Had my car on the track for the first time...

[eMKay]

All the suspension advice I got from you guys has been excellent, I didn't feel the need to change a thing, the handling is perfect. Let me describe what the car does in a corner, you turn the wheel and the car instantly turn in and the rear end starts to rotate, then all I have to do is stomp on the gas and the car just settles down, no inside wheelspin, just sticks.

There are a couple problems, first and biggest is OIL TEMP! I can't go 5 laps without it climbing over 300 degrees, ambient temp was 80 degrees. The car already has a huge filter and an oil cooler, should I go ti an even BIGGER cooler? Pressure at that temp seemed to be between 40 and 50 PSI. Water temp was fine. Second is the car refuses to start when warm. It starts when cold fine, and starts when hot but not very well. The car doesn't have a hot start pulse relay so I'm sure that is the problem. Well, it HAD one but it looked like it got wet as it was destroyed on the inside.

Here is a video, 4 laps, about 25mb, Toronto Motorsports Park...

http://www.emkayusa.com/videos/TMP06.wmv

[Conover]

What Type of Oil are you using? Synthetic is probably not too hot at 300*F. How hot did it get?
what are your water temps like? Are you runing a little lean, possibly? Cool the H2o down as much as possible and you might find your oil temps are a little better off.

[eMKay]

M1 5w-30, Water temp is OK, 200-210 I'm running green coolant for now. I have water wetter ready to swap it out with but I figured I would just keep the green stuff in there until I take it to my first SCCA school. The temp seemed to peak a little over 300, and would come down a little under 300 if I short shifted. Maybe swapping the coolant for water wetter will be enough? Thanks.

[Bill Miller]

I'll suggest an alternate approach. Check the gauge and make sure it's accurate. Don't ask me how I know to suggest this. :mad1:

[eMKay]

I'll suggest an alternate approach. Check the gauge and make sure it's accurate. Don't ask me how I know to suggest this. :mad1:
[/b]

Ok, it's an autometer gauge, what should I check? Resistance at the sender?

[lateapex911]

I know nothing about VWs, LOL, but I hate to see problems like this. Some general thoughts. Are you sure you are getting flow to the cooler? Is there a thermostat? Any kink issues with the lines? Good flow thru the cooler? Cavitation? And so on...double check the basics.

If you have access to one, and infrared heat sensor is a great tool to check. You can really use it to spot hot and cold spots. And Bill's right, double check the guage, the sender and the sender location.

[16v]

lower the camera tad so we can see what is coming up thru the windscreen :ph34r:

[Bill Miller]

Yep, what Doug said, set the camera up so that you see more of the track and less of the dash. As far as that oil temp gauge goes, make sure that the range on the sender corresponds w/ the range on the gauge. If you've got one that's for a lower max range, that could be why it's reading high the gauge. That's one of the reasons why I prefer mechancial gauges when it comes to temp and pressure. Definately need a mechancal voltemeter :P ;)

[JamesB]

Ok first things first. What radiator are you running? What size cooler. Water tstat, oil tstat? Its possible to get enough cooling, at 80 degrees I am at 190 water and 210 oil. Running ams oil or dyno.

[VW16VRacer]

The thing I learned was to put a small brake light on the dash so you can see when you are on the brakes on the incar video. Helped others laugh at the brake chalanged Mk2 16V Golf when they watched too... :lol:

I hate to :dead_horse: lower the camera......

[David Ferguson]

Consider where you are picking up the oil temperature. With an external oil cooler, you want it on the output-side of the oil cooler -- this represents the temperature of the oil going into the engine. Then you can evaluate if you need a larger cooler.

You probably want to keep your oil temps at 250 or less.

[JamesB]

Exactly. As stout as the 8v motor is (I think you have a rabbit right?) The cyl head temps when your water and oil are that high are not good. And since radiators are not limited, you can do what I did and go with something oversized. I am actually running a 16v with AC radiator on my 8V and I have none of the heat issues that others have warned me about. Coupled with a 23 row oil cooler and properly sized lines things look fine. I take my oil temp at the top of my filter housing where many others do the same including OEM VW trip computers.

[eMKay]

The temp sender is at the top of the filter housing, the cooler is only an 8 row cooler, so it's not very big, they are cheap so maybe I should just get a bigger one? The lines are all the right size, should I go with thicker oil? And does water wetter really work to bring down the temps like they claim?

[JamesB]

Here is what I would recomend. GO with a bigger cooler (make sure you have the right ntp to AN fittings.) Change to a 170F thermostat and run water with watter wetter (no antifreeze.) If you store the car outdoors in the winter up north, drain the system so you don't blow a freeze plug. Otherwise your looking at a better radiator. Also how old is the radiator, how well does it flow?

[spiro13]

Are you running an Oil Thermostat? I'm talking about the one that is built into the oil filter housing. If you are I would suggest you get rid of it and run a sandwich adaptor. Get a bigger oil cooler and make sure the oil lines are plumed correctly. Also, run the oil through the cooler from bottom to top. This solved my oil temp problems on my Rabbit. My water temps run around 195 with a GTI radiator and oil temp 220 to 230 when air temp is mid 90s.

Tony

[JamesB]

I meant to ask that if you where using a plate or the oem housing with the build it stuff for a cooler. Either way, I still say bigger cooler and bigger radiator, lower temp Tstat.

[Dave Zaslow]

Regarding the hot-start issue, do you have the stock fuel accumulator plumbed in? Is it working? It lives in a very exposed spot. Its job is to maintain the fuel pressure for hot starts. Also make sure the system is holding pressure when the engine is off. The fuel pump should have a one-way valve to, again, maintain pressure in the lines. If I remember the spec is in the Bentley.

Dave Zaslow

[eMKay]

I fixed the hot start issue, turns out the fuse/relay box is a little different than it's described in the Bentley, and the cold start realy (also acts as a hot start relay) was 1) in the wrong spot, 2) looked like it had been under water for years, it was all rusted out inside. So once I got a new one and figured out where it goes it still didn't work. But everything was wired right, I ran the tests with a test light attached to the cold start valve and it did none of the things it was supposed to do, so on a whim I replaced the thermo time switch with one from one of my spare engines and everything seems to work now.

As for the oil temp problem I took a couple pics...

Which is inlet and which is outlet?
http://www.emkayusa.com/racing/gti37.jpg

Here is the cooler, looks too small to me and the lines are pretty long
http://www.emkayusa.com/racing/gti38.jpg

[JamesB]

Good deal on the hot start issue. I cannot tell if that plate has a thermostat or not. I dont know how efficient that cooler is. I have a Truecool 24 row, and its not tubing with fins, instead its like a radiator and the oil flows through the fins (just like a mocal.)

So its very possible just getting a better oil cooler will help drop temps for you.

[eMKay]

Good deal on the hot start issue. I cannot tell if that plate has a thermostat or not. I dont know how efficient that cooler is. I have a Truecool 24 row, and its not tubing with fins, instead its like a radiator and the oil flows through the fins (just like a mocal.)

So its very possible just getting a better oil cooler will help drop temps for you.
[/b]

The thermostat is just above the plate, it has the green wire going to it, thanks for your help

[JamesB]

huh? I am not 100% sure about that. The green wire looks like its connected to a sensor on the oil filter housing, I dont see a thermostatic sandwich plate.

I will take lots of detailed pictures of my setup for you this weekend when I am out by the car.

[spiro13]

From the picture it appears you don't have a VW Motorsport filter housing with the built in thermostat. The green wire is going to the OEM filter housing and is reading the Oil temp. It's hard to tell anything about the oil cooler except that you should replace the oil lines with a high pressure hose. If you use worm clamps on the ends instaed of AN fittings, use two. And check them frequently. Start up oil pressure can sometimes be close to 100lbs. The sandwich adaptor usually has arrows indicating the flow direction.

Also, if you again have restart problems check the fuel pump relay. Water gets into the fuse box and corrosion occures on the fuses.

Tony