a National Championship....

Butch Kummer
08-23-2006, 09:18 AM
I am the person responsible for the groupings and your message(s) have been received - no need for additional e-mails. I combined ITA & ITS because of car counts the past two years, not necessarily to give Miatas another race.

I assume ITA & IT7 play together pretty well (although there HAVE been issues there in years past). (A)SM tends to run in packs (which we realized when combining them with SRF earlier this year), so we need to be careful who we combine them with.

In 2005 we had the following counts in each group:

ITB - 19 + ITC - 13 = 32 total
SM - 48; that should be less this year
ITA - 28 + IT7 - 12 = 40 total
ITS - 24

Because of other commitments we need to fit those classes into three groups in 2006 and we're allowed a maximum of 67 cars per group. SSM will run in Group 1, which has plenty of room with only 16 entries last year.

The counts aren't the problem, so I guess the comparable relative speeds ARE the problem in combining ITA & ITS. I also know the ITB and ITC guys don't like running together, perhaps again for the same reason.

How about this (and I need to hear from the ITB and ITC guys as well)?

ASM & ITC
ITA & IT7
ITS & ITB

Split starts for all groups.

I cannot commit without discussing it with the ARRC Committee, but I CAN guarantee that your input will be considered before I send the Supps to Topeka for approval.

Butch Kummer
Atlanta Region Competition Director

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 09:22 AM
My immediate response is - WOW! Thanks for listening!

My next response is - oh crap, now I gotta give this some serious consideration and get back to you with reasonble input.

And I will.

Thank you. - GA

Andy Bettencourt
08-23-2006, 09:34 AM
I cannot commit without discussing it with the ARRC Committee, but I CAN guarantee that your input will be considered before I send the Supps to Topeka for approval.

Butch Kummer
Atlanta Region Competition Director [/b]

Now THAT is all anyone can ask for. MANY thanks.

AB

RSTPerformance
08-23-2006, 10:06 AM
Butch/Bob-

First I want to thank you for listening to what people have to say, it is great to have people working (volunteering) so hard for everyone!!! I must warn you though that everyone on here for the most part is with ITS and ITA, and I hate to be against what everyone here says, but frankly this website is VERY BIAST to ITS and ITA, with only a few outspoken people from ITB and almoast nobody from ITC. I think your original schedule was fine.

My Input:

I DON'T want to run with ITS, if we are forced to run with ITS our race will:

1) get cut short by being put a lap down, no questions asked. :bash_1_:

2)Traditionaly the fast ITB cars get stuck in mid pack ITS cars. This would be fine, however a lot of those mid pack ITS drivers have a few screws loose sometimes and can't get around the track without messing up the ITB race. Everyone can say what they want, but ask any ITB driver who has had to "deal" with ITS cars over the past years. In the Northeast we have figured out who to watch out for and we now stratagize our race based on using lousy ITS drivers as picks. It has become fun, but it is certainly fustrating at times. (This is in no reference to my race last weekend at NHIS where my mom misunderstood a comment I made, I did NOT have any issues last weekend at Lime Rock with the ITS drivers I raced with). :bash_1_:

3) The ITS race will definatly be messed up as this is a championship race, the leading or even mid pack ITB cars will NOT move out of the way for the ITS cars, this will certainly cause issues for any fast ITS driver who is lapping the field. :bash_1_:

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

I don't understand what has changed since prior years races... what is being changed and why?

ITB and ITC works great together. Both groupes have similar lap times, thus with a split start the leaders are generally not racing against each other and knowone gets lapped.

ITA and ITS works great together for the same reasons. Only problem is that ITA drivers whome want to win the overall race might not look like such a star as they feel they will get lost in the mid pack class lead, welcome to the general ITB/ITC ranks. :rolleyes:

Personally I like the SM idea, I thikn it is great to work into the weekend, however thier race groupe is with SSM correct? I don't see any need for them to have thier own race groupe... start the 67 cars for the sprint race if need be.

I may be being a bit of an @$$ or poor sport but If ITB is grouped with ITS you may loose 2 entrants in ITB. I am not interested in travaling 18+hours to battle with some ITS driver who can't get around a turn and blows me away on the streight. -again if you are in ITS and you don't like my comment sorry, its the truth. :dead_horse:

Raymond "you wanted input, that is the other side" Blethen

zracre
08-23-2006, 10:15 AM
I run in the SE where ITA and ITS are combined at EVERY race...see above video...our times are too similar and it would turn into a war of "he blocked me" and "I was racing for position" and "so was I" etc...see daytona video...it is the one race weekend they should put sm and ssm together or asm whatever...ITA and IT7 worked in years past for us in ITA (im not sure about the IT7 guys). This is the one weekend sabatical away from that for me...otherwise it is just another regional.

dazzlesa
08-23-2006, 10:31 AM
itb and its together stinks! the b leaders will catch the slower s cars.

Andy Bettencourt
08-23-2006, 10:34 AM
Why not just take the 2005 groupings add SSM to ITS? Here is why I think it works:

- SSM is bound to be small enough as to not overfill the RG

- SSM/SM's have high cornering speeds and won't hold up ITS cars

- ITS cars should be able to power by on the straights

- The speed differential coupled with the split start should keep clean racing for a long while.



The bottom line is that SOMEBODYS class has to be the slowest of a run-group and the top cars of that class will always tangle with the back-side of the 'faster' class...the PTB need to cater to the premier classes (what the definition of that is up for discussion and may be Region specific) in this respect.

AB

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 10:52 AM
I can see this will get ugly, no matter what happens. Name one slower class that wants to run with a faster one? The problem I read above is that ITB doesn't want to run with ITS because they're too much faster (and too slower); the ITA guys don't want to run with ITS because the times are too close (or not close enough.)

Face it: no one will get their own run group, especially the slower ITB and ITC classes. There's just too many cars that have to fit into a tight time budget. So, with that said, which faster group DO you want to run with?

For the record: I firmly believe that putting ITS and ITA together is a terrible idea, for all the reasons stated above. However, I also realize that by doing so you will be handing me a SIGNIFICANT competitive advantage, one that I will use to my extreme advantage...And THAT, my friends, really sucks on multiple levels.

I do not want to win a race because someone else got held up, but I'll do it without a bit of remorse.

GA

RSTPerformance
08-23-2006, 11:13 AM
Why not just take the 2005 groupings add SSM to ITS? Here is why I think it works:

- SSM is bound to be small enough as to not overfill the RG

- SSM/SM's have high cornering speeds and won't hold up ITS cars

- ITS cars should be able to power by on the straights

- The speed differential coupled with the split start should keep clean racing for a long while.



The bottom line is that SOMEBODYS class has to be the slowest of a run-group and the top cars of that class will always tangle with the back-side of the 'faster' class...the PTB need to cater to the premier classes (what the definition of that is up for discussion and may be Region specific) in this respect.

AB
[/b]

Andy your thoughts seem to make sence to me... but

What I don't understand is why SSM and SM can't run together? They are basically the same car, right? I still don't even understand why we have the 2 classes in the first place. It makes no sence to me that we have 4 "IT" classes for a bazion different makes/models and we have 2 miata classes not including the IT classes that a miata already fits into. Thats another story altogether though, but I still FIRMLY believe that SM and SSM should be grouped together.

as for the "bottom line" I agree but the issue comes up having cars on the track that don't mix well such as ITS and ITB. Major speed difference on the streight and then in the corners the ITB cars eat up the less driven ITS cars. its like ITS and AS together... Not so great IMO.

IMO the premier classes are ALL of the regional only classes, and no class should get a "better" rank just because it has more entries or more interest on the internet. Some of the best races in general that I have seen are ITC with only 4 cars in the group all battling for the lead. I also have to say I love the ITT class... way cool to see those trucks runnng around!!!

Raymond



I can see this will get ugly, no matter what happens. Name one slower class that wants to run with a faster one? The problem I read above is that ITB doesn't want to run with ITS because they're too much faster (and too slower); the ITA guys don't want to run with ITS because the times are too close (or not close enough.)

Face it: no one will get their own run group, especially the slower ITB and ITC classes. There's just too many cars that have to fit into a tight time budget. So, with that said, which faster group DO you want to run with?

For the record: I firmly believe that putting ITS and ITA together is a terrible idea, for all the reasons stated above. However, I also realize that by doing so you will be handing me a SIGNIFICANT competitive advantage, one that I will use to my extreme advantage...And THAT, my friends, really sucks on multiple levels.

I do not want to win a race because someone else got held up, but I'll do it without a bit of remorse.

GA
[/b]

Greg-

I firmly believe that if classes have to be combined it should be ITA/ITS and ITB/ITC with split starts. equal lap time cars wont catch each other or hold each other up in this case, and the leaders in both groupes should get a full race in without being lapped.

If need be put SSM & SM with ITB and ITC just don't put ITB with ITS or ITA!!!

Raymond

PS: Greg how is it possible that running with ITS will give you an advantage? That doesn't make sence with me...

charrbq
08-23-2006, 11:19 AM
In a rare moment of time, I agree with Andy. Of course, I've been sick for quite a while, so it may be the medication. But his groupings make some sense.

I fully understand the need to get as many entry fees as possible. But, it has always been my understanding that Atlanta Region took over an "IT championship" when the SCCA national office dropped the program after the '93 IT Festival. Since then, it has included a Corvette challenge, an ARCA challenge, Fast Plastic, and Winged Things. Now we cater to almost any Miata that replaces the IT with an S. The ARRC has morphed from IT to just anything regional that used to be legal in the GCR. What's next...AP, CM, Shelby Can Am?

I'll admit that the incredibly small groups of open wheeled and sports racers do serve to clear the pallet for the majority of entrants and spectators. However, when we start combining groups from the majority of entrants to accomodate smaller groups of "special" cars, don't we "cut off our nose to spite our face"? Now, there's another special interest group added to the mix in the form a SM.

I'm wondering how the region is going to prevent entrants to the Runoffs from entering the ARRC. If I owned more than one SM (as do many), could I run one at Topeka and the other at Atlanta. If I wasn't the entrant, but only the driver, could I enter the ARRC? or vice-versa? Cheese Louise, registration will be so much fun.

I noticed that the numbers from each of the IT races were used to develop the groups, but no numbers were given for the opened wheel and sports racer groups. If more time is needed to run the proper class IT championship, why do we run a group (in two races) that has such a small subscription?

Those of us in ITB and ITC understand the need to combine our groups as they aren't that well subscribed. Most of us don't like it, but we understand it. All we ask for is a split start to eliminate the fiasco of last year when so many cars were taken out on the first lap. I've been promised that we will get that this year.
But to put the two largest IT classes together in the interest of expediting the event to accomodate some more specialized entries isn't the smartest thing I've heard. I mean no offense to those who make out the schedule. They do the best with what they have to work with.

Can't we return this to a true IT championship instead of diluting it to just another regional weekend? I like running Road Atlanta, but a true IT championship at Mid Ohio sounds pretty cool, too.

lateapex911
08-23-2006, 11:21 AM
As an IT7 driver, I won't bother making the trip this year if the run groups hold as currently set.

Good points by all those posting above me.

Andy's solution makes the most sense. The ITS cars should be able to get by backmarker Miatas in many places, and if the backmarkers show courtesy, it will be even easier.

ITA and ITS???? I wouldn't bother coming down if I was in either class.

There has been talk of reinventing the IT festival, as Andy mentioned, to make it more central, and if this grouping is chosen, I am sure that the ARRCs will become a good regional race, as people just won't spend two days towing to run in the usual Regional groupings.

Remember the first rule in biz....only piss off your existing clients if you are SURE you can replace them with more and spendier clients......

charrbq
08-23-2006, 11:28 AM
If the SSM and SM classes are run with the ITB and ITC classes it will accomplish one thing...eliminate the two IT classes. We have to run with them at almost every race we run, and, frankly, it sucks! That has been one major factor in the reduction of entrants in those classes. Even though the lap times are similar, the cars are vastly different in performance.

Combining them will only serve to lower the status of the ARRC to just another regional race.

R2 Racing
08-23-2006, 11:37 AM
PS: Greg how is it possible that running with ITS will give you an advantage? That doesn't make sence with me...[/b]
In the world of ITA cars, Greg is king when it comes to power and torque. So for example, if the lead pack in ITA gets held up through 6 and 7, Greg will be first into 10a.

Raymond - remember that I also use to race ITC for three years, and still do on occasion. So I know what its like to be the slowest class on the track, everytime I raced. With that in mind, I can honestly say that my issue is not "that ITA drivers whome want to win the overall race might not look like such a star". I've raced in ITB/ITC groups and they work relatively well. I've also raced in ITA/ITS groups and they don't.

Butch - thank you for listening to our issues. I personally will be running in ITA and have no problem racing with IT7. But that being said, I can understand the ITB drivers not wanting to race with ITS. But either way, I don't think the problem is in what classes to group together, but as to why we're having to group these classes together. Are there more regional only classes that we need to squeeze into our regional only classes championship weekend? No, in fact there's less. So where's the issue? The issue is in the "other commitments". I guess I just don't understand why everyone in ITC, ITB, ITA, and ITS needs to compromise their championship races so that other classes can just have more, none championship events, to run in. That just doesn't sound fair to me.

Greg Amy
08-23-2006, 11:42 AM
Greg how is it possible that running with ITS will give you an advantage? That doesn't make sence with me...[/b]




...we now stratagize our race based on using...ITS drivers as picks.[/b]

That's why. Our class is balanced on a razor's edge, with cars like the Miata and CRX having the advantage in the corners and cars like the NX and Integra having the advantage on the straights. Versus the Integra my NX has superior torque with the Integra having a better suspension, thus needing to keep their speed up through the corners. If you toss in a lot of similar-speed top-10 ITS traffic that is very fast on the straights but balks the leading ITA cars in the corners (I finished 12th in ITS in 2003 and I'm much faster now) it becomes a competition of who has the most grunt out of the corners; all of these other cars are toast.

Having your races decided by cars not within your class is not racing. If you think that's the case, then why have four IT classes; let's lump everybody into one pot and call it simply "Improved Touring"! If I were in ITB I would MUCH rather run with the ITS guys so the speed disparity is more significant and conflicts are minimized; for the same reasons if I were in ITC I'd much rather run with ITA. Screw the loss of a lap, that's a much lower price to pay.

And, I see no value in being able to tell folks that I raced and beat 3/4 of the ITS cars in an ITA car, and I really don't give a rats rass about not crossing the checkered first...except in class. - GA

Phat-S
08-23-2006, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Kevin

Butch - thank you for listening to our issues. ... But either way, I don't think the problem is in what classes to group together, but as to why we're having to group these classes together. Are there more regional only classes that we need to squeeze into our regional only classes championship weekend? No, in fact there's less. So where's the issue? The issue is in the "other coimmitments". I guess I just don't understand why everyone in ITC, ITB, ITA, and ITS needs to compromise their championship races so that other classes can just have more, none championship events, to run in. That just doesn't sound fair to me.

I'd like to echo Kevin's comments - both the complimentary to your effort and the questioning of the need to comprimise IT's championship. After missing the last two ARRCs, I was hoping to quietly participate this year but I think for me, and folks like me, to run an ITA CRX in an ITS race is really not much different than any regional race weekend. And considering the cost and time for the ARRC, the regional makes more financial sense.

Hope this doesn't sound artificially negative. I do understand the constraints but I wanted to point out that for some folks, something like this may be the difference of going or not.

At the end of the day, this is the ARRC, I feel it really should be something that stands apart from anything else we can play in from an IT perspective during the year.

RSTPerformance
08-23-2006, 11:57 AM
That's why. Our class is balanced on a razor's edge, with cars like the Miata and CRX having the advantage in the corners and cars like the NX and Integra having the advantage on the straights. Versus the Integra my NX has superior torque with the Integra having a better suspension, thus needing to keep their speed up through the corners. If you toss in a lot of similar-speed top-10 ITS traffic that is very fast on the straights but balks the leading ITA cars in the corners (I finished 12th in ITS in 2003 and I'm much faster now) it becomes a competition of who has the most grunt out of the corners; all of these other cars are toast.

Having your races decided by cars not within your class is not racing. If you think that's the case, then why have four IT classes; let's lump everybody into one pot and call it simply "Improved Touring"! If I were in ITB I would MUCH rather run with the ITS guys so the speed disparity is more significant and conflicts are minimized; for the same reasons if I were in ITC I'd much rather run with ITA. Screw the loss of a lap, that's a much lower price to pay.
[/b]

Greg-
Well, I see your point and completely understand and your example is great, but.... I guess I have even a better advantage than you as the Audi's have a lot of grunt compaired to any other car than a volvo in ITB. We loose it in the turns and in braking, so I guess we should want to run with ITS, but honestly, you need to experience it, if you think it is bad with ITS/ITA cars try being a "B" car and gaining 5-7 car lengths in a turn catch a car at apex and still not have a chance to cary enough speed to make a pass as the HP between classes is so different.

Glad to see not wanting to run for first in mid pack is not an issue, I appologize if I went a little overboard with that comment... I to enjoy finishing in the to 5 or 10 overall with an ITB car in an ITB/ITS field!!! :happy204:


Kevin- thank you for thinking clearly and telling us the true issue:

I don't think the problem is in what classes to group together, but as to why we're having to group these classes together. Are there more regional only classes that we need to squeeze into our regional only classes championship weekend? No, in fact there's less. So where's the issue? The issue is in the "other coimmitments".

Raymond

charrbq
08-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Greg,
I don't totally disagree with you about the cost of racing being the loss of only one lap, but I don't agree with the idea either.
In ITC, I have to keep an eye in the mirror for the faster IT classes lapping me by halfway in the race as it is. Do I need to have that problem in a race of such importance as the ARRC? I don't want to be a pick (as I have in the past) for a couple of faster classed cars that are in a race for position. Why shouldn't I have the opportunity to compete in the same length race as the other classes? If I know going in that, no matter how fast I run in my little Honda, I'll only get to run 19 rather than 20 laps. If so, then I should (following that process) get a 5% discount at registration.
The problem, as Kevin better wrote than I, is the other commitments. I wonder sometimes if the inspiration behind the ARRC is the same as it once was. If the IT entries shrink further, will the Miata's, plastic cars, and big thunder cars pick up the slack?

itracer
08-23-2006, 01:32 PM
As an ITB driver, I would rather run with ITC. We are fast (or slow depending how you look at it) in the same places. As a mid-pack ITB person I catch the slow ITS cars. Their driving style in the corners is not always conducive to passing them safely. They zip away when they are pointed straight and I catch them in the corner, but again cannot get by. An ITC car is going to have similar abilities and challenges and therefore makes for safer racing passes. I would not mind running with ITA since, in my mind it is similar to the ITC/ITB combo.

I do not think that I will be going to the ARRC in my car, but I have not ruled it out. I am missing the two biggest NER races this year (Pig Roast and Cheap Date), so I might be inclined to feed my habit elsewhere (ARRC?). But if we (ITB) were moved into a class with ITS, I would not make the tow down.

m glassburner
08-23-2006, 01:37 PM
I know I might be sounding a little like captian obvious.... but if the car counts are up they would be "forced"
to give everyone a seperate run group....I know I'ts a pipe dream....hell,I would even help(money) to get
more cars to show up for ITB...mdg...#19 omni. B)

RSTPerformance
08-23-2006, 01:56 PM
I know I might be sounding a little like captian obvious.... but if the car counts are up they would be "forced"
to give everyone a seperate run group....I know I'ts a pipe dream....hell,I would even help(money) to get
more cars to show up for ITB...mdg...#19 omni. B)
[/b]


Want to ensure we go no matter what class we run with... feel free to send $$$ or on a more seriose note offer a tow fund :birra:

Raymond

R2 Racing
08-23-2006, 04:09 PM
Wow, I posted something on a internet message board and not only did no one argue against me, but they actually agreed with me! Damn, that hasn't happened in weeks! :035:


The talk of a centrally located mid-season "IT Festival" started almost immediately after last years ARRC. I talked back then about trying to organize something like that at Mid Ohio, but the only problem with that idea actually replacing the ARRC is that at a track like Mid Ohio, you'd pretty much have to have it by the end of September to ensure any good shot at nice weather. But, if there was some serious interest in it, my home region (Ohio Valley) already has the second weekend of September every year and IT's very own Matt Downing is one of the "head cheeses" around here. We also both enjoy talking and drinking beer. B)

I'm not at all implying that right at this moment I want to take something like that away from Road Atlanta. Not at all! But, if they take away the make up of a "regional class only championship" themselves, the kids will find a new sandbox.

svt38
08-23-2006, 05:17 PM
[quote]


How about this (and I need to hear from the ITB and ITC guys as well)?

ASM & ITC
ITA & IT7
ITS & ITB


We in ITC have run with ITB the last five years that I have been going to the ARRC. In 2001, I think it was, we had enough entries to have our own group. I know that will not happen again any time soon.

Having us grouped with ITB has been working great, specially when we were granted split starts. Some of the best racing I have been involved in.

I'm against grouping us with SM. If you look at the SARRC entries over the last couple of years, you'll see that the ITC entries are very low when grouped with SM. Increased when not.

Hopefully you keep us with ITB with a split start.

Vesa Silegren
ITC SEDIV

IPRESS
08-23-2006, 10:11 PM
Butch,
You guys have a tough job trying to make racers happy. Whatever you folks decide I am sure plenty of folks will come race. It is great to have leaders willing to listen to the voices of their followers. As with any forum you are getting the opinons here of a vocal few. These few probably have some good ideas. I hope you come up with a nice compromise.

I would hope that when making the schedule that ASM's run group & ITA's run group would be seperated enough so that one car could run in both races. One thing that usually gets me to tow 16 hours is being able to split costs and share a car with another racer. (I know some of the Atlanta guys do this sometimes.) Since we share the enduro it gives two people and one car plenty of racing. If that doesn't work out I WILL still come as ARRC is my favorite race.

I also wanted to address the "blame it on SM" sentiment that seems to rear it's ugly head when SMs are involved in scheduling. Having been in one of the first two SMs run at RAtlanta way back when, I have seen and been there when SM was the stepchild. Even with it's many warts today, it is a great racing success story. Many people who would never road race have been drawn to the sport by the appeal of the class. (I realize some of them we could have done without :D ) As a past region BOD member, I can vouch for the good side of SM when it comes to beefing up entries. I am not advocating messing up other classes race groups to accomodate SM, but it does make since to try and have a big car count. There is a happy (or half happy) medium somewhere. Before you think I am just taking the SM side, let me say that my plans for 07 are to run ITA exclusively and prep my car for ITA only. (I always liked running with different type cars.)
So good luck to Butch and all the Atlanta officals in solving this puzzle.

Mac

zracre
08-23-2006, 10:41 PM
I have a SM and an ITA car...I love the cars (Miatas) but there has to be a limit to how far an event organizer will go to accomodate them...ASM SSM SPx and why should other classes suffer? The Miatas even have their own Miata Madness race! Keep the old format

charrbq
08-24-2006, 01:49 PM
Here's an idea. Race the Miata's across the road at Lanier circle track. For extra interest, they might add a cross over in the middle. I'd pay to watch...as long as I could bring in my own beer and barbeque. Shoot, I'd even buy some from the track for that kind of entertainment. :D

Greg Amy
08-24-2006, 02:20 PM
Hell, I'd buy a Miata to race just for that!!

Yeah, it's off-topic, but back when the Runoffs were at Road Atlanta the Lanier Speedway used to have a feature race on Saturday night just for the Showroom Stock cars. We usually ran our Runoffs race on Friday (the better to get through Tech before Beer Sunday) and we'd show up at Lanier for a bit of funSaturday night.

I think the roundy-round crowd loved seeing "street cars" going after each other in the bull ring; we sure had fun! - GA

zracre
08-24-2006, 02:25 PM
yea baby! we should call Lanier and see if they want to do something like that for us! They usually dont have anything going on that time of year it seems...

OTLimit
08-24-2006, 02:50 PM
The only thing that I DON'T want to see is an ITB/ITC unsplit start again. Granted, Chris had qualifying issues with his car last year (seems it only wanted to qualify and race for $$), but having to weed his way through the ITC cars was just a crock. The fact that he went from 21st to 5th was amazing.

R2 Racing
08-24-2006, 02:51 PM
A figure 8 Spec Miata race - seriously, I'd drive all the way from Ohio just to watch that!

Butch Kummer
08-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Just so it doesn't get lost in the maze, our response to your concerns in a new thread.

Butch Kummer

IPRESS
08-24-2006, 05:58 PM
I think there have been some SM roundy round races in SC or FL. There has been a race or two in SM where I felt I was in a NASCAR race.
It looks like Butch and his group came up with a good schedule.
See yall there.