iCard

[grendel]

Hello, I my name is Justin. I run iCard for the NC Region. We had some initial trouble getting the iCard system up and running, but recently I have made it work fairly reliably. However, I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. What I want to know is how many of you guys actually use iCard, or what kind of issues you're having. Any iCard admins out there that want to compare experiences would be great.

I also have at my hands an iCard forum. I think it could become a great product with a little better support. It appears that the makers of iCard don't much care for support, and I was thinking we could put together a community effort and figure this stuff out for ourselves.

[JoshS]

I have one, and absolutely love it when it works. But it's a total waste of money. I'd recommend against them to anyone who asks. Which means that for you, I'd say, don't kill yourself over it unless somehow from your side, you can control the end-user experience.

I have been running the National events on the west coast, and it seems that most of those clubs (plus the Runoffs) try to have it working. Unfortunately, my local region (San Francisco Region) chooses not to use the system.

But there are lots of problems: the reception is pretty lousy at many tracks (i.e., it works in the pits, but not always wherever we're paddocked), and half the time, we only seem to get data for half of a session, and then it just stops working.

BUT -- it is about as frustrating to use as anything I've ever tried in my life! We can NEVER figure out what the buttons really do. It's an absolutely horrible user interface. It's as though it behaves differently every day we try it. There is no consistent way to switch from "fastest lap" to "last lap", or switch from numerical order to running order, or to get to a specific class vs. the entire group, and especially, to get data for sessions that aren't on track right now. Sometimes it LOOKS like you might be able to select those things (for example, sometimes you can see a list of classes and scroll through them, but it doesn't matter which one you highlight, the next screen seems to always be the same). I just absolutely cannot make sense of it, and I like to think that I'm a pretty smart guy.

I wouldn't recommend this system to anyone who asks. It should be trashed until someone actually figures out how to make it usable. Total waste of money.

[x-ring]

They seem to make it work pretty well at the runoffs, have you contacted the T & S chief there (Con Peplowski, I think) to see who has figured it out?

You might cross post this over at the SCCA web site. All the way down at the bottom of the forum main page is a worker section, which I think has a page just for T & S.

[planet6racing]

I have the iCard USB and agree that the user interface is less than ideal. The only reason I really got it is for the lap time logging so that my crew no longer needed the stopwatches. Plus, when it works, getting the gaps fore and aft is really nice.

Next weekend is the ALMS race at Road America and I am really looking forward to using it there. I just hope there is sufficient signal coverage...

[happyjap]

*EDIT* This is Grendel, I didn't realize my fathers account was signed on when I posted.

All the user interfaces are terrible. Over 2 years I have figured out how to use the end user, it will do all the things you want it to do relatively predictably. I think the designers had never seen a gameboy till they made the system.

The other end, the transmitter software isn't any better. There are a couple different versions depending on what kind of event you're running, and the end user views change with that. You also have no indication of whats being run except some of your options might be different.

Rememer that B is select, and A is back. That is the hard part for me. From the start page (when you first turn it on) you can press the right arrow once and get a class list, press it again and you should get the leaderboard. If you highlight your driver and press B, it will either take you to a class leaderboard, or his personal driver page. That depends on whats going on upstairs.

As far as seeing last lap/fastest lap that is also controlled upstairs. They may show one on the class page and one on the leader page, I cannot remember for sure right now.

As far as reception, my experience is this: It will go a LONG ways if you have line of sight. Remember that the red LED on the iCard unit itself has to be light.

It is common for the iCard to randomly shut itself down. If you stop recieving data in the middle of the session, turn it off and back on. If still no good then wait until a couple more laps into the next session. Green flag, after cars have started going by, is when iCard updates itself...more or less. If still no good, find your iCard guy or gal and bother them.

Finally, I cannot stress enough the importance of batteries. iCard sucks a lot of juice, when in doubt, get some NEW batteries.

PS, I posted this on the SCCA forums a while back, didn't get much response.

[JonL]

we use the icard in grand am and it works great. we used it first last year at the VIR 13 hour with only three or four times did it not work for a few laps. we like it, we use it at every event that supports it and we are starting to depend on it. we will never be without a stop watch , just in case.

[grendel]

we use the icard in grand am and it works great. we used it first last year at the VIR 13 hour with only three or four times did it not work for a few laps. we like it, we use it at every event that supports it and we are starting to depend on it. we will never be without a stop watch , just in case.
[/b]

YES! I was running it at that event!

[JoshS]

They seem to make it work pretty well at the runoffs, have you contacted the T & S chief there (Con Peplowski, I think) to see who has figured it out?[/b]

Last year was an iCard disaster at the Runoffs. They were VERY flaky, and the vendor was supposed to be there, but chose to skip it at the last minute. So everyone was complaining to one of the vendors (Racer Parts Wholesale, I think), who got so fed up that he started to hand out the cell phone number of the iCard president. I know my wife called the number, but we never heard back.

So I wouldn't say it even works well at the Runoffs.

[JoshS]

All the user interfaces are terrible. Over 2 years I have figured out how to use the end user, it will do all the things you want it to do relatively predictably. I think the designers had never seen a gameboy till they made the system.

The other end, the transmitter software isn't any better. There are a couple different versions depending on what kind of event you're running, and the end user views change with that. You also have no indication of whats being run except some of your options might be different.
[/b]

So if you frequently run events run by different clubs (as I do, travelling to do National races), and if each club has a different version of the software, or just a different configuration, then there is not much predictability in the user interface. Right? Because that's my experience.


Rememer that B is select, and A is back. That is the hard part for me. From the start page (when you first turn it on) you can press the right arrow once and get a class list, press it again and you should get the leaderboard. If you highlight your driver and press B, it will either take you to a class leaderboard, or his personal driver page. That depends on whats going on upstairs.[/b]

Is there a difference between "right arrow" and "B"? Or do they both just advance to the next screen?

Does scrolling up and down before clicking "right arrow" or "B" actually affect the behavior of the click? If sometimes, then when?

What is the point of the class list page? It doesnt' appear to allow me to get to a particular class.

How can I see results for the group that just finished?

How can I see current qualifying results for a class that's on track right now? Sorted by time please. Can I sort by car number instead? Can I do the same for the whole group?

Sometimes, right-arrow/B seems to just advance through all of the classes, showing varying information for each one. Sometimes it seems like I can switch between views of the same data, but sometimes I can't. I don't know if it matters whether it's qualifying or race, or if it's a difference with tracks, or it's that I've lost connection with the transmitter (which happens a lot), but the buttons just seem to do random, unpredictable stuff.

Really, what I bought the system for was:
1) During qualifying, my crew should be able to see the live qualifying results fpr my class (ignoring the other cars on the track), in time order, and tell me where I stand over the radio.
2) During a race, my crew should be able to tell me the gap between me and the person in front of me (ignoring other classes), and the gap to the person behind me.
3) While watching a friend's race, I should be able to see the leaderboard, fastest lap times, last lap times, etc.
4) After my qualifying session, I should be able to see the results for my class, even though another group has already taken to the track.
5) After my race, I should be able to see the finishing order for my class, gaps at the finish, and fastest lap times, even though another group has already taken to the track.

I don't feel like the system consistently lets me do any of that. Seems like it's sometimes capable of doing some of that, but what sequence of steps I have to take to get to those screens seems totally inconsistent, so it's a matter of luck, literally, if I can get it to show me the data I want.

Keep in mind that I have zero control over what's going on in T&S ... I only have a gameboy in my hands.


As far as seeing last lap/fastest lap that is also controlled upstairs. They may show one on the class page and one on the leader page, I cannot remember for sure right now. [/b]

There's a "class page" and a "leader page?" How do I get to them? What do they mean? Is there a manual somewhere that describes this stuff? I've never even heard of the concepts before.


As far as reception, my experience is this: It will go a LONG ways if you have line of sight. Remember that the red LED on the iCard unit itself has to be light.[/b]

My experience isn't that good. That light flashes all the time (I assumed it meant that it was receiving data, not that it was "connected"), and sometimes just ... stops flashing.


It is common for the iCard to randomly shut itself down. If you stop recieving data in the middle of the session, turn it off and back on.[/b]

When it stops receiving data every 30 seconds, and it takes 30 seconds to boot it up, it's just better to throw it on the floor of the trailer and stomp on it. That it's common to just shut down on its own means it's not ready for prime time and no one should spend money on it.


If still no good, find your iCard guy or gal and bother them.[/b]

I thought that's what I was doing :-)

Seriously, who are you talking about? I know you didn't invent this stuff, you didn't sell it to me, and you aren't even at the tracks I'm at. So I'm just venting in general, not at you directly. I have no idea who I'm supposed to talk to.

It says on their website that it works with the following clubs, at the following tracks, etc, etc. But HOW does it work at those tracks and clubs? I shouldn't have to go bug the T&S people ... they're busy, aren't they? It should "just work."

Okay, enough venting, I'm sure that wasn't the feedback you were looking for!

[EDIT: I just called and e-mailed the iCard people (a "C. Y. Smith"), the only name/address listed on the iCard website. That's who I really should be venting to. We'll see if I hear back. That there's no end-user manual that describes how to do the 5 things I listed above is really the core of my complaint.]

[grendel]

So if you frequently run events run by different clubs (as I do, travelling to do National races), and if each club has a different version of the software, or just a different configuration, then there is not much predictability in the user interface. Right? Because that's my experience.
Is there a difference between "right arrow" and "B"? Or do they both just advance to the next screen?

When I say different versions, there are really 3 that I know of. One for drag racing, one with "driver pages" and one without. At our regional races with 100+ cars on the course. The system cannot handle data well enough to have a "driver page" for each driver. So, we have "class pages" and a "leaderboard." So depending on your organization, you may or may not have that option.

Now, a driver page has information particular to each driver. I have not seen one in over a year and cannot remember much about it.

A class page is a leaderboard for your class. It lists cars in order of position and shows either their last lap or fastest lap. I think its the last lap, but don't quote me.



Does scrolling up and down before clicking "right arrow" or "B" actually affect the behavior of the click? If sometimes, then when?


When you scroll you should see a highlighted line move up and down. If your iCard person is not running driver pages, pressing B will take you to the class page of whatever car you selected. So, if you're looking at a leaderboard, and select your car, it will take you to the "class page" and show you all the cars in your class. If you do have "driver pages" I think it will take you to the driver page of the car you selected.



What is the point of the class list page? It doesnt' appear to allow me to get to a particular class.


See above.



How can I see results for the group that just finished?


This is somthing I personally am having trouble with. I think responsibility lies in the person upstairs. The system is supposed to automatically move the current session into internal memory on your unit, but I cannot figure out how to do it reliably.



How can I see current qualifying results for a class that's on track right now? Sorted by time please. Can I sort by car number instead? Can I do the same for the whole group?


IF the people upstairs have the system setup right (the word "qualifying" has to be in the name of a qualifying session) then your "class page" should show you that information. You cannot sort by car#.



Sometimes, right-arrow/B seems to just advance through all of the classes, showing varying information for each one. Sometimes it seems like I can switch between views of the same data, but sometimes I can't. I don't know if it matters whether it's qualifying or race, or if it's a difference with tracks, or it's that I've lost connection with the transmitter (which happens a lot), but the buttons just seem to do random, unpredictable stuff.


I know exactly what you mean about the buttons.
Perhaps if I explained how the system sees pages. On my laptop upstairs I get a list of iCard pages:

Page0=the first page you see when you turn it on. It has the name of the event and some other stuff.
Page1=the list of classes IIRC
Page2=the "leaderboard," a list of all the cars on the course, in order by position
Page3=either the first class page, or driver page. I'm really only familiar with the non-driver pages version so I don't know about the driver page stuff.
Page4+=more class/driver pages

If you press left and right, you can cycle through these pages in numerical order. If you look at the leaderboard, select a car, and press B you can go straight to the class/driver page for that car.



Really, what I bought the system for was:
1) During qualifying, my crew should be able to see the live qualifying results fpr my class (ignoring the other cars on the track), in time order, and tell me where I stand over the radio.
2) During a race, my crew should be able to tell me the gap between me and the person in front of me (ignoring other classes), and the gap to the person behind me.
3) While watching a friend's race, I should be able to see the leaderboard, fastest lap times, last lap times, etc.
4) After my qualifying session, I should be able to see the results for my class, even though another group has already taken to the track.
5) After my race, I should be able to see the finishing order for my class, gaps at the finish, and fastest lap times, even though another group has already taken to the track.

I don't feel like the system consistently lets me do any of that. Seems like it's sometimes capable of doing some of that, but what sequence of steps I have to take to get to those screens seems totally inconsistent, so it's a matter of luck, literally, if I can get it to show me the data I want.


I know how you feel, I face it every time I run the system. I think I addressed all this stuff above, but remind me if I didn't.



Keep in mind that I have zero control over what's going on in T&S ... I only have a gameboy in my hands.
There's a "class page" and a "leader page?" How do I get to them? What do they mean? Is there a manual somewhere that describes this stuff? I've never even heard of the concepts before.

Some of my terms are in my software, I believe most are on your gameboy, and some I just made up. This is the first time I've really had a chance to share my knowledge, you'll have to excuse me. :)



My experience isn't that good. That light flashes all the time (I assumed it meant that it was receiving data, not that it was "connected"), and sometimes just ... stops flashing.
When it stops receiving data every 30 seconds, and it takes 30 seconds to boot it up, it's just better to throw it on the floor of the trailer and stomp on it. That it's common to just shut down on its own means it's not ready for prime time and no one should spend money on it.


It may be different on other versions, but the ones I have played with, the light stays on steady if it has a connection. If it flashes you may be on the edge of reception. Hold it up over your head and see if you can make it stay on.


I thought that's what I was doing :-)

Seriously, who are you talking about? I know you didn't invent this stuff, you didn't sell it to me, and you aren't even at the tracks I'm at. So I'm just venting in general, not at you directly. I have no idea who I'm supposed to talk to.

Hey, I am more than willing to help you here. But when its not working at the track you should find the person in charge of iCard at that event and ask them. Remember, BE NICE, they're probably either as frustrated as you are, or have no idea theres a problem. I think that in most tracks they'll be in T&S but not nessecarily part of T&S. For whatever reason, my T&S crowd does not like iCard at all, and get a little testy about being bothered about it, but are more than happy to direct all questions to me.

Basically if it were me, I would go to T&S and politely ask them to refer you to the person in charge of iCard. They shouldn't bite. :) Also, I have seen quite a few iCard company types at events, so you might get to meet one of them.



It says on their website that it works with the following clubs, at the following tracks, etc, etc. But HOW does it work at those tracks and clubs? I shouldn't have to go bug the T&S people ... they're busy, aren't they? It should "just work."

Yes it should "just work." But, it doesn't, and because of this a lot of people have gotten sick of messing with it. My region gave it to me and said "make it work." I happen to enjoy tinkering with and its my only job at the track so I can be gotten a hold of. I cannot speak for all T&S groups, but I wouldn't be scared of them. The worst they can do is tell you to leave them alone right? Some may be belligerent about it I guess. I dunno, perhaps I should get out more :).


Okay, enough venting, I'm sure that wasn't the feedback you were looking for!

[EDIT: I just called and e-mailed the iCard people (a "C. Y. Smith"), the only name/address listed on the iCard website. That's who I really should be venting to. We'll see if I hear back. That there's no end-user manual that describes how to do the 5 things I listed above is really the core of my complaint.

Good idea, the more emails he gets about this the more likely it is it'll get fixed!

PS: I am in no way affiliated in iCard the company. I simply run the system for NCR at VIR. I want to connect with other iCard users and see what we can learn from each other.

Also, I cannot seem to make the quotes work to save my life. Just pretend!

[Speed Raycer]

I don't even have a full year in yet in T&S so bear with me.

iCard is the most frustrating annoying and obtuse program I've seen. You think that's its frustrating out in the paddock, imagine trying to run the program! The user interface is just starting to make "sense" after 8 race days... but even now, I just keep hitting things until it seems to work, then we have to call up to race control to find someone with iCard that actually knows how to use it.

This past weekend we made some pretty big steps and actually were broadcasting most of the info. Our radio tech came up and read through the manual and tried to set it up for us then between races, split starts, results and protests we were able to get enough time to figure more of it out.

Even when we did get it to work it was still buggy. In one instance it had an IT7 car that didn't even make it out of the paddock as lap leader even though the ITE Ferrari was about 3 laps ahead of the first IT7 car :D