RSTPerformance
08-22-2006, 05:39 PM
Ok, I said I would post our experience for others to gain a bit of knowledge, it might be useless knowledge, but hey you can enjoy the procrastination or ignore the post ;) ... This is my initial opinions with only using the Bilstien’s once on one car.
First I have to talk about the Audi... The cars are very heavy up front and require massive amounts of camber to really handle well. We drive the crap out of the cars beating them to death at every event and I don't think anyone can argue that we get the most out of every part on the cars. The end results with the suspension design in an Audi in regards to the struts are major side loads on the strut shaft. If the strut can't handle the side load things only get worse as any play in the strut shaft changes toe in/out dramatically, in turn causing poor handling and an even greater side load on the strut multiplying the wear and its effects. In addition to that the side load (based on our experiences) it also damages the struts compression and/or rebound valving.
Now the Companies:
Koni-
Great company to work with for several years. They helped us with the cost and development of our suspension since day one. Huge kudos’ goes to them and if they have an application that works for your car I certainly wouldn’t tell you that they are a not a great company to work with. For us their recommended product didn't work. We tried several things over a 5 year span to make their product work and when all was said and done this summer I was not comfortable with their next suggestion. I felt we would still have a strut that would fail after a 1 day race weekend. I told them my concerns and asked for another option. That other option was going to cost us well over $1,200 per corner just for the strut insert. They did help us a lot so it was tough to look elsewhere but we just could not afford or justify spending that much money when we were not certain that even that super high level product would work or not. We decided to look elsewhere and see what options were available to try.
Bilstien-
We contacted several companies all recommending Bilstien or other "new companies." We would have loved to work with a new smaller company but we had a 3 week turnaround deadline and nobody could meet that except Bilstien. We talked with Bilstien and spelled out our problems and concerns. They guaranteed us that they had a product that would work. After talking with them and discussing the option that they had for us we asked the price. It was then a done deal; we were going to give the Bilstiens a try. After last weekends race at Lime Rock I am confident that the Bilstiens replaced what was once the "weak link" in the suspension and that the Bilstiens were now the strongest part of the suspension. After 2 days of long sessions we did not notice any fading from start to end (something we certainly noticed with the Koni's). Despite being a bit slower than other weekends the tires felt like they "gripped" the track surface much better. Most importantly though is that the strut seemed to handle the side load and the Toe is staying where we set it and is "tight" not all loosy goosy if you know what I mean.
Bilstiens data/setup vs past Koni data/setup:
The first issue we encountered was that tire pressures normally were set with the Koni's to start around 29-30psi and would come up to around 40-41psi at Lime Rock. With the Bilstiens they only came up to 35-36psi. This was odd but decided that the tires were not coming up to the same pressures because the struts were actually working? We increased the pressures the car handled much better which resulted in more consistent faster lap times.
The other issue that we encountered was that the car seems to need more camber than it did previously. We are already running at unthinkable amounts and I can't imagine going any higher but I am confident that with more camber we should be able to get the car to handle considerable better, maybe gaining .5 – 1 second a lap. (Maybe I am dreaming) Next project is to get that additional camber out of the front and test out that theory!!!
We were about 1 second off the pace in the beginning of the weekend but at the end of the weekend we were only .5 seconds from where we wanted to be. Other contributing factors besides the two issues above could be a result of running on well used tires vs. new tires.
Anyway we are very pleased with how things have turned out with Bilstien. We now have an affordable well built strut insert that I think will handle the massive amounts side load, time will tell. I am confident that we can run the cars in the mid to low 1.04’s at Lime Rock lap after lap once things are completely figured out which will keep us in the hunt with all the “top dogs”!!! I loved the Koni's and the thought of all the adjustments but as quoted by everyone we talk to… "All the adjustments in the world are useless if the struts don't even work."
Raymond "new Bilstien believer" Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
First I have to talk about the Audi... The cars are very heavy up front and require massive amounts of camber to really handle well. We drive the crap out of the cars beating them to death at every event and I don't think anyone can argue that we get the most out of every part on the cars. The end results with the suspension design in an Audi in regards to the struts are major side loads on the strut shaft. If the strut can't handle the side load things only get worse as any play in the strut shaft changes toe in/out dramatically, in turn causing poor handling and an even greater side load on the strut multiplying the wear and its effects. In addition to that the side load (based on our experiences) it also damages the struts compression and/or rebound valving.
Now the Companies:
Koni-
Great company to work with for several years. They helped us with the cost and development of our suspension since day one. Huge kudos’ goes to them and if they have an application that works for your car I certainly wouldn’t tell you that they are a not a great company to work with. For us their recommended product didn't work. We tried several things over a 5 year span to make their product work and when all was said and done this summer I was not comfortable with their next suggestion. I felt we would still have a strut that would fail after a 1 day race weekend. I told them my concerns and asked for another option. That other option was going to cost us well over $1,200 per corner just for the strut insert. They did help us a lot so it was tough to look elsewhere but we just could not afford or justify spending that much money when we were not certain that even that super high level product would work or not. We decided to look elsewhere and see what options were available to try.
Bilstien-
We contacted several companies all recommending Bilstien or other "new companies." We would have loved to work with a new smaller company but we had a 3 week turnaround deadline and nobody could meet that except Bilstien. We talked with Bilstien and spelled out our problems and concerns. They guaranteed us that they had a product that would work. After talking with them and discussing the option that they had for us we asked the price. It was then a done deal; we were going to give the Bilstiens a try. After last weekends race at Lime Rock I am confident that the Bilstiens replaced what was once the "weak link" in the suspension and that the Bilstiens were now the strongest part of the suspension. After 2 days of long sessions we did not notice any fading from start to end (something we certainly noticed with the Koni's). Despite being a bit slower than other weekends the tires felt like they "gripped" the track surface much better. Most importantly though is that the strut seemed to handle the side load and the Toe is staying where we set it and is "tight" not all loosy goosy if you know what I mean.
Bilstiens data/setup vs past Koni data/setup:
The first issue we encountered was that tire pressures normally were set with the Koni's to start around 29-30psi and would come up to around 40-41psi at Lime Rock. With the Bilstiens they only came up to 35-36psi. This was odd but decided that the tires were not coming up to the same pressures because the struts were actually working? We increased the pressures the car handled much better which resulted in more consistent faster lap times.
The other issue that we encountered was that the car seems to need more camber than it did previously. We are already running at unthinkable amounts and I can't imagine going any higher but I am confident that with more camber we should be able to get the car to handle considerable better, maybe gaining .5 – 1 second a lap. (Maybe I am dreaming) Next project is to get that additional camber out of the front and test out that theory!!!
We were about 1 second off the pace in the beginning of the weekend but at the end of the weekend we were only .5 seconds from where we wanted to be. Other contributing factors besides the two issues above could be a result of running on well used tires vs. new tires.
Anyway we are very pleased with how things have turned out with Bilstien. We now have an affordable well built strut insert that I think will handle the massive amounts side load, time will tell. I am confident that we can run the cars in the mid to low 1.04’s at Lime Rock lap after lap once things are completely figured out which will keep us in the hunt with all the “top dogs”!!! I loved the Koni's and the thought of all the adjustments but as quoted by everyone we talk to… "All the adjustments in the world are useless if the struts don't even work."
Raymond "new Bilstien believer" Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com