Just wondering.....

[BobsAuto]

With the gas prices going up and down like a yo-yo here in NH and having almost a 10cent difference from one end of the state to the other.....I decided to take an informal poll of IT drivers. Here are the two questions in the poll....

1) Where are you from, city and state?

2) What is the price for a gallon of unleaded regular gas in your area?

Thanks.

ps. Concord, NH area is $2.91 THIS week. Last week it was $2.99 because of the Nextel Cup event.

[pgipson]

In the Phoenix AZ area unleaded regular is $2.90 (+/-). The price was under 2.80 a couple of weeks ago but has been trending up most of the month. The (+/-) variance can be as much as 8 cents either way across the valley.

[ddewhurst]

Milwaukee, WI $3.30 five days ago, $3.15 today. It has been staying above $3.00 for several weeks. As I read/listen to news about the price of gas I say to myself why dose it REALLY floop back & forth from $3.00 to $3.30. Hell, I also say why is gas $3.00 per gallon when we read about gas company profit.

[Bill Miller]

Here in Central NJ, it ranges from a low of $2.95.9 to $3.29.9 for a gallon of 87 octane unleaded regular. I've seen diesel from the mid $2.70's to the mid $2.80s. Someone told me that $4/gallon is about a month away, due to the Israel/Lebanon/Iran thing.

[lateapex911]

I think it's in the $3.50 range here in Westport CT, but honestly I pay little attention to it. so it might be higher or lower by a quarter or so, but I just filled up and the bill was about $76 for 21 or so gallons, so it isn't under $3/gal.

Search the web, google "gas prices"...there's a site that tracks it all.

[tom_sprecher]

Hell, I also say why is gas $3.00 per gallon when we read about gas company profit.
[/b]

This is not directed at any one individual and is more to relay on what I have found out about the subject. I do not work for any oil company. In general, all companies add a percentage, called gross margin, to the price of the product they sell. Part of the gross margin is profit and everyone is in business to make a profit. So by reason when the price of the product goes up the resultant profit goes up.

What is interesting is that the averaged profit made by oil companies when compared to all other industries combined when expressed as a percentage is about the same at 5.5%. If you want to bitch at someone, look up what banks make. Its more like 18-20% and I assume you spend more in interest that you do in gas. Although a certain amount of bias may exist you can chek it out here (http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm)

Almost 60% of the price of gas is the cost of crude which is controlled in today's market by oil exporting countries ability or desire to increase or decrease supply. Oil is still very much a supply and demand market and commodities traders and their fear of reduced supply due to weather or geo-politcal unrest have kept the price of oil high even thought there is a slight surplus at this time. Taxes vary but generally account for 20% of the cost. The rest is refining and marketing at about 10% each. A simple explanation is offered here (http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm)

It's amazing how people complain about a companies excess profits but never open their pie holes when the same company suffers a loss. And if you want to see some real highs and lows look at big oil's record over the past 15 - 20 years. Remember the joke that went around in the 80's that went like this.

Q: What to you call a Texas oil man?

A: Hey, waiter!

Roughly one half of all oil is refined into gasoline. The US alone consumes 178 million gallons of gas a day. That's 63 billion gallons a year! If the oil companies decided to make zero world wide profit on the sale of gasoline it wouldn't even make a dent in the price of a gallon of gas.

Besides, do you want someone telling you how much money you should be able to make? Me neither.

[MIKEGTR]

1) Guaynabo, Puerto Rico

2)Regular Unleaded is at $2.69 this week
Premium Unleaded is at $3.01 this week


Mike

[Ron Earp]

People complain about gas prices a lot. I don't know why, we're still much cheaper than Europe by a long shot.

And, people still happliy pay $1.25 for a bottle of water at the convienent mart, or a $1.25 in a resturant for a glass of Coke. Or $4.00 for a microbrew beer at the bar. Gas is much cheaper than any of these items and a heck of a lot more useful!

Ron

[lateapex911]

Ron, I was going to make all those points, but....,;)

You're prices are a bit low...LOL. A bottle of, say aCorona, is over $6 bucks in New England/New York.

That water?? It's $1.50 for a 16 oz bottle....which is $12.00 a gallon...for plain old WATER! (Which, when sourced from an advanced bulk pressurized deivery systems costs less than 1/1000 of that price...LOL.

And the cost of owning and moving a car in the UK and Europe is MUCH more expensive. We've been buying gas a hugely artificail prices for years. Just look at the antiquated barges that the American companies continue to sell buckets of.

[jhooten]

I am so tired of the "they pay more in Europe" argument. The base price of the gas is the same in the US and over there. The additional cost over there is TAXES.

[lateapex911]

Be that as it may, the result is that they drive cars that are hugely less wasteful, and we drive oversized/over optioned/over consuming barges.

[Banzai240]

...and we drive oversized/over optioned/over consuming barges.
[/b]

God Bless America!! ;)

[ddewhurst]

***What is interesting is that the averaged profit made by oil companies when compared to all other industries combined when expressed as a percentage is about the same at 5.5%.***

Tom, ya reading comics again ?

Read some more comics & will they tell you why prices per gallon go up & down in the same week by 15 to 20 cents.

***Its more like 18-20% and I assume you spend more in interest that you do in gas.***

Wrong, that word assume gets a lot of people in trouble.

[gran racing]

I assume you spend more in interest that you do in gas. [/b]

Sure, but the oil company also didn&#39;t give me a loan so I can buy a house and a car - so I can buy gas <_< . And interest rates have been pretty freakn&#39; low over the past couple of years.


What is interesting is that the averaged profit made by oil companies when compared to all other industries combined when expressed as a percentage is about the same at 5.5%.[/b]

That&#39;s a crock! Yeah, I also feel bad for the Yankees who reported a loss over the past few years. Or like saying many people in non-profits aren&#39;t earning huge salaries. :rolleyes:

[Nickel Dime]

Norfolk, Va. - 2.99 for regular

At my last race I averaged 10.9 mpg on track while my tow vehicle gets 10 mpg. I found it odd that I get better fuel mileage while racing than I do just getting there. I guess there are some advantages to running ITC.

[JamesB]

I paid 2.94 for regular near the NY boarder, I paid 2.84 at flying J in VA last night, its 3.10 in laurel, MD. And yes the tow with an enclosed to the glen did hurt a little, but thanks to the rain, I was happy to have that enclosed with me.

[Bill Miller]

Be that as it may, the result is that they drive cars that are hugely less wasteful, and we drive oversized/over optioned/over consuming barges.
[/b]


The Europe / US thing really isn&#39;t valid. We can&#39;t get a lot of those highly fuel efficient cars over here, because most of the mfg&#39;s won&#39;t invest the money that it would take to get them DOT / NHTSA approved. Even more important than that though, is the public transportation system in Europe puts ours to shame!

[tom_sprecher]

***What is interesting is that the averaged profit made by oil companies when compared to all other industries combined when expressed as a percentage is about the same at 5.5%.***

Tom, ya reading comics again ?

Read some more comics & will they tell you why prices per gallon go up & down in the same week by 15 to 20 cents.

***Its more like 18-20% and I assume you spend more in interest that you do in gas.***

Wrong, that word assume gets a lot of people in trouble.
[/b]

Look, I don&#39;t make this stuff up that&#39;s why I provided links so you too could look into the facts. Believe what you want, because I honestly don&#39;t care, I do it more to help improve the often myopic view many people tend to have. I just prefer to back up my statements with at least one published reference and I tend not to reference the comics.

With reference to 15 to 20 cents on a $3 a gallon gas: that works out to about a 5-7% price fluctuation. To make it simple for those who don’t do math it’s like 5 cents on $1 a gallon gas. Relatively speaking, that ain&#39;t squat in today’s oil market and most reasonable people would agree that trivial amount does not require an explanation from anybody.

As I said in the preface of my last post my statements were not aimed at anyone in particular, but since I have been called to task here goes. The average house price is like $219k (http://www.fhfb.gov/GetFile.aspx?FileID=3399) in the US. Assuming 10% down and 6% interest on a 30 year loan the first year one would pay $12,481 in interest. At $3 a gallon that&#39;s 4,160 gallons of gas. If one gets only 15 mpg that&#39;s like 62,408 miles driven in a year.

That seems like a lot, but I don&#39;t know, maybe the trailer home is finally paid off and one drives an old WWII surplus army tank 25 miles round trip to work everyday. Maybe one does indeed pay more in a year for gas than interest on the house, but generally speaking that person would be the exception and not the rule.

As explained here for the third time my statements are not aimed at anyone in particular. If my use of pronouns confuses anyone I am sorry for them.



Sure, but the oil company also didn&#39;t give me a loan so I can buy a house and a car - so I can buy gas <_< . And interest rates have been pretty freakn&#39; low over the past couple of years.
That&#39;s a crock! Yeah, I also feel bad for the Yankees who reported a loss over the past few years. Or like saying many people in non-profits aren&#39;t earning huge salaries. :rolleyes:
[/b]

Banks don’t give you loans, they sell you loans just like oil companies sell you gas. My point is their profit margin (depending on how it&#39;s calculated) is almost 2-4 times greater than the oil companies, but I don’t hear anybody bitchin’ about it.

As far as the Yankees or non profits go I got nothin&#39;. I have a difficult time following logic that seeks to make a point by trying to connect unrelated topics without providing some reason as to why any of it would apply.

Don’t take my word for it. Read the following articles, learn something about the subject and you just may see the big picture.

Rference #1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html)

Reference #2 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/)

Reference #3 (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2005-11-09-oil-profits_x.htm)

Reference #4 (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6370)

After that you&#39;re on your own.

[Dave Ebersole]

I think oil co. profits have been more in the 10% range but that isn&#39;t out of line with other business profits / expectations.

By the way, 87 octane in the west-central PA area is going for $2.95. That was yesterday anyway.

[lateapex911]

The Europe / US thing really isn&#39;t valid. We can&#39;t get a lot of those highly fuel efficient cars over here, because most of the mfg&#39;s won&#39;t invest the money that it would take to get them DOT / NHTSA approved. Even more important than that though, is the public transportation system in Europe puts ours to shame!
[/b]

To a degree, that&#39;s true.

But, lets face it...we could have all the fuel efficient cars we wanted, if it made business sense for the companies to bring them. Toyota and Honda have no problem meeting regs AND hitting great economy marks.

Fact is, as a country, we are bigger, fatter lazier and like to drive big wasteful cars. We also like to whine about gas prices. But sell the daily driver Suburban? Not on your life! LOL It&#39;s "safer" they say. As in you can hit a Honda and not notice....I guess.

(At least may of us, as racers use the big trucks we own in roles that they were menat to do...haul stuff like cars and boats...and that&#39;s fine. But when a single Mommy "NEED"s a big 7 passenger SUV with 4 wheel drive and has one kid and lives in a non snowbelt, I gotta cry foul.)

[JeffYoung]

Jake is right on on this one. We have for years driven "fat" cars because gas prices allowed it when we could all do better. The one time this actually occurred was the 70s and early to mid 80s.

People go "wow" at the thought of a 2,000 lb car, but they were run of the mill back then. A Scirocco? 1800 lbs in original form. Fiestas, Omnis, Corolloas, Dastun B210s, all LIGHT, fuel efficient cars.

So it is not only the big SUVs (like the one I drive 2-3 times a week) that are killing us, it is the sad fact thatmost four door sedans are now porkers. The new Shelby Mustang weighs 4,000! how is that???

I&#39;ve just picked up a Lotus Exige with the little Toyota powerplant to commute in. Other than getting in and out, the 30 mph is REALLY nice and I had forgotten what it was like to drive a small, light car. Very different. Very cool. Makes the TR8 feel like a tank.

[JamesB]

the cars are getting bloated, with features, options and safety changes from DOT. My jetta is a 3200# porker, and the only reason it gets 27mpg average is due to the turbo on the 4cyl. But then I got 25 on my 8v rabbit with horrid gearing that would simply scream down the highway at 70k miles.

[lateapex911]

the cars are getting bloated, with features, options and safety changes from DOT. My jetta is a 3200# porker,
[/b]


Thats true, but even still, light cars are out there, but the masses want comfort and safety. The DOT is only partly responsible.

Dash airbags, knee airbags, side curtain airbags...some cars have a dozen airbags...And lots of cars have hundreds of pounds of "assist" motors...seats alone can weight over 50 pounds each. How about power trunk closers?? Or sliding doors that have multple motors? It all adds up. But nobody thinks about the cost of lugging around the 300 pounds of the 4 wheel drive system that never gets used, or any of that stuff when they buy the car. It&#39;s safer and more comfortable, so it&#39;s very desirable.

[tom_sprecher]

The comparison between the US and Europe has so many unknown variables that I can not make an educated conclusion due to lack of time to do the proper research. What would be interesting are the answers to the following questions.

If the price of gas were the same would they drive big inefficient SUV’s? Based on the comments many Europeans I have done business with over the past 17 years the answer is a resounding yes. But, at $7-8 a gallon for petrol and the huge tax penalties the government puts on buying a vehicle with over 2 litres displacement, they can’t afford it. There is also a tax break for diesel engines and for those who have ever taken a breath in a large city over there you know of what I’m talking about.

The public transit system is very good in Europe but how is it paid for? Do they subsidize it like we have to do here? If so, maybe the subsidies come for the tax paid on their gas. Are you in favor of $7-8 a gallon gas so the US can improve our public transportation system?

Have you ever bought food in Europe? From my experiences in Italy, Germany and England, it ain’t cheap and it ain’t easy to find. If Europeans had access to cheap food on every street corner like we do would they be fat and lazy too? Try buying any size T-Bone or Ribeye there and you’ll know what I’m talking about. Even if you could find one you could not afford it. When the Italian techs would come over here to service the equipment they would eat steak every night for dinner. I’m serious, every night. At that rate do you think they’d be fat and lazy before too long?

To an extent every country that imports oil pays about the same per barrel. After that it’s refining, transportation and marketing costs and taxes. Our gas prices have been cheap in the past because the cost of a barrel of oil was cheap. There’s nothing “artificial” about it. I think its human nature to take advantage of whatever is cheap and plentiful. Unfortunately, history shows its also human nature to do the same until nothing is left.

[Greg Amy]

I just finished a two-week driving tour of the eastern US. Following are the prices I paid for mid-grade fuel:

6/30/2006 Cromwell, CT 86421 $3.259
6/30/2006 Snow Shoe, PA $2.939
6/30/2006 Seville, OH $2.979
7/3/2006 Downtown Indy $3.059
7/3/2006 Downtown St Louis $3.059
7/5/2006 Branson, MO $2.899
7/5/2006 OKC $2.799
7/7/2006 Wichita Falls, TX $2.859
7/7/2006 Burnett, TX $2.939
7/14/2006 Fredericksburg, TX $2.819
7/14/2006 Houston $2.979
7/15/2006 Baton Rouge $2.869
7/15/2006 Meridian, MS $3.059
7/15/2006 Rising Fawn, GA $2.799
7/15/2006 Greeneville, TN $2.899
7/16/2006 Winchester, VA $2.899
7/16/2006 Montague, NJ $3.059
7/16/2006 Cromwell, CT $3.299

I laugh when folks start talking about small cars in Europe versus large cars here. We are our own worst enemy in so many complicated ways; there&#39;s no silver bullet. What do you want: to save money or to consume less fuel? Guess what, they&#39;re pretty much diametrically-opposed missions.

I&#39;d buy a second small economical vehicle to commute in if I was interested in using less fuel. However, by the time you figure in the cost of the car, sales tax, property tax, insurance, and registration costs, the car would have to get 125 mpg to make it pay off! I&#39;m sure it&#39;s the same for others. Make that your only vehicle, you say? What about highway driving or towing my race car? You ever drive one of those little piss-vehicles on the highway long distances?

Because of the numerous ways we use our vehicles here in this country, the most ECONOMICAL answer to our vehicular needs is to buy one big truck that does it all. If I were motivated to save money I&#39;d dump my Audi S4, sell the Ford V-10 van, sell the motorcycle, and buy a big four-door diesel pickup truck. I&#39;d use it was my daily commuter *and* my tow vehicle *and* my highway travel vehicle to go places. It&#39;s the only vehicle that meets all normal missions...

[JeffYoung]

Greg, true statement about $$ saved. There are a number of factors that do into "smaller" Euro cars. I guess my point is, why does a 4-door sedanhave to weigh 3500 lbs here? Jake and Tom answered it I think.

Tom, an interesting bit of history is what happened in post-war Europe vis a vis the US in regards to transport. Prior to the war, both countries principally used steam powered locomotives to move both freight and people.

After the war, Europe started from what in many ways was a clean slate, and yet rebuilt its train system. Some of it was Marshall Plan money, other portions were funded by taxation. The bottom line is that Europe threw its resources into public transit. And there is a reason for that -- it worked there, given the population density and distance between major cities. It is possible in Europe to build public transit accessible to all because all are close to it.

What did the US do? We certainly subsidized a form of transport as well -- the automobile and truck. We build an engineering marvel in less than 25 years -- the Eisenhower interstate highway system, all funded by US -- as in me and you. We also kept the price of gas down (some say artificially) by holding down the gas tax.

Why did we do this? Because, in the US IT WORKED. Just like public transit in Europe worked. It makes no sense to run a rail line from say Sumter SC to Kinston NC if only 3 people ride it a day. It does make sense to build a road (or system of roads) that people can use to choose to go to Kinston -- and then amortize the cost over the 100 year opeational life of the road.

It&#39;s no mystery why the US is car dependent and Europe (more at least) train dependent -- geography and population density dictated it, and the respective governments made rational (although I would say necessary) decisions based on those factors.

We simply could not have a mass transit system in the US that worked country wide. Hell, we can&#39;t even get it to work in our suburbanized mid-size cities. Europe didn&#39;t need an extensive huge interstate system due to the lack of distance, and had the density to support a train network (which is in some ways more efficient IN THAT ENVIRONMENT).

[lateapex911]

Jeff, you hit the nail on the head...population density and proximity.

But there&#39;s more. We Americans avoid mass transportation at every chance. I know plenty of people that drive into NYC instead of taking the train. They give me all sorts of BS reasons, but in the end, it costs them time and money...but they WANT to drive, and unlike say London, NYC hasn&#39;t decided to get serious about it.

If there was any common sense at all, NYC cabbies wouldn&#39;t choose Crown Vics as the cab of choice. And the city should prohibit them, based on the space consume alone.

Our mindsets are fundementally different. We look at the cars driven in Europe and think how silly they are, and they think the same of ours. I wonder about Toms SUV point?? I wonder if the guys he mentioned would really drive SUVs if they could. The roads are old, windy and much more narrow, parking is set up for smaller cars, heck, parking garages would be un navagable for many American barges.

When Europeans want to spend big on vehicles, it seems to me they do it in Audi A8s, BMW L series cars and the standard big Mercs and Rolls/ Bentlys. (Some of which get even worse milage than SUVS)

Does my driving two vehicles add up to fuel savings? Of course not! But then again, I don&#39;t have to drive a barge everyday, and the old Porsche was a cheap buy in that gets respecable mileage.

[tom_sprecher]

Jeff, population density and distance between centers is an excellent point that I think a lot of people including myself tend to forget when discussing mass transit. People tend to use what works best in their situation.

This in turn supports Greg’s post. A multi-tasker is the best bang for the buck and usually people use what works best in their situation. But as we all know, vehicles (cars, boats motorcycles, you name it) can stir up incredible passions that can not be ignored and distort all sense of logic and reality when making a buying decision. Usually, several vehicles of different types are required to satisfy this fate of man. Unfortunately, I am powerless against this dark power and presently own a Harley and an IT7. Oh, and an F250 four door diesel truck for everything else.

[tom_sprecher]

I&#39;ve been told that cabs and cop cars are Crown Vics because of the killer fleet pricing offered and they are the best all around choice if you need to transport a couple of businessmen and their luggage to the airport, or say 3-4 bar hoppers on a Friday night, or 6-8 crack heads (if you stack &#39;em right) down to lock-up. People tend to use what is best for their situation.

I don&#39;t wonder if the guys I worked with would drive SUV&#39;s if they could because they did. They were like kids in a candy store at the car rental place. Big four door sedans or SUV&#39;s is all they wanted and rented. One VP rented some Chrysler convertable (I&#39;d imagine smaller ragtops are available in Europe), came by during work hours just to see if I wanted to go for a ride. Look, I&#39;m stating personal experience here, not wondering what would seem to make sense. BTW, one of those big plastic clamshell suitcases full of nothing but new Levi&#39;s jeans and Timberland shoes would go back with them every trip. They must have been real popular across the pond, so to say.

Now would they buy the same vehicle in Europe if they could afford it? Probably. Would it be practicle like here? Probably not. They would have to avoid some areas that their vehicle would not fit in just like I have to do with my &#39;04 F250 Crew Cab 4x4. I took that SOB to South Beach one fine day while visiting my brother down there and you talk about tight. Not only in the tiny street lanes, but in the parking deck I swore to the attendant on entry that it would not fit, but I was wrong. That&#39;s why they have the white pipe hanging down prior to entry - you hit it there you&#39;ll get stuck inside.

Anyway, I do agree that americans for the most part feel the bigger and better, but that&#39;s us. We are fortunate that we can do it that way for whatever reason. I also agree with those who feel much of the rest of the world would do it that way too, if given they could. I mean, there&#39;s got to be a reason so many risk so much just to come here, right?

[BobsAuto]

Wow, didn&#39;t realize I&#39;d start such a discussion! I just find it interesting how the gas prices fluctuate-- and at times because of stupid things. For instance, gas in the Concord-Loudon, NH area fluctuated almost 25 cents the weekend of the Nextel Cup in the upward direction! Then, after the weekend was over, some stations kept at that price and others dropped their prices. In the western part of NH, gas is generally a dime cheaper that here in the central or eastern part of the state. Go figure. Up here, people are screaming for smaller cars. You wouldn&#39;t believe how fast you can sell a car you buy for $100 and make a profit. My problem is having that extra $100 to play with.....but, people will buy them. Motorcycles are quick sellers as well. I&#39;m looking to downsize my 8 cyl Chevy plow truck to a smaller truck for my plow fleet. I already have a small Dodge plow truck and love it. I don&#39;t want to even think of using the bigger one to plow this winter.

Interesting about the housing prices. NH has one of the highest costs of housing in the country and our income level is not keeping up with the rise in housing costs. People are for the most part house poor up here, whether they rent or own. If you are lucky enough to get into a good deal, you have to hold on to it because you can&#39;t afford to move on for the most part.

Thanks for all the info. I&#39;ve got so much to read now and to think about.

BTW, when I had my first car I could fill the gas tank for $5.00. When my boys were born, roughly $15.00 would fill the tank. Times have changed.

[Chris Wire]

All this bitching about the oil companies is missing the mark entirely. And an earlier reference to executive salaries doesn&#39;t fly either. Do you think the execs made less money when the price was $2 per gal? Oil companies are publicly traded, so if the share-holders sign off on salaries/bonuses, who are we to bitch?

The simple truth is that the government makes far more money off every gallon of gas than oil companies do.

And if you want some other targets for your angst, how about:

Market speculators/traders - those trading in oil futures can whip up a pricing frenzy any time they want to. And every time there is the least little bit of unrest in the world, guess what they do? They bid up the price.

Tin-pot dictators and despots - Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Amadinejad would just love to drive the price of a barrel of oil to over $100 per. Watch the price of crude every time "Madman Mahmoud" opens his mouth about wiping Israel off the face of the earth, or spouting off about brandishing nuclear weapons. And Hugo runs a state-owned oil company. He can do whatever he wants; he has no share-holders to please.

Environmentalist nutjobs - who won&#39;t let us drill for our own oil anywhere because we might disturb the mating habits of a gnat, who vehemently oppose any mention of new nuclear powerplants, who have thrust down the gov&#39;t&#39;s throat all these years for the need to have all kinds of "boutique" fuel blends (over 50 nationwide) for every little region of the country when 5 or 6 would suffice, who have made it impossible to build any new oil refineries in the last 30 years so we are constantly running at max capacity.

Hey, I&#39;ll take the oil companies and their 6% profit margins any day. Can any of you help out with any of these other wackos?

[cherokee]

The only thing I would add to this is how our diesel is so dirty and why we will not clean it up. This is what makes me go WHAT? IMO this is one area where the goverment should set a mandate and say that our diesel move down a bit on the sulfur content to be inline with what the rest of the world is doing.

Look up some info on the difference between US and over seas diesel and why ours is so dirty. I guess some car mfgs. are saying bye bye to the diesel market in the US.

[gran racing]

Today is a very sad day for Exxon. In the second quarter, they reported a $10,000,000,000 in profit for that quarter alone. Not a bad quarter. :)

Exxon article (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CNBC/Dispatch/060727markets.aspx)

[ddewhurst]

***they reported a $10,000,000,000 in profit for that quarter alone. Not a bad quarter.***

Ya, Ya, Ya, sure & per some on this site beleive they do that kind of proffit at a 5% rate. :wacko:

I heard something on the national news last night about their proffit per minute & I still have not stoped crying.

[tom_sprecher]

Quoted from gran racing&#39;s link.

"Exxon reported a profit of $10.36 billion for the second three months of the year... but the company&#39;s quarterly revenues, up to $99 billion from $88.6 billion in the same quarter a year ago, fell short of the consensus estimate of more than $111 billion."

99B / 10.3B = 10.4%. My mistake, last quarter&#39;s profit was 10.4%, not 5.5%, that must be a multi-year average. Still, 10.4% is well within the acceptable profit margin of most US corporations.

I read yesterday that Honda made a 30% profit last quarter. That&#39;s almost three times what Exxon made. I&#39;m way past crying, I&#39;m thinking suicide. :rolleyes:

Let me translate one thing I&#39;ve learned during the 17 years I have been investing in the stock market: If ya go an buy what ya love an what ya hate, it&#39;ll make ya rich, don&#39;t ya know.. And ya, sure, ya can be quoting me on that one too, eh. I learned the language working for a company HQ&#39;d in Menomonee Falls.

In other words, smart money would own XOM (ticker symbol for ExxonMobile) rather than bitch about it. Unfortunately, its probably too late now. :(

[tdw6974]

Here in Northeast (Sayre PA about 40 minutes east of the Glen) Reg 2.99 Mid 3.11 premium 3.22 Diesel NOW 3.18 :bash_1_: . Exxon Profits 10B and the Idiots in Washington say there is no price :mad1: gouging :mad1: . all driven by supply and demand WEll I&#39;m not an accountant but The Demand is there (right or wrong) if there where no SUPPLY there would be no product to sell to generate the 10 BILLION unless some one paid 10 Billion for the last gallon left. TW

[tom_sprecher]

Another interesting link.

All About Oil (http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html)

[lateapex911]

Think of it another way...if someone came up to you and said, give me $10 and I&#39;ll probably give you back $11 somewhere down the road, but there&#39;s no guarantee"....would you do it???

Because that&#39;s the deal...they spend 10, they get back 11...hopefully. If hurricanes don&#39;t wipe out the refineries, or tankers don&#39;t sink...and so on.

yea, 10B DOES sound like a ton of extra money, but we don&#39;t HAVE to buy as much gas as we do, right??

Besides, when it comes to greed, it&#39;s tough to compete with the Enron (etc) guys, who really didn&#39;t provide anything, but tried to keep alot!

[ddewhurst]

***I learned the language working for a company HQ&#39;d in Menomonee Falls.***

& that boy with an ego got just what he deserved. Not nearly as Strong as he thought he was.

[tom_sprecher]

***I learned the language working for a company HQ&#39;d in Menomonee Falls.***

& that boy with an ego got just what he deserved. Not nearly as Strong as he thought he was.
[/b]

???? I don&#39;t follow. What boy? Someone local?

[ddewhurst]

***???? I don&#39;t follow. What boy? Someone local?***

It was national news. I presumed you were tied in with Strong Investments head quartered in Menomonee Falls, WI. Richard Strong the founder screwed all the ethics involved with investments, can&#39;t play in the game any longer, was FORCED to sell his investment company (Wells Fargo now IIRC) & he payed several million dollars in fines for something like a $600,000 profit. He sure beat the system.

[BobsAuto]

Got involved in a conversation with a young man who is definately not a racing knowledgable person but likes to think he has ideas for the future and it was amazing how he thought that racing would go completely gas free within 10 years given the technology of electronics and hybrids and electric motors and stuff. I really was stunned at the comment and tried to imagine a GT1, IT, or even a Nextel Cup race with the whine of electric motors. How boring is that???? :o :huh: :rolleyes: :015: Oh, did I miss the race????

[tom_sprecher]

I see. I have heard of Strong Funds but I work for a company that manufactures industrial equipment.

[instigator]

Hey Tom could you look this up for me since the increase in fuel prices have trippled can you show were the price of crude oil has done the same? Could you show me were the cost of refinig this product has done the same as well. If any one else can show me were these number exist I have no complant ,but right now I can not find any of these numbers. If in the past profits were sufficant for these companys why do they all choose to raise prices so high now. As for demand it has a constant since the early 1990&#39;s. Our problem falls on polictical powers in office at this time that give these companies the abilty to get away with price guaging. Remember every penny increase is 1.2 billon dollars out of our economy and into the goverment pocket in revenew collection to help pay for there, "our", expenses. I think we can all say who or why the prices of gas is so high after a little reasearch is done.

[lateapex911]

..... since the increase in fuel prices have trippled....... [/b]

Tripled?? As from the last point of stability? I was paying $2.20, now I&#39;m paying about $3.20. Most places are about $3. When was the last time we paid $1??

Long time ago, different conditions.

[Chris Wire]

Got involved in a conversation with a young man who is definately not a racing knowledgable person but likes to think he has ideas for the future and it was amazing how he thought that racing would go completely gas free within 10 years given the technology of electronics and hybrids and electric motors and stuff. I really was stunned at the comment and tried to imagine a GT1, IT, or even a Nextel Cup race with the whine of electric motors. How boring is that???? :o :huh: :rolleyes: :015: Oh, did I miss the race????
[/b]

Interesting you should mention that. Max Mosely has made comments recently that F1 should be leading the way in "green" technology, not just racing technology.

One of the examples given was to make use of the tremendous braking forces generated in F1 to "charge" and electrical system that could then be used by the driver as a "power-to-pass" button, similar to what is used in Champ Car.

I think from the outside that the idea has merit, in part because anything that increases the potential for on-track passing in F1 deserves a look, and also because you don&#39;t have to mess with the glorious sound of a 19,000 rpm, screaming engine to do it.

Now as to whether or not a "gas-free" series would fly or not, I don&#39;t know but I doubt it.

[Chris Wire]

Hey Tom could you look this up for me since the increase in fuel prices have trippled can you show were the price of crude oil has done the same? Could you show me were the cost of refinig this product has done the same as well. If any one else can show me were these number exist I have no complant ,but right now I can not find any of these numbers. If in the past profits were sufficant for these companys why do they all choose to raise prices so high now. As for demand it has a constant since the early 1990&#39;s. Our problem falls on polictical powers in office at this time that give these companies the abilty to get away with price guaging. Remember every penny increase is 1.2 billon dollars out of our economy and into the goverment pocket in revenew collection to help pay for there, "our", expenses. I think we can all say who or why the prices of gas is so high after a little reasearch is done.
[/b]

instigator,

You seem to want to assign the blame for rising gas prices solely to the gas companies, and to a lesser degree the federal government. On the second part I will somewhat agree, but probably not for the reasons you would expect.

As with any company designed to make a profit, especially a publicly traded one, when costs of raw materials go up, the price of the final product must go up accordingly, if the company is going to continue to make a profit for its owner/shareholders. Two things have already been shown: a) that the percentage of profit for "Big Oil" is well within and likely below that of most major corporations; and B) government makes far more per gallon of gas than than Big Oil.

As I mentioned earlier, there are market forces at work that you either don&#39;t want to acknowledge, or don&#39;t believe they are factors. First, OPEC is a cartel, plain and simple. They would be illegal if they operated in this country, as they price fix between member states, and raise and lower production levels on a whim to achieve their goals. If American companies colluded together in the same fashion they would be in violation of anti-trust laws, something that OPEC nations only laugh at.

Second, plain old capitalism operates by the law of supply and demand. Ten years ago we did not have to deal with increased demand from exploding development in China and India. As these countries gear up their economies and consume more oil, that leaves the rest of us fighting just to keep our access to the supply we need for ours. Demand goes up, supply gets tighter, and prices go up accordingly. Throw in a couple of psycho heads of state, like Hugo Socialist Chavez, Mahmoud Amadinejad Hitler, and Kim Jong Il Tempered, and there is far more instability world-wide than there used to be. One wacko world leader is all those who speculate in oil futures needs to bid up the price of crude. We are dealing with three.

Thirdly, you commented that oil demand has been a constant since the 1990s. As I just showed you that is false. Even in this country, you have to agree that the sheer number of cars on the road is always increasing, thus domestic demand for gasoline cannot remain the same. Now we haven&#39;t built a new oil refinery in over 30 years. If demand is up, yet our capacity to refine oil is constant, that means that our existing refineries are always running at max capacity. Now throw in a couple of ill-timed, badly located hurricanes, which damaged refineries all along the Gulf Coast, now there is a disruption in supply. Remember, supply goes down, price goes up. We are still not back to pre-Katrina refining capacity.

Thirdly and-a-half, all of the "boutique" fuels that government says we must have at various times during the year, in varying locations cause disruption in supply, since the refineries have to dump what&#39;s left of the current inventory, and retool for the season&#39;s next fuel. I ask, "Do we really need 50+ types of fuel to supply America&#39;s motoring public?". I seriously doubt it. Thank your local environmentalist loonie for that one.

Fourth, we are buying way more oil for our economy than we should be. As a world superpower, we should be a clear leader in research, location, and retrieval of oil. We as a country are as oil rich as any country on earth, I believe. ANWAR in Alaska, the Gulf Coast, and exploration in the Northwest are all potentially huge quantities of oil just waiting to be cultivated. Instead, the "greenies" have our politicians so scared to vote to allow new drilling, for fear that they will be labeled an "enemy of the environment". And don&#39;t even bother to mention nuclear power. That sends the envirowackos off the charts!

The final fallacy is that it&#39;s the job of the United States government to regulate gas prices. I&#39;m sorry to say this, but the government&#39;s only job is to protect you, me and the Constitution. American&#39;s have become far too reliant on our government to regulate everything, from gas prices, to healthcare, college tuition and more. If there was a better understanding in this country of the basics of capitalism, and the realities of what our government is really supposed to do for us, we would be far better off than we are now.

Lastly, I would like to ask a question. Do you know any other industry that is forced to reinvest millions in profits to research alternative technologies that, once perfected, could put that industry out of business?

[tom_sprecher]

Chris,

I don&#39;t know what you do for a living but you deserve an A+ on your last post. It&#39;s nice to see others who carefully reseach a subject and then reflect on the same by submitting factual and concise posts. Well done.


instigator,

I have provided enough links to information on this subject. In addition, I feel that what some people choose to believe can not be changed, irregardless of the overwelming evidence provided, and it is a waste of my time to try. Do your homework and then you can be the judge.

[Chris Wire]

Chris,

I don&#39;t know what you do for a living but you deserve an A+ on your last post. It&#39;s nice to see others who carefully reseach a subject and then reflect on the same by submitting factual and concise posts. Well done.
[/b]

Thanks, Tom. My fingers are tired, but I think it was worth it.

[instigator]

You made several good pionts. I have to say that all I am basing my point is that of when crude prices were for that of a $1 pergallon. Those prices for abarrel of crude have not doubled yet. I realize that every thing has gone up in price but very clearly price guaging is being allowed.Another administration tried this in the late 80&#39;s and was quickly removed and fuel prices were brought back under control. That same adminstration came back into power and guess what fuel goes back up and keeps on going up until that admistration is removed from power.

Yes ther are more cars on the road and consumption is up ,but cost in manufacturing the product has not. Cost of product is the onlything that has changed. So with that said I understand that a $1 per gallon can not happen ,but my numbers say $1.82 is what the cost should be and if you do it your way $2.10 is what it should be at the profit rate being made during the $1 pergallon eara. Icanot find a reason for $3 per gallon
now the oil companys have lost a big tax break. So ther big profits now mean more tax revenew. Win ,Win for both parties involved, and a lose lose status for the economy and stander of living america had enjoyed and by the way has any body refigured what poverty level income is justified at sacry numbers most public saftey workers now fallen in that income braket.


Jut playing deveils advocate and making another piont to look at and making chat.


Kurt Jackson

[Chris Wire]

You made several good pionts. I have to say that all I am basing my point is that of when crude prices were for that of a $1 pergallon. Those prices for abarrel of crude have not doubled yet. I realize that every thing has gone up in price but very clearly price guaging is being allowed.Another administration tried this in the late 80&#39;s and was quickly removed and fuel prices were brought back under control. That same adminstration came back into power and guess what fuel goes back up and keeps on going up until that admistration is removed from power.

Yes ther are more cars on the road and consumption is up ,but cost in manufacturing the product has not. Cost of product is the onlything that has changed. So with that said I understand that a $1 per gallon can not happen ,but my numbers say $1.82 is what the cost should be and if you do it your way $2.10 is what it should be at the profit rate being made during the $1 pergallon eara. Icanot find a reason for $3 per gallon
now the oil companys have lost a big tax break. So ther big profits now mean more tax revenew. Win ,Win for both parties involved, and a lose lose status for the economy and stander of living america had enjoyed and by the way has any body refigured what poverty level income is justified at sacry numbers most public saftey workers now fallen in that income braket.
Jut playing deveils advocate and making another piont to look at and making chat.
Kurt Jackson
[/b]

Kurt,

You lost me there, but here is some more info to ponder.

Oil info (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/crude1.html)

Basically, as late as Jan &#39;98 light crude was trading at $15.89 / bbl. It had more than doubled to $36 / bbl before President Bush was even elected in Nov. &#39;00. And shortly after he took office it was back to trading below $24 / bbl. How much were you paying for regular unleaded in 1998? Compare that to the current price of over $72 / bbl. That is nearly a 400% increase in 8 years. By all rights, that same 400% increase applied to the retail price of gas would put it well over $4 per gallon.

I don&#39;t think you really believe yourself when you say that "...the cost of product is the only thing that has changed.", and " cost in manufacturing the product has not". How is it that in the last ten years, no costs to the oil companies have risen except the price of crude oil? Don&#39;t you think that their labor costs have gone up? How about the costs of exploration? The costs of securing drilling rights? The costs of importing, refining, and transporting more and more foreign-sourced oil? The costs of maintaining equipment and increasing their level of technology? How about the costs of reinvesting in research and development of alternative fuel technologies? Can you justify somehow that none of their normal costs of doing business, like overhead, healthcare, insurance, and salaries have risen in 10 years? If so, then I want to live in their vacuum!

Well after further searching, I did find some data for premium unleaded (less taxes) from prior to 1998 until present.

Gas price history (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html)

If I knew how, I would love to overlay the two charts here to better visualize the effect of crude prices on the final retail product. BTW, if you want to feel better, just take a look at what all of Europe is paying compared to what we pay ($7.28 per in the Netherlands. Whew!)

There is plenty of great information on this site. Much too much to disseminate here, but check it out for yourselves.

More oil info than you can stand! (http://eia.doe.gov)

[ddewhurst]

***How about the costs of exploration?***

Chris, is this the cost point where the political contributions folw to ? ;)

Electric race cars............. Hmmmm, have any of you attended a race live when the Indy turbine cars raced. swisssssh, no hearing loss from the car engine noise. Sorry for the tangent, now back to the cost of gas.

[Chris Wire]

***How about the costs of exploration?***

Chris, is this the cost point where the political contributions folw to ? ;)

Electric race cars............. Hmmmm, have any of you attended a race live when the Indy turbine cars raced. swisssssh, no hearing loss from the car engine noise. Sorry for the tangent, now back to the cost of gas.
[/b]

The political part of this problem could be an entire thread unto itself.

Suffice it to say, oil companies are going to support politicians who support them. Environmentalists are going to support politicians who help to further their cause. It&#39;s just the way the system works.

Don&#39;t be surprised to find out that oil companies will contribute to candidates on both sides of the isle.

My only problem with the political side of it is with disingenuous people who complain about our dependence on foreign oil and our energy independence, and then turn around and obstruct every attempt we make to try to cure the problem.

[cherokee]

Not one of the indy races but I did go to unlimited hydroplane races before they became woosh boats, you can&#39;t beat the sound of a big ole piston engine....it is just magic.



The political part of this problem could be an entire thread unto itself.

Suffice it to say, oil companies are going to support politicians who support them. Environmentalists are going to support politicians who help to further their cause. It&#39;s just the way the system works.

Don&#39;t be surprised to find out that oil companies will contribute to candidates on both sides of the isle.

My only problem with the political side of it is with disingenuous people who complain about our dependence on foreign oil and our energy independence, and then turn around and obstruct every attempt we make to try to cure the problem.
[/b]

I bolded this part as it is the real problem here. When things get political is when things get messy and nothing gets done. We could stop using over seas oil if we could drill some holes. We can do it, we can do it without making the landscape a wasteland. If you want to gripe about gas prices look at the folks against the US drilling for more oil here at home.

[AntonioGG]

We could stop using over seas oil if we could drill some holes. We can do it, we can do it without making the landscape a wasteland. If you want to gripe about gas prices look at the folks against the US drilling for more oil here at home.
[/b]

We could also achieve that goal by other means: conservation, efficiency, alternative fuel. Look at Brazil. They produce enough ethanol to not need to import any oil. In fact they export ethanol. We&#39;d get Brazilian ethanol cheap if there weren&#39;t huge tariffs against it. Can you imagine if we didn&#39;t need any oil from some of these OPEC countries? Then you might see real foreign policy instead of dancing around.

Continuing exploration in wildlife refuges and other areas is a short term solution. You can&#39;t blame people for not wanting to allow drilling in certain areas right? It can be done without turning a landscape into a wasteland...as long as nobody drinks while piloting their boat.

:dead_horse:
:birra:

I think the internal combustion engine is far from going extinct. I&#39;d venture to say that it won&#39;t happen in any of our lifetimes. The difference is what will go into the engines, the efficiency of the whole vehicle (weight, space, etc.). I don&#39;t have a problem with trucks that are really used (towing, farmers, hauling, etc.)...I have a problem when they&#39;re not used! I like Greg Amy&#39;s post on his economic analysis as far a his choice of what to drive and the real costs to get there. I did the same thing. I refuse to drive a big truck every day because I don&#39;t like it...it&#39;s not comfortable or fun for me not to mention $60 fill-ups a week vs. $30 every two weeks. I owned a truck and a daily driver for a few years but that is not economical either. I ended up paying someone to haul my car on their two car trailer...worked economically for me and now I don&#39;t even have to worry about that aspect of a race weekend! Right now I feel terrible for those whose living depends on driving a truck...they don&#39;t have a choice but soccer moms do.

OK electric stuff...any of you do RC stuff in a previous life or maybe still do it? Remember when 1200mAh NiCads were the hot shstuff? 4 minute mains or maybe longer if you geared it right. I was just reading an article on new batteries and new brushless motors. Li-poly 14.8V batteries with peak current capabilities of 75A, combined with brushless motors will give you 17-19min of run time in an offroad race! 0-50mph (real not scale) in about 3 seconds. Can you say max torque at zero RPM? Keep your mind open...it doesn&#39;t all have to be bad you know? Look at the new hybrid GS450h from Lexus. I think soon you&#39;ll see sports cars with improved performance when you need it (Ford diesel/electric hybrid sports compact car), and improved mileage when you don&#39;t. I guess I&#39;m in the tech business and I&#39;m an optimist. I prefer to dream about a scaled-up version of an RC car with those performance numbers rather than complain about the situation. As far as the sound...my idea is to put speakers on the outside of the car where the tailpipes would go...and I&#39;d pipe in some Ferrari Flat-12 sounds from a 312PB. heheheh

OK now to answer the orginal post...around here (Austin, TX) I get it for ~$2.85 regular and $3.05 premium. It&#39;s cheaper if you go to the lower income side of town which is interesting in and of itself (ever priced diesel on the highway (big trucks) vs. diesel on a nice area (diesel Benzes and Audis)?)

I&#39;ll add one more bit...any of you driven from Hallet back to your state and compared the fuel prices? It&#39;s much cheaper in OK than anywhere in Texas. I asked around and was told the reason is they have many small independent refineries in Oklahoma. Lower tranport costs, no big business overhead, no stock holders to share profits with.

[BobsAuto]

Well, since I have started this thread, gas rose, it fell, and now, in Loudon, it has hit it&#39;s all time high. The Beanstalk Store is at $3.14 for regular, Z-1 (which was one of the cheaper places) has hit $3.05. You can still get gas in some places in Concord for $2.96. I have not gone north this week to see what Speedway and the Shell station are but I would guess over $2.96.
C&#39;est la vie. Just wish I could get rid of my gas guzzler so I could fix my little truck..... :(

[BobsAuto]

It&#39;s been a while since anyone posted here....but thought that I&#39;d let you all know that suddenly, after the RAL weekend, most gas prices dropped an average of $.10 a gallon up here in Loudon with the Beanstalk going down from $2.89 to $2.75 ($.14!!!!!). That in itself is amazing as they are consistently the highest in Loudon and for two days were the lowest. Anyone else seeing a downward trend?

[RacerBill]

Sunoco station just off I71 in Grove City (south of Columbus, OH) is at $2.46. With a Sunoco card, that&#39;s $2.44!

Most other stations in the area are at $2.54

Diesel is still up around $3.00

[BobsAuto]

$2.46??????Holy .........well you know....Too bad we couldn&#39;t ALL have it that cheap. I thought WE were doing good.

[Chris Wire]

$2.46??????Holy .........well you know....Too bad we couldn&#39;t ALL have it that cheap. I thought WE were doing good.
[/b]

Don&#39;t worry, you may yet get there. This from cnnmoney.com.

Industry analyst sees prices between $2 and $2.50 by Thanksgiving.
August 30 2006: 6:26 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The recent drop in prices at the pump could pick up steam, driving gasoline sharply lower in coming months.

"I&#39;d say $2 to $2.50," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service. "Once you get past Sept. 15, it&#39;s really a downhill game."

Kloza said so far the average cost of a gallon of gas peaked this year at $3.036 on Aug. 10 and has come down largely thanks to diminishing hurricane fears.

"There&#39;s just nothing happening in the tropics, and the market had priced in all sorts of calamities," he said.

The motorist organization AAA reported a nationwide average of $2.82 Tuesday, the lowest since April 20. Online gasoline price survey site Gasbuddy.com shows Wednesday&#39;s national average at $2.80.

Gee, and I thought it was all George Bush&#39;s fault! ;) Maybe Karl Rove is conspiring to lower the gas prices before the November elections......

Yeah, that&#39;s the ticket!

[RacerBill]

UPDATE!

Crew chief reported that at least two gas stations - Citco and Sunoco - have gas this morning at $2.39 :happy204: :happy204: :happy204:

[RacerBill]

Interesting! One thing I read a while ago was that the gas stations priced gas based not on what the gas in the ground cost, but at what they expected to have to pay to replace it when the tanks emptied. So, if a tank cost $2.75 a gallon and the outlook said prices were going up, they charged $2.80. Using the same model, last week they paid $2.75 a gallon for what&#39;s in the ground and they are selling it for less than $2.50.
Serves them right! (whoever them may be).

Don&#39;t get me wrong, I am overjoyed at the latest prices. Even after I filled up (40 gal tank) the tow vehicle (Mr. Gas Sucker) that gets 10 MPG when prices dropped to $2.75 (how could it ever get lower than that!!!!).

In the immortal words of Pogo "We have met the enemy, and he is us!!!!" I just like to use that quote every once in a while!

[tom_sprecher]

When I worked at a gas station (full serve, remember that?) the manager based his price on the price of the competition.

[RacerBill]

Tom: Full Service!!!!!! Don&#39;t get me started! When I was in the Army, I took a 3 week course in auto mechanics that was taught at a local service station in Pemberton, NJ (as I remember). The service station owner there taught his employees to RUN ( not walk) out to the pump to greet the customer, and how to wipe off the blade of the squeege with a clean rag after each stroke when cleaning the windows!

:cavallo:

[lateapex911]

You want full serve? Stop in Jersey where it&#39;s the law. I treat all full serve stations like plague harboring disease centers....

Best way to ding my car I know.

[charrbq]

I know I&#39;m showing my age, but what the heck. I can remember when the stations in my home town used to have gas wars. The price would go down to 25-28 cents per gallon. When I was in college, a fraternity brother of mine told me that if gas got up to 44 cents, he was going to sell his car and buy a motor cycle.

If a local station dropped the price to $2.39 down here, they would be closed in an hour due to the traffic rush!

It&#39;s good that I still have my memory, because that&#39;s as close as I&#39;m ever going to see gas at those prices again.

[tom_sprecher]

I was in NJ about this time last year. When I got out of my car to fill up a guy came up to me asking for my credit card. I told him no way and he better back off. Then he asked me if I was from out of state and explained the NJ law. I felt like a dumb ass.

There have not been any full service stations around here for decades. What did you mean about dinging your car?

[lateapex911]

Seems like every other time I get the car filled by a "pro"...(and I actually managed a station for $ in college, so I can say this, LOL) I have a new scuff or nick or mark near the fill from the nozzle...

(I can damage my own car quite nicely thanks, I really don&#39;t need help in THAT department! ;) )

[Chris Wire]

You want full serve? Stop in Jersey where it&#39;s the law. [/b]


What?!?!?! :119:

Is this a union thing or what?

[Dave Burchfield]

Went to $2.32 today in the Northern &#39;burbs of Cincinnati. On the news this evening, they were saying that we should expect it to be $1.99 by Thanksgiving, just in time for me to gas up the 8 mpg guzzler and make my annual 1250 mile hiatus. I wish me a merry Christmas.........

[Z3_GoCar]

What?!?!?! :119:

Is this a union thing or what?
[/b]

I highly doubt it as it&#39;s also the law in Oregon too. I think it&#39;s to protect a very vulnerable entry level job base. I also doubt that gas will ever be much below $3.00/ out here. There used to be a 10-20 cent difference between the Eastern Serria and the San Jauqine valley, now it pretty much $3.20/ everywhere. Except on our last trip North we did notice lower prices around Sacramento and the Bay Area, which used to be higher than down here. It&#39;s like the high gas prices are following me or something :wacko:

[Greg Amy]

What?!?!?! :119:

Is this a union thing or what?
[/b]

Nope. New Jersey banned self-service way back in 1949. At the time, legislators felt it was "too dangerous to have untrained people dispensing such a flammable liquid"...

There have been recent efforts to dispense (har-de-har) with the ban, claiming it would reduce retail fuel prices, but the idea has opposition. Some say self-service gasoline would inconvenience the elderly and ill and force people into inclement weather; gasoline retailers like the ban on self-service because their costs of insurance are significantly lower. The latter is a very good point, as these reduced insurance costs are reflected in the retail prices: despite the fact that retailers have to pay people (young adults, mostly) to pump the gasoline, New Jersey continues to offer the lowest retail fuel prices in the region. Anyone that lives near Jersey will typically wait until they&#39;re in the state to buy gasoline (I certainly do).

I&#39;m perfectly content letting them pump the gas, just as long as the prices stay lower then everywhere nearby... - GA

[BobsAuto]

There have been recent efforts to dispense (har-de-har) with the ban, claiming it would reduce retail fuel prices, but the idea has opposition. Some say self-service gasoline would inconvenience the elderly and ill and force people into inclement weather;


I can&#39;t remember when I last saw a full serve station up here in NH, but my Mom, when she was alive and still driving, used to drive up to the pumps at a self serve and honk the horn like crazy til someone came out to help her. God rest her soul, she actually got known at one station and I was with her one day when she did this and went to jump out when pump the gas when someone came out and said, "Hello Dolores, what&#39;ll it be?" I was both shocked and embarrased at first. But it worked! :happy204

[pgipson]

I know I&#39;m showing my age, but what the heck. I can remember when the stations in my home town used to have gas wars. The price would go down to 25-28 cents per gallon[/b]

Growing up I spent part of my teen years in the New Orleans area. At the time there were no taxes on gasoline in Louisiana and the going rate at the local station (where the owner drove a 59 vette which was not yet 10 yrs old) was 13 cents per gallon for regular.

In Phoenix this week, regular varies between $2.63 and $2.75 per gallon.

[Chris Wire]

Nope. New Jersey banned self-service way back in 1949. At the time, legislators felt it was "too dangerous to have untrained people dispensing such a flammable liquid"...

There have been recent efforts to dispense (har-de-har) with the ban, claiming it would reduce retail fuel prices, but the idea has opposition. Some say self-service gasoline would inconvenience the elderly and ill and force people into inclement weather; gasoline retailers like the ban on self-service because their costs of insurance are significantly lower. The latter is a very good point, as these reduced insurance costs are reflected in the retail prices: despite the fact that retailers have to pay people (young adults, mostly) to pump the gasoline, New Jersey continues to offer the lowest retail fuel prices in the region. Anyone that lives near Jersey will typically wait until they&#39;re in the state to buy gasoline (I certainly do).

I&#39;m perfectly content letting them pump the gas, just as long as the prices stay lower then everywhere nearby... - GA
[/b]

It&#39;s pretty amazing how many things stay status quo, even when there is more than substantial evidence that the reasoning behind such a law is completely false. What&#39;s next.....you must pay to have your lawn mowed so we don&#39;t have people operating dangerous lawnmowers.....or you must pay to have your oil changed because we don&#39;t trust you to do it/dispose of it properly.....you must pay to have your face shaved because we can&#39;t trust you to use a dangerous razor so close to your face?

From a purely capitalistic standpoint, this is a farce. Why don&#39;t all the other states in the Northeast have similar laws, and since they don&#39;t, why are they not having the same problems mentioned (i.e. inconvenience the elderly, force people into inclement weather)? And why isn&#39;t the rest of the country experiencing frequent catastrophic gas station fires if it is such a danger to allow self-service? This is purely a government sticking its nose somewhere it absolutely doesn&#39;t belong. Too much government just gets in the way, it doesn&#39;t necessarily make it better. Stations could still offer full serve if they wanted the insurance break and wanted to serve that segment of the market. Meanwhile stations that wanted to could forego the cheap labor and put that savings toward any increase in insurance rates if they so desired. The point is to let the businesses, and more broadly the market place, decide what is best. As is so often the case, government rarely knows best.

Sidebar: Having spent the first half of my life growing up in the Northeast and the second half in the South, it is a study in contrasts as to how much the government injects itself into people&#39;s everyday lives. My family still lives in New York so I hear all the time how much more they pay in income taxes (we have no state tax in FL), annual vehicle inspections (none in FL), state sales taxes are higher (by more than 2% in most cases), and yet New York is going broke slowly while Florida has a $1.7B budget surplus and another $1.5B forcasted for 2006-07.

As far as gas goes, we are not yet reaping the benefits of a light hurricane season this year. The lowest I have seen in the last week is $2.76 which is only $.06 better than I paid 2 weeks ago. I&#39;m sure it&#39;s coming though.

(Afterthought I: I wonder if the lower prices in NJ are a reflection of slighly lower state gas taxes, since most retailers would pay just about the same wholesale price for their gasoline. I also wonder if NJ is keeping the gas tax slightly low on purpose since they have a guaranteed workforce in gas attendants that will then contribute back to the state via their state income tax to make up the shortfall. Any thoughts?)

(Afterthougt II: NJ could be playing a scam here since by keeping its prices artificially, and slightly, lower than surrounding states, they are pulling that extra revenue into NJ that might otherwise be spent outside the state. This, coupled with Afterthought I, could very well be a boon in tax revenue for the state. Again, thoughts?)

[lateapex911]

I follow stuff like this very carefullly....NOT! LOL...but I DID hear a recent bit on NJ on NPR, and it had to do with many people and businesses leaving the state (at a higher rate than nearly any other state) recently due to what was stated as "Nearly the highest taxes (sales/property and income, I guess) in the nation"...yet the government is broke.

I at first figured it was because it was an industrial wasteland, but hey, it&#39;s been like that for years, so maybe they&#39;re onto something...;)

[dickita15]

The point is to let the businesses, and more broadly the market place, decide what is best. As is so often the case, government rarely knows best.

[/b]
And special interest groups use the government to give themselves an advantage. In Massachusetts a bout 15 years ago they tried to put a 5-cent deposit on a quart of motor oil. It was to be like a bottle bill. You would pay the deposit and the only way to get the money back was to return the drain oil I the original bottle. The only way to avoid the deposit was to add the oil on site. This was supposed to prevent illegal dumping of waste oil. I was selling oil at the time and got involved in fighting this and it turned out the environmental group proposing this was funded by Jiffy Lube. They knew it would help their business if it cost more to change your own oil. I felt betrayed by another capitalist.

[lateapex911]

LOL, I bet it wasn&#39;t the first, or the last time you&#39;ve had that happen, Dick! I remeber 3 or so years ago reading about the money poured into new speed radar gun research, and the hundreds of guns given to Police units across the country, by a little company called Geico.

The oil deposit thing...what a joke!! For 5 cents I can&#39;t be bothered schlepping those stupid soada, etc cans back as it is! I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would NOT be sitting there with a freakin funnel pouring the old skanky oil back in the tiny original jar for a nickle! har har har!

What a farce!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg Amy]

But the GOOD thing about such dealings is that - especially with the Interweb - these latent agenda are typically uncovered. Once revealed, it allows "the masses" to make an informed decision.

As an example, Geico has never lived down those back-door dealings in regards to buying RADAR guns; to this day they continue to deny it, despite the evidence to the contrary. Those informed such as myself will usually refuse to pay them for insurance (and my accident/ticket records is virtually spotless -- on the street anyway...) Every time I get a call from someone trying to sell me GEICO insurance they get an earfull about those prior tactics, up to the point they choose to hang up on me. GEICO will never get a dime from me, ever, no matter how cheap their insurance may be.

By the same token, I&#39;m wagering our buddy Dickita Banana won&#39;t ever spend a dime at Jiffy Lube, even with someone else&#39;s money... - GA

[Bill Miller]

You always here the arguement in NJ that self-serve will lower the gas prices. I just made a trip to Westchester, Pa the other day, and didn&#39;t find one station that wasn&#39;t at least $0.15/gallon more than the local station I buy at here in NJ. The other thing I noticed was that diesel was ~$0.10 more per gallon than premium. Here in NJ, it is running between regular and mid-grade, in terms of pricing.

[Darren]

"You always here the arguement in NJ that self-serve will lower the gas prices. I just made a trip to Westchester (PA) the other day, & didn&#39;t find one station that wasn&#39;t at least $0.15/gallon more than the local station I buy at here in NJ."

Unfortunately, due to differences in city, county & state gas taxes, that is not a true apples to apples comparison. The small town I live in was losing gas sales (& tax $$$) due to the lower price of gas in the next county (just a few miles up the road). So, in their infinite wisdom (???), our elected officials raised the local gas tax to "compensate" for the lack of sales at the pump. Ya gotta love it!!! :dead_horse:

[Chris Wire]

UPDATE:

Just saw $2.56 this morning. That&#39;s $0.25 better than anything we were paying here in central FL for the past few months. I know we haven&#39;t caught some of you yet but there is still hope.

Maybe if we make FL a union state, and force companies to hire newbies to pump our gas so Grandma doesn&#39;t have to get out in the sunshine, we&#39;ll be down to $2.25 in no time! ;)

[JeffW]

Old Guy,

Apparently your elected officials never reviewed the successes of John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, and others who reduced the tax RATE to increase the tax REVENUE. If you choose not to learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

Update Denver - Regular Unleaded, $2.79 - $2.89. Some lame a$$ excuse about a diesel fuel shortage in Colorado a couple of months ago. Pipeline from TX/OK being used to pump diesel into Colorado now to restock us and not being used for gasoline. Refineries in CO apparently can&#39;t make enough gasoline to supply the Americans and immigrants(CA and otherwise), therefore we need to import gasoline from a foreign region (ever hear those yokels talk?). If we could just deport the foreigners (CA and ...), we would have enough gasoline in CO. Oh yeah, while we&#39;re at it, lets deport the NIMBY environmentalists who put ridiculous restrictions on drilling our own oil and building highly efficient, updated refineries.

Gasoline recently spotted in KS for $2.18 and central OH for $2.21.

Trip through NM, AZ, CA, NV, UT last month saw a high of $3.19 in LA while it was $3.05 in Denver. (Crossed into CA under false pretenses. Just told them I was Gerry Brown and Diane Feinstein&#39;s love child from Berkeley.)

Jeff

[Bill Miller]

Saw $2.56 for Regular over the weekend, here in NJ. But, it seems that diesel is taking a beating again. Same station had diesel for $2.86 (Premium was $2.81).

I don&#39;t understand that one, why gas and diesel don&#39;t move in the same direction, at the same time.

[ddewhurst]

***I don&#39;t understand that one, why gas and diesel don&#39;t move in the same direction, at the same time.***

It all has to due with demand & nothing to do with supply.

In Southeast Wisconsin gas has droped from $3.35 to $2.65 in less than 30 days.

[Off Camber]

Paid $2.35 today for regular with an additional $0.02per gallon off if you paid cash so $2.33 Yeah.
However Diesel is still over $3.00 I just dont understand it. :bash_1_:

[RacerBill]

Saturday night, I had to stop off at work (Dublin - North West Columbus) on the way home from Mid-Ohio. Car is on half a tank, when the Crew Chief shouts out "$2.14!!!!!". Filled up before getting back on the road!!!!.

[BobsAuto]

Most of you who came to NHIS for Cheap Date saw gas prices at the track at $2.59 and $2.56. Well, at those same two gas stations yesterday gas prices plummetted to $2.48 and this is with all the NASCAR folks in town. There is a station on Route 4 in Chichester that went from $2.59 to $2.42 in one day! :cavallo: Heha!!!

Does anyone know what the gas prices are in Lee, Barrington, and Stockbridge, MA? I&#39;m trying to plan my budget for LRP.

[ddewhurst]

National news last evening $2.19 in some town in Ohio.

[RacerBill]

South side of Columbus was $2.09 yesterday! Keep it goin&#39;!!!!!!

[Greg Amy]

There are respected voices - see below - starting to rattle sabres that oil prices may plunge. It&#39;s a naturally-occuring cycle when prices are artifically high (as they have been all summer). While I won&#39;t go so far as to predict $15/bbl oil, I have personally been on record stating I believe the "true" price of oil should be around the mid-40s...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busi...onsumers14.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003257679_oilconsumers14.html)

[Chris Wire]

Just paid $2.47 over the weekend......of course that was just before I found my new best friend.

www.gaspricewatch.com (http://www.gaspricewatch.com)

Found a station just a mile from work @ $2.14!!!

Lookout Ohio, here we come!

[BobsAuto]

Here in Loudon with all the NASCAR people here, gas dropped .08 a gallon to 2.48 at the south side of the track and today dropped another .06 to 2.42 after all the people had left. Heha!!!! I like this. Now if heating oil would drop in the same manner.

Since no one wrote further, I&#39;m updating this same reply. Another .15 a gallon drop as of today...Tuesday. That&#39;s a .28 drop in a matter of 24 hours!

[RacerBill]

PRICE BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Today!!!! Grove City, OH (just south of Columbus) $1.98!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Andy Bettencourt]

$2.29 south of Boston Sat 9-23

[BobsAuto]

We&#39;re still at 2.31 here in Loudon.....Where&#39;s that 1.98??????

[Chris Wire]

We&#39;re still at 2.31 here in Loudon.....Where&#39;s that 1.98??????
[/b]

Greenville, SC (according to my bro-in-law this afternoon)

I dropped my truck off to the dealer this morning for service about 3 miles from home. The local price leader (an independent) was $2.33 on the way there @ 9am......and $2.29 at noon on the way home!!!!

Fillerup, please! :023:

[pgipson]

Hmmm, gas prices here in the Valley of the Sun are still running in the $2.30+ range for 87. The good news is we don&#39;t have to worry about heating oil prices :D

[BobsAuto]

Gas prices are quickly getting down to the $2.00 mark around here. HEHA! :D Figure by the time we leave for LRP for the NARRC offs, it&#39;ll be there or below!!!!

[Bill Miller]

Paid $2.15 last week at my usual station (which happens to be the lowest priced around). Just went back through the earlier posts, and saw that they were $2.56 less than a month ago. Let&#39;s hope this trend continues. It was <$25 to fill my car up last week. That&#39;s the lowest it&#39;s been in a looonnnggg time.

[BobsAuto]

NO!!!!!

Heard today that crude jumped .62/barrel today. Hope that is not BAD news for our gas prices.