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RKramden
06-25-2006, 12:12 PM
Where are they? :(

zracre
06-25-2006, 01:47 PM
http://roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/threa...posts=13#M15591 (http://roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=926&posts=13#M15591)

I saw this on rrax

Gregg
06-25-2006, 05:19 PM
Here's a nice writeup from one of the local papers...

http://www.journal-news.net/sports/story/0...ro_062506_s.asp (http://www.journal-news.net/sports/story/0625202006_spt01_enduro_062506_s.asp)

Gregg "The Torch" Ginsberg :wacko:

Tom Blaney
06-25-2006, 07:01 PM
Because I saw the smart ass remark from Catch 22, regarding our failure let me make it perfectly clear, I ran consistant 29's & 30's for two 1.25 sessions with no mechanical failure, or failures because of the weight change, we were knocked out at 8PM because we had a short in the light bar wire harness that blew the alternator, and we ran out of batteries to replace. We had to replace an upright because we dropped the car down from a tire change without the lugs tight on one side and we snapped two wheel studs.

But I want to thank all the workers and thanks to all of the drivers out there who were gentlemen and gave room to me and other faster cars in the race. The miata guys were much less aggressive to us faster cars and in return many got good tows and passing opportunities.

Thanks again to the group and we had quite a few laughs and great teamwork.

Tom Blaney

MMiskoe
06-25-2006, 08:48 PM
I'd like to see a full set of results too, we went home early.

This was the 6th trip we'd made there and the first one we didn't finish. Overheated at about 7 hours in. W/ a 3 lap lead for the overall no less. Grump.

Looked pretty rough for the first 2 hours while I stood in the pit, after that it seemed to settle down. Had a great race w/ the RC Import guys after the caution that happened at about 3 hours. (thanks Rick, that was a lot of fun!)

I was glad to see that the RX7 that won it did so by good driving and planning, rather than just outspending everyone else as it has been for most of the past several years. Don't know who they were but it sure looked like they were having to work hard to get to the front and stay there. Its much more fun to watch someone get rewarded for hard work than just being lucky enough to bring a better car.

Hope I gave everyone room, if I didn't let me know so I don't do it again. The goal is to win, but to so by racing the same way we want to be raced.

Matt
#23 ITE Miata

RKramden
06-25-2006, 08:49 PM
I read the story in the local paper.

Too bad about Brian Mushnick's car. I am glad he is OK.

I guess it is time for him to build a Gen 2 RX7.

Is there something about racing a Rabbit (nee Golf) on the track? My better half's Rabbit was rolled into a ball at the runoffs one year, and the only thing worth stripping from the car was the motor. (But she did get a real nice story with pictures in Autoweek that year....)

Gregg
06-25-2006, 09:40 PM
You should see the photo that was published in the paper (not online). It's got the car completely inverted, windshield half hanging out, w/ two Miatae seemingly driving directly under it. Stellar photo that I'd scan in but having once been in the photog & paper biz I'm loathe to do w/out permission.

BTW, results are up:

http://offtotheraces.net/12HourFinal2006.pdf

16v
06-25-2006, 09:56 PM
it was definately not pretty

http://www.briansgarage.com/v3/images/06/summit_wreck/BG_flip2.jpg

67ITB
06-25-2006, 10:27 PM
Sorry to hear about Mayor Mushnick's ride :wacko: !! That sucks.
Glad he is OK

Matt Bal

JLawton
06-26-2006, 07:30 AM
I wish I could echo Tom's comments about the aggressiveness of "certain" cars....... Maybe we had a different perspective being in one of the slower classes........

We saw a lot of poor decisions when it came to passing (this was not the case with the faster cars) It made no sense to me why these drivers were hammering each other like it was the last lap of a sprint race!! I'm sure you'll be hearing more on our "little incident"...........In lap 8!!!! :mad1:

Hope we gave people plenty of room. But figuring we probably got passed about 600 times (from my rough calculations)............... :unsure: The few times I ran door handle to door handle with the cars in our class, they did a great job. Made it fun!! Hope the feeling is the same!

But I also had a blast. The Phil Phillips/Conover Engines Golf was flawless. In fact, it was handling and braking just as good at 11:00 pm as it was in my first session!! Besides fixing crash damage, we only had to tighten the front hub nut, add a teaspoon of oil and that was it!! It was an incredible car!! Nice job Kirk and Cameron.

Great job by the workers, thank you!! Thanks to the the rest of the team for a great time!!

Yea, bummer about Brian and his VW. Glad he was OK. It looked pretty scarey!! Too bad for Matt Miskoe and his team.

Very tired, very sore......But can't wait till next year!!

Knestis
06-26-2006, 08:58 AM
On reflection - and with a good night's sleep in me - we have to be pretty damned happy with our result. I was telling Cameron that generally, when someone talks up the positives of a race they didn't win, it sounds like excuses but I'm very pleased.

I'd first like to apologize for being part of the problem when I charged into the five-foot long 'straight' between T5 and the Carousel, and into the quarter panel of a slow Miata - the white York entry, maybe? I was doing exactly what we're were being so critical of for the 11.5 hours up to that point, being a selfish bahstahd. The more I thought about it, the more pissed off I was at myself for being sucked into the vortex of stupidity. I will not however apologize to the four who, over the course of my stints, dived inside of me at T1, only to come to a grinding halt in front of me. They got a push for their trouble and should be thanking ME for giving them back a couple of the tenths that they threw away.

Cameron, Bill Miller, Phil Phillips, and Lee 'Yoda' Grimes did a great job getting a new tie rod - and 74 tie wraps - on the car after we got clobbered. Jeff is absolutely right that the car was literally easier to drive when I got in at 11:00pm than it had been in practice.

I'll let Greg fill in all of the details of the actual snub but will add in advance that we were talking just a lap before he came in about how impressed we were that he was hanging back, giving the particularly dumbass group of Miati plenty of room to beat on each other. He took his new fender home with him, autographed by the entire crew.

We've now completed 37 hours of long races with this group and spent a total of about 45 minutes doing unplanned repairs. We still haven't changed any brakes during a race and averaged about 11 mpg this weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing mylaps to get a better picture of how long we were actually delayed.

A huge thanks also to Collins Conover (head geek, who needs a Patrick Head-spec glass box next to the pit wall for his toys), Evan and Kathy Webb (for dumping fuel, taking great care of the whole crew, and shooting pictures), Spencer Conover (our equivalent of the enthusiastic, do-everything intern who got my ass out of a half dozen cracks), Jeff Lawton and Phil (for taking such good care of the car), and Greg 'Captain Panties' Amy for continuing to help the 'gentleman' car owner to go faster.

(PS to GA - Laurene says she forgives you, as long as you "weren't doing anything stupid when Pablo got hurt.")

K

OG Racing
06-26-2006, 09:43 AM
Deleted - wrong user

mgyip
06-26-2006, 09:48 AM
I wish I could echo Tom's comments about the aggressiveness of "certain" cars....... [/b]

Hmm - let me guess what makes/models of cars he's referring to... :wacko:

I didn't arrive until 2200h on Sat due to a previous committment that went by the wayside after an incident on Friday afternoon. However I rec'd a blow-by-blow report from my ace race reporter Richard, son of the RC Imports team owner, Rick. He filled me in on all the "incidents", most of whom involved friends and acquaintances which pained me deeply since I don't care to see anyone's day ruined by an incident of any sort, even though s**t happens in racing.

[Caution - ranting below]
The question that begs to be asked and answered is "What is being done about these overagressive drivers who insist on crashing and banging at will?" The DC Region Stewards have instituted a "get tough on body work" policy in order to make such behaviour become expensive. However a good number of the DC Region have very deep pockets which makes this approach only marginally effective. IMHO, Stewards need to become PROACTIVE - when they receive numerous calls about a car (or cars) banging or bump drafting, pull them in ASAP and give them a stop and go. If the driver can't pull his/her head out of their butt, provide them with a nice probationary letter and so forth.

I'm not suggesting anything as non-competitive as a 13/13 rule but there clearly can be a happy medium. I've been working for a Grand Am Cup team this year and have been more involved than in previous years. As a result, I've been listening to the Net religiously and am impressed that Grand Am Cup proactively is telling drivers to "cease and desist" or in the case of a certain CTS-V driver, to go home and never disgrace VIR again.
[Rant off]

Catch22
06-26-2006, 10:22 AM
Because I saw the smart ass remark from Catch 22, regarding our failure let me make it perfectly clear...
[/b]

Gee Tom, I am a smartass, so that explains that.

As to why I'd be a smartass to you...
Well, I could answer your post above with something like "You should have let me wire the car, I have been wiring ITA cars for years and have never ever had any issues. My wiring is proven to be perfect and lasts longer than granite."
and then I could add...
"You are having problems because you just did it wrong."

Thats the type of answer I've watched YOU give to people on various web boards (including this one) for years. Any time someone has an issue or a failure its because they are doing something wrong or more often because they aren't using your parts.
I'm simply tossing your own stuff back at you. Feels great doesn't it?

Sorry for the detour, and yes, I know it was a waste of time.
Carry on...

Tom Blaney
06-26-2006, 10:34 AM
For your information, the car no longer belongs to me, and I was not responsible for the wiring installation. The new owners did this years prep on the car, and seemed to have made a minor but critical mistake. However the balance of the car remained as it was when I owned it, so as in other events, the mechanical components that I prepared (and that are in many other CRX's) did not fail.

As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.

My guys were able to replace an entire upright assembly and back on the track in less than 15 minutes (which included working on halfshafts, joints, tierods etc) which I see as quite impressive. During the weekend, we had 3 different individuals from different teams come over and comment on the impressive about of work that my boys did.

I will make comments on the board based on what people say is happening or their experiences, not on some halfass remark you made about reliability when you had no clue what you were talking about (as you seem to do on more than one occasion), so next time engage your brain before you touch a keyboard or dribble verbage past your teeth)

Tom Blaney

Bill Miller
06-26-2006, 10:52 AM
Seems like the best place to add comments about the weekend, so here goes.

First off, I'm glad that Brian is ok, that car took a major shot. Kudos to whoever did the cage in that car! :023:

And a big thanks to the folks from Joe M's and Brian M's crew that lent us various stuff throughout the race. Sure made things go easier!! :023:

A couple comments about our team. This was my second 12-hour @ SP w/ them, and I just want to say, I couldn't imagine a better group of people to work with. Everyone brings something to the table, and I can't imagine not having someone there. The chances for adversity in a race like this are high, but even when it shows up, everyone takes it in stride and remains up-beat. The 'do whatever it takes' attitude is everywhere. And I can't say that people check their egos at the door, because I really don't think that any of these people have one to check.

Kirk - Thanks for your attention to detail in building such a good car, made my job easy!

Cameron - It's always a pleasure to work with you!! :023:

Evan and Kathy - Not only are you guys great, but you've got two of the coolest dogs around!!

Phil - To say that your unflappable would be an understatement (hard to believe that we met almsot 20 years ago!)

Jeff - If you were any more relaxed, you'd probably be asleep. Oh, wait, you were asleep (don't know how you could do it w/ all that noise). Seriously, it's a pleasure to work w/ you, looking forward to VIR.

Collins - Without a doubt, you've got the coolest toys going (and they get the chicks! :023: )

Spencer - Hydrate or die! :D Thanks for all your help!

Dave - Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed yourself, and thanks for the help.

Lee - I had no idea you were such a good juggler, you've set a pretty high bar. Great job! :023:

Greg - Without a doubt, the best sport I've ever met!

Thanks again for a great time, and I'm really looking forward to VIR!!!!

JamesB
06-26-2006, 11:21 AM
Well I had a great time working the event. I don't think I had a moment where people didnt offer me food, water, or a thank you for wearing my whites this weekend. It was great to finally put a few faces to the names here.

The pablo team was like clockwork and had really impressive stops. Though I must make sure I have my whistle on me at all times just in case Bill decides to play chicken with the RC import benz or another car trying to leave the pits. (Bill I suggest a miata next time they dent easier if you loose.)

Catch22
06-26-2006, 12:03 PM
For your information, the car no longer belongs to me, and I was not responsible for the wiring installation. The new owners did this years prep on the car, and seemed to have made a minor but critical mistake. However the balance of the car remained as it was when I owned it, so as in other events, the mechanical components that I prepared (and that are in many other CRX's) did not fail.

As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.

My guys were able to replace an entire upright assembly and back on the track in less than 15 minutes (which included working on halfshafts, joints, tierods etc) which I see as quite impressive. During the weekend, we had 3 different individuals from different teams come over and comment on the impressive about of work that my boys did.

I will make comments on the board based on what people say is happening or their experiences, not on some halfass remark you made about reliability when you had no clue what you were talking about (as you seem to do on more than one occasion), so next time engage your brain before you touch a keyboard or dribble verbage past your teeth)

Tom Blaney
[/b]

As predictable as the sunrise.

We have attained status quo. Situation normal. Carry on.

JoelG
06-26-2006, 12:10 PM
I put my little write up on the (mis)adventures of the ITS #13 and #36 BMWs over RR-AX.com on the thread linked from this one.

I lost a tire and wheel in the pits at the 12 hour. It was a Kosei 15x7 4x100 et27 with a 225/50-15 kumho on it and could easily be mistaken for a spec miata (or lots of other) cars wheel. It didn't have my name or car number on it or anything. I suspect that it may have been picked up by accident by the folks that were in the pit one down from us. I think we were in pit 8 but I could be wrong. Anyway, if anyone picked up a wheel like that doesn't quite fit their car, its mine. You can email me at joel dot gallun at gmail dot com.

Greg Amy
06-26-2006, 12:40 PM
Let's start with the positive: as anyone that has been a part of, or around, this team can attest, this is a fantastic group of people with which to be associated. Jeff put it quite well and succinctly during our drive home yesterday: if it was anyone else, we'd probably not be doing it near as often (or at all). I cannot say enough for this team and its protagonists. Cheers to you guys!

As for "The Lap Eight Incident", well, how do I put this delicately without starting a major pissing match? I really can't. Bottom line, as a generalized group of people the Spec Miata drivers drive like total asshats. There, I said it, let the war begin.

Here's a sanitized, edited version of The Event I sent to a friend via email:

The Spec Miatas were all driving like . Dive bombing, stupid low-percentage passes, passing in areas guaranteed to slow down both parties unless the passee drove off the road. Very selfish, me-me-me, gotta-get-this-done-right-now-or-we're-gonna-die type of driving. Even the low-key drivers of the team were getting hacked off by these [idiots].

And this was on the opening laps.

I took the green flag stint, starting 43rd of 50 overall, 2nd of 4 (?) in class. The field looked like a Miata convention, comprising (I heard) 36 of the 50 slots. Believe it or not, everyone tippy-toed through T1 with no immediately noticeable results. However, by the start of lap 2 all the Special Me's (and Super-Special Me's and Super-Special-Me's dressed up with ITA and ITS decals) were beating up on each other. ON THE SECOND LAP! And mean literally bumping, hip-checks, [stuff] like that. I quickly passed the leading ITB car and got stuck behind a pack of about 8 or so of these wankers; realizing that there was NO way I was getting through them I laid back about 100 or so feet to let them duke it out and thin out the herd.

Unfortunately, one of the [idiots] caught me off guard and tried a STUPID dive bomb pass on another Miata into a no-braking, all-momentum, full-throttle corner (entering turn 9) and started a classic Miata Melee in front of me. ON LAP EIGHT OF A FREAKIN' 12 HOUR RACE! Dust and cars was flying everywhere and I turned hard outside to intentionally drive off the track. [i]Just as I was about to make it through the mess a black Special Me (the one that may have started this whole thing) backed out of the dust cloud to intercept my line off the track; I tried to turn away but couldn't and hit him square in the rear quarter. DAMMIT!!!

The car started fine (I had locked it up and stalled the engine when I hit the grass) but it was obvious the right-front suspension was bent. I turned the car around, only to see the "driver" of the Special Me out of the car and walking/running towards me. I let him know via hand signals he was Number One and drove towards the track, watching for the corner worker's signals to re-enter, and as I sat there waiting for directions the guy was yelling into the driver's window and banging on the roof! I ignored him and merged back into the flow and went straight into the pits.

(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in. A steward told me "they had a long discussion." The guy never got back on the track and was listed as a DNF with only 8 laps. Classic.)

I made it into the pits, cussing like an unhappy sailor (a pitlane worker near us said she learned a few new words that day - I apologized to the group afterwards). Damage on the Golf wasn't as bad as I feared: the bumper cover was trashed (it got tie-wrapped/taped up), the right front fender was crushed (banged out), fender liner was ripped and worn (removed), the passenger door was bashed (no performance effect), there was a bent tie rod, and a destroyed tire. Cameron and crew replaced the tie rod and tire, quick-aligned the car, and I was on my way. I had to come in once more for an alignment check (slightly toed-in) and once it was all said and done we had lost 19 laps - about 26 minutes - for the repairs, but the car felt fine. In fact, I ripped off a couple of near-qualifying times and kept going (Jeff later beat those times - and set fastest team race lap - in his stint).

At that point I decided since I had already bought a fender, door, and bumper cover I was going to knock every G-D SM off the track I could find ("they should all pay for sins of the family" is how I think I put it), but instead I behaved...

The rest of the day went swimmingly, with nary a major concern, except for long-term continuation of the afore-mentioned Stupid Miata Tricks. You would not believe some of the selfish, short-term thinking of these guys, sticking their little noses into places that made no sense, either strategically or tactically. The attitude is pretty much "I'm faster, it's your responsibility to get out of my way!" Funny part is, on rare occasion (and I do mean rare) you'd have one of those experienced drivers that understood what it meant to work traffic, to strategic "plan" a pass such to maximize relative traits and to minimize time loss to both parties involved. When you saw those guys you'd work with them and probably only tie them up - at most - 1/2 second. Then you've got the Terrible Two's drivers trying to barge in and hip check a Golf in the carousel. Interesting enough, you'd be surprised at how slow and wide a Golf gets through there...as one other drive put it, "hey, Chief, you're slowing me down? Then we're BOTH slowing down!" and they'd lose AT LEAST 2 seconds on that lap, plus whatever momentum they lost on the subsequent lap. The really funny part? They'd do the SAME G-D THING next time by! Amazing, simply awe-inspiring.

We finished the race second place in class -- 18 laps down. To say I'm ripped with both "them" and myself for letting it happen is an understatement. But, I'm proud of the job the guys did to get us back online and I'm proud what we did for the rest of the race.

Here's the ironic kicker: in July '04 I rented the Flatout #00 for the Pro Spec Miata race at LRP. I started near the back of the pack (it was my first time in a SM) and ended up t-boning a guy that was driving like an [idiot] and spun. Guess what sponsor decal was on the rear window of the car I tagged on Lap Eight? You guess it: same one. I gotta wonder if - up until reading this post - the guy knew I'm the same person? If it was the same driver, I refer you back to my posts on SM.com just after that July 2004 event. It's obvious nothing's changed in two years...

Karma's a pisser (thanks Christine), ain't it?

I hate Spec Miatas.

Knestis
06-26-2006, 01:08 PM
Another PS to the Summit festivities: We were the first team at any club enduro I've attended to put safety helmets on all of our over-the-wall guys. We had some sweaty noggins (Lee particularly, since he spent HOURS out at the wall) but no complaints, using OTS "extreme sports" helmets from Triple 8. Our thinking is that, if someone is going to be the poster child for the rule requiring helmets some day, it won't be one of our guys.

K

mgyip
06-26-2006, 01:09 PM
(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in. A steward told me "they had a long discussion." The guy never got back on the track and was listed as a DNF with only 8 laps. Classic.)[/b]

I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...

Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.

Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.

gsbaker
06-26-2006, 01:15 PM
http://www.briansgarage.com/v3/images/06/summit_wreck/BG_flip2.jpg
Good grief! We want you to buy the safety equipment, not use it!!

Bill Miller
06-26-2006, 01:15 PM
I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...

Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.

Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.
[/b]


Yeah Matt, they should take a page from your book and learn that you only use smaller cars for auxillary brakes!!! (kidding bud :birra: )

Good point about the protest. I don't ever recall the topic ever comming up throughout the course of the race. I think we were all focused on getting the car fixed and fixed right, and seeing what, if anything, we could do to catch the #28 car. Any way to find out which driver started the race in that car?

JamesB
06-26-2006, 01:28 PM
Other then asking Troxel and Team York, no idea. I think it was a two driver team of both Troxels, but I didnt not work that section of the pits to know for sure.

Bill Miller
06-26-2006, 01:31 PM
Other then asking Troxel and Team York, no idea. I think it was a two driver team of both Troxels, but I didnt not work that section of the pits to know for sure.
[/b]

Not that team James, the #77 car that was involved w/ us on lap 8.

JamesB
06-26-2006, 01:33 PM
oh, I don't know. I wonder if you can ask for the name from the incident report.

mgyip
06-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Good point about the protest. I don't ever recall the topic ever comming up throughout the course of the race. I think we were all focused on getting the car fixed and fixed right, and seeing what, if anything, we could do to catch the #28 car. Any way to find out which driver started the race in that car?
[/b]

At this point, a protest is moot but it certainly is food for thought in the future. I'm not a huge fan of protesting every infraction BUT when it becomes evident that another driver is a hazard, it's time to remove said driver. We did this in ITA a few years ago only to have that driver switch regions (where they were more sympathetic to his driving style or lack thereof) - fortunately said driver was intelligent enough NOT to return to Summit Point where he felt he had been victimized (b/c he kept crashing into lap traffic and "racing" the leaders).

I certainly applaud your collective efforts in repairing the car - obviously fixing the car and getting it back on the track are paramount. However when someone is that blantantly STUPID, I'd advocate protesting since such action can sway a Steward who has a corner report but no input from the affected driver/team to further enhance his/her decisions. The only caveat is to be damn sure about the protest - a few years ago, a certain P-Car team tried to protest a certain MB Team for pitting when the pits were closed. Unfortunately numerous cars pitted as well but they weren't part of the protest and it was therefore disallowed b/c the protest was clearly aimed to keep the MB Team from winning rather than it was to make the race fair. Had the P-Car team protested THE ENTIRE RACE b/c of poor pit closure signs, that probably would have been a very different story but that's in another nightmare unto itself.

And Bill, you forget that I drive THE LARGEST (and probably the heaviest) vehicle in ITA - a Golf aka The Flying Pig.

Bill Miller
06-26-2006, 02:38 PM
And Bill, you forget that I am THE LARGEST (and probably the heaviest) driver in ITA - aka The Flying Pig.
[/b]


:lol: :P :birra:

All kidding aside, I agree w/ you 110% Matt. If the driver was yelling and screaming at Greg, and beating on the car, then by all means, he was deserving of a protest. But being as he seemed to take care of endearing himself to the stewards all by himself, it would have probably been akin to gilding the lily.

BTW, in the six years that I crewed for a short-track asphalt team, I saw plenty of bone-headed moves, w/ significantly different results. I'm so glad that road racing is a more 'gentlemanly' sport! :P

JamesB
06-26-2006, 02:42 PM
Oh the moment the full report hit the radio about his conduct I already knew race control, the steward and possibly the SOM was going to speak with him. I was actually shocked and I had a rookie pit marshal in the truck with me at turn 5 when the calls came out. I had to explain to him this is NOT normal which thankfully he believed.

dave parker
06-26-2006, 02:58 PM
I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...

Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.

Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.
[/b]

The #77 car was paddocked right next to us. I did see two of the safety stewards have a discussion with the driver after the incident. I don't know what happened after the discussion, but the team did pack up and leave very quickly. Seems like a waste to me, all the money and effort to go to this race and crash out in the first half hour.

I too am glad that Brian Mushnick is ok. He crawled out of the upside down Golf and stood there making the perfect target of himself after the roll. Thankfully nobody collected him while he was greatly exposed. But I can imagine that his bell was ringing pretty hard from the multiple impacts.

Thanks to all who made this a great race as usual.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
I ONLY ROLL CARS FOR MONEY.

erlrich
06-26-2006, 03:13 PM
Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons...[/b] Yes, but judging by what I heard from our drivers most of those guys stayed home.

Or, as was the case with our team, they were guys who regularly drive in other classes, and just happened to get in a Miata for this weekend. I was crewing for Kirk Dohne and company (including drivers Pat Sharkitt and Runoffs FM champ Chris Schanzle), and seemingly every time one of them came in they would have a story of some stupidity on the part of another Miata driver. Unfortunately (or not) our guys had to miss most of the early race excitement, as brake failure going into 5 on the second lap put Kirk into the tires, and resulted in an hour and a half in the paddock replacing steering rack, tie rod ends, brake pieces, etc, in addition to pounding out sheet metal along the whole left side of the car. I don't know how far down we were by the time we got back out, but it must have been something like 70 - 75 laps. The rest of the day was uneventful by comparison, and between attrition on the part of other cars, and some solid driving on our guys part (fast lap in the 1:32's) we were able to pick up some 16 - 17 places by midnight.

All in all the weekend was an awesome experience. Kirk, Pat, and Chris managed to assemble a great bunch of guys (and girls) together for a crew - I was continually impressed by the enthusiasm and positive attitude shown by every member, even when faced with a twisted and broken race car only 5 minutes into the event. I can only hope to get the chance to get back out there next year.

Kirk K, it was nice to finally meet you and put a face to the name. Greg, I'm sorry I decided to stop by while you were out there terrorizing those poor Miata drivers :D , maybe I'll catch you (figuratively, not literally) at the Glen next month. Matt - I wish I had known you were there, I would have recruited you for the packing crew :P .

Catch22
06-26-2006, 03:25 PM
Along the SM/Protest lines, I gotta share this...

Early last year at a SARRC (sprint) at Road Atlanta, one SM driver managed to do the following in one weekend...
- Hit me, under double yellow, during qualifying.
- Spin in the middle of turn 1 on the start.
- Turn an ITB car into the front straight wall on lap 2 as he tried to force his way back by from the back.
- He finally managed to crash his own car and take himself out of the endurance race on Sunday.

When I spoke with a steward about taking action, I was told "Oh, we already got alot of stuff on that guy." so having better things to do I decided to let it go.
Guess what... He was right there on grid for the next race.
I don't know if he ever got his pee pee spanked in any sort of way, but it certainly didn't seem that the penalty had any real meat to it.

The guys up front in SM tend to be pretty good. And the guys in the back tend to realize they aren't all that fast and are very courteous. In my experience, the vast majority of the asshats are in the middle. Guys that don't quite have the talent to get to the front, but try really really hard to get there anyway. Its no coincidence that you hear ITB and ITC guys HATING SM drivers because its these mid pack guys that they always have to deal with and usually get hit by.
I spent a couple of years watching these idiots not be able to cleanly get by me in my ITC car. I know of what Greg speaks, and its not any fun to be that frontrunner in ITB/C surrounded by the idiots in P18 through 25 in SM.

One of our divisions faster SM drivers had to start at the back of a big Road Atlanta race last year due to issues in qualifying. After the race his comment was something like "Man, it IS horrible back there."

mgyip
06-26-2006, 03:49 PM
When I spoke with a steward about taking action, I was told "Oh, we already got alot of stuff on that guy." so having better things to do I decided to let it go.
Guess what... He was right there on grid for the next race.
I don't know if he ever got his pee pee spanked in any sort of way, but it certainly didn't seem that the penalty had any real meat to it.[/b]

Given most stewards' attempts to not "play God", your experience goes to show that filing a protest against a true hazard will help to provide the overwhelming evidence necessary for a Steward to go from making a "Well, I've heard alot of complaints" judgement to a "You need to take up a different hobby b/c you clearly don't know how to race" decision. Just b/c we see stupidity as drivers doesn't mean that the Stewards have all the facts at hand - corner reports are important BUT as was evidenced by an appeal that a local ITC driver won last year, in-car footage and clear, definitive FACTS by a driver carry significantly more weight.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

.RJ
06-26-2006, 03:57 PM
(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in.
[/b]

They were pitted right next to us. The guy came speeding into the pits, way too fast, stopped in front of his pit box and immediately got out screaming "i'm gonna kill that muthafuckaaa!!!! where tha fuck is hee!1!!!". Totally unsportsmanlike. Then he stormed off to the enclosed trailer where the rest of his shit is, and threw his helmet and attached HANS from one end of the trailer to the other, into the wall. Good job destroying the equipment that is supposed to save your head, jackass.



As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.
[/b]

Tom, its unfortunate that you had the DNF but the being slow in the pits is a simple observation that you seem to have taken some sort of personal offense to. We were pitted about 10 pit boxes down and kept an eye on your pit stops, as well as all the other ITA cars.

Your fueling was fine, with the stock fuel tank you cant do much to make up time really - with a dry break we were getting 22 gallons in in under 40 seconds, so that helps alot. What I noticed most was the tire changes, there just wasnt any coordination between the team members and they were just off the pace - there seemed to be poor communication among the team, and the guys were a bit clumsy getting the wheels back on - and the car falling off the jack and breaking lugnuts is really the result of not practicing your pit stops.

Take it as constructive criticism to improve for next year I suppose.

Catch22
06-26-2006, 04:32 PM
Those weren't "his guys" doing slow tire changes and dropping the car RJ.
Just thought I'd save Blaney the typing. I know the answers by heart after a few years of it.

mgyip
06-26-2006, 04:44 PM
They were pitted right next to us. The guy came speeding into the pits, way too fast, stopped in front of his pit box and immediately got out screaming "i'm gonna kill that muthafuckaaa!!!! where tha fuck is hee!1!!!". Totally unsportsmanlike. Then he stormed off to the enclosed trailer where the rest of his shit is, and threw his helmet and attached HANS from one end of the trailer to the other, into the wall. Good job destroying the equipment that is supposed to save your head, jackass.[/b]

It never ceases to amaze me that some idiot goes spinning off the track and gets collected by a hapless bystander at which time it becomes THE BYSTANDER'S FAULT that the spinning car was damaged. Hello? If the car hadn't spun off the track, it would have NEVER been collected. Too bad the stewards didn't see his display of sportsmanship. A few years ago, some driver threw his helmet on the ground after an incident and this was witnessed by the corner station. To almost quote the Steward "Please have Tech examine his helmet very carefully for damage". I get the impression that Mr. Rocket Scientist not only got to repair his damaged racecar (damaged by his own stupidity) but that he also got to purchase a new helmet for his troubles. :bash_1_:

Speaking of speeding in the pits - I think the DC Region needs to purchase a Radar Gun (are you listening Lauren?). The Gun should be on a Pit marshall who should use it indiscriminately up and down the pit lane. This is what Grand Am does and it works - cars enter the pits at 45 mph and stick to that speed, period, end of discussion. All the talk of "This is amateur racing" doesn't cut it b/c regardless of the event, when a speeding car meets an unprotected human, the results are the same - SPLAT.

JohnRW
06-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Maybe I have a skewed perception (two-driver team that's done every SP12...so that means I've been out there for 50% of all the SP12 racing), but it was a pretty clean race. This was our fourteenth (?) 12-ish hour race, and IMO it was pretty tame compared to the rest.

Yeah...I had a ring-side seat for Greg's Lap 8 mash, and it was a pretty stupid move by the aforementioned Miata (I went far enough to the outside to miss the wreck), but I didn't really see anything else that I'd describe as "egregiously stupid" out there. Some "oh boy, that's not smart" stuff, but not any "what a dumbazz fvckwitz" moves. Even "Stupid Hour" (11PM to midnight) was pretty clean, compared to previous years.

As usual, the biggest problems were from people 'racing' against cars in another class. Kiddies...by the 3 or 4 hour mark, if you're not leading overall, you're most likely battling for class position. In the daylight, I know what classes are in front of me and behind me on track 'cuz I can see them...and at night I can tell by how fast the headlights climb on me whether it's a fast car...and I don't "race" cars in other classes. A little courtesy goes a long way.

The overall winners (Wilson and Armstrong in the ITS RX7) were spectacular in managing traffic and running a clean and sportsman-like race.

It's also nice to see a real IT car take the overall win, rather than some tarted-up $100K+ racer that shows up to beat up on guys with $7000 club cars. I always wanted to 'door' that Ferrari or the whizbang 99-something Porsche that showed up in previous years....just one big door donut...please...

Edwin Robinson
06-26-2006, 07:15 PM
Maybe I have a skewed perception (two-driver team that's done every SP12...so that means I've been out there for 50% of all the SP12 racing), but it was a pretty clean race. This was our fourteenth (?) 12-ish hour race, and IMO it was pretty tame compared to the rest.

[/b]

Amen. I also felt it was one of the cleanest events ever.

A big kudos to the stewards and workers that did (what I feel) was an incredible job of keeping the event green-flag as much as humanly possible.

I believe our car was 'nearly' incindent free and non-incindent-causing for 12 hours.
We only have one donut on the door- and well, the driver tells me it was a Miata- but honestly, if I didn't EXPECT this stuff to happen (and maybe much worse) then I'd just give up the sport entirely. I know I'm not perfect - no one else is either. I just don't go looking for trouble on purpose. Human error is to be expected on occasion.

To the competitors I saw in the other classes : Thank you for the deference that you extended our team during the 12 Hours. I hope we were able to return the favor for you when it made sense.

To our fellow competitors in ITA - thanks for a great race! Win or lose, it was great to have such good competition. I look forward to doing it again next year, and hope you do too.

Edwin Robinson.
#84 ITA

DanElam
06-26-2006, 08:10 PM
...Grand Am Cup proactively is telling drivers to "cease and desist" or in the case of a certain CTS-V driver, to go home and never disgrace VIR again.
[/b]

I'm usually just a lurker, but I thought I would weigh in on this one. The VIR CTS-V driver happens to be a multiple National championship winner and a guy I have raced against before. I was crewing for a different team at the VIR Cup race when the CTS and BMW came together. While the Caddy certainly got hung out to dry to Speed, it wasn't quite that clear cut. The Caddy driver had gotten caught by the pace car for the full course yellow and ended up as the first car behind the pace car - but ahead of the leader. He made his jump trying to avoid going a lap down and was in front of the BMW when the cars made contact. Obviously no one likes contact or wants to take out the leader, but the BMW could have *easily* backed out of a turn he didn't have and (moreover) didn't need to win when the VIR straight is just seconds away. Part of winning races is knowing when to push and when not to. With all the rain and the cautions it was important to try to not go a lap down because you might easily get caught back up. He didn't drive into the BMW - he kept coming across the track on his line through the corner. Beat him up for driving a car a bit bigger than he might have been used to, but the guy has a long track record of beating professional drivers and racing clean. As an FYI, he was back at Lime Rock and Mid Ohio running the car.

Switching gears, what happened with the ITE 'inspection' that was supposed to happen. Did any of the ITE cars get inspected or DQ'd? What happened to the Porsche?

Tom Blaney
06-26-2006, 08:18 PM
Those weren't "his guys" doing slow tire changes and dropping the car RJ.
Just thought I'd save Blaney the typing. I know the answers by heart after a few years of it.
[/b]


Sorry pal, they "Are my guys" and I am quite proud of them, they did a steller job compared to "Your Crew" -- Oh oh no wait you DIDN'T have a Steller Crew there, in fact were you even in a car at some point in that 12 hour period.

Your dribble becomes you and now it's just :dead_horse:

.RJ I agree that we had some issues, but I don't think anyone did as bad as you suggest, and based on the issues we had to solve, I don't think any other team would have done much different. But thanks for your positive comments.

Tom Blaney

.RJ
06-26-2006, 08:58 PM
.RJ I agree that we had some issues, but I don't think anyone did as bad as you suggest, and based on the issues we had to solve, I don't think any other team would have done much different. But thanks for your positive comments.

Tom Blaney
[/b]

Well, practice, practice, practice. Thats all I can say. We timed your first stop at over 3.5 minutes. You just lost a lap.... everything counts, its a LONG race. Our team was testing thursday, practicing pit stops, refueling, etc... same thing on friday... and on saturday morning practice, instead of running around the racetrack, we practiced pit stops with a hot/live track.

Gregg
06-26-2006, 09:13 PM
While we're thanking everybody, Turn 1 Motorsports and I would like to give the biggest possible :023: to the guys at Carbotech, especially Dan Puskar.

Here's the story...a few weeks ago we ordered almost $1000 in pads for five ITC CRX's and Civics. Carbotech shipped them out and they showed up on the Saturday of MARRS 4. The drivers did their best to conserve well worn pads during Sat. qualifying while waiting for them to arrive. Well, on Sunday AM the drivers go out for hardship practice to bed in pads and all report that something is very wrong w/ the pads. Turns out they're auto-x/mild track pads (I guess Bobcats?). New pads out, what remains of the old pads back in, and one of the drivers wins a tough five car, nose-to-tail battle for the win.

So, pads back to CT and they promise to send something out to us that should easily cover the entire 12hr distance. Some mishaps in shipping occur, but when they finally ship UPS fails to deliver as promised on Friday, leaving us w/ five sets of very marginal pads for a 12hr race.

While most of the team thrashed on replacing the motor and doing other final prep for Saturday, I manned the phones and attempted to find out from CT what was going on...all at 7pm on Friday. So I finally get ahold of Daniel who gives me the rundown on UPS's many screwups and tells me that he has two sets left and that he's getting in the car so that he can meet me at Summit at 8:30am. In other words, he's driving from Charlotte to get us the pads. :happy204: :OLA:

To be honest, we thought the UPS story was a crock and that the pads never went out.

So there's Dan at 8:30 as promised. Heck, he beat the race car to the track. We get him in as crew and he sees 1st-hand how woefully tired and unprepared we are. Anyways, he helps us out through the morning and it was much appreciated.

Well, let me report that UPS today delivered the pads that were guaranteed for 10am Friday delivery. We at Turn 1 hearby apologize to everyone at CT and applaud their AMAZING dedication and support. :023: :023: :023: I can only wish we that we were as on the ball on Saturday as Dan and Carbotech.

Thanks again and next time, bring those stickers!

16v
06-26-2006, 09:29 PM
I did manage to squeeze off a few pix before our race ended.

http://the16v.com/SCCA/

theracinglawyer
06-26-2006, 11:34 PM
]
Because I saw the smart ass remark from Catch 22, regarding our failure let me make it perfectly clear, I ran consistant 29's & 30's for two 1.25 sessions with no mechanical failure, or failures because of the weight change, we were knocked out at 8PM because we had a short in the light bar wire harness that blew the alternator, and we ran out of batteries to replace. We had to replace an upright because we dropped the car down from a tire change without the lugs tight on one side and we snapped two wheel studs.

But I want to thank all the workers and thanks to all of the drivers out there who were gentlemen and gave room to me and other faster cars in the race. The miata guys were much less aggressive to us faster cars and in return many got good tows and passing opportunities.

Thanks again to the group and we had quite a few laughs and great teamwork.

Tom Blaney

Tom why do you bow down to them, we all tried our best, luck in life as in racing plays a part, heck a team mate of ours took our other car out of the race with 55 minutes to go and we may have been able to win in ITA, we were only a few seconds back. We did the same thing at the Pocono Enduro. Some of the guys were disappointed, but then it may not have been meant to be.

theracinglawyer
06-26-2006, 11:49 PM
Let's start with the positive: as anyone that has been a part of, or around, this team can attest, this is a fantastic group of people with which to be associated. Jeff put it quite well and succinctly during our drive home yesterday: if it was anyone else, we'd probably not be doing it near as often (or at all). I cannot say enough for this team and its protagonists. Cheers to you guys!

As for "The Lap Eight Incident", well, how do I put this delicately without starting a major pissing match? I really can't. Bottom line, as a generalized group of people the Spec Miata drivers drive like total asshats. There, I said it, let the war begin.

Here's a sanitized, edited version of The Event I sent to a friend via email:

The Spec Miatas were all driving like . Dive bombing, stupid low-percentage passes, passing in areas guaranteed to slow down both parties unless the passee drove off the road. Very selfish, me-me-me, gotta-get-this-done-right-now-or-we're-gonna-die type of driving. Even the low-key drivers of the team were getting hacked off by these [idiots].

And this was on the opening laps.

I took the green flag stint, starting 43rd of 50 overall, 2nd of 4 (?) in class. The field looked like a Miata convention, comprising (I heard) 36 of the 50 slots. Believe it or not, everyone tippy-toed through T1 with no immediately noticeable results. However, by the start of lap 2 all the Special Me's (and Super-Special Me's and Super-Special-Me's dressed up with ITA and ITS decals) were beating up on each other. ON THE SECOND LAP! And mean literally bumping, hip-checks, [stuff] like that. I quickly passed the leading ITB car and got stuck behind a pack of about 8 or so of these wankers; realizing that there was NO way I was getting through them I laid back about 100 or so feet to let them duke it out and thin out the herd.

Unfortunately, one of the [idiots] caught me off guard and tried a STUPID dive bomb pass on another Miata into a no-braking, all-momentum, full-throttle corner (entering turn 9) and started a classic Miata Melee in front of me. ON LAP EIGHT OF A FREAKIN' 12 HOUR RACE! Dust and cars was flying everywhere and I turned hard outside to intentionally drive off the track. [i]Just as I was about to make it through the mess a black Special Me (the one that may have started this whole thing) backed out of the dust cloud to intercept my line off the track; I tried to turn away but couldn't and hit him square in the rear quarter. DAMMIT!!!

The car started fine (I had locked it up and stalled the engine when I hit the grass) but it was obvious the right-front suspension was bent. I turned the car around, only to see the "driver" of the Special Me out of the car and walking/running towards me. I let him know via hand signals he was Number One and drove towards the track, watching for the corner worker's signals to re-enter, and as I sat there waiting for directions the guy was yelling into the driver's window and banging on the roof! I ignored him and merged back into the flow and went straight into the pits.

(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in. A steward told me "they had a long discussion." The guy never got back on the track and was listed as a DNF with only 8 laps. Classic.)

I made it into the pits, cussing like an unhappy sailor (a pitlane worker near us said she learned a few new words that day - I apologized to the group afterwards). Damage on the Golf wasn't as bad as I feared: the bumper cover was trashed (it got tie-wrapped/taped up), the right front fender was crushed (banged out), fender liner was ripped and worn (removed), the passenger door was bashed (no performance effect), there was a bent tie rod, and a destroyed tire. Cameron and crew replaced the tie rod and tire, quick-aligned the car, and I was on my way. I had to come in once more for an alignment check (slightly toed-in) and once it was all said and done we had lost 19 laps - about 26 minutes - for the repairs, but the car felt fine. In fact, I ripped off a couple of near-qualifying times and kept going (Jeff later beat those times - and set fastest team race lap - in his stint).

At that point I decided since I had already bought a fender, door, and bumper cover I was going to knock every G-D SM off the track I could find ("they should all pay for sins of the family" is how I think I put it), but instead I behaved...

The rest of the day went swimmingly, with nary a major concern, except for long-term continuation of the afore-mentioned Stupid Miata Tricks. You would not believe some of the selfish, short-term thinking of these guys, sticking their little noses into places that made no sense, either strategically or tactically. The attitude is pretty much "I'm faster, it's your responsibility to get out of my way!" Funny part is, on rare occasion (and I do mean rare) you'd have one of those experienced drivers that understood what it meant to work traffic, to strategic "plan" a pass such to maximize relative traits and to minimize time loss to both parties involved. When you saw those guys you'd work with them and probably only tie them up - at most - 1/2 second. Then you've got the Terrible Two's drivers trying to barge in and hip check a Golf in the carousel. Interesting enough, you'd be surprised at how slow and wide a Golf gets through there...as one other drive put it, "hey, Chief, you're slowing me down? Then we're BOTH slowing down!" and they'd lose AT LEAST 2 seconds on that lap, plus whatever momentum they lost on the subsequent lap. The really funny part? They'd do the SAME G-D THING next time by! Amazing, simply awe-inspiring.

We finished the race second place in class -- 18 laps down. To say I'm ripped with both "them" and myself for letting it happen is an understatement. But, I'm proud of the job the guys did to get us back online and I'm proud what we did for the rest of the race.

Here's the ironic kicker: in July '04 I rented the Flatout #00 for the Pro Spec Miata race at LRP. I started near the back of the pack (it was my first time in a SM) and ended up t-boning a guy that was driving like an [idiot] and spun. Guess what sponsor decal was on the rear window of the car I tagged on Lap Eight? You guess it: same one. I gotta wonder if - up until reading this post - the guy knew I'm the same person? If it was the same driver, I refer you back to my posts on SM.com just after that July 2004 event. It's obvious nothing's changed in two years...

Karma's a pisser (thanks Christine), ain't it?

I hate Spec Miatas.
[/b]

Don't hate us all. Some SM driver were great. I like to think as the driver of car # 39 a SM in ITA form I was as gentlemanly as I could be. Sure there are guys who don't use their heads, but there were a lot who did.We were put out of the race in the 11th hour by a SM who dived bombed our team mate in turn 6 spun him around and caused us to hit our guy and put us out. But for the rest of the great drivers Thanks for a great run. When you get to my age just to run for 11 hours is great. To those who were not that great, hopefully next time you will be, I'm sure.

Bill Miller
06-26-2006, 11:56 PM
Nice shots Doug!

lateapex911
06-27-2006, 12:48 AM
I hope you don't mind Doug....

Amy? Any comments??

Marcus Miller
06-27-2006, 12:49 AM
Great photos!

Sorry to see Pablito banged up :(

I guess that's racing. :bash_1_:

Marcus

Greg Amy
06-27-2006, 06:57 AM
Amy? Any comments??[/b]

I plead the fifth ammendment to the Constitution of the United States...

JLawton
06-27-2006, 07:08 AM
Don't hate us all. Some SM driver were great. I like to think as the driver of car # 39 a SM in ITA form I was as gentlemanly as I could be. Sure there are guys who don't use their heads, but there were a lot who did.We were put out of the race in the 11th hour by a SM who dived bombed our team mate in turn 6 spun him around and caused us to hit our guy and put us out. But for the rest of the great drivers Thanks for a great run. When you get to my age just to run for 11 hours is great. To those who were not that great, hopefully next time you will be, I'm sure.
[/b]


Being a teammate of Greg's, I lean towards his feelings on the Miata's. However, I did comment to him and several others about watching your car (not sure who was driving) nicely four wheel drift through the Carousel in both the dry and the wet in Friday's practice. Fun to watch........

I agree with one of the above posts. I think it was mostley the midpackers that were the problem. The faster Miatas would just wait until the next straight if they couldn't pull off a clean pass. The other problem is that we were in one of the slowest classes out there, although under braking and in the faster corners we could hang with anyone.

Doug,
Nice to finally meet you in person. From the look of the pics, pitting with you guys had its perks!!
You think the picture of Greg holding the panties was funny, you should have seen him while he was wearing them over his driving suit!! :blink: Then, trying to get them off in the hot pits after his stint so that the hundred plus people in the pits wouldn't see him!! We finally determine that public humiliation makes him drive faster!! :lol:

16v
06-27-2006, 10:29 AM
Doug,
Nice to finally meet you in person. From the look of the pics, pitting with you guys had its perks!!
You think the picture of Greg holding the panties was funny, you should have seen him while he was wearing them over his driving suit!! :blink: Then, trying to get them off in the hot pits after his stint so that the hundred plus people in the pits wouldn't see him!!
[/b]

nice to meet you all as well. I was right there when he got out of the car... problem was he already ripped his panties off. He must have known the spy photographer was waiting in the shadows

Conover
06-27-2006, 10:38 AM
Great pictures! That fender looks so much better straight! :P

I had a great time working with everyone, It's always a blast to do the enduro's. Glad to be a part of the team.
I'd like to Thank Bill, and Lee for the great help getting the car back out after the little bump on Lap 8. I think we can be pretty happy to have taken another checker and only be 18 laps down after bending a tie rod and crunching the airbox!
Also Evan, Spencer, Cathy, and Collins, thanks for all your help, Fueling the crew, and the car!

Greg, Jeff, Phil, and Kirk did a great job keeping the car on pace and making my stickers look good out there!
Hopefully we will get another chance to race that 28 car, maybe VIR or Summit enduros to come, that was shaping up to be a great competition.
:lol: Captain Panties :lol:

Greg Amy
06-27-2006, 10:53 AM
One of these days I'll learn to keep my mouth shut...

lateapex911
06-27-2006, 11:33 AM
One of these days I'll learn to keep my mouth shut...
[/b]

Really??

Might there be a possibility of a wager involved??

;)

Screw IT
06-27-2006, 12:04 PM
Well well, who would of figured that is was Greg Amy that ran into me! I agree with you Greg that in life karma has to do with alot. First, as far as getting all up in your sh-t on the track in turn 9, I am truly very sorry. At the time I thought it was you who originaly pushed me off the track and I found out later that it was another miata "Heman". Second don't misinterperit my username b/c it is the name of my boat and has nothing to do with Improved Touring. Third, as far as what happened in the pits with stewards and other pit crew I am sure you can understand how pissed off we were to be taken out of the race after only 8 laps. For just the entry alone thats a $100 per lap and about a $3000 weekend for the whole race.

I can tell you that I was tring trying to be as conservative as it is possible on a race track. I was intentionally driving at 8 or 9 tenths and letting things calm down. This is hard to do and after getting punted by one of my own JACKASS SMer's I get smashed by Greg. Well my opinion is that the whole deal was shit ass racin and I was shocked at the aggressiveness of the people driving for a 12 hour race. I got into SCCA "CLUB" racing b/c it is supposed to be a gentlemens sport. Its not freakin NASCAR. Most of you IT guys get this but I have seen some pretty good wrecks in the IT races as well. Nobody is perfect certainly not Greg or I! I think most of the people out there racing right now have zero respect for each other. As far as the SCCA goes I wish there would be stiffer penalties for any metal to metal contact. If you have any contact with another car you pack up and your weekend is done!

Lastly, I dont care what people think and I would not even have made this post except for the irony that I just saw that Greg was the one who hit me!

Jay Blake

Andy Bettencourt
06-27-2006, 12:07 PM
Like Bill, edited due to corrected reference post.

Greg Amy
06-27-2006, 12:11 PM
Might there be a possibility of a wager involved?? ;) [/b]

Uuuhhh, no.


...I would not even have made this post except for the irony that I just saw that Greg was the one who hit me![/b]

It's a small world, my friend...

jjjanos
06-27-2006, 12:35 PM
Switching gears, what happened with the ITE 'inspection' that was supposed to happen. Did any of the ITE cars get inspected or DQ'd? What happened to the Porsche?
[/b]

I believe that officials made it be known to certain entries that cars would be checked to ensure that they were legal ITE cars under the DC Region rules.

re: carnage -
After the motor died on the Smurf Honda, we packed up and watched at T8 around the 6PM mark. We noticed that there were very few "special mes" and "super special mes" that did not have another car's paint on them. We also saw alot of questionable driving.

After the rabbit-induced FCY, a car pulled off at driver's left going up the hill towards the bridge. If I'd have been flagging at 8 or 9, I'd have asked for a FCY because the field was overdriving the incident. Most cars were going through the incident as fast as before the local yellow.

JamesB
06-27-2006, 12:40 PM
I believe that officials made it be known to certain entries that cars would be checked to ensure that they were legal ITE cars under the DC Region rules.

re: carnage -
After the motor died on the Smurf Honda, we packed up and watched at T8 around the 6PM mark. We noticed that there were very few "special mes" and "super special mes" that did not have another car's paint on them. We also saw alot of questionable driving.

After the rabbit-induced FCY, a car pulled off at driver's left going up the hill towards the bridge. If I'd have been flagging at 8 or 9, I'd have asked for a FCY because the field was overdriving the incident. Most cars were going through the incident as fast as before the local yellow.
[/b]


When I asked about ITE at the end (I heard the same thing you did, I was told send them home with the rest of the pack.) This was after we pulled all the cars for impound from the field.

The FCY for the car off drivers left for station 9 was a car fire and they wanted everyone slowed down for the amount of equipment that was going out there to handle the situation. I think it was a proper call given that the corner workers extinquisher was not enough to put it out and the fire truck was on the way.

Bill Miller
06-27-2006, 12:50 PM
edited due to a correction of the referenced post

JamesB
06-27-2006, 12:53 PM
Lastly, I dont care what people think and I would not even have made this post except for the irony that I just saw that Greg was the one who hit me!

Jay Blake
[/b]


Bill and Andy, it IS signed. please reread original post.

.RJ
06-27-2006, 01:02 PM
Third, as far as what happened in the pits with stewards and other pit crew I am sure you can understand how pissed off we were [/b]


it is supposed to be a gentlemens sport. [/b]

There's plenty of wives, girlfriends, and children around the pits and paddock - If its supposed to be a gentleman's sport, then act like one in the paddock as well as on the track.

Your outburst after getting out of the car made you and your whole team look entirely unprofessional.

Screw IT
06-27-2006, 01:19 PM
.RJ, I agree and I apologize to any of whom was offended. However, we were completely fed up with the actions on the track and after being punted on lap 8 of a 450 lap race I was extremely frustrated. After we had time to cool off I went and talked with the cheif steward and much was discussed. He understood how disgusted we felt. No protest was filed against the other miata driver and I was repimanded for driving back to the pits without my belts. ( most of the way on the grass, but still wrong )

I still say there should be some penalty for metal to metal contact. That would make us all think alot more.

Jay Blake

Andy Bettencourt
06-27-2006, 02:16 PM
Bill and Andy, it IS signed. please reread original post.
[/b]

Only because he edited it. Thanks.

JoelG
06-27-2006, 02:40 PM
The FCY for the car off drivers left for station 9 was a car fire and they wanted everyone slowed down for the amount of equipment that was going out there to handle the situation. I think it was a proper call given that the corner workers extinquisher was not enough to put it out and the fire truck was on the way.
[/b]

IIRC there was a wreck between station 8 and 9 after it got dark that there was no FCY for. IMO many drivers were overdriving the situation there. I was PUY at least twice there. How anyone could miss the caution is beyond me, what with the yellow light at 8 and all the flashing lights at the incident itself

jjjanos
06-27-2006, 04:38 PM
The FCY for the car off drivers left for station 9 was a car fire and they wanted everyone slowed down for the amount of equipment that was going out there to handle the situation. I think it was a proper call given that the corner workers extinquisher was not enough to put it out and the fire truck was on the way.
[/b]

Different incident. This one was a rope tow, but nobody lifted while the car was there alone or while the tow vehicle was at the scene. They handled it under a local yellow. We had 3 flaggers sitting in the stand and all 3 thought the drivers weren't showing proper deference to the situation.



IIRC there was a wreck between station 8 and 9 after it got dark that there was no FCY for. IMO many drivers were overdriving the situation there. I was PUY at least twice there. [/b]

In prior years (and probably this one too), the cornerworkers have a difficult or impossible time spotting numbers on cars that do a PUY once it goes full night. The reflective number balls help in some places, but in other places you just don't get to see numbers. Many drivers take advantage of this.

Conover
06-27-2006, 04:56 PM
Ya'll should have some of those big ass deer spotter spotlights! just beam them. OK, now you can really tell where I'm from huh?

Catch22
06-27-2006, 04:58 PM
I think we expect too much of our fellow man.
Long enduros require thinking, strategy, practice and teamwork. How many of those teams out there actually did all of that instead of just "show up and go" ?????
I'm betting the answer is "not very many."

I can attest to the organization of Kirk's team as I have driven with them (and won BTW) in a VIR 13 hour. We won not because we were the fastest car (actually we were one of the slowest) but because we had a plan, we practiced and planned our pit stops, and all drivers and crew worked together as a team and stuck to that plan. As other cars crashed and fell out of the race due to mechanicals... We kept turtling on carrying a predetermined pace and scheduled stops. We won by multiple laps.
BUT...
That didn't keep some jackass from slamming into my door in turn 1 on LAP NUMBER 2!!!
I actually could tell by his "body language" that he was going to do it, so I left the inside wide open for him. He hit me anyway. He then went on to crash another car and then himself out of the race within the next two laps. We were at maybe the 7 minute mark of a 13 hour race.
BRILLIANT!!!

I also got punted off track on LAP TWO of the ARRC 3 hour enduro 2 years ago. It really wasn't the punter's fault though, it was the 3 SMs in front of me trying to go 3 wide in turn 5 that caused everyone to go into "oh shit" mode. I got the worst of it and got sort of stuck in the gravel trap. I was DFL (from pole in class) when I got out.
Just to make sure you got that... 3 WIDE on lap 2 of a 3 hour race.

Some people just have no clue how to race and survive in a long race, and its a real pisser when those who DO know what they are doing get innocently tangled up in someone elses stupidity.

I hate it, but it doesn't surprise me anymore. Unfortunately it meets my expectations.

gprodracer
06-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Greg,
Ooops! Greg, this was a response to your post from yesterday..didn't read the next page.. It still applies tho!
Tell us how you really feel, and this time don't hold back, OK? I have to echo your sentiments, but remember, all SM's are just driving in that class until their F1 rides open up... My family ran the ITC car @ Summit two years ago (long ass haul from Palm Bay, FL) with pretty much the same scenario.. dive bombing in hordes in the 1st hour like it was the 12th, and for position overall.... I had to laugh when I read that you got the "all Miatas must die!!!" attitude... I had to have my brother (it was his car!) talk me down, I started because I was the "calm one who has the most enduro experience, and can get us some good track position until things settled down". Its's sad really, as there are about 7 or 8 down here that are really good drivers... it's the other 60 or so that ruin it for the rest! :018:
Congrats on your teams finish! Reading your review gets me fired up, :cavallo: and I'm calling my brother tonight to see if he is up for attempting another podium @ next years 12 hour.
On that note, congrats to all on surviving another one. :happy204: It is a blast that everyone should experience once :D

Mark P Larson
CFR #164010

Knestis
06-27-2006, 10:26 PM
Different incident. This one was a rope tow, but nobody lifted while the car was there alone or while the tow vehicle was at the scene. ...[/b]

Not true. You would have heard the Golf going "bap, bap, bap" off-throttle from before the apex of of the right onto the uphill, then even throttle past the accident. I didnt' get PUY'd but I sure got CUY'd - caught under yellow.

K

Thorshammer
06-27-2006, 11:12 PM
My first post to this site. Normally, I am over on the Prod site, but here goes.


I was a co-driver with Mike Levin, and Ramsey Potts in the only Porsche entry. During my stint we suffered a rod bearing failure and packed it in, about hour 5. Many thanks to Neil, Jim and the crew in their efforts to field this car. The chassis was good, but we needed a little bit more motor, maybe at the VIR 13, We'll see.

Regarding Brian Mushnick, glad he was alright, and a great roll cage did it's job.

Spec Miatas: I did'nt have a single problem with a single Miata at any time. I was balked by a couple guys that could'nt figure out when to let others by. I also did some unintentional balking of my own. I think the single biggest thing we all need to think about is this: In sprint racing, the cream will rise to the top. You will rarely win the sprint race in the first couple laps, in endurance racing, you don't win in the first 8-10. You can either turn the lap times, or you can't. Certainly fuel mileage, proper stops, luck and some great decision making will get you to the front and keep you there. It also helps to have a great car.

Hope to be racing at the 13 hour.

Erik Madsen

Bill Miller
06-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Erik,

Were you in the ITE 911 or the ITS 944?

16v
06-28-2006, 02:42 AM
944

JLawton
06-28-2006, 07:07 AM
My first post to this site. Normally, I am over on the Prod site, but here goes.
I was a co-driver with Mike Levin, and Ramsey Potts in the only Porsche entry. During my stint we suffered a rod bearing failure and packed it in, about hour 5. Many thanks to Neil, Jim and the crew in their efforts to field this car. The chassis was good, but we needed a little bit more motor, maybe at the VIR 13, We'll see.

Regarding Brian Mushnick, glad he was alright, and a great roll cage did it's job.

Spec Miatas: I did'nt have a single problem with a single Miata at any time. I was balked by a couple guys that could'nt figure out when to let others by. I also did some unintentional balking of my own. I think the single biggest thing we all need to think about is this: In sprint racing, the cream will rise to the top. You will rarely win the sprint race in the first couple laps, in endurance racing, you don't win in the first 8-10. You can either turn the lap times, or you can't. Certainly fuel mileage, proper stops, luck and some great decision making will get you to the front and keep you there. It also helps to have a great car.

Hope to be racing at the 13 hour.

Erik Madsen
[/b]

I know I screwed you guys up on the re-start of a full course yellow. I was right behind you coming out of nine when I go the call the green was thrown. It was obvious I heard it before your car because I had the decision of either lifting (and letting a zillion Miatas fly by) or try to get around you (yeah, right :lol: ). I made the wrong decision in trying to go around and ended up going two wide through ten....Killed both our momentum.......Sorry about that!

You guys were one of the smart, faster cars. Being patient and waiting until the next straight....... We appreciated that!! :023:

Greg Amy
06-28-2006, 02:54 PM
The things that Mushnick will do to get worldwide press coverage...

http://www.gazzetta.it/Rubriche/Foto_Giorn...incidente.shtml (http://www.gazzetta.it/Rubriche/Foto_Giorno/2006/06_Giugno/25/incidente.shtml)

JeffYoung
06-28-2006, 03:37 PM
Kirk, sorry to hear Pablo Dos got hurt. I assume it is fixable? That is a GREAT looking car by the way.

Greg, I met a young guy here in Raleigh who has a shell SE-R (1st Gen) and SR20DE. He is building an auto-x car, and wants to eventually run IT.

Would you mind me sending him your e-mail? He had some questions about the car and setup. I told him you guys were the worldwide leading authority on racing SE-Rs and NX200s, and which I said about 10% jokingly and 90% serious. If so, could you PM me your e-mail addy?

Thanks a bunch.

Knestis
06-28-2006, 03:39 PM
Getting on the AP wire will do that for you.

I put up a website back in 2000, documenting stories of the monster that is reputed to live in Flathead Lake, MT. The local stringer put it on the wire and it got picked up by (among others) morning radio shows across the US.

K

PS to Jeff - yup, fixable. We acutually got very lucky in terms of where we took the hit. Greg skillfully missed the important stuff under the fender by about a centimeter. :)

Greg Amy
06-28-2006, 04:13 PM
...could you PM me your e-mail addy?
[/b]
No problem: grega03 at pobox (your momma) com



...Greg skillfully missed the important stuff under the fender by about a centimeter. :)[/b]
If he had been TRULY skillfull, he would have missed it by another foot... ;)

Conover
06-28-2006, 05:42 PM
The things that Mushnick will do to get worldwide press coverage...

http://www.gazzetta.it/Rubriche/Foto_Giorn...incidente.shtml (http://www.gazzetta.it/Rubriche/Foto_Giorno/2006/06_Giugno/25/incidente.shtml)
[/b]

You could tell he was gunning for air from the get-go. His splitter was set for LIFT!
:P :o

Glad that you came out of it without harm! That is the important part! Any plans for the next IT car??

Thorshammer
06-28-2006, 10:06 PM
ah yes, the 911 ITE car, I forgot.

Decent on the restart, no worries. Got by a few when I got the green, green, green on the radio. Good things those radios. But I like to talk on them too much.

I was in the 944. Hence rod bearing failure. First time to Summit. interesting layout, I will go next year in my EP car, should be a blast. BTW, anyone got 16v photos, they are good.


Erik

JLawton
06-29-2006, 07:03 AM
The discussion on the other thread about Brian's big roll brings up another question. When we were talking to him after, he mentioned how surprised he was that no one came out to help him. The workers stood on the berm and yelled to him. That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?

Knestis
06-29-2006, 08:08 AM
Sorry - on yet another topic, maybe someone up SP/DCR way can talk the powers-that-be into uploading the results to mylaps.com - James, Matt, Dave, et al.? It's so amazingly useful to review that data after a long one...
K

timelapseracing
06-29-2006, 08:42 AM
That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?
[/b]


It is SOP to not place yourself in a situation where you will be in mortal danger as a flagger. Most/all of the flaggers know that where that car was sitting is in the normal area where cars go when they run through 10 a little fast or get a little wide. Each situation is assesed by the responding worker at that time. I was on my dinner break from working turn 3 at the time of the roll and saw the end of the response from the pits. I'm glad that he is ok, I'm pretty sure the worker didn't come right away because the driver was extricating himself, and the car was in an area which has a very high probability of having an additional impact until traffic gets slowed down. I'm sure that if he wasn't moving so well, or if there were signs of fire, the workers would have been there much faster, even with the car in that location.

By the way, you all did a fine job through turn 3 all day. Some creative lines necessitated by some slow moving traffic or by too many cars in one place, but congrats on not getting stuck in our gravel pit. We only had 4 flaggers for the turn for the whole race.

Can't wait for the next MARRS when I can see if watching 12 hours of turn-ins, apexes, and trackouts will improve my speed through 3.


Jason

JamesB
06-29-2006, 09:10 AM
Kirk - Mylaps is not going to happen. Thats why offtotheraces.net was started. Even thought they use the latest software to collect the data, they use a DOS program to format the official results and I dont see it changing anytime soon.

As already stated, the SOP is to asses the situation but not put yourself in dangers way. Had the car been on fire or other issues I am sure the corner worker would have approched the car.

mgyip
06-29-2006, 09:21 AM
Sorry - on yet another topic, maybe someone up SP/DCR way can talk the powers-that-be into uploading the results to mylaps.com - James, Matt, Dave, et al.? It's so amazingly useful to review that data after a long one...[/b]

This issue has been raised with WDCR T&S in the past but MyLaps doesn't provide proper reporting to National according to our T&S Chief who (as James points out) prefers a DOS-based program b/c it meets the "letter of the law". This is the same reason why they resisted Orbitz and Chronx b/c neither program properly recorded data according to the GCR.

I wonder if this is an GCR oversight (outdated language that has not been changed) or if every other region is using an "illegal" T&S system. It would be interesting to protest EVERY SCCA REGION except WDCR b/c their results aren't in the proper format - can you imagine the firestorm? :ph34r:



Can't wait for the next MARRS when I can see if watching 12 hours of turn-ins, apexes, and trackouts will improve my speed through 3.[/b]

Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style" :eclipsee_steering:

timelapseracing
06-29-2006, 09:33 AM
Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style" :eclipsee_steering:
[/b]


- I think the F&C folks thought it was funny to put me at 3 since at MARRS 1 I spun in qual 1, and parked in the gravel needing a tow in qual 2. - They have a good sense of humor. -

- Dori Dori Matt - I just can't get that same crazy FWD angle and pull it off. :happy204:

Jason

Andy Bettencourt
06-29-2006, 09:35 AM
Any hints as to why the MyLaps (read AMB) system doesn't produce the right results?

JamesB
06-29-2006, 09:38 AM
Jason sure you can, switch to a front drive car ;)

I think I will enter M5 since we have the month of August off anyway. Time to get to work I guess.

dickita15
06-29-2006, 09:42 AM
The F&C worker in Brian’s crash had a very long run to get to the scene. While we were watching Brian hoping to see him climb out this guy was hoofing it along the top of the bank. Brian was out and standing by the time the guy got there. As soon as the flagger got close enough he called to Brian to come to him. I am confident that had Brian not immediately started walking to him he would have gone to Brian to assist him.

mgyip
06-29-2006, 09:48 AM
Any hints as to why the MyLaps (read AMB) system doesn't produce the right results?
[/b]

IIRC, it has something to do with a duplicate reporting requirement but it was explained quite some time ago and my memory sucks.

Gregg - Would you be so kind as to have T&S explain why they don't use MyLaps when you're at the next Comp Committee meeting? They've explained it to me in the past but I was busy with iCard and honestly didn't let the information sink in (either that or it has seeped out).

jjjanos
06-29-2006, 09:49 AM
I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this?[/b]


1. Call for the ambulance.
2. Find out from the bank whether the driver is OK.
3. Driver OK? Stay put and wait for ambulance.
4. No answer or driver says he is hurt? Stay put and wait for ambulance.

Unless the car is on fire, putting a flagger down there does nothing except raise the potential danger.

Knestis
06-29-2006, 11:18 AM
If the TS chief wants to use a different app to format the official results for Topeka, that's totally fine but isn't the raw AMB data still available? Isn't it a relatively simple thing to provide it to mylaps.com? What am I missing? Providing a service to entrants is a separate function from meeting the letter of the GCR where reporting is concerned.

K

erlrich
06-29-2006, 11:41 AM
The workers stood on the berm and yelled to him. That does seem a little strange. I realize that he was close to the racing surface but what if he was seriously hurt? How long before they send someone out? What's the SOP for a situation like this? [/b] Dick hit the nail on the head. I was at the pit wall within seconds of the incident, and the first thing I noticed was the corner worker running down the berm from the far corner. The reason that caught my attention was I know that when the corners are fully staffed there is usually a corner worker stationed atop the berm much closer to where Brian's car came to rest (it's actually called station 11). I'm pretty confident that had there been a worker at station 11 he would have been down the hill as soon as the yellow had gone up (I know I would have anyway). But as it turned out the guy from 10 had to do a sprint (carrying a 20 lb. extinguisher btw) from down by the bleachers, and just arrived at the top of the berm as Brian was climbing out of the car.

The only thing I would question about the corner worker's response is the actual placement of the workers. I have only worked F&C a half-dozen times, and so don't profess to be an expert, but I do recall from working 10 that the guy at station 11 usually gets way more business than the guy way back in the corner. I'm sure there was a reason for doing it that way, I'm just not sure I see it.

EV
06-29-2006, 11:47 AM
1. Call for the ambulance.
2. Find out from the bank whether the driver is OK.
3. Driver OK? Stay put and wait for ambulance.
4. No answer or driver says he is hurt? Stay put and wait for ambulance.

Unless the car is on fire, putting a flagger down there does nothing except raise the potential danger.
[/b]
The number one rule is to protect ones own keister...
Rule 2 is to protect any other workers keister...
Rule 3 the driver who you are responding to's keister
Rule 4 all the other drivers keisters..

After that all you have to do is wait 2 laps for the steward to decide to release the safety truck :angry:

If the workers presents at the scene won't add to the safety of the situation, then staying on the bank is the best place for them. When I arrive with the truck, I put 7,000 of metal between me and and the red mist still on track. A flagger doesn't have that option. Even if the driver was knocked out, he is still belted in and surrounded by a roll cage, the corner worker wouldn't be. The worker did just as he/she should have.

I only wish the driver had gotten out on the drivers side not the passenger side...

RSTPerformance
06-29-2006, 12:22 PM
This issue has been raised with WDCR T&S in the past but MyLaps doesn't provide proper reporting to National according to our T&S Chief who (as James points out) prefers a DOS-based program b/c it meets the "letter of the law". This is the same reason why they resisted Orbitz and Chronx b/c neither program properly recorded data according to the GCR.

I wonder if this is an GCR oversight (outdated language that has not been changed) or if every other region is using an "illegal" T&S system. It would be interesting to protest EVERY SCCA REGION except WDCR b/c their results aren't in the proper format - can you imagine the firestorm? :ph34r:
Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style" :eclipsee_steering:
[/b]

I think you are incorrect in your "guess" that every other region uses only the mylaps results format... Try looking at the "official Results" that are posted. Most times they are a completely different format with completely different information on it, and possibly different results.

A results example of another "perfect" region other than WDCR-Summit Point would be Pocono. The Mylaps results showed me in last place, however the "official results" were correct in showing me in second place. That is just one example of a region outside of WDCR that posts/submits correct results, AND has MyLaps results shown for the drivers benefit.

Before you go questioning what other regions are doing maybe you should check into it. I know Summit Point races are suposed to be the best at everything but we (other regions) all do a great job also. -sorry to rant, its not ment to be offensive.



If the TS chief wants to use a different app to format the official results for Topeka, that's totally fine but isn't the raw AMB data still available? Isn't it a relatively simple thing to provide it to mylaps.com? What am I missing? Providing a service to entrants is a separate function from meeting the letter of the GCR where reporting is concerned.

K
[/b]

K- Other regions seem to be going out of thier way to update MyLaps for the drivers without any issues. You might want to contact someone in T&S at WDCR to see why they don't go this for the drivers and maybe they will change thier mind.


On another side note... T&S has come a LONG way over the years thanks to technology. T&S has probably advanced more than ANY other specialty. Some regions/people can learn/adapt quicker than others. IMO a big thank you goes out to ALL regions T&S people for continuing to do an outstanding job and doing the best they can with the every changing technology that is out thier!!! Thanks :)

Raymond "just my thoughts, again not ment to be insulting, just eye opening" Blethen

Greg Amy
06-29-2006, 12:24 PM
I only wish the driver had gotten out on the drivers side not the passenger side...[/b]

There's a heck of a lot more manuevering room on the passenger side of the car. Imagine trying to crawl out of a car, upside down, while having to crawl over/under/through extra rollcage door bars, a racing seat, hanging harnesses, shifter, steering wheel, window net, what else? Conversely, there's this really big and wide open hole just to the other side...

Been there, done that. - GA

BillW
06-29-2006, 12:30 PM
Regarding MyLaps.com... What is the problem again? I know they have uploaded data before, because last years race is there:

2005 SP 12 hr race (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=75397)

Bill

Jeremy Billiel
06-29-2006, 12:40 PM
Brian usually has videos on his site, but I don't see it up. Any chance he posted it somewhere else? I am still trying to figure out what happened since I have not been to summit before.

EV
06-29-2006, 12:49 PM
There's a heck of a lot more manuevering room on the passenger side of the car. Imagine trying to crawl out of a car, upside down, while having to crawl over/under/through extra rollcage door bars, a racing seat, hanging harnesses, shifter, steering wheel, window net, what else? Conversely, there's this really big and wide open hole just to the other side...

Been there, done that. - GA
[/b]



[edited...]I too am glad that Brian Mushnick is ok. He crawled out of the upside down Golf and stood there making the perfect target of himself after the roll. Thankfully nobody collected him while he was greatly exposed.[edited..][/b]
Even Dave agrees

I guess it's just the safety worker in me that wants to keep the car between me and the rest of the track. I have had a car chase me out of a gravel trap once during a hot pull (I gave him back the gravel he placed in my pocket), it's no fun. Brian had his back to traffic and would have never seen the car he was about to become a hood ornament for.

When I mentioned rule #1 above, part of that is to keep something heavy between you and traffic.

Just a suggestion..

JLawton
06-29-2006, 01:16 PM
The number one rule is to protect ones own keister...
Rule 2 is to protect any other workers keister...
Rule 3 the driver who you are responding to's keister
Rule 4 all the other drivers keisters..

After that all you have to do is wait 2 laps for the steward to decide to release the safety truck :angry:

If the workers presents at the scene won't add to the safety of the situation, then staying on the bank is the best place for them. When I arrive with the truck, I put 7,000 of metal between me and and the red mist still on track. A flagger doesn't have that option. Even if the driver was knocked out, he is still belted in and surrounded by a roll cage, the corner worker wouldn't be. The worker did just as he/she should have.

I only wish the driver had gotten out on the drivers side not the passenger side...
[/b]

Thanks for the explinations!! It always good to hear the story from the other side,makes sense!!

I know Brian said he was a "little" disoriented when he got out of the car. My guess is he had no idea which way the car was facing. Of course, the smart a$$ was coherent enough to take a bow and blow kisses!! :lol:




Brian usually has videos on his site, but I don't see it up. Any chance he posted it somewhere else? I am still trying to figure out what happened since I have not been to summit before.
[/b]

Turn ten is a faster corner leading on to the main straight. If you over cook it you go into a sand trap. Brian got a little side ways and being a VW with a high center of gravity...........

JamesB
06-29-2006, 01:17 PM
Brian usually has videos on his site, but I don't see it up. Any chance he posted it somewhere else? I am still trying to figure out what happened since I have not been to summit before.
[/b]


I would have to wonder if he was even running video given the length of the race.

Gregg
06-29-2006, 01:19 PM
Gregg - Would you be so kind as to have T&S explain why they don't use MyLaps when you're at the next Comp Committee meeting? They've explained it to me in the past but I was busy with iCard and honestly didn't let the information sink in (either that or it has seeped out).
[/b]
Our meeting for tonight got postponed due to the need for extra pontoon boats. I will be sure to raise the question once again, as I didn't feel I got an adequate answer from the T&S queen at last year's open comp. meeting. At that time I found it quite odd that they could upload the date for MyLaps for the 12hr and not anything else. Besides, the "time cards" on T&S's non-affiliated, home-grown website (http://www.offtotheraces.net) are posted in a horrible format.

JamesB
06-29-2006, 01:32 PM
Gregg, I am glad I will not be a fly on the wall for that answer. I would likely drop myself on the head many times.

16v
06-29-2006, 01:48 PM
Brian usually has videos on his site, but I don't see it up. Any chance he posted it somewhere else? I am still trying to figure out what happened since I have not been to summit before.
[/b]

with so much going on prior to the race I didn't install the camera. Even if it were in there, the tape would have run out at the two hour mark. The incident took place about 2:50 after the driver change stop.

RSTPerformance
06-29-2006, 02:14 PM
Our meeting for tonight got postponed due to the need for extra pontoon boats. I will be sure to raise the question once again, as I didn't feel I got an adequate answer from the T&S queen at last year's open comp. meeting. At that time I found it quite odd that they could upload the date for MyLaps for the 12hr and not anything else. Besides, the "time cards" on T&S's non-affiliated, home-grown website (http://www.offtotheraces.net) are posted in a horrible format.
[/b]



Just checked out that "Off to the races" website... WAY COOL!!! Lots of neat stuff on that :)

As for those "time cards" they are certainly helpful and give you all of your times. It was "the thing" a while back. Before the "mylaps" website that was the best you could really get from a drivers standpoint. I remember when it came out it was the coolest thing :) Now though times have changed and the BEST thing that I am aware of is the Mylaps webbsite as it is all computerized on the web and it is easy to do "queries" allowing you to compaire yourself to other racers, see lapcharts, etc... Now if we could only compare 1 race with another race!!!

I would think that WDCR region would be open to taking the next step, but might need a little help?

Raymond

mgyip
06-29-2006, 02:49 PM
I'm not trying to imply that MyLaps is perfect - IMHO, there is no such thing as a perfect T&S system, not even warm bodies or an impersonal computer. What I'm saying is that WDCR's T&S is not very receptive to new technology, especially technology that isn't perfect (which would be anything running a Win-Doze OS).

RSTPerformance
06-29-2006, 03:11 PM
I'm not trying to imply that MyLaps is perfect - IMHO, there is no such thing as a perfect T&S system, not even warm bodies or an impersonal computer. What I'm saying is that WDCR's T&S is not very receptive to new technology, especially technology that isn't perfect (which would be anything running a Win-Doze OS).
[/b]


My Laps is FAR from perfect especially for actual results... 100% Agreed :)

It is to bad that WDCR T&S is non-receptive to new technology... It will certainly hurt them in the long run and prevents them from being the "leader" in racing events within SCCA and other racing organizations. Hopefully enough people will speek up and tell them what they as drivers want and the T&S people will listen/learn from those willing to help. :unsure:

We could all argue for or agains Win_Doze OS's Me personally I like them as the userability is much easier IMO... :024:

At anyrate though I think we all appreciate the hard work T&S does... Who still remembers EVERYTHING being done with hand watches and lap tapers??? That was hard work!!! We have so much more information available to us now and every little bit we get I am thankful for :) Personally I like to see my times when I get of the track... Thus our crew takes lap times of myself, my brother and some of our competitors :)

Knestis
06-29-2006, 03:18 PM
2+2=4

Jeanne Hoffman (T&S chief for the 12 hours) is related to Tom Hoffman (am I right?), who runs a site that we have to visit if we want to see results. MyLaps would suck visitors away from his baby.

Never mind.

The explanation of why the data can't go to MyLaps is going to be a convoluted explanation of how this "is a better solution," based on pseudo-techno-babble about OS's, database backsides, and other red herrings. This will be like when our old "tech support" guy (who we called "The Inhibitor") would trot out all kinds of technical sounding excuses for doing things a particular way, when his real answer was "it would make me actually work, to do it differently."

Kirk (who's kind of glad he's not paying dues to WDCR anymore)

dickita15
06-29-2006, 03:39 PM
Brian did get out on the drivers side. Think upside down and backwards. He said he waited quite a while for help and then decided to get out himself. Not all that easy to do. Lift your weight to release the belts. Not fall on your help. Remove wheel. Remove net.

I do not expect a driver who just flipped four times to think a lot about traffic. That is the flaggers job. It is a shame there was not enough volunteers to have station 11 staffed.

JamesB
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Yeah, a few extra flaggers probably would have helped since the rotations is what likely kept 11 unmanned. Its hard to be perfect all the time. I was just happy to find that we managed to recruit enough for Pit so we had a good rotation going giving everyone a chance to relax and enjoy the race.

Kirk your right, and for many of us technology is not an issue. Your team more then other club racers if you ask me (hello packet radio.) Though I did finally get a good look at the the dipole for that setup. Truely grassroots.

But I dont have an issue with paying my dues to the region. Outside of the T&S issues of clinging onto a DOS program I have a hard time finding issues I dont see other regions battling. I think in time it could change, but you never know.

Bill Miller
06-29-2006, 04:23 PM
2+2=4

Jeanne Hoffman (T&S chief for the 12 hours) is related to Tom Hoffman (am I right?), who runs a site that we have to visit if we want to see results. MyLaps would suck visitors away from his baby.

Never mind.

The explanation of why the data can't go to MyLaps is going to be a convoluted explanation of how this "is a better solution," based on pseudo-techno-babble about OS's, database backsides, and other red herrings. This will be like when our old "tech support" guy (who we called "The Inhibitor") would trot out all kinds of technical sounding excuses for doing things a particular way, when his real answer was "it would make me actually work, to do it differently."

Kirk (who's kind of glad he's not paying dues to WDCR anymore)
[/b]


Who's the character from Dilbert, Mordac the Preventer? I'm thinking Kirk may have hit on the real reason.

EV
06-30-2006, 09:05 AM
Who's the character from Dilbert, Mordac the Preventer? I'm thinking Kirk may have hit on the real reason.
[/b]
The offtothraces site was created as a service to the region, and for no other reason.

We can all sit on our PC's and make judgments, if you want the facts, talk to Jeanne. You might not like the reason, but don't condemn a VOLUNTEER then sit on the sidelines. If you don’t like it, VOLUNTEER and do something about it.

To those who tried and didn’t get well received and those who do help out (Mgyip), I don’t mean you.

Sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of hearing "T&S sucks at this" and "EV sucks at that", and "the flaggers should have whatever’ed". Many of these people have never been there doing what we do to let YOU have fun on the track for little more than a piece of chicken and ridicule from the uninformed.

(stepping off soap box, putting on my nomex, ready for the flames)

Andy Bettencourt
06-30-2006, 09:11 AM
I think everyone is waiting for a decent explanation as to why MyLaps isn't suitable when almost every other Region uses it - and you guys did too last year for this same event.

Seems simple.

Chris Humphrey
06-30-2006, 10:31 AM
Just wanted to chime in and Thank all who made the 12 hour happen.
We had a great time even though it was cut short at the 7.5 hour mark from a oil leak that caused the motor to expire. I will try it again next year.

LOST & NOT FOUND

I did lose a wheel and tire at the track. I think I may have left it near the wooden fence near Pit spot #4 if any picked it up, it's a 13in Chrome Circle wheel with a flat spotted Toyo on it. It would be nice to get it back.


ITA RX7 #7

Knestis
06-30-2006, 10:47 AM
... If you don’t like it, VOLUNTEER and do something about it. [/b]

Okay - I volunteer. I'm sorry that I don't know the who's who in WDCR so just tell me who to contact for the AMB data, and I'll do whatever I can to be sure that it gets to mylaps.

Thanks!

Kirk

Gregg
06-30-2006, 11:27 AM
I'm sorry that I don't know the who's who in WDCR so just tell me who to contact for the AMB data, and I'll do whatever I can to be sure that it gets to mylaps.[/b]
http://wdcr-scca.org/email/contacts.php

Look for the T&S chief...and good luck w/ that. :bash_1_:

Knestis
06-30-2006, 02:11 PM
Email sent. Thanks, Gregg.
K

JohnRW
06-30-2006, 03:02 PM
2+2=4

Jeanne Hoffman (T&S chief for the 12 hours) is related to Tom Hoffman (am I right?), who runs a site that we have to visit if we want to see results. MyLaps would suck visitors away from his baby.

Never mind.[/b]


You realize that you're starting to 'channel' Matt Weisberg, don't you ?

ggnagy
06-30-2006, 10:03 PM
You realize that you're starting to 'channel' Matt Weisberg, don't you ?
[/b]

You mean he's gonna go off on the WDCR medical info helmet pouches any moment now???

Knestis
07-01-2006, 08:09 PM
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Got a very positive note on the subject from RE Gail Lorenz so I'm expecting progress.

K

dave parker
07-02-2006, 08:53 PM
Even Dave agrees

I guess it's just the safety worker in me that wants to keep the car between me and the rest of the track. I have had a car chase me out of a gravel trap once during a hot pull (I gave him back the gravel he placed in my pocket), it's no fun. Brian had his back to traffic and would have never seen the car he was about to become a hood ornament for.

When I mentioned rule #1 above, part of that is to keep something heavy between you and traffic.

Just a suggestion..
[/b]

Guys,
Mr. Mushnick crawled out of the drivers side window( i watched him release the window net) and stood next to the exposed side of the car. All this while cars were coming at him at race speed (shame on them the yellow was out.). Not smart, but we will give him the benefit of the doubt because his bell was probably ringing.

Having worked as a flagger and worked with EV, I would have stayed in the car (unless it was on fire) until Rescue 1 arrived on the scene. Think about it, what if you are injured? Do you think releasing the belts and landing on your head is a good idea?

But I have a skewed opinion because I only roll cars for money. :) :)

Cheers.
"dangerous" dave parker

Knestis
07-02-2006, 10:17 PM
http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/mk3.2/summit5.jpg

Kathy Webb pics and the short version of our story are available from the link at http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/events06.php

K

Knestis
07-29-2006, 01:04 PM
WDCR got the results up on MyLaps at http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?i...81&highlight=26 (http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=373481&highlight=26) if you are interested in seeing them...

K

MMiskoe
07-31-2006, 08:50 PM
Whom ever had a hand in getting those posted - thanks!

Matt

RSTPerformance
07-31-2006, 11:32 PM
WDCR got the results up on MyLaps at http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?i...81&highlight=26 (http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=373481&highlight=26) if you are interested in seeing them...

K
[/b]


Glad to see that they got it online!!!

Now K the only question is who was driving on lap 147? :smilie_pokal:

Raymond

Greg Amy
08-01-2006, 08:44 AM
Now K the only question is who was driving on lap 147?[/b]

Jeff "Sierra Hotel" Lawton!

datadude
08-01-2006, 01:58 PM
This issue has been raised with WDCR T&S in the past but MyLaps doesn't provide proper reporting to National according to our T&S Chief who (as James points out) prefers a DOS-based program b/c it meets the "letter of the law". This is the same reason why they resisted Orbitz and Chronx b/c neither program properly recorded data according to the GCR.

I wonder if this is an GCR oversight (outdated language that has not been changed) or if every other region is using an "illegal" T&S system. It would be interesting to protest EVERY SCCA REGION except WDCR b/c their results aren't in the proper format - can you imagine the firestorm? :ph34r:
Just follow the General Li - if you can't go thru 3 faster, at least you can do it "drift style" :eclipsee_steering:
[/b]

AMB is softwre for timing, T&S can dump that info into a third party program, or Excel or word and produce reports. They also can produce official results from it, unless there is a dsq, because SCCA does it different . Mylaps is purely for info and not an official race result source. The AMB data for the event is uploaded. Ever notice how many other series, worldwide were there, SCCA looks pretty small. AMB software is not illegal, other regions produce GCR compliant results through AMB or do an export to something. The NA of t&s and ntl office get back to every region that doesn't send in compliant results. Believe that t&s issues are being looked at for the GCR.



Any hints as to why the MyLaps (read AMB) system doesn't produce the right results?
[/b]
Mylaps is only a data source for driver info, not official race results. It does not claim to be the official race result place. that would be on either a divisional, regional or ntl web. Ntl is on discussion and then club racing.

JamesB
08-01-2006, 02:36 PM
Datadude your preaching to the choir here. However, if you ever have a discussion with our T&S Chief you will learn all that you have said is wrong. Believe me, its been asked, its why many of us just smile and knod.

PS- This has nothing to do with your response being incorrect, but in the eyes of T&S you are.

datadude
08-01-2006, 03:54 PM
Datadude your preaching to the choir here. However, if you ever have a discussion with our T&S Chief you will learn all that you have said is wrong. Believe me, its been asked, its why many of us just smile and knod.

PS- This has nothing to do with your response being incorrect, but in the eyes of T&S you are.
[/b]
Think it is time for me to try and through my weight around.

JLawton
08-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Jeff "Sierra Hotel" Lawton!
[/b]


:figo:


ouch , just hurt my shoulder patting myself on the back!!

philstireservice
08-06-2006, 10:13 AM
Jeff "Sierra Hotel" Lawton!
[/b]



We told Jeff "Cole Trickle" Lawton that he had a special set of tires on the car and he could do anything he wanted with them.......hence lap 147......

Way to go Cole...:)

Jeremy Billiel
08-06-2006, 11:05 AM
We told Jeff "Cole Trickle" Lawton that he had a special set of tires on the car and he could do anything he wanted with them.......hence lap 147......

Way to go Cole...:)
[/b]


hahahhaa... thats good Phil!

Bottom line is Jeff was fastest. What would happen if Jeff took the NX2000 for a ride? I wonder.....

:D

JLawton
08-06-2006, 02:24 PM
Bottom line is Jeff was fastest. What would happen if Jeff took the NX2000 for a ride? I wonder.....

:D
[/b]


Way to stir the pot Jeremy!! <_<


Those tires were good Phil!! :023: But you&#39;tr tellin&#39; me they were&#39;nt special?? :(

Jeremy Billiel
08-06-2006, 05:12 PM
Way to stir the pot Jeremy!! <_<
Those tires were good Phil!! :023: But you&#39;tr tellin&#39; me they were&#39;nt special?? :(
[/b]

isn&#39;t that what makes the forums fun? :happy204: :D

Greg Amy
08-06-2006, 05:20 PM
...What would happen if Jeff took the NX2000 for a ride? I wonder...[/b]

Daaaamn, Jeremy...looking to cause trouble? Hey, Jeff&#39;s a good driver, no doubtaboutit. Glad to have him as a friend and a co-driver in the enduros, not a competitor! :023:

But...ask Jeff how many other times we&#39;ve driven together and how those came out...or how about if Greg took the Saturn out for a spin...? ;)

Knestis
08-06-2006, 05:54 PM
I looked back at the mylaps data again this afternoon and have to admit that I&#39;m pretty pleased to see a 1:34.86 during one of my stints. I must have not been paying attention and got into 3 too hot... :P

Is it better to be consistently slow or inconsistently fast??

K

Jeremy Billiel
08-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Daaaamn, Jeremy...looking to cause trouble? Hey, Jeff&#39;s a good driver, no doubtaboutit. Glad to have him as a friend and a co-driver in the enduros, not a competitor! :023:

But...ask Jeff how many other times we&#39;ve driven together and how those came out...or how about if Greg took the Saturn out for a spin...? ;)
[/b]

You guys know I am just playing with you. What you really should have said is "Jeremy, you damn rookie. You have no clue what fast is!"

:D

JLawton
08-07-2006, 05:57 AM
But...ask Jeff how many other times we&#39;ve driven together and how those came out...[/b]

Ummm, just once?? My first time in the car, first time at the track, and the difference was ........... 2/10s?? :006: (smily added to make sure Greg knows Jeff is kidding, but knows that he will pay for the comments at some future point!!)




Is it better to be consistently slow or inconsistently fast??

K
[/b]

Yes, I did notice I need to work on my consistancy..... :( Thanks for subtly pointing that out!! :P

Greg Amy
08-07-2006, 06:23 AM
Ummm, just once??[/b]

Hmmmm, you sure about that? Didn&#39;t we share some cars at a PDA event once... ;)


...knows that he will pay for the comments at some future point!!)[/b]

Nah, not where you&#39;d notice...in advance...

Honestly, Jeremy, I don&#39;t mean to minimize Jeff&#39;s accomplishments; I&#39;d drive with him ANY DAY. But you have to realize that endurance racing is a whole &#39;nother can of worms. If each of us went out there and tried to crack off fast laps, especially in the middle of a 12-hour race, then we&#39;re playing with limits we don&#39;t need to be. We refuse to go out there at Hour 6 and try to "beat" our co-drivers with fast lap times. Instead, we set a race pace that is significantly within the confines of the car such to give us flexibility and longevity. My personal "success" is one where my laps times are a tight grouping with minimal deviation from a good race pace. If you want to judge endurance drivers, break out your statistical caculator and check for consistency.

I drove with a "team" at a 24 Hour race at Watkins Glen in 1991. Just before I got in for a stint a driver goes out for his. We watched him pull in fast lap after fast lap, dive-bombing into T1 like he was in a sprint race. When he finally got done he brought the car in the with brakes smoking and the car spent; we were still in that first afternoon. He had this big grin on his face and the first thing he noted was how much faster than his co-drivers he was. We were unimpressed, having just watched him waste the car for and hour-and-a-half. I was extremely unimpressed, especially when I lost my brakes going into the turn at the end of the back straight (this was before the Bus Stop Chicane was added.)

Ergo, note that in the 2005 SPR event I set the fastest lap simply by matter of coincidence: I was the last driver in the car. Further, I didn&#39;t do it until 11:45 PM or so, and only after our crew chief got on the radio and told us that our lap advantage exceeded the number of laps left and we couldn&#39;t lose, and to go ahead and knock off a couple of fast ones. I dropped about a second-and-a-half off my prior laps then brought it home for the beer.

That&#39;s the same thing that any of us on the team would have done.

JLawton
08-07-2006, 07:21 AM
Hmmmm, you sure about that? Didn&#39;t we share some cars at a PDA event once... ;)
Nah, not where you&#39;d notice...in advance...

Honestly, Jeremy, I don&#39;t mean to minimize Jeff&#39;s accomplishments; I&#39;d drive with him ANY DAY. But you have to realize that endurance racing is a whole &#39;nother can of worms. If each of us went out there and tried to crack off fast laps, especially in the middle of a 12-hour race, then we&#39;re playing with limits we don&#39;t need to be. We refuse to go out there at Hour 6 and try to "beat" our co-drivers with fast lap times. Instead, we set a race pace that is significantly within the confines of the car such to give us flexibility and longevity. My personal "success" is one where my laps times are a tight grouping with minimal deviation from a good race pace. If you want to judge endurance drivers, break out your statistical caculator and check for consistency.

I drove with a "team" at a 24 Hour race at Watkins Glen in 1991. Just before I got in for a stint a driver goes out for his. We watched him pull in fast lap after fast lap, dive-bombing into T1 like he was in a sprint race. When he finally got done he brought the car in the with brakes smoking and the car spent; we were still in that first afternoon. He had this big grin on his face and the first thing he noted was how much faster than his co-drivers he was. We were unimpressed, having just watched him waste the car for and hour-and-a-half. I was extremely unimpressed, especially when I lost my brakes going into the turn at the end of the back straight (this was before the Bus Stop Chicane was added.)

Ergo, note that in the 2005 SPR event I set the fastest lap simply by matter of coincidence: I was the last driver in the car. Further, I didn&#39;t do it until 11:45 PM or so, and only after our crew chief got on the radio and told us that our lap advantage exceeded the number of laps left and we couldn&#39;t lose, and to go ahead and knock off a couple of fast ones. I dropped about a second-and-a-half off my prior laps then brought it home for the beer.

That&#39;s the same thing that any of us on the team would have done.
[/b]


Lighten up Greg, we&#39;re just teasin&#39;!! It&#39;s not often we get to play with the Amy ego!! :P We just wanted to see how wound up we could get you!!

I&#39;m sure if we looked at each others average lap time, I would be way behind!! No doubt!! One of the many reasons why the team does so well and has so much fun is that we can all check our egos in the pits. Hey, how many guys do you know would be secure enough to wear thong under wear over his drivers suit!! (you&#39;re lucky I don&#39;t still have the picture!!) Little help Kirk??

Knestis
08-07-2006, 07:50 AM
... Yes, I did notice I need to work on my consistancy..... :( Thanks for subtly pointing that out!! :P
[/b]

Uh, right - YOU do? I backed my 34 up with 35, 35, 41(!), 36, 35, 37, etc...

But seriously - Greg is absolutely right. It&#39;s probably a very bad idea to start talking about lap times, even if we&#39;re just kidding around. I harbor no illusion that, had the point been to turn one fast lap, (a) they would have been faster, and (b ) we would have turned the car into a smoking pile of worn out parts in something less than 12 hours.

K

Conover
08-08-2006, 05:31 PM
(b ) we would have turned the car into a smoking pile of worn out parts in something less than 12 hours.

K
[/b]

I don&#39;t know. . .we sure had plenty of brake pad left. I&#39;d almost say those brakes would last for 24. We should find out!