Any Idea on When???

[Z3_GoCar]

Just curious,

I've seen the BMW club rules for next season and they make no mention of ITR. Well I guess that makes sense as ITR isn't officially a class yet, but, I'd love to have something to make them change their rules. So, maybe the next Fastrack? The 20th is a Sunday if I remember correctly. So will we hear on Friday, or Monday? Does anyone have any idea? Thanks,

[lateapex911]

My understanding was that the BoD meeting was scheduled for the weekend of the 26th, and typically, the results of the votes are published in Fastrack after that. Which means that you wouldn't read about it for quite some time.

We might be able to get some word before that though. But can't promise anything...;)

[Z3_GoCar]

Hey Jake,

Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember when the BOD meeting was, or if it'd already passed. I guess the official word will come either in October to Novenber time frame then.

Again I'd encourage everyone who hasn't yet e-mailed the BOD and your local directors to do so. It's not a done deal untill we see it in writting.

[JoshS]

I read on sccaforums that the BOD approved the other proposed classes, but there was no mention of ITR one way or the other (the thread is about national classes and Runoffs participation). Has anyone heard any leaks about ITR?

[Ron Earp]

Just curious,

I've seen the BMW club rules for next season and they make no mention of ITR.
[/b]

I was sort of under the impression that BMW club racing didn't care too much what the SCCA did and were sort of above the SCCA group. Nonetheless, it certainly seems that nobody is trying to fit the emerging spec E36 into IT for those that might wish to race both. Do you think ITR would have any significant impact on BMW Club Racing?

[lateapex911]

The "company policy" is that nothing is official until published in Fastrack.....

That said, I asked the CRB guys on the ITAC con call about the BoD votes, and while they of course followed company policy, they did say, somewhat cryptically, that the "BoD voted pretty much as expected".....

Well, I expected they'd vote for ITR...

Then I read a line that said new classes were approved in the SCCA lead story on the website, and I'd have to think that if certain classes were NOT approved, the line would have read, "...new classes, except XYZ, were approved...."

So, my indications are that it's a go. But...thats just my opinion, ;)

[Z3_GoCar]

I was sort of under the impression that BMW club racing didn't care too much what the SCCA did and were sort of above the SCCA group. Nonetheless, it certainly seems that nobody is trying to fit the emerging spec E36 into IT for those that might wish to race both. Do you think ITR would have any significant impact on BMW Club Racing?
[/b]

Ron,

I asked this because in the BMWCCA racing rules all IT classes are allowed to run as the equivalent Prepared class, except for ITE, which must run as Modified class, which is equvalent to GT. Only thing is that while Prepared class is open as far as cam/AFM's with BMW part#'s/and light weight flywheels, they don't allow ECM changes, not even to OBDI even thought it says it's allowed in the rules. There's no model that it applies to as all motors recieved new designations with the change to OBDII. So by running as an IT classed car you give up the cams/AFM/flywheel but gain the new ECM in a stock box, at least if you have an IT class. I expect to be dicing it up the prepared cars anyway in spite of my classing as I don't expect to be as fast as the other modified drivers.

James

On edit:

Ron, I missed your comments on spec e-36. I'd guess that they'll fit as underprepared ITS/R cars, with the exception of the SIR and weights, same as a spec Miata can run as an under prepared ITA car. Really the idea is to have very closely matched race cars with a simpler set-up to attract novice racers and track day drivers. In reality we know that simple set up means that details become all the more important, like taking advantage of factory cam blanks or revalveing of spec shocks, which are details a new novice might pass by.

[lateapex911]

But do the cammed up J cars (E36s) run the same weight as the non SIR'ed ITS E36s? (at 2850/)

[Z3_GoCar]

Hey Jake,

They also add 50 lbs when compaired to ITS specs, which introduces a wrinkle that I'd not though about in that ITR won't line up with the current status-quo, in that you'd have the 325 classed with no SIR at both 2850 and 2750. At the same time my Z3 will be at 2800lbs, while the JP 2.8l Z3 is at 2730lbs. So if ITR is recognized the same as ITS-ITC then the the ITR 325 will have a 150lb weight break while my Z3 will have a 70lb weight gain when compaired to JP standards.

James

[Ron Earp]

The other issue will be JP cars running in IT, which has been done. JP engines are very open compared to IT with respect to the parts you mention (and others, throttle bodies, MAF) and is definitely an advantage.

I suppose my point that I didn't explain eariler was it would be can't the BMW Club Racing align with IT so that the cars can be raced in both SCCA and BMW Club Racing without being uncompetitive, or cheating. I suppose it is a lot to ask actually and requires a lot of changing on both sides of the fence.

Ron

[JeffYoung]

Right. While it would be nice to have some congruity between SCCA's ITR and ITS, and the BMW CCA classing, don't see how it is possible.

[Z3_GoCar]

The other issue will be JP cars running in IT, which has been done. JP engines are very open compared to IT with respect to the parts you mention (and others, throttle bodies, MAF) and is definitely an advantage.

I suppose my point that I didn't explain eariler was it would be can't the BMW Club Racing align with IT so that the cars can be raced in both SCCA and BMW Club Racing without being uncompetitive, or cheating. I suppose it is a lot to ask actually and requires a lot of changing on both sides of the fence.

Ron
[/b]

Ron,

I believe that's possible on a case-by-case basis or even as a regional suplemental rule; however, it's BMWCCA club racing that alows SCCA BMW racers to run in their events under the SCCA rules. I like the option of running both events, and the next BMW CR race out here requires dual membership with SCCA. As it stands now I'm running the catch-all classes, which is fine with me at this point as I'm looking to learn about driving a car with some beans. If theres one point I've learned from autox'ing and racing a spec-can-class kart is that real speed comes with being smooth, and that's what I'm still working on, like butter or a good triple cream Brie B)

Jeff,

The real problem with the status-quo is double classing of the 325; as I'm sure it'll impead the wholesale adoption of ITR into the BMW rules as ITS-ITC are adopted. Here's the current rule section that covers cross-over from SCCA:

2. SCCA Classifications
Vehicles competing in SCCA Improved Touring, Touring and Showroom Stock
classes will participate in BMW CCA Club Racing adhering to either BMW CCA class
rules or SCCA class rules, but not a combination of both.

A. Competitors must declare in writing in the car’s BMW CCA logbook to which
series preparation rules they are complying with.
B. Competitors must be able to present the most current SCCA General
Competition Regulations (GCR) appropriate to the declared class.
C. An SCCA logbook documenting participation in SCCA ITA/B/C/S, or
Showroom Stock classes is required for a racecar competing in a SCCA
Improved Touring, Touring or Showroom Stock configuration. The SCCA
logbook does not have to be current.
D. Stewards may allow a one-time, one-race exemption that must be noted in
the BMW CCA Club Racing logbook.
E. Without such documentation the entrant must conform to appropriate BMW
CCA class rules.
F. Competitors choosing to compete under SCCA rules must comply with all
that series’ requirements, except that any and all mandated intake restrictions
(including restrictor plates, SIR devices, etc.) may be removed. Cars must run at
the mandated SCCA IT weight, except for those cars which have an ITS weight
specified in the table of chassis weights.
FINAL BMW CCA Club Racing Rules V11.5 -5/31/2006
Page 20 of 78


Copyright 2006 BMW CCA Club Racing


Cars complying with SCCA Touring or Showroom Stock rules will be classed in the
appropriate Stock class. Cars complying with Improved Touring rules will be classed
in the appropriate Prepared class, except that ITE cars will generally be classed as
Modified.

I suppose that as soon as ITR is an officially declared class, i.e. written up in a Fastrac, I can petition for a rules clarification to at least address ITR one way or the other. Now, when I'll be ready for ITR I can't say as it'll take a decent amount of retro-fit, as I'm really more of an ITE car at this point with a random misch-mash of parts. My main priority is to get out on the track and finish my novice book off this fall. I can't wait to see how she scales out, I'd guess 2500-2600 with me in it, we'll see in the next week or so.

James

[RickyBobby]

The real problem with the status-quo is double classing of the 325; as I'm sure it'll impead the wholesale adoption of ITR into the BMW rules as ITS-ITC are adopted. Here's the current rule section that covers cross-over from SCCA:
[/b]

Who gives a rat's behind what BMW CCA CR does. Just get in your car and have fun. Most of those guys couldn't keep up with a pack of blue hairs on I95.

Ricky

[lateapex911]

THAT's actually kinda funny!

[Ron Earp]

Jake that is going to win you a lot of friends in the BMW CCA. RickyBobby too. I'm sure you're both worried huh?

[lateapex911]

Hey, I didn't say I agreed with it, or anything positive about the author .....but it wasn't exactly what I expected to read and it did take me by surpise....

Maybe I should have said something more like, "Now now, that's not nice, or true, although the part about blue hairs on I95 is kinda funny..." ???

[dickita15]

hell Jake don't go PC on us now. :P

[lateapex911]

You're right, Dick....I have to remember that I'm public enemy #2 on the BMW boards anyway, LOL.


(One guess as to #1!)

[dickita15]

I think it is alphabetical.

[lateapex911]

you are the prize winner! I owe you a beer!

[dj10]

Right. While it would be nice to have some congruity between SCCA's ITR and ITS, and the BMW CCA classing, don't see how it is possible. [/b]



Jeff, I believe this is done on purpose. Even if the 2 clssses could cross over & race together, you wouldn't or shouldn't be competitive or you are illegal. Their intent was to make you make a commitment to one series or another and it's the same way in NASA too.


On the subject of when.......it would be nice to have the BoD kick it in gear and do something early, rather than waiting to the last damn minute for once. There might be something new in IT but as of yet there isn't any damn thing new in the ruling class. Actions speak louder than words!

[mlytle]

Who gives a rat's behind what BMW CCA CR does. Just get in your car and have fun. Most of those guys couldn't keep up with a pack of blue hairs on I95.

Ricky
[/b]

THAT's actually kind of funny!

:lol:
marshall
scca/bmwcca club racer - ITR/JP #64

[lateapex911]

Hey Marshall.....if you're gonna quote, use the quote key...;)

Read back a bit, LOL.

Is it more PC for you to say that than me because you race in BMWCCA Club racing?

[gsbaker]

THAT's actually kind of funny!

:lol:
marshall
scca/bmwcca club racer - ITR/JP #64
[/b]
"Kind of"? I'm still trying to catch my breath. :D

[lateapex911]

ITR:

DONE.

Get your cars to the track 01.01.07

[BMW RACER]

I'll be there. Not sure who or what I'll be racing against (maybe James)

Congratulations to all who worked on this.

[Knestis]

Wow - I am absolutely amazed. Congratulations to Jeff et al. who were the catalyst for what might be one of the quickest, most painless new class creations in the history of the club. No corporate agenda, no weird politics or pressure - just plain ol' grassroots initiative-building.

WELL DONE

K

[gsbaker]

Here, here!

[lateapex911]

Yes, going in I was skeptical, but sometime early in the process there was a change at the top of the club I think, and suddenly, instead of "No new classes", the mantra became "We need to wake up".

I went from thinking it will never fly for this to happen from the top down to thinking it was done deal in the space of a week.

Of course, we have't turned the entire ship around yet, but it IS satisfying to see the system work as it should now and then. Thanks to all who kicked in their expertise, and left their agendas home.

[mlytle]

Hey Marshall.....if you're gonna quote, use the quote key...;)

Read back a bit, LOL.

Is it more PC for you to say that than me because you race in BMWCCA Club racing?
[/b]

i saw yours....had to add emphasis! imitation is the highest form of flattery? :D

more...or less...pc!




ITR:

DONE.

Get your cars to the track 01.01.07
[/b]

i am ready!!!!

yee ha!

[Bill Miller]

Wow - I am absolutely amazed. Congratulations to Jeff et al. who were the catalyst for what might be one of the quickest, most painless new class creations in the history of the club. No corporate agenda, no weird politics or pressure - just plain ol' grassroots initiative-building.

WELL DONE

K
[/b]


I couldn't agree more!! Thanks to all who made this happen! :023: It was a pleasure to be involved!

[dj10]

i am ready!!!!
yee ha!
[/b]



For Sale, one slightly used 29mm SIR. Only driven on the weekends by little old man.