Another possible format for a race weekend

[RKramden]

Well, I was listening, and thinking (that's the dangerous part) and came up with yet another variation :rolleyes: on the format for a race weekend that has NO practice and NO qualifying, just racing. :eclipsee_steering:

Saturday AM is short sprint races, grid set by drivers NERRC (or NARRC, or MARRS) points in that class.
Maybe 10 or 12 lap races at LRP or NHIS, 6 or 8 at Summit. If playing with the pace car takes too much time, then can it, and have the pole sitter set the pace.

So, you don't have time to be late. You don't have time to warm up. Unload, get the engine warm, and go out and race. No screwing around, no excuses.

Saturday PM is regional length races, grid is set by fastest lap in the previous race.

Sunday AM is another (even shorter?) sprint race, grid set by the fastest time
in either Saturday sessions.

Sunday PM is a longer than regional race (but probably not National length) with the grid set by fastest time from the three previous sessions. (Or maybe, the fastest time from Sunday AM only.)

The people who run the events need to tighen up their act (in terms of way too much downtime between sessions) to make this work, and you may get only two minutes warning on the grid.

Is such short notice OK?

If you break on course (or crash :wacko: ), you may get taken out thru some back gate and brought back into the paddock, or maybe, you might be left out there for a session or two (if the car is in a safe place.) For example, if there is one (or two) more sessions before lunch or the afternoon snack run, and it is going to stop the event for 5 or 8 minutes to drag you back in, you may just as well help the flaggers for a session, they need the help in any case and you may find a new crew person or teach them a thing or two. :)

Pros: 4 races in one weekend :happy204:
Cons: time is tight and screwing about between sessions will kill the day.

So, what do people think?

More races, no qualifying. Is it worth the work to make it happen?

[Andy Bettencourt]

I like it. The one problem I see is that you would have to make them all points races. If not, because the following grid is based on fast lap, they would all be glorified qualifiers - and therefor add no value (to me).

Make sure if they are races, they count.

I also think this format once a year would be good because not everyone would like it.

AB

[lateapex911]

My opinion....

3 minutes on grid. Safety gear needs to be hooked up correctly, and it's tough to do alone fast.

Not sure I think longer than regional races are a big deal, personally. But if it you were going to do that, it would be cool to have a mid race pace car for a lap, just to shake things up. ;)

OK, I know thats goofy, but hey, it could be fun. And maybe invert the grid for giggles too on one race. Have the pole sitter pull a number between 0 and 6 out of a hat, and thats the number of grid spots inverted. Ok, now I'm pissing people off, LOL....

But it's a Regional...we COULD do it.. ;)

[zracre]

our last sebring regional race we had one practice one qualifier and one race on saturday. Sunday we had a warm up then 2 more races. Your starting position starts with 1st qual then finishing positions for the races. Works great for a regional but not a SARRC type thing. Great fun!

[RKramden]

I like it. The one problem I see is that you would have to make them all points races. If not, because the following grid is based on fast lap, they would all be glorified qualifiers - and therefor add no value (to me).
Make sure if they are races, they count.
I also think this format once a year would be good because not everyone would like it.
[/b]

Easy for the comp board to do for NERRC, not easy for NARRC.
But, since it is four races, how about each of the 4 getting half points, so the one weekend does not dominate the points too much.
Or, Full points in all 4 races, but only the best two count towards NERRC points?
Trophies could be based on the total points for all four races.
Total contribution to your points would be on the scale of a double then, and keep it more "balanced" for the entire season.
The last race of the 4 could be for NARRC points, rewarding you for hanging in, not trashing your car in an early race.
We would need some rules verbiage about how the points get counted and how the points keeper determines what races to count, but that isn't too hard.

This could be like an endurance race, where the endurance part is keeping your act together over four races rather than over 4 hours.

The whole thing is just an idea, not something I want to push, but something to get people thinking "Outside the Box" and come up with a workable idea for a fun format for next year. It's probably time to start thinking about this because next years plans probably need to be roughed in by the start of November (for the NEDIV / NARRC meeting.)

[Tkczecheredflag]

It's an interesting menu. Serve it up - If we don't like the food I'm sure we will let the cook know. I looks appetizing.

[RSTPerformance]

I like all the ideas posted above... WAY COOL!!!! I say lets do something different and fun at each event. Not suer who will make it happen, but I will help however I can even if it is just support that is needed.

The one issue that I really think is the only issue is the points. Even the tripple we had this year really put importance on that one event. 3 of your 7 races for NERRC were those races. While in some ways I like that as it draws entries, in other ways I don't like it. If we had a bunch of tripple or quadroople race weekends where best 2 counted of each counted then I think things would get spiced up a bit. Lots of Tie's that would require additional weekends, as well as it relieves stress for the weekend as people wouldn't be so upset if they had issues in one of the races and just decided to quit the one race to figure out the car for the other races. it certainly would have made the tripple weekend far more enjoyable for our entire team as we had one car DNF a race and another car not even start in one of the races. I am sure many other people delt with some of the same situations.

Raymond "Good job on thinking outside the box (or shall we say; starters stand)" Blethen

[RussJones]

The idea of having 2 races a day is just brilliant. Best race weekend of my life, NHIS Memorial Day weekend 2006, felt like I raced my ass off, no sitting around, no boring qualifiers....just action all weekend, tons of smiles, great war stories etc etc. Who ever organized that weekend, thank you.

Worst weekend racing, Limerock June 17, 2006, drove for what seemed an eternity, got to the track late afternoon was told by a guy sitting in a golf cart at the entrance to wait until "we could enter". Asked the 4 guys sitting around doing nothing at the gate why we couldn't just drop off our racecar and leave, got a blank stare. Came back to the track an hour later, and waited in now a 100ft long registration line, got eaten by various species of bugs, after almost dying of dehydration, made my way to a packed in-field, was told by 2 guys standing on top of the hill to bear left - thanks guys, squeezed my trailer into a muddy spot. Opps, cant start my motor because the locals dont like us, so left the car on the trailer. Got to a restaurant nice and late, waited for a table. Stayed in an over-priced Inn, the bed was too small, slept like crap. Next moring got to the track, it started raining, changed tires in the muck, barely made it to qualify. Finally my race, started upper-mid pack, worked my way up. Some poor bastard named Tim ITB, went through West Bend a little too fast and hit the huge earth barriers that are guaranteed to not only ruin your car but to throw you back on the track for a total mess (hey LRP did you ever think about gravel traps). Watched Lime Rock crew take 15 minutes to clear a car that would have taken NHIS crew 5 min, drove around the track for 8 laps at 30mph. Restarted the race, passed like a million cars on the straightaway, and could finally see the lead group, got stuck in Big Bend behind an RX7 that was out for a Sunday drive, they ended the race on that lap. 30+ hours of my time, hundreds of dollars in gas, hotel, food, oh and a nice fat $280 registration fee (Lime rock has to pay all the people directing traffic, did you ever hear of signs?) It was quite the event.

In other words, we are RECREATIONAL race drivers, not pros. We want the biggest, loudest, funest, BANG for our buck. I come to race, not sit around and wait, as long as the starting order is reasonably fair, I vote to pack in as many races as possible, at every event even 1 day regionals.

RJ

[lateapex911]

.......(hey LRP did you ever think about gravel traps).
[/b]

Be careful what you ask for. Ever race at the Glen? I'd rather there was a grass strip on the outside of the corner, then pavement. Cars stop better and under more control on asphalt than gravel.


... oh and a nice fat $280 registration fee (Lime rock has to pay all the people directing traffic, did you ever hear of signs?) It was quite the event.
[/b]

Feel free to send your thoughts to track management. Regions pay about $44,000.00 for a weekend rental, and for that fee, you'd think they'd have better staffing.

[TimM ITB]

Hey Russ;

this is TimM ITB - and that wasn't me (luckily) at LRP that smashed the earthen barrier. I had previous business commitments that kept me from the track that weekend. I have smashed MANY other parts of the track at LRP on several other occassions, however!! I think that racer that you saw was Dave Gran from what I'm told.

But, back to the main topic of your post - and that is that we, as "weekend warriors" are 99.99 % all looking for the same thing - and you are right on with the idea of "most bang for the buck" in terms of racing. As a matter of fact, I doubt that I will be going to LRP much in the future simply due to the BS involved (as you related) of their one day events. Two day events - absolutely - I love the racing on that track.

As for the Pig Roast and the Cheap Date, I say we try this:

Use the exact same format that we had for Memorial Day weekend, but use the Chicane Chicane on Saturday (allows people in the morning session to get the "feel" of the chicane in a non-racing atmosphere) and then the Chicane / Nascar Oval on Sunday. I personally don't even care if the Sunday morning race is a points race or not, it still has a LOT of meaning for where you start on in the afternoon race - which IS for points.

Speaking to another suggestion that was made - I do think that it may be best for everyone if we don't do any "inverted" concept for grid, simply because we have had plenty of carnage already this year, and with all of the fast guys in the rear of the field in that scenario, well, I think that could lead to potential trouble??

Finally, someone in an earlier post had suggested an even shorter sprint race in the morning to allow us longer races in the afternoon. I think that's a great idea! A 10 lap "qualifying" race to allow for at least a 25 lap "feature" or "points" race??

Anyway, I think that the format used for the Memorial Day weekend was excellent - and I would love to see that - or something similar - used again.

later,

Tim M

[RKramden]

Use the exact same format that we had for Memorial Day weekend, but use the Chicane Chicane on Saturday (allows people in the morning session to get the "feel" of the chicane in a non-racing atmosphere) and then the Chicane / Nascar Oval on Sunday.
[/b]

I don't think the rules let you change the track configuration DURING an event like that. The only reason we can do it on a double weekend is that each day is a different event.

What we could do is have a double,

Saturday, Chicane/Chicane, Sprint race (grid by points), Regional race.
Best finish counts for points
Sunday, Oval/Chicane, Short Sprint (grid by points), longer than Regional race.
Again, best finish counts for points.

If we don't change the configuration of the track, then we can do things like best 2 out of three for points (Memorial Day format) or best 2 out of the 4 races for points (new idea format.)

If we were to count more than two races from the weekend, it kind of makes the event be the NERRC runoffs®, which may not be a bad idea.

(And, yes, I actually remember when the NARRC runoffs were by invite only, and you had to have a bunch of points, like 40 or 50, to even get an invite.)

In any case, the last race of the event counts for NARRC points.

[itracer]

I liked the Memorial day format. I do think that qualifing has a place in road racing. If you start the weekend with a "race" then you may keep away the people who have not run the track before. I do not think that I would want to show up at a track I've never driven and start from the back (points) and have to deal with the traffic going through three or the south chicane on the first lap.

Stick with the Mem. Day schedule. Change it up for Sunday (different layout) and use the finishing positions from Saturday. It may give some of the reverse grid as some are better with the chicane than others.

Frankly it doesn't matter to me for the rest of this year because I won't be at either of the two best races of the year. I will only be able to make the August single regional. But I do want the format to be a good one for next year.

Memorial Day weekend was one of the best racing weekends I have had and I had mechancal issues on both days!

[RussJones]

Hey Tim, sorry to confuse you with ITB Dave, I was on a roll. The weekends at NHIS are so much fun, reasonably priced, staff is friendly, good track time, and facilities excellent. NER SCCA does a great job by listening to their members and tries interesting and new formats, all of which seem to happen at NHIS. The format for Memorial Day was a winner.