Daytona double sarrc

[flaboy]

I noticed that it.com folks are making a strong presence at the double sarrc at daytona next weekend.
just went thru the on-line line up and saw plenty of names on there that i see on these forums all the the time.

I can not believe all the cars comming on such a hot weekend and with gas prices as high as they are.

ITC has 13 entered already....thats huge for itc.

Hope tp see everyone next weekend if my car gets fixed in time.
If not i'll be there watching.


Tim
ITC VW #60

[zracre]

I will be there with my painted Teg....

[its66]

I will be there with my painted Teg....
[/b]
OMG, really?? fresh paint?? :happy204:

[steve s]

i'll be there testing my new car.sold my it7.

[zracre]

yep shiny stuff!! Steve, what did you get for replacement?

[Mazmarc63]

64 Spec Miatas. That has to be a class record.

Kip in the 944s. :unsure:

5 days till race day.

[Xian]

I'll be there too... ITA looks like there's going to be plenty of competition!

Christian

[p.keane]

25 ITB cars, that should be fun. I will be there in my Accord.

[steve s]

evans it's a surprise. but i'm in the same group.[hint] B)

[Hotshoe]

Well,

... I will be one of the 65 Miatas. Kurt and I are shaking down the car we are going to run in the 13hr race at VIR.
... Atleast I don't have to worry about Steve hitting me....lol

... Rick Thompson

[gprodracer]

I get out of ITC and go to GP so I can get out of running with SM. Now I'm grouped with the SM's, and the other Prods aren't with me. OOOHHHH to have metal bumpers and fenders again!! Thank goodness I'm finally faster than all of them now. Word is that us Prods are going to ask for a split start, or just start way behind anyway.
Lets all be nice to each other, be careful, and watch for people coming up from behind please. Remember, if they have caught up to you, they are faster, and if they aren't in your class, let them move on..
It's always worked for me.
See you all there! Lets have some fun!!!!!!!!!!
Mark P Larson
Fast Family Racing
#83 GP Nissan 210

[its66]

i'll be there testing my new car.sold my it7.
[/b]

hehehe...I know, I know.. :eclipsee_steering: ...you better keep that thing shiny. See ya there

[p.keane]

Evan, can you look me up sometime this weekend. I would like to meet you. Yellow Accord #23 ITB. I have any Infinity motor home and a black Pace with KBR on the back door. Thanks PK.

[zracre]

sure! I will be in the red Integra pitting with the grey SM #06 I would post a pic but im computer dumb...I dont know how to put an image in that is recognizable at less than 1k...

[lateapex911]

Oh boy Evan,,,, :wacko: NOW you're in trouble!

The CRB is looking for you....

Don't worry, Peters a Honda guy like you, you'll be ok. ;)

[zracre]

ok i changed it to my avatar pic :D

[Mazmarc63]

Okay, 70 Wreck me otters :o

That has to be a class size record in all of SCCA history. Anybody remember any larger? Glad I'm in group 4, even if Evan painted his car red. :P

[zracre]

its not red... its Rosso Scudiera. :D

[flaboy]

Anyone running in ITB that will let me hook a rope onto and pull me around the track??LOL

[steve s]

hey rick if i can catch you i may have a chance to hit you but i'm not even close.
don't worry about me worry about the 60 + SM around you. they don't play fair down here, be careful , see you at the track.

almost forgot. evan that red should get you about 2 sec. faster.
jim i'll see you guys at the track. carlos would not be there so hollywood here's your chance to get some points.

[its66]

its not red... its Rosso Scudiera. :D
[/b]

Me thinks Evan was jealous of all the looks that the "Pumpkin 'Teg" got. Maybe a case of Krylon Envy??

Looks great bro...can't wait to see it.

[orlando_wrx]

Evan, can you look me up sometime this weekend. I would like to meet you. Yellow Accord #23 ITB. I have any Infinity motor home and a black Pace with KBR on the back door. Thanks PK.
[/b]

Hey Pete, good to see the accord is comming out! Mike and I will be unloading on Friday, want us to save a space for ya?

New paint on evans car? wow, now it'll look as good as it runs, yay!

[p.keane]

Joel, that would be great. I should be there friday afternoon. PK

[zracre]

Me thinks Evan was jealous of all the looks that the "Pumpkin 'Teg" got. Maybe a case of Krylon Envy??

Looks great bro...can't wait to see it.
[/b]

I wish it was krylon! I could only get it in Global BC.....my painter looked at me like I was joking when he realized he had to clear the interior! Looking forward to it this weekend!!

[gsbaker]

Drat! I've been planning on this for nearly a month, and then my better half reminds me of a wedding we promised to attend this weekend. :(

You guys have fun! :birra:

[Mazmarc63]

Greg,

The wedding can't possibly take two days. Come over for a few hours and torture yourself. Then go to the wedding and continue the torture. :D

Come by the garages where tech is. There is always plenty to talk about, especially if Mike Flynn is around. :o

[DavidM]

I wish it was krylon! I could only get it in Global BC.....my painter looked at me like I was joking when he realized he had to clear the interior! Looking forward to it this weekend!!
[/b]

Dunno....not sure the red is any better than the white. :P Maybe paisley.

What happened to all you slackers that were coming to Road Atlanta?

Have fun this weekend. I got too much to do around the house and need to save up for the Labor day race, SIC, and ARRC.

David

[zracre]

I had to work to pay for the trip to the ARRC and Daytona this weekend...DavidM, when are ya going to come down and try out the high banks??
I'm hoping the storm coming will suck the moisture out of the atmosphere and give us a nice dry weekend...dont want to get it wet!!

[gsbaker]

Greg,

The wedding can't possibly take two days. Come over for a few hours and torture yourself....
[/b]Now there's an invitation! :)

[zracre]

Ok there was far too much carnage at this race...I'm glad my car came away without a scratch, but there are many cars that left really damaged. I hope Mark is ok he hit the wall pretty hard. I guess the heat got to many people. I thought I was going to see a TR8 there too...

[JeffYoung]

LOL Evan, you had to look fast.

I ran the Sat. qualifying, car ran great, new front spoiler got me 500 rpm on the top end.

Came in, people pointing at the front of teh car -- thought I had cracked the spoiler. Nope, left front hub caught fire, not 100% sure why and that is a new one.

Melted the piston seals in the caliper, replaced those. Bolted back up, and still leaked like a sieve. Actually melted the INNER o-ring seal between the caliper halves as well, and I just don't have that seal.

So, I got 4 laps in. Laps per dollar this weekend wasn't so hot.

Jim C., nice to meet you. I'll be back next year. I had a huge grin on my face for the four laps I did run. Lotsa fun.

Evan, I should be at the SIC. Until I got whacked at Charlotte, I was having a pretty good year.

[lateapex911]

What'd ya qualify Jeff? Who was there? Who was fast? Who was too fast, LOL?

[gsbaker]

Hey Jake,

You coming down for the Rolex 24 in '07, you lightweight? ;)

[trd771]

Jeff, That why I always travel with a set of hubs, and an extra set of calipers. Thats too bad things did not go well. What do you think the 8 is capable of down at daytona. I am thinking of bring mine down in the future.

[Fi3555]

Anybody know the results of the Daytona double SARRC ? I don't see it posted anywhere yet.

[SATURNRACER]

Hey Evan, Great Job!!
I am sure you saw me sitting in the infield by the horseshoe ,,,,,ARRGH!!!

An ITS Mazda spun a couple lenghts in front of me and you know the term when you spin both feet in!!!!
as in clutch and brake....
Well he let his car roll back across the track and T-boned me in the left rear wheel which put me into a 360 spin and broke my trailing arm and just about everything else,,,,
My crew did round up all the parts from the pull and save and we had it back together for Sunday qualifier.........
Well half way around on the pace lap my motor let go...........I saw your red rocket from two different places the infield in the horseshoe and the kink on the super stretch if only I gad a camera.

Now I get to build the motor I have always wanted for the Saturn...I have been on all stock stuff...Now I just need someone that can tap into the OBD-2 on this thing....

O.B.
ITA 97 SATURN SC2

[zracre]

sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you! oh well at least you get to build up a motor! I was sad to see you parked with no rear bumper...i have been in almost the same spot watching a qualifier...it is very frustrating. My car left without a scratch...I got lucky. Good luck on the buildup!

[wpspeedracer]

Ok there was far too much carnage at this race...I'm glad my car came away without a scratch, but there are many cars that left really damaged. I hope Mark is ok he hit the wall pretty hard. I guess the heat got to many people. I thought I was going to see a TR8 there too...
[/b]


Evan- after a few days to asertain the situation I'm left with, here's the report: The S is on life support and we will probably pull the plug tomorrow night - DESTROYED- It's amazing how one mistake can destroy a car so quickly ( and amazing that I have yet to hear a thing from the perp responsible ) though thanks to all others who have contact me to see how I was.

And a HUGE THANKS again to ISAAC.....and to Daytona for the Soft Wall......THey both worked as designed and I'm here today.....That was definately a scary moment.

So I'm gone for awhile as I search for another donor car to start the build process again. Andy has offered his Achieva which will be an intresting switch to a front drive car.....guess it's time to learn to drive both types of drive....

Mark
#54 ITS

[JeffYoung]

MARK -- what happened to the car????? You looked great out there Saturday.

Did Greg Ira's Z get crunched as well?

Maybe I'm lucky I broke early.

[wpspeedracer]

The Double Yellow came out as we all went into turn 6 . I went low onto the bank and, while still accelerating to stay with the pack, began to slow down and file in for the yellow, next thing I know I was hit in the rear, the car rotated and I took off like the space shuttle straight up into the wall.
I now have new found HUGE respect for the banking there and will never fall in behind anyone's bumper. I wll always give room when we are going around the bank. You really have no control when someone touches you on the bank....we all really have to respect that....consequences are huge.

[JeffYoung]

Wow, I am sorry. That's awful -- totalled your car under DOUBLE YELLOW??? And the guy never came and said he was sorry???

That is a good point about the banking. I imagine even a slight touch there could be a huge problem.

I'm really sorry to hear about the car. Hope you get another back together soon. We've lost way too many S cars in the SEDiv the last two years or so. Wish everyone would chill out a bit. It's racing, and we have to be aggressive, but stilll............

[wpspeedracer]

And the guy never came and said he was sorry???
[/b]
Suprisingly - no....It's a shame too. I remember that's how I met Evan. He got turned into me at a start and spun me out, and after the race, he found me in the pits and apologized, and it wasn't even his fault....

Now the the fog has cleared, I'll start looking for another S. Hopefully I can swap most of the parts over to the new car. The bad is I had two years invested in building that car....hopefully now that I know what to do (in theory), I'll be back by the Thanksgiving Turkey Trot

[steve s]

hey mark i don't know you .but you should at least tell the thruth about what happened .
not the version that makes you look good.
the full course caution came out before i got on the banks the IT-7 race 1st to 3rd were nose to tail with each other we all slowed down and was in line single file. while up on the banks you were passing everyone on the low side of the banks [double yellow means no passing]this can be confirmed withthe other drivers.
i donot know if you were hit from behind but you came up to my new car the dark blue rx7 and side swipe me then pulled in front of me to cut me off .i jumped on my brakes to avoid you. and you went straight into the banking headon.i thought i was on I-95 being cut off by a driver with road rage.thanks to you i now have
to replace the left front fender and check my suspension,and repair the right side of the car after you put me into the guard rail .
i was tempted to file a protest against you but evans said he knew you and you don't drive like that and maybe you did not see the D-Y.
that accident was the hot topic with the it-7 drivers because of your stupidity you almost took out the first &
second place drivers.

[wpspeedracer]

If I made a mistake, then I was wrong, however, I am recounting what I remember and what other drivers told me. Andy Fox was right behind me and he remembers seeing me slowing down and # 3 passed him and hit me - under double yellow. I remember everyone slowing down, to my right was mahem, so I went left and low and tried to remain low when I was hit, however, I do remember the yellow and was not trying to pass. If someone has a video I would like to see it because again if I was wrong, I need to know to make sure I don't do it again. I too was going to file a protest, however, hesitated because we all race together and I knew it was not intentional, just racing. If I was wrong, then my apologizes to you and I'll assure all that will not happen again. It definately was mahem at that time and nothing intentional.

mark

[jmark]

MARK -- what happened to the car????? You looked great out there Saturday.

Did Greg Ira's Z get crunched as well?

Maybe I'm lucky I broke early.
[/b]What happened to Guy Marvin's 240Z? That car has been very fast all year.

[benspeed]

If I made a mistake, then I was wrong, however, I am recounting what I remember and what other drivers told me. Andy Fox was right behind me and he remembers seeing me slowing down and # 3 passed him and hit me - under double yellow. I remember everyone slowing down, to my right was mahem, so I went left and low and tried to remain low when I was hit, however, I do remember the yellow and was not trying to pass. If someone has a video I would like to see it because again if I was wrong, I need to know to make sure I don't do it again. I too was going to file a protest, however, hesitated because we all race together and I knew it was not intentional, just racing. If I was wrong, then my apologizes to you and I'll assure all that will not happen again. It definately was mahem at that time and nothing intentional.

mark
[/b]

I wish everybody had a open attitude when getting caught up in a wreck - not many folks are willing to take responsibility or are willing to hear that they might have been partly at fault. Professional reply.

[JeffYoung]

Ben, I agree, especially given the tone of the response to Mark's post and the fact that Mark was hit from behind under a double yellow.......

I would be interested in seeing the video.....

[zracre]

results are up at mylaps

[JeffYoung]

Jake, in S, K V. Steenburg's 944s was way fast. Won both races, but the Saturday race with the 190E was very close.

The RXs seemed quick. A couple kept the two leaders in sight.

Only 1 325is I believe. Ran top 1/3.

Overall, things look pretty balanced to me. I wasn't there Sunday but I think Marvin's 240z ran 2;16 before it got totalled, which was close to Flynn/Van Steenburg.

Jake, that's a FUN track. I liked it. You should make the trip sometime.

[mrottkamp]

Hey Guys, This is this guy driving that nasty red MR2 that flipped in qualifying. I justed wanted to give a shout out to everyone who gave me positive words of encouragement afterwards and to the safety workers that yanked me out of the car while I was on the roof..Now we know why the rules are so tough for the roll cages. That cage saved me from having a broken neck..

I was also sad to hear about the black 944 that was crashed. Mark, you were my instructor at Daytona about 2 years ago.

I will be back, this time with a black mr2 in much better shape..

Thanks Mike

182 ITA MR2

[zracre]

glad to see you are ok...The car didn't look that bad...transfer parts to the new car? good luck hope to see ya out there soon!

[mrottkamp]

I have an 85 MR2 that is in really nice solid shape. I know I'll never be competetive, but I just love buzzing around in these little guys..I will start the transfer soon..The red car really held up great, it is just getting real old and the body is really starting to fall apart. I think tech was happy when I told them I would just trash the red one..

Mike R

[gsbaker]

...And a HUGE THANKS again to ISAAC.....and to Daytona for the Soft Wall......THey both worked as designed and I'm here today.....That was definitely a scary moment.
[/b]Mark,

Very sorry to hear about your car getting zeroed out, but glad you are okay. Did you ever find a video?

[Xian]

Mark,

Very sorry to hear about your car getting zeroed out, but glad you are okay. Did you ever find a video?
[/b]
I've got some video of the hit into the wall but the field of view doesn't pick up the initial hit that caused everything... it picks up after both cars have made contact and are headed "up" the banking.

Christian

[wpspeedracer]

I've got some video of the hit into the wall but the field of view doesn't pick up the initial hit that caused everything... it picks up after both cars have made contact and are headed "up" the banking.
[/b]
Christian
would you mind emailing me what you have - I'll keep it for posterity....

To further add to something Steve S said "you side swiped me", I think I may have but there was nothing I could do. I said "someone hit me in the rear - HARD - " and I remember then sliding into a car on my right side - it was either a blue or a green car, then my car rotated and took off into the wall. I have no clue who hit my car and ther was nothing I could do after I was hit.

[Xian]

Christian
would you mind emailing me what you have - I'll keep it for posterity....[/b]
Sure thing. I'll trim it down a bit (currently is start thru the "incident") as it's currently about 35mb.

[Xian]

Sure thing. I'll trim it down a bit (currently is start thru the "incident") as it's currently about 35mb.
[/b]
Well, I haven't edited it down but I have posted it up on Google Videos... it's in two parts. The first part is up through the Double Yellow and one or two laps into the caution. It picks back up again at the restart.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7738901058081551810

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2581866400975150602

If anyone has any line or driving suggestions please let me know as I'm still a rookie. :D

Christian

[zracre]

that is a hard hit! Im glad the safety equipment did its job...

[gsbaker]

If anyone has any line or driving suggestions please let me know as I'm still a rookie. :D

Christian
[/b]
Christian,

Mark's line going into the wall is the wrong line. ;)

Can we get a copy of that from Google, or from you?

[wpspeedracer]

Christian,

Mark's line going into the wall is the wrong line. ;)

Can we get a copy of that from Google, or from you?
[/b]

You think? - Evan told me to go up high and then accelerate down the bank for a higher top end....do you think I went a little too high???

Mark

[gsbaker]

Either Evan was pulling your leg, or you need to refine that line just a wee bit. :)

[Xian]

Christian,

Mark's line going into the wall is the wrong line. ;)

Can we get a copy of that from Google, or from you?
[/b]
Hmmm... I'll try and keep that in mind. ;)

BTW, Mark, were you wearing an Isaac in the crash?

Once I get it cut down to just the crash, I'll email it to both of you.

Christian

[zracre]

Thats.....a little too high!

[wpspeedracer]

Thats.....a little too high!
[/b]

Thanks Evan....I'll remember that next time....

and yes I was wearing the Isaac - never leave home without it....

Mark

[Mazmarc63]

Hey Mark,

Any new data as to how this happened?? Someone must know who hit who.

My heart sank when I saw your car, but I was very relieved to see you.

[wpspeedracer]

Marc
I've watched the video a hundred times trying to figure it out....It's just not clear enough so we may never know. However, there is no excuse for any contact and I may have made the mistake.....Hopefully I'll know more when I begin tearing apart my car on the rebuild. My apologies to all.....I'll be a better driver for it.

[Xian]

and yes I was wearing the Isaac - never leave home without it....

Mark
[/b]
Same here. After seeing Scott Giles' old car hit the inside of T12@RA during last year's ARRC Enduro, I decided there wasn't anyway I could go out without some sort of protection.

BTW, did you end up with any neck soreness from the hit?

[wpspeedracer]

BTW, did you end up with any neck soreness from the hit?
[/b]

Tuesday I was a little sore, but nothing bad at all after I saw myself how hard the car hit the wall....amazing what a little piece of gear can do....
Mark

[Xian]

Marc
I've watched the video a hundred times trying to figure it out....It's just not clear enough so we may never know. However, there is no excuse for any contact and I may have made the mistake.....Hopefully I'll know more when I begin tearing apart my car on the rebuild. My apologies to all.....I'll be a better driver for it.
[/b]
FWIW, I didn't see the initial impact... I picked up on it visually when your car hit the wall. What I heard in the paddock after the race was that you had passed a few cars under yellow and were in the process of passing an IT7 that was dropping down the banking to "fall into line" with the rest of the field. Apparently he didn't see you coming up past him and managed to clip the RR of your car which rotated it and sent it directly towards the wall.

As I said, I didn't see it firsthand as all the action was going on too far ahead on the banking for me to see it through my windshield banner...



Tuesday I was a little sore, but nothing bad at all after I saw myself how hard the car hit the wall....amazing what a little piece of gear can do....
Mark
[/b]
Greg should be proud of what he's contributed to the safety of the sport. :D

[gsbaker]

We'd rather be lucky than good.



Tuesday I was a little sore...[/b]
Mark,

Since you are local I expect we will have an oportunity to talk more about this, but did you by any chance have any DAS onboard that could provide G loads? I've done some back-of-the-envelope noodling, but I'd like to know more.

[Bob Sieck]

FWIW - I was between Christians' view and the cars involved. My view wasn't ideal, but IMHO the cars ahead of me were "overdriving" the double yellow flag - which was visible at turn 5, 6, and the blinking NASCAR lites on the high banks when I arrived at those locations. Only the drivers involved know if they saw the warnings.
In hindsight (its great stuff) when we passed the 240Z impaled in the armco past turn #1 you knew that car had to be removed and the only way was with a wrecker - so we should have been looking for warnings . .
Bob Sieck
ITA Miata - sometimes

[zracre]

As I passed the wrecked 240 I saw Mark D going slow and dented as he got back up to speed. I knew a double yellow was in order so I checked the stations as I approached them. Mark D and I raced at each other and the yellows came out as we exited the infield. There was another silver ITS RX7 that passed us then fell into line a lap later (he was well aware that he did a booboo). In the group I was in (Jim C Mark D) It seemed like all was well until we came around and saw Mark N's car destroyed. It kinda ruined the race to see smashed cars like that. We all learn from these things so it should just make us better and more aware. The only good thing is that we know our safety gear is functional and we should stay on top of keeping it that way. I hope to see all involved out there soon!
Also it is refreshing to see Mark N's attitude towards what happenned...he learned from it and will be a better overall racer with his attitude :birra:

[Xian]

In hindsight (its great stuff) when we passed the 240Z impaled in the armco past turn #1 you knew that car had to be removed and the only way was with a wrecker - so we should have been looking for warnings . .[/b]
Yep, I was kinda surprised the double yellow didn't come out earlier than it did...

[lateapex911]

Also it is refreshing to see Mark N's attitude towards what happenned...he learned from it and will be a better overall racer with his attitude :birra:
[/b]


I've been following this thread, and while i still don't know exactly who did what where, I am impressed with Mark's openess and fairness. Stand up stuff. Good on ya, Mark!

[charrbq]

I had to miss this race due to having my heart cut on and patched. It's a great way to lose weight, but I don't recommend it. However, I really had hoped to make it before hand.

I'd heard about the carnage...it seems like every couple of years the big one happens. In defense of the delay on the full course yellow. Having been on the radio before working nationals, there is a protocall that usually has to be maintained. Corners are the immediate eyes and ears. They call in the situation such as the Z's and give their opinion of what it will take to have a clear track. That goes to control and to the steward(s). A decision is made by them, relayed to control, relayed to the track workers, and the result is displayed in the appropriate manner of flags. As fast as this can work, it still takes time, and at race speeds, a lot of ground can be covered before action is taken. That said, after seeing the Z in the wall on the tape, I'd be looking for a double yellow. I wouldn't slow down on the rest of the track, but I'd have my eyes open.

The first time I noticed the full course was just before the oval, but the crashing cars might not have gotten it there. However, the lights were on and visable. I know it's no easier to suddenly slow a car down on the oval than it is to teleport my ITC car out of the way of a covy of Spec Miata's, but clearly, other people did. As to who hit who and who's fault it was, apparently no one knows.

Pure class was shown in assuming or denying guilt. That could've been ugly. It's done, so it's time to move on. But it's clear to most that some very suspect thinking was involved in the actions taken on the track prior to the incident. Thankfully the only things hurt were cars and egos.

[wpspeedracer]

Another intresting fact - do you know that where my wreck happened I was completely out of view of any corner worker. When I think back, had something serious happened - fire/injury- there is no way the corner workers can see anything in that portion of the track to offer assistance of any kind. It was quite some time until I saw the first corner worker. No fault of there's, Daytona has no provision for anyone to watch that portion of the track. During NASCAR races, the teams spotters have view of that area, however, it leaves us unwatched. Any comments/ideas/suggestions? Should we bring this up to ?whomever? to consider someone to be stationed there?

Mark

[Xian]

The first time I noticed the full course was just before the oval, but the crashing cars might not have gotten it there. However, the lights were on and visable. I know it's no easier to suddenly slow a car down on the oval than it is to teleport my ITC car out of the way of a covy of Spec Miata's, but clearly, other people did. As to who hit who and who's fault it was, apparently no one knows.

Pure class was shown in assuming or denying guilt. That could've been ugly. It's done, so it's time to move on. But it's clear to most that some very suspect thinking was involved in the actions taken on the track prior to the incident. Thankfully the only things hurt were cars and egos.
[/b]
That's where I picked up the double yellow... in fact all the drivers in front of me saw it and were waiving their free arm to signal drivers behind them that there was a quick slow down up ahead. Good, head's up driving by everyone out there!

I agree with you 100% on Mark's responses here. Although I don't know him, he seems like a real "stand up" sorta guy. Best of luck on the rebuild and I look forward to seeing you out on track soon :)

[charrbq]

Another intresting fact - do you know that where my wreck happened I was completely out of view of any corner worker. When I think back, had something serious happened - fire/injury- there is no way the corner workers can see anything in that portion of the track to offer assistance of any kind. It was quite some time until I saw the first corner worker.

Mark
[/b]
I've wondered about that before. It's clear that, even with the tunnel vision of the video camera, you were way out of sight with a fairly major accident. I suppose that the infield corner workers could've seen you...maybe. But it would've taken a while to get someone to you without the dispatch of a crash truck.

When I've raced at Texas Motor Speedway, we had workers (and TMS crash crews) in NASCAR 1,2,3,&4 just in case of such an incident, and it's only a 1.5 mile oval.

Last year they barbequed an EP Mazda in NASCAR 1. The course didn't go yellow until I was past the incident, and I was way at the back in the infield.

[steve s]

this is not to blame anyone,, sodon't take it personal whoever i may offend.
that said this is what happenned from my perspective ccar # 3 the lead it7 car and the car that was cut off and carried up the bank.
i was leading about 5or 6 cars we got the D. Y. on the infield we all slowed .the 3 lead cars in the group were 3 it-7. we all got on the banks [slowed pace]i was about quarter way up the bank and was coming down to the low line of the bank [ stupid of me to think that D.Y. no one would be passing because everyone in the group was in line and slow] out of the corner of my helmet [ door mirrors on the banks don't do much]i see someone passing me ,i try to pull up the bank but too late we hit and he take me up the bank . he was on the gas that is why he hit head on in the bank. ithink if mark was trying to slow down we would have hit and he would have gone to the flat on the track instead of climbing the banks [ it's pretty steep there]. on his way back down he almost took out the 2nd car in line the # 147 it-7. that's the green car that just escaped on the flat of the track.
that said i know who was around me at the D Y and mark was nowhere near me . maybe 4 th inline????? but i was aware of who was directly behind me b4 i came down the bank i loked in my inside rear view mirror and everyone was slowed and inline [lesson learned always expect the unexpected don't drop your guard even under D Y .]
blaming and pointing fingers would not make it right so it done, that's why i did not post anything since my last post . just trying to give some info so you guys can put an end to it, :dead_horse:

[gprodracer]

Steve S.

Please re-read your post. Your first statement is "I'm not trying to blame anyone", then you proceed to blame Mark N. for the entire incident. I don't know either of you, but from Mark's posts, he has been willing to learn from, and accept any responsibility for the incident. To me, that shows a huge amount of humility and respect for all who were involved. Read his posts from the beginning of this thread until now. IMHO he has re-evaluated his role in this, and any mistake he made will not be repeated. That being said, there are 3 sides to every story, and now we have heard 2 of them. As racers, we are all sorry to hear about accidents because we all have to pay to fix (or replace) our cars. We can't replace people!
No one did anything to intentionally wreck anyone, and Mark has apologized for anything he may have done. Please give him the respect he has given you, and if you have any driving tips/advice for him, I have no doubt that he will consider them in the future.
I know you meant well in your post, just read it from his perspective.
Thanks,
Mark P. Larson

[steve s]

It's amazing how one mistake can destroy a car so quickly ( and amazing that I have yet to hear a thing from the perp responsible )quote from speedracer # 39 post.
his first post blames someone for the accident. he was hit from behind was mentioned after?????BS i say.if you are hit from behind your're not going to paas 2 cars and get up alongside me at full speed. what i think happened was ,he did not see the DY was passing everyone and we made contact and he thinks it's someone else's fault ????? or he saw the DY and know that area of the track is not observed by workers and figured he'll make up some track positions so he'll pass some cars and then it was my fault that i came down on himand it's my fault for the accident.any way you look at it he passed 2 cars and was about to pass the 3rd car when we hit. so it's my fault and i apologize for my stupidity i will learn from this experience.
do you really think if you are slowed down for a DY you are going to destroy a car that bad ???? climbing up the bank to say the least?????? get real if he was of the gas he may have the the wall but would have survived as i did .
i find it amazing that some guys on this web site is trying to condone passing under DY.
think about this for a while b4 you reply. he would have been my hero if he had passed all these car unnoticed by any corner workers.then it would have been his word against other drivers word.
i am not saying i don't make mistake s out there but i don't blame someone else for it .
it could have been much worse for everyone thank god it worked out ok for all affected.
we have our health and that's what matters.

[gsbaker]

Now is probably a good time to call it a racing incident and leave it at that.

[944racer]

I can't take it any more. I have to reply to some of the things Steve is saying. I was on the bumper of the green IT7, probably 30 feet behind Mark and Steve when they hit. I saw the DY at turn 6, no problem. Many cars didn't, like the yellow and white Prelude. We all went through the corner in a big gaggle, at lest 2-3 cars wide through the corner. Mark didn't pass anyone under yellow. He was side by side with other cars. The only blatant car passing was the yellow and white one.
If Mark and Steve were side by side through the corner, who allows who to be ahead? Whey did Steve come down without looking for a car to be under him?
Guess what, WE WILL NEVER KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS!!!! If you asked every driver that saw it, you would get a diferent version of what happened. Let's move on and learn from what happened. Maybe it will never happen again but I doubt it.
Andy Fox Green/Purple Achieva "Kermit"

[Charles Perry]

guys,
Sorry to come into this late, I was driving the white Prelude and saw the whole thing.
First, you are correct, I did not see the double yellow, my fault. I watch the flags very carefully but missed that one. So as we all were going up the banking I was closing on the 944 and the other car quickly. I saw the red car come down the banking and hit the 944 on the left rear and they both went up the track into the wall. I do not kow what was up with the red car, it seemed to me that he came down on the 944 real quickly, in fact I could not understand why. I mentioned this to my buddies that it almost looked like something broke because he came down so fast.
Now to the guy in the red car, sorry, there may be more to this that I did not see, I am just telling you guys my viewpoint.
Marvin's Z is messed up pretty good, probably needs a new front clip, he hopes there is no engine damage. Should know this weekend.
Charles Perry

Sorry, he hit the 944 on the right rear!!

[lateapex911]

Well, it gets interesting...........

This is a classic situation of different viewpoints from different drivers.

It appears that there is significant correlation though that takes the blame Mark has accepted off Mark..at least to the degree that he's been willing to go to accept it and make good.

This is begining to sound much more plausible. Congrats to those who have admited less than perfect behavior here..... thats not easy to do. Mark, sorry about your car, but your character seems to be intact.

[Domino]

What happened to Guy Marvin's 240Z? That car has been very fast all year.
[/b]

He said the left front is smashed to the frame. But it's nothing that can't be fixed.

[matt batson]

wasnt there...didnt see it....
But, from the testimony on here I would have to say that Mark actually has nothing whatsoever to apologize about.
Just my opinion...

[DoubleXL240Z]

[attachmentid=562]hopefully the link works, for a pic of Guys 240.

[charrbq]

OUCH! I'm glad someone made mention that it was a Z. From the way it was stuffed into the guardrail, you couldn't even see the front end. I thought it was some sort of hatchback. Sorry. :wacko: Glad no one was hurt.

[Chris Wire]

[attachmentid=562]hopefully the link works, for a pic of Guys 240.
[/b]

Not to change the subject (much?), but exactly how did the Z end up stuffed in the guard rail?

[zracre]

OUCH! I'm glad someone made mention that it was a Z. From the way it was stuffed into the guardrail, you couldn't even see the front end. I thought it was some sort of hatchback. Sorry. :wacko: Glad no one was hurt.
[/b]


It is a hatchback....just a rwd inline six hatchback! :D

[steve s]

ok mr. perry which red car came down .i don't recall any red car around. or are you trying to set me up ????? i sold my red car i was driving a blue car when mark and myself came together.
944 racer did you see a red car hit mark then he may be the one who hit him from behind.
p.s do we have any more surprise eyewitnesses to the incident please come forward but get your facts correct the stewards don't like liars. :dead_horse:

[charrbq]

It is a hatchback....just a rwd inline six hatchback! :D
[/b]
True, but from the video it looked like a Pinto!

[steve s]

mark can you chime in here and tell the witness for hire where i hit you were you behind me or in front of me ????? also evan you were in impound after the race did you hear what colin had to say about the incident ?????and was my car red??????
i am sugesting to mr perry that not only did you not see the DY you did not see the incident or you are the cause of the incident since you may be the guy approaching mark from behind and hit him out of control .
[ First, you are correct, I did not see the double yellow, my fault. I watch the flags very carefully but missed that one. So as we all were going up the banking I was closing on the 944 and the other car quickly. I saw the red car come down the banking and hit the 944 on the left rear and they both went up the track into the wall. I do not kow what was up with the red car, it seemed to me that he came down on the 944 real quickly, in fact I could not understand why.] this is a quote from your previous post mr perry.
mr perry if i need your services as a profesional witness at the track can i hire you ???????
p.s. i am a little pissed about these accusations to say the least .so i am taking it a little personal.

[zracre]

I was ahead of both of you when the incident happened. I have raced wheel to wheel with both of you and can say you both are very good drivers. Steve you wouldnt win so much if you werent. Mark and I end up on the grid close to each other all the time and we deal with each other on the track without incident most of the time (I hit him once). After watching the incident on tape, it is hard to say. Call it a racing incident and everyone should learn from it. even under yellow things can happen with 80 guys and gals doped up on adrenaline in fast cars on an awesome track are set loose. It is unfortunate what happened to those involved. I saw 2 ITS RX7's with damage, a wasted 240Z, a rolled up MR2, a smashed Saturn, a bent Neon and a totalled 944 JUST IN OUR GROUP! S#!t happens out there we can just do our best. I have left many times with one of the bashed in cars and it is no fun but it happens part of the sport. It happens to the best of us.

[charrbq]

I have left many times with one of the bashed in cars and it is no fun but it happens part of the sport. It happens to the best of us.
[/quote]
Okay...the only time I've ever crashed a car was yours...at it's first outing. You just won't let me live it down quietly. :lol:

Talk about stupid things happening during a race. The yesterday's race at MSRH had SM's passing, at race speed, for two laps under a full course yellow...with a pace car. Don't know all the penalties passed out, but the paperwork from the corners took hours to sort out. :unsure:

[Hotshoe]

I have left many times with one of the bashed in cars and it is no fun but it happens part of the sport. It happens to the best of us.
[/b]

... I know how you guys feel, been there done that. I have had people run into me when I feel like they shouldn't have. I remember one time when I had someone tap me from behind and I spun off to the side of the racing line, got missed by the two cars behind me, then got collected by a lap car (that had hit me a few laps earlier in the same race while trying to reenter the track)and I could see him coming long before he hit me. Hint, Hint...... So I guess that's just racing......... Oh yeah, and the Caution was out ..... lol

... Of course I hit a car this year that spun off the racing line and the waving yellow was out. I was really caught off guard. I drove into the corner not knowing that the track was covered with dirt and lost control of my car and slid into a defenseless bystander, for which I was very sorry. Too bad I didn't get a surface condition flag also..........

... So sometimes that old saying comes into play ( What goes around usually comes around ) It doesn't have to involve the same people, but it always seems to work it's way out.

... Rick Thompson

[Mazmarc63]

What Evan said.

In response to Chris Wires question......................

Clean start (I didn't get a good one). Eells (Rx-7), Witham (Rx-7) and Marvin (240Z) get around me.

Ending the first lap, Witham and Marvin are side by side braking into T1. I'm a few feet behind to the left. Guy gives Alan all the room he can on the inside without going off at the exit. Alan gets loose, countersteers and snaps to the right, contacting Guy's LR with his RF. This turns Guy to the left and directly into my R door as I was trying to get by on the inside. The contact spun me 360 clockwise to the grass. Guy continued to the guardrail in front of T&S. I continued with signifigant r side damage. I finished 5th in class. Guy got towed off. Alan continued and was involved in at least two more incidents that I know of. One witness stated my door prevented Guy from a worse fate. After seeing his damage, I'm not going to whine about mine. I will race in two weeks.

That is how I and my video camera saw it.

The red glow in the picture is a reflection from my tool box. :D

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g211/Mazmarc63/crash1.jpg

[Chris Wire]

What Evan said.

In response to Chris Wires question......................

...After seeing his damage, I'm not going to whine about mine. I will race in two weeks.


[/b]

Thanks for the clarification, Marc. Class act as always.

Sorry to see the extent of the damage. I only have a left side door at home, or I'd let you have it. Let me know if you or Jim need any help.

The quality of responses in this thread speaks volumes.

[Richy Gonzalez]

I'm not here to pass judgment on what occurred but I do feel that the respect shown on this board re-enforces my belief that IT is the group for me. I'm very sorry to hear about the incidents and the hardship that will cause to those involved. Hope you guys are back soon :023:

[its66]

Richie,
YOURS is the one we've got to get fixed and get back out there. I hate seeing you fight with that Honda. If you want, I can help you find/build an RX7. We don't mind hanging out with ex-honda people.

Chris,
Don't you still have a red door stored in your garage. You won't need it for a while. We'll return it when we're done with it. :)

BTW, mine has been fixed for a week already :happy204:

[zracre]

Jim are you trying to steal people from the honda camp?? Ha Se y'all at Sebring!

[Chris Wire]

Chris,
Don't you still have a red door stored in your garage. You won't need it for a while. We'll return it when we're done with it. :)
[/b]

As a matter of fact I do. Hollywood is welcome to it whenever he wants. That's what makes this IT deal work! :023:



BTW, mine has been fixed for a week already :happy204:
[/b]

What about the transmission, HammerHands? :eclipsee_steering:

[its66]

Jim are you trying to steal people from the honda camp?? Ha Se y'all at Sebring!
[/b]
:P Could be...Nah. I just want to see Richie finish a weekend with no problems. Believe me, I know how frustating that is. Especially after the CRX was so good to him



As a matter of fact I do. Hollywood is welcome to it whenever he wants. That's what makes this IT deal work! :023:
What about the transmission, HammerHands? :eclipsee_steering:
[/b]

HammerHands?? Dude please... Trans is good also. Like I said, mine is done. It even has two coats of my super secret Sebring long course wax on it. (specially formulated for less drag) :D

I'll be down Saturday, but the 66 is staying home. Work is preventing me from committing to racing. :( Back out in October(unless I can make the SIC)

[Chris Wire]

I'll be down Saturday, but the 66 is staying home. Work is preventing me from committing to racing. :( [/b]

Yeah, I know. The "35" isn't going to make it either! :D

I'll be fine being a spectator for a day. Hopefully the racing if clean, fast, and safe for everyone! :023: