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View Full Version : VW Leads ITS at Watkins Glen



Bildon
07-24-2006, 02:21 PM
http://www.bildon.com/pub/WGI_start.jpg

So this is pretty much what the ITS field looked like all day Sunday. Much to our surprise I might add!

Friday, Test Day:
We spent Friday at open test day tweaking and reparing small things that are still being worked out in development of the Corrado VR6. The plan was to test susp. setups, some splitter configs and different tire combos. New Hoosiers vs new Kumho etc. However during the inital test runs we began to have some problems. The splitter/air damn dropped down and began to self destruct requiring an early abort of the session and a lengthy repair. On another test run the brakes went completly soft and began to pulsate. While troubleshooting this we realised the new untested bias valve was split internally and this required a complete flushing of the system after we removed the valve. After corner weighting the car and missing a session to do so, we were set to go out for the final session when the track closed down for the day. Best time of the day was only a 2:20.x, nothing to write home about and only 5 sec faster than the ITB Golf.

Saturday, Qualifying:
So, Saturday arrives, it's pouring rain. We know the track as well as our driveway so we stay dry for the 1st session. The 2nd session whowever is qualifying. The track is slightly drying but still not enough to trust a new car to slicks...and good thing we didnt! The new unbiased, untested brake setup were a mess! Going into T1 on the first flying lap the right rear locked up an istantly pitched the car slideways... a quick jerk on the wheel and application of full throttle brought it back but the trust was now gone. After a few laps the rear tires had generated enough heat that they were now only locking when the brakes were applied hard in a few heavy braking turns...but still the result was the same, instant rear kickout, even when braking in a stright line. So a pumping the brake and rolling in between approach was adopted...not the fast way around.
However, the car fron the exit of T1 all the way to the bustop was excellent, not problems putting power down in the rain and perfect gearing up through the esses. I was motoring by Corvettes and BMWs that I thought must be on slicks.

Given the braking issues, It was with quite a bit of surprise therefore that we found ourselfs on the front row after qualifying. :smilie_pokal: Pole was won by another FWD car, Steve Wheeler's Acura Intrgra.

Sunday, Race:
We awoke to bright blue sunshine. A beautiful day in the fingerlakes. Damn! :angry: I was sure that the FWD rain advantage was the only way to stay in the hunt. I would have to spend the day watching cars drive by and hoping nobody got impatient and booted me.

We had some bad wheel shake during the test day on one set of Kumhos so we took the 2 front over to get them balanced. Turns out one tire had developed some sort of internal defect, as it was obviously out of round. Our only option was to race on the new unscrubed Hoosiers and a set of smaller 205 Kumhos in the rear. (Yes not IT legal, but we had no choice).

So the green flag drops and I manage to get inside the Acura and draft a Porsche 911 up the hill for the first lap, in my mirrors I see lots of hungry ITS cars and I just start driving it for all it's worth... the thought is to push hard and hopefully we can stay in the top 10. On lap 2 or 3 Bob Driscoll's Autotechnic BMW motors by on the straight, I tuck in behind and follow him around for a couple laps.
http://www.bildon.com/pub/WGI_race2sm.jpg

Going into the bus stop and with heavy traffic in front I manage to sneak back past and spend the next few laps with a kidney grille in my mirrors.
http://www.bildon.com/pub/WGI_BMW.jpg

Since I was not driving in my mirrors (famous last words) I can't tell what happened behind me but after a few laps Chris Camadella's Porsche 944 was glued to my tail. The Corrado would pull away from T1 up through the esses and down the back straight but through the twisty sections the perfectly balanced 944 would catch up every lap. I was pretty sure Chris was just measuring my up for where he would make his move.
http://www.bildon.com/pub/WGI_123.jpg

At one point while rounding turn 10, the front end decided to go on vacation and the car just understeered off the track...A little full throttle farming and we were back on track and barely in the lead... this was very un-nerving as I was not sure what had just happened. (Post race revealed a less camber than was needed on the RF, but even so the new untested tires felt inconsistent. Heat? We had our Kumhos over 230* in the pits on Friday...perhaps I was cooking the Hoosiers in the front.) :unsure:

It was at this point that things started to get a bit weirder. 2 cars went off in T10 and got stuck in the sand bringing out a full course yellow and the pace car. The pace car picked up Dan Jones' BMW ruining his excellent run from 17th up through the field into 4th. I was with a small group of ITE cars that were still circling at full tilt despite the full course conditions. After the green was waved again we set off to weave our way through some slower traffic when things got ugly again in the heal of the boot. Mazdas and Porsche were spinning all over the track and I went down to 2nd gear and autocrossed my way between the mess with Chris's 944 directly in tow. The call came over the radio....2 laps left, "you have 2 laps left" :happy204:

OK so I continue to push the Corrado with it's tail happy brakes and very inconsistent tires around and was telling myself that it's OK if Chris gets by. This is already a MAJOR victory for this car.... entering T11 setting up for the penultimate lap it happened again...but this time no farming... I had glanced up to check on the location of the chasing 944 and when I looked back down I was about 2 feet from the apex..."no problem, I'm not at the limit".... turn, turn turn, why aren't you turning???? Lift... NEVER LIFT ! Bang! Game over. :mad1:

After a pretty well driven race where we managed to hold off a very competitive ITS field at one of the great racetracks on the schedule, I managed to throw it all away at the end by doing a "great" 4 wheel drift into the armco on the outside of turn 11. :bash_1_: The car is repairable but it will take quite a bit of work to get it back on track.

However. There is a silver lining...
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:

Until next next time...

RSTPerformance
07-24-2006, 02:31 PM
http://www.bildon.com/pub/WGI_start.jpg


We had some bad wheel shake during the test day on one set of Kumhos so we took the 2 front over to get them balanced. Turns out one tire had developed some sort of internal defect, as it was obviously out of round. Our only option was to race on the new unscrubed Hoosiers and a set of smaller 205 Kumhos in the rear. (Yes not IT legal, but we had no choice).

After a pretty well driven race where we managed to hold off a very competitive ITS field at one of the great racetracks on the schedule, I managed to throw it all away at the end by doing a "great" 4 wheel drift into the armco on the outside of turn 11. :bash_1_: The car is repairable but it will take quite a bit of work to get it back on track.

However. There is a silver lining...
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:

Until next next time...
[/b]


Sorry to hear about the damage, but very glad to see your sucess!!! Great job :)

Also, one quick question... what was illegal about the tires?

Raymond

itracer
07-24-2006, 02:32 PM
what was illegal about the tires?

Raymond
[/b]

You beat me to it. I had the same question....

Bildon
07-24-2006, 02:34 PM
Don't you have to run the same size tires on all 4 corners anymore?
edit: I just read the ITCS and no longer see that statement :P

RSTPerformance
07-24-2006, 02:38 PM
I thought you so, thats why I questioned it!!!

Great job guys!!!

Raymond

benspeed
07-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Congrats on the great run in the Corrado - shame about the contact with the armaco. That car looked great out front and I think the whole ITS field has taken notice of the car's potential.

Nice job. You get a trophy for effort :smilie_pokal:

JeffYoung
07-24-2006, 03:11 PM
That is awesome. I'm glad to see it, and glad to see a "new" car at the front of ITS. Gives all of us hope who are slaving away with cars that others don't see as competitive. I led for 4 laps at CMP in the TR8 earlier this year before the brakes gave out and it certainly made the two years of development all worth it.

Hope you get it back on track soon. ITS 2007 is looking very interesting.

Bill Miller
07-24-2006, 03:28 PM
Great job Bill, sorry to hear about the damage.

jcmotorsports
07-24-2006, 05:13 PM
Bill
Glad to hear you are OK. I wish I had gotten a chance to play with you guys, but starting last proved too much with the traffic. Hope you get the car back together soon.

Ron Earp
07-24-2006, 06:04 PM
Fantastic job and it is very nice to hear. Not many of those cars running around and it is cool to see something new upfront. The report would not have been nearly as fun if you replaced VW Corrado with BMW 325!

Hope you get her back on track soon!

Ron

ChrisCamadella
07-24-2006, 06:09 PM
Since I was not driving in my mirrors (famous last words) I can't tell what happened behind me but after a few laps Chris Camadella's Porsche 944 was glued to my tail. The Corrado would pull away from T1 up through the esses and down the back straight but through the twisty sections the perfectly balanced 944 would catch up every lap. I was pretty sure Chris was just measuring my up for where he would make his move.

[/b]

I was kinda figuring that coming down the hill into the boot was going to be a good spot :-).

I'm really sorry that you ended up the way you did - we were having a good race up until that point - close, close racing with good driving and no banging - that's what club racing is supposed to be about! I do admit that I certainly didn't have the edge up the straights, but I could tell that you were using up the tires pretty thoroughly towards the end of the race, both in braking and cornering, so I just stayed as close as I could, figuring to capitalize if you slipped up.

I thought it really stunk that the full-course yellow came out when we were side by side - I'm not exactly sure who was ahead at that point...

In any case, I do think that you're going to be quite competitive with that car in the future - I hope you get it back together soon!

Cheers,

msogren
07-24-2006, 10:06 PM
Nice job with the Vr6 .

We had terrible late race grip on Kumhos. Turns out they were too hot. The car would turn ok in the toe but not turn for the heel at all. We later found out that the optimal temps were with the outer two inches of tire about 15degrees cooler than the middle/inner. checked on the pit after turn ten hard and eleven hard.
My shop had 4or 5 cars on the Kumhos back in the day, The Volvos werent too bad but the Vw was not trust giving at all. MM

pfcs49
07-25-2006, 06:49 PM
Bill-still have that rust-free Corrado shel! Phil

Bildon
07-25-2006, 10:53 PM
Bill-still have that rust-free Corrado shel! Phil
[/b]

Thanks for the offer but the car is very fixable. Ugly, but really only cosmetic and easily replaceable parts.
Somebody buy Phils' shell! I need more VW company out there in ITS land. :D

Repairs have already started: (this is the definition of insanity) :blink:

Today:
Rubber and decals cleaned off
Door dents popped out
New fender installed
New tie rod, ball joint, CV shaft

Still need:
Bumper cover, bumper frame, rad support, plastic inner fender, left mirror, door handle, left headlight, grille...
Need a body shop to pull some of the inner fender back into shape to be really done right... Paint, decals, and we're racing.

The lap 1 through 9 leader, post race. :rolleyes:
http://www.bildon.com/pub/Corrado_crash2.jpg

One big dent to pop... lots of little scratches to paint.
http://www.bildon.com/pub/Corrado_crash3.jpg

Already looking better...
http://www.bildon.com/pub/Corrado_crash.jpg

dj10
07-30-2006, 06:39 PM
However. There is a silver lining...
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:
The VR6 is competitive in ITS :023:

Until next next time... [/b]



SCCA, hit this guy with a SIR before Beaver Run. ;)

Bildon
07-31-2006, 03:19 PM
Heh, who was catching me? YOU! Bimmer guy :P

My only sub 2:18 lap most likely the result of a nice tow off an ITE car. :eclipsee_steering:
I spent all day Friday testing and never broke 2:20. I guess all the infighting behind me kept anyone from mounting a really serious charge at me. It does help to qualify (rain) near the front.

Car is mechanically repaired, rolling, aligned...just needs a bumper and some paint.

Oh BTW, if anyone wants a Corrado shell, I know of 2 more for free outside Detroit.

gran racing
07-31-2006, 05:33 PM
I too think it is way cool to have a different car running up front. Wish I could have been there!

Bill, nothing more was damaged on the front driver's side of the car other than cosmetic stuff? Maybe the picture looks worse than it was.

Are we going to see you at Lime Rock sometime soon? Hope so!

Andy Bettencourt
07-31-2006, 05:57 PM
PLEASE bring it to LRP on the 18th and 19th of August!!! Friday-Saturday event with practice and then qualify. Saturday is a 20 lapper!

Bildon
07-31-2006, 08:19 PM
>>PLEASE bring it to LRP

Sorry, LRP is like 9 hours. I can almost be at Road Atlanta in 9 hours :D

>> nothing more was damaged on the front driver's side of the car other than cosmetic stuff?

scroll up. Replaced quite a bit on the left.

lateapex911
08-01-2006, 01:27 AM
So................that means you'll be at Road Atlanta in oh....say early November, riiight?

gran racing
08-01-2006, 08:05 AM
I still thought there would have been more internal damage. Glad there's not!

9 hours to Atlanta? Bill, I've heard it is particularly nice there in November.

dj10
08-01-2006, 12:08 PM
PLEASE bring it to LRP on the 18th and 19th of August!!! Friday-Saturday event with practice and then qualify. Saturday is a 20 lapper! [/b]



Why the hell would Bill go all the way to LRP when on the same day he's going to hopefully have a battle on his hands in his own back yard? :D



I'm sure Bill knows I was only stroking him about the SIR, but after last years problem him trying to get the Corrado sorted out he didn't deserve the armco @ WGI. I am very happy that all the effort is starting to pay off for him. He's a good competitor and good for this sport and I'm looking forward to Beaver Run.

Colin@KW_Suspensions
08-01-2006, 12:53 PM
Good job Bill!!! It is nice to see a VR6 doing well!! Now all we have to do is get some different suspension on the car :D


Colin

Eric Parham
08-02-2006, 04:39 PM
I watched the first half of your ITS race from the T1 grandstand with binoculars before I had to line up for my own race. I was VERY happy to see you driving the Corrado so competitively :-) I didn't realize you'd crashed until I spotted the unhappy car parked near victory circle (I took 2nd in ITC in the #23 Scirocco). I'm glad the damage wasn't too bad, but it looked to me like you really deserved to win it!

I think front tire loading is going to be the biggest issue with that car, no thanks to the huge front/rear weight difference, so I'm watching closely to see how you get past that hurdle. From my vantage point, I'd definitely say that you've done wonders so far :) It did look to me like the front wheels were turned slightly more than optimal when steady-state in T1 (and in your pic of T10, compare with Chris' 944), so I'd guess that the rear could still take a slightly greater share of the cornering work. Not much you can do about the braking heat to the tire, though...

I'm new to the Hoosiers this year (coming from Goodyears), but have noticed that they get a bit slippery as tire pressures increase much above 42 psi (both 225/45-13 and 205/50-15). 40 psi is the recommended hot pressure that I've heard. They may have a relatively narrow pressure sweet-spot. In my application, low pressure (e.g., low 30s) doesn't seem as bad as high pressure (anything over about 41). They don't feel as good at low pressure, but at least they still have grip. Perhaps any apparent problem with tire temperatures on your car might really be due to transient rises in pressures above whatever is really optimal.

I've still got 3 running GTI VR6s in the driveway (as well as 2 ITC Sciroccos). The pressure is mounting to cull the heard, and I'll probably have to clean up before winter. Thus, my interest is not purely academic. ;) Please continue to keep us up to date :eclipsee_steering:

Bildon
08-03-2006, 12:32 AM
Eric,
Pretty good analysis...perhaps better than my own and I was driving it :D

>>I think front tire loading is going to be the biggest issue with that car
Yah we had screaming hot temps on Friday. LF = 230+ in the pits! (Kumho V710)

>> no thanks to the huge front/rear weight difference
Our Friday setup had F/R balance at: 1749# / 989# with 3/4 tank.

>> and in your pic of T10, compare with Chris' 944
Well as it turns out we were running not enough camber in the RF, due to some setups we were trying from old Speedvision Cup Corrado setups my crew brought along. That hurt us in the left handers.
We didnt get enough testing Friday and didnt notice it until after the race Sunday. Sat told us nothing of course. The outside was definately rolling over with -2.3-2.4 deg. We ran 3.0 deg in the LF.

>> I'm new to the Hoosiers this year
Same here.

>> noticed that they get a bit slippery as tire pressures increase much above 42 psi
Yup and with no testing time on them we were running blind. I would not be surprised that the hot pressures were way too high. We got caught out with some tire issues and tossed the sticker Hoosiers on the front last minute.

>> I've still got 3 running GTI VR6s in the driveway
Bring 'em on. We have Porsches and Bimmers to eat!

^^^ See that kinda talk is going to get me crashed again :unsure:

>>> I still thought there would have been more internal damage. Glad there's not!
You're glad? :P Yah I thought the diff was broken until I realized the RIGHT side CV shaft had also snapped and was spinning INSIDE the outer boot! Sneeky. So after replacing both half shafts and a flange seal it has drive again. Tie rod, control arm and a bent wheel :mad1: ... the rest is "body work" and paint.

>> Now all we have to do is get some different suspension on the car
:023: