Jensen Track Outing Number Two

[Ron Earp]

The first race outing for the Jensen Healey ended up badly, unfortunately. Jeff and I decided to head down to the Memorial Monster event at Carolina Motorsports Park for a lot of racing - two sprints, one mini enduro, and the Carolina Cup. Friday, the day before, was an open testing day so we signed up for that to shake the car down.

We'd previously had the Jensen out at Roebling Road and learned it had cooling issues, as well as oiling issues. Since then I'd spent a lot of time putting in a new NASCAR radiator, adding an Accusump, larger oil cooler, and dual remote oil filters. I was pretty sure we'd handled the cooling and oiling problems, that was we'd be allowed to concentrate on figuring out other problems with car. In fact, here are a couple of pictures of the compete system:

http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/rightside.jpg

Well, out we go on the first practice session and on lap two, on the front straight, the remote oil filter adapter blows off the block and within about 5-7 seconds pumps the oil out of the sump, 3 qt Accusump, and runs the engine dry. And, naturally, the car oiled the track down and closed it for about 30 minutes for clean up. I felt horrible about that as I've been on the receiving end of it before. Really hate that happened and my sincere apologies for the group 1 folks that got cut short and for the delays. I wish it would have happened at home when we ran the motor in for 1/2 hour, but, I suppose vibration and revs helped out quite a bit.

Anyway, after a flat tow back in the paddock we were able to check it out. After much searching, looking around the pits at oil filters, and talking to folks, we found that the adapter was not the correct adapter for the motor. The adapter that blew off was for a Chevy with 3/4" threads, while I needed the Ford one with 13/16" threads. Normally the engine took Chevy threads, but, the new oil cooler block swapped it all around and exposed a Ford nipple for the remained of the system. You can put a Chevy adapter on a Ford nipple, and it will tighten up, although it goes on a bit lose. And, most oil fitler/cooler kits just come with Chevy adapters since they think everyone wants a Chevy motor. The adapter won't stay on and when you have thread locking sealant on the nipple it is extremely difficult to tell that the adapter is in fact the wrong size since it fits reasonabley well. I've always not liked Chevys and been a Ford man. It's my fault, yes I know.

At any rate, a 120 mile parts hunt in two counties around CMP Friday turned up the correct part (and another 80 mile hunt on Saturday turned up a shop that turns rotors, but that is a different story). After cleaning everything, carefully, and putting it back together the moment of truth arrived. We fired up the motor and she had pressure, great! Jeff was able to go out and run some laps in the car since I'd had enough for the day. But, after about 15 minutes of running a ticking noise slowly became louder and eventually became an identifiable rod knock. Pressure was still strong and good, but the knock was definitely there. I was definitely depressed on Friday, but deserved what I got.

I am hoping we only wiped a rod bearing and that the bearing is damaged while everything else is okay. That could be repaired relatively easily since the bearings for the motor are not expensive. Bearings are there to protect machined surfaces, right? Maybe I'll get lucky on this one. We're pulling the motor out now and will report back later this week.

Extremely disappointing day, but we'll be back. Jeff got in a few laps in the JH on Friday between repairs and before the rod knock set in and was extremely impressed with power and handling, we might be on to something. Cooling issues are gone for sure, we've got more water and cooling area than we know what to do with now, both oil and water.

At least there was one glimmer of hope - Jeff's TR8 placed 4th in ITS on Saturday's race, and led the ITS racing on Sunday for about four laps - before retiring with burned up calipers. We've got to do some ducting development for that car, and for the JH, before either get back out. Before I head to another race track with the JH we're going to try and rent a local circle like Ace Speedway. Hear you can get 4 hour of time, uninterupted, for like $200. Much better than SCCA test days I think and will allow us to sort big problems, like this one, off track and out of other people's way.

R

[lateapex911]

Wow...sorry to hear all that!

I authorize you to give anyone who mentions the term "British car" a forceful nufge going into a corner should you ever race with them!

You've certainly given this the college try. It is indicative of how racing can be a real challenge mechanically. Car choice can be important, and have lots of surprises.

Glad to hear you're staying the course. It seems like you are almost there. Hang in there!

[Ron Earp]

Thanks for the encouragement Jake, it keeps things moving!

Engine is out and on the stand. I'll drop the pan tomorrow and hope for a big nasty scored rod bearing. If I get one of those, and the others are good, I think it safe to assume the mains are okay since they are much larger, get much more oil, and are not known for issues in the Lotus 907. The number 3 rod bearing is known to be a problem though and that is the first one I'll pop off.

Replacing the rod bearings is easy since it only requires pan removal. Mains are a whole different story involving spliting the block in half and at that point one might as well do a rebuild to ensure that everything lines back up etc.......trying to avoid that.

I'll post results, good or bad.

[Eagle7]

Keep up the good work guys. We're rooting for you! :OLA:

[Ron Earp]

Thanks!!! We're going to get that thing right, one way or the other. I'll drop the pan later this afternoon and take some pictures. My daughter and I are taking some time this AM to wax the truck - I've owned it for 1.5 years and haven't done that yet!!!! :018:

[88YB1]

Hey Ron. Glad I got the chance to meet you at CMP. Sorry to hear about the Healy. Really sucks. Three engines, and a clutch later I know your pain. The Monster Memorial was the first real test for the Fiero. The power train performed flawlessly through the double SARRC and ECR. The brakes were superb even without cooling ducts. And that is using Porterfield R4 up front with performance street pads on the rear. Now it's time to turn my attention to the suspension. The car was fast on the straights, but a pig in the turns. I'll start with different alignment settings for the next event at R.A. I'll follow that up with new Konis at the next race, and then work with spring rates. I know it can handle better. I just have to find the right combination.

We had a very interesting result at CMP. Scott Holton and I were sharing the car. Scott was about 8 seconds faster in turns 1 thru 8, and I was faster in 11 thru 14. If we put our individual fast sections together the car would be turning 1:57s instead of 2:04 and 2:07s. Really shows how different driving styles effects overall times.

Good luck with the car. Hope to se you at the track again soon.

Chuck
ITA Pontiac Fiero #34

[JeffYoung]

Chuck, good to meet you as well. Keep digging on the Fiero, it seems to have potential. Lots of folks will poo-poo an odd car choice, but they can be made to work -- with a LOT of work (as you well know).

Now that you have the engine reliable it is time to go to work on the suspension. Before I dumped a bunch of money into shocks, get the rough balance of the car right with springs. If it is plowing and not turning, it sounds like you are too stiff up front or too soft in the back.

I have read the correct way to "roughly" balance your car is to take it to a skidpad (or your friendly neighborhood large public parking lot on an empty Saturday afternoon) and drive the circle. If you can "balance" the car (meaning modulating between the front breaking free v. the rear breaking free) with the throttle (harder to do with a mid-engined car obviously, given lift throttle oversteer), you have the spring rates "roughed in." If no matter what you do with the throttle, the front breaks free first, soften it. If the rear is breaking free, soften it.

You can then "tune" with sway bars. As others with far more experience than me have explained, drop big dollars on shocks last, as all they really control is handling under transition and not the basic understeer/oversteer characteristics of the car.

[Ron Earp]

Hey Chuck,

Good to meet you down there as well. It is nice to see someone out on track trying something a little out of the ordinary. There is another fellow we met at Roebling and VIR that is doing an IT Fiero as well, be cool when both are out together!

I think Jeff's suggestions are right on. Go for springs first, the have the biggest affect on handling (assuming your shocks are working and not broken). Have a look around the paddock too, there are plenty of front runners running on $25 shocks, and I do mean front runners but I won't name names. You don't have to have Koni's to go fast, it all depends on what you end up with spring rates etc. which you should attack first.

Good luck with the development!

Ron

[88YB1]

Thanks for the responce guys. I think the spring rates are in the ball park. We tried adding a round and half of wedge to the rear struts. It made the rear so loose we had trouble keeping the car on the track. The rear wanted to step out on every corner. Backed it off to 1/4 round, and the car settled down nicely. I will start with an alignment changed based in tire temps and wear patterns. There was a 60 degree difference accross the face of the front tires and the inside grove showed much more wear than the outside grove. This indicates that I was running too much negative camber. More contact patch should mean more grip, and better cornering. I'll take a couple of degrees of camber out and see what happens at Road Atlanta in July.

Chuck

[JeffYoung]

Makes sense.

I'd be careful setting the car up based on the "feel" of the car that weekend anyway. That track was WAY loose. A "tight" setup on that track maybe WAY too tight on anything else.

I've never seen a track so slippery by Sunday p.m.

[Ron Earp]

Well (all good stories start like that), we got the motor out and the pan off. Lo and behold, lots of metal bits in the pickup screen and in the oil pan. Lots of little blue/black ribbons of metal that used to be a bearing shell. Now, which one? Didn't take long to figure out. Judson suggested go for number three since it fails quickly. Nada, nice and clean bearings. Number two? Nope, not behind door number two. Use a little light and viola - look, number four is oozing metal out around the con rod! Pop the cap and all was revealed. Number four spun and coughed bits in the pan. Bearing was still all there though and the crank is not heinously scored. It has some roughness compared to #1 and #3 which are smooth, but not so much to catch a fingernail or measure. I think it might polish up with cloth, or at least we'll try. Some pictures below, looks like fun times ahead!

PS-that is Jeff's pants and shoes in there, I can't afford to work on engines in my suit but he insists on being well-dressed for any occasion!

http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/bits.JPG
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/1.JPG
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/4.JPG
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/shell1.JPG
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/shell2.JPG
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/bearings/close4.JPG

[ECR]

I dont know you,nor do you know me. However,I have followed your Jensen project closely since being in this greasy business over 3/4 of my life(and,no,Im not 80) I worked on quite a bit of those things when they were current, and I know how precious parts can be for those things. Having built a few engines over the years, from VW to Miata to BDA Escort to 911 toV12 Ferrari,I can only respectfully recommend that you do NOT try to clean the crank with a crocus cloth, but bite the small bullet now,strip it,and send the crank,rods,AND block to a precision machine shop. Best of luck.

[joeg]

I agree with ECR. You should strip it. The crank may polish up, but the rod may need to be resized.

You also could have metal floating around and if you have an accusump and cooler, you may have trapped bits in there.

Frankly if you heard a rod knock, you need a rebuild and I have never seen a race motor puke its oil and survive with just an oil and bearing change.

[Ron Earp]

Everything will have to be inspected, measured, and re-measured before deciding anything. The best thing to do would be pull it all down, but, that isn't cheap to do on the 907 as the costs add up quickly. I've re-polished cranks and run them, as has my builder successfully. Then again, sometimes it doesn't work at all but you can typically figure that out before you do it. Once I get some tools on everything we'll know where we stand.

Ron

[cherokee]

Sorry to hear all of that, it can be a big pain getting a new car ready for the track...Excecially one that is not the norm. I am thinking that my car is the son of the devil but it will not get the best of me. But I do know the feeling after spending all that time and effort, Only to have problems on the 2nd lap. I am still in the dumps about spot. We will get there, and so will you keep on fighting.

[JeffYoung]

Cherokee, hope this is some consolation to you. Showed up at CMP a couple of weeks back and low and behold there is a beautiful silver and red Opel GT (1.9) running in ITB. Have never seen it before, and it ran pretty much flawlessly all weekend. Rookie driver did a damn good job with it too.

They can be made to run, but like you say, oddballs sometimes seem like a son of the devil.

[cherokee]

Sorry for the hyjack....any chance you have a name...or anything. I thaught I was in touch with the Opel guys, I did not know of a new IT car out there. I would love to find out more if possible.

[JeffYoung]

Olin Gale is his name I believe. If you give me your e-mail or phone number, I'll give it to him this weekend (he is supposed to be at Charlotte this weekend racing).

[cherokee]

PM sent Jeff.

Do we have any word on how the J-H is doing, Has the motor come back from the shop yet? How has the TR been doing? Pulling the head on the GT this weekend.....kinda afraid to look.

[trd771]

good luck this weekend Jeff, let me know how things go.

[Harvey]

Olin is far from a rookie. He has been racing for a lot of years He just took a few years off and is now back with the GT. He has been racing Opels and BMWs.

Les Chaney

[Ron Earp]

PM sent Jeff.

Do we have any word on how the J-H is doing, Has the motor come back from the shop yet? How has the TR been doing? Pulling the head on the GT this weekend.....kinda afraid to look.
[/b]

The motor is in pretty good shape, thanks for asking. I know how you feel with your car too, sometimes it drives you crazy. Same with Jeff's too, but that one doesn't frustrate me as much since it isn't mine! :P And, in general, it is far more friendly to work on than the Jensen or your Opel, I'm sure.

The motor spun the bearing but there is no damage to the rod big end, and, the material on the crank basically polished off with 1500 grit paper. Specs on the big end and the crank are exactly where they were when the thing was put together. All the other bearings look perfect, and I do mean perfect. I'm replacing them though, but I'm not pulling the motor down as suggested - if I did it'd cost a lot more than I can afford now and it'd not be back together for months. Sure, if it blows up I lose the $75 in new bearings and labor, but we don't have a lot of labor in it on R&R and I can afford the $75.

I don't think it spun the bearing when I lost oil pressure. I think it spun the bearing when we tried to crank it in the paddock after getting the oiling system back together. When I hit the starter for just a second it made a strange "clunk" noise and didn't start. Jeff heard it too. Then, we hit the starter again and it fired up and ran at idle. I could hear a ticking though, and it got louder. We only ran it for maybe a minute before we decided that was definitely rod knock and we were done. RPM was never over 2000 or so during this period.

Before it goes out to a track event, and oils down another venue, plus costing me a lot of time in towing and gas, we're going to take it to a local asphalt roundy round track and run it for a few hours. They rent out for about $150-$200 for four hours, all you and only you, so it'll be worth it to run the car in.

R

[JeffYoung]

My apologies to Olin -- that car was extremely well driven, whether he was a rookie or not.

Cherokee, I did not manage to catch up with him but his name is Olin Gale -- maybe Les can post some contact info for him here. The car again appeared to run flawlessly at Charlotte.

Andy, I got hit in a second turn accident. I'm concerned one of the frame rails is bent. I'll keep you posted.

FYI -- my new Ron Davis radiator did keep the temps down to 200 degrees for a full session.

[ITBracer]

Jeff- where did you get that rad. is it built to the 8 specs or did you make something else work. What is the size. Keeping it a 200 is great. My aluminum rad runs me about 210-215 during hard session, but if a back off a bit it will come down to 200

[JeffYoung]

I got it from Ron Davis Racing Radiators. Google them and you will find them; if you can't let me know and I'll send you the webpage.

They have a TR8 template in their files. It is the same width and height, but thicker. Really nice work. About $600. Bolts right in too, very easy install. Highly recommended.

Note that the 200 degrees was at Lowe's (pretty much flat out for 1.5 miles), in June (90 deg. plus). In the spring and fall I'm expecting 10-20 degrees cooler...assmuing car is not totalled....

[cherokee]

Jeff that sucks, The TR8 is a body on frame car right? Could you use a TR7 frame or are they different....or would the rules forbid such a change.

I will do some checking with the Opel guys and see if they know Olin. My car died due to over heating I know how hard that can be. I am still stumped as to why it got cooked.

[Knestis]

Sorry to hear that the TR is hurt, Jeff. I saw a barn-car TR (seven, I assume) on the road between here and Rockingham, last time I made the trip, if you want to go on a scavanger hunt...

K

[JeffYoung]

7 and 8 frames are the same (if both are converts). Thanks guys, we will get it sorted. Kirk, I'll e-mail you if Rick Thompson gives me bad news on the frame.

[Ron Earp]

7 and 8 frames are the same (if both are converts). Thanks guys, we will get it sorted. Kirk, I'll e-mail you if Rick Thompson gives me bad news on the frame.
[/b]

If it is destroyed then we can build a coupe! Then there will be no more running away of 2nd Gen RX7s on the straights and other such nonesense.

But, I doubt it is non-repairable. RT can pull it out if bent in any way - he fixed his #99 and that thing got whacked!!!!!! Got any photos?

R

[lateapex911]

RT sent me pics of his 7...or should I say his "4"?? LOL. It looked to me like he pulled the entire front end off and welded on one of his "backyard" car front ends lock stock and barrel. Nice work, I am sure.

Jeff, so sorry to hear the TR8 got bent. The rules are funny about the chassis, but as long as your VIN remains, technically (I think), you're good to go with the same log book.

[Ron Earp]

RT sent me pics of his 7...or should I say his "4"?? LOL. It looked to me like he pulled the entire front end off and welded on one of his "backyard" car front ends lock stock and barrel. Nice work, I am sure.

[/b]

He did, and the car looks fabulous. I've seen it since and it is actually nicer than before since he repainted it. RT can do some mean body work, that is for sure.

R

[lateapex911]

He did, and the car looks fabulous. I've seen it since and it is actually nicer than before since he repainted it. RT can do some mean body work, that is for sure.

R
[/b]

yea, and he's a heck of a nice guy, and I hear he can shoe pretty well too.. ;)

[Ron Earp]

yea, and he's a heck of a nice guy, and I hear he can shoe pretty well too.. ;)
[/b]

I've seen him drive once or thrice, sometimes I've let him by too - you know, just to even things up and all! :P Or wait, maybe that was him lapping me.......

Jeff called after leaving Rick's shop and the front end is bent, unfortunately. :( Prognosis is that it is fixable though, so that is a good thing. Just hate to hear about stuff like this for essentially bad strategic judgement calls during races.

[lateapex911]

Ron, Re that:

Who says a human mind can't bend metal???

[slickS14]

Hey Ron / Jeff, My 240 is still for sale....Just quit playing with the limey cars and come to the darkside.... Sorry to hear about the car and that I didn't make it over to your paddock to say hello this time..Chris

[JeffYoung]

Given my weaknesses as driver, I can't run anything with less than 8 cylinders. So no 240SX for me.....seriously, your car looked great this weekend. Great to see it win on a "power" track. Sorry we missed you as well, and good luck selling the car. I can't believe someone has not snapped it up yet.

[srollman]

Jeff,

I was sorry to see your misfortune at the track this past weekend. I wasn't far behind you when it happened. Certainly not the way anyone wants their weekend to end.

On a positive note, Neil and I finally made it through a weekend without any major mechanical problems. Now we just have to figure out how to make the car (and the driver) a good bit faster.

Best regards,
Sean

[JeffYoung]

Sean, it was great to see you guys back on track. Wasn't sure if we had lost you guys for good.

The car was fast in the infield -- once you get the motor sorted, you are well on your way to some good finishes.

Shunts and bumps are a part of IT racing unfortunately. We all try to avoid them, but they happen. I'll get her fixed and get back out as soon as I can.

When is Dark Helmet (the 190) making its debut? Call me sometime -- 919-286-8011 -- we'll get a beer in Raleigh.

[Ron Earp]

The Jensen and motor went South to Atlanta this weekend to visit Judson Manning, the Lotus 907 guru in the Southeast. Number 4 was too far gone to salvage, it was out of round on the big end fro mthe heat as some predicted. So, no easy fix there. Plus, mains #2 and #3 had issues as well. The motor is coming apart and Judson will redo it so that we'll be able to run it around the September time frame. I have to say, this has been a long road that is nowhere near finished, but we'll get there one day. I'll report back once we're all back together and know that we're in good shape for the next outing.

Ron

[JLawton]

Ron, repeat as necessary:

"But it's a really cool car. But it's a really cool car. But it's a really cool car!!".

[cherokee]

Ron I am right there with you....boy I can relate to your story as I am living it as well, my problem is that messed up my cyl. head. So I was thinking that I would build a to the limit ITB motor. But after pricing 9:1 pistons at ~$100 a pop, machine work, and all the little things to make an Opel motor "to the limit" and all the other stuff I found my self rethinking things. I have decided to keep running my MR2 in IT and move the Opel over to prod, that and I found a realy good deal on a motor. It will just be better and believe it or not simpler to make the car prod, sure there will be more work to it but I can do the work....and nobody will yell at me and call me a cheater for messing with some wires :wacko: The motor will be more now, but the door is open to do so many more things. So it might be a while before old Spot streaches his leggs again.

But I will say hang in there, living with an odd ball is a labor of love, I can't tell you the things I have yelled when messing with a front transverse leaf spring. It is worth it. I got such a thrill out of people coming up to my car and telling me stories about their Opels, or other odd car...to me that is just fun.

Good luck and don't give up!!!

[Ron Earp]

Sorry to hear about your engine, I feel your pain. My engine guy is building a Prod Jensen for exactly the reasons you cite, just easier to do motor wise. On my motor, it is IT limit maxed out for sure. It's .040" over, with everything done up right, so if it doesn't have the power to run in ITS we'll know it straight up. Leaves us to concentrate of chassis, brakes, and driving.

Odd cars are a lot of fun, but a lot of work. You've got two of them, the ITA MR2 isn't common for sure. Good luck with the Prod conversion.

My next car will be for ITR and I'll start that build in 07, once we pare down the stable and get rid of a couple cars.

R

[Z3_GoCar]

.....My next car will be for ITR and I'll start that build in 07, once we pare down the stable and get rid of a couple cars.

R
[/b]


Let me guess, odd roadster, it'll have to be another Z3 :D

But then again, your love of Fords may be your downfall :P so it maybe a Taurus SHO. Am I close??
BTW, good luck with the rebuild.

[Ron Earp]

Let me guess, odd roadster, it'll have to be another Z3 :D

But then again, your love of Fords may be your downfall :P so it maybe a Taurus SHO. Am I close??
BTW, good luck with the rebuild.
[/b]

Well, on the Ford forum I promised to build an ITR Mustang if they put those in the class, so, I suppose I'd do that (as did four other people - far more than any other ITR car, it'd have a following from the start). I don't think it'd be a winner, but it'd be a lot of fun, be reliable, and I already know a lot about the motor and car. And it'd be cheap, relatively speaking.

Too bad the SHO is FWD, and the other fast Fords in there like the Contour SVT. Friends don't let friends drive FWD cars.

If they don't put those in then I'm looking at a Z32. It'll be really fast, can win, and won't cost a huge fortune (again, all relative).

R