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Adroitracer
05-10-2006, 11:34 PM
Hello all!!!

I am new to the group. I recently purchased a 93 bmw 325is (with limited slip) with the intention of turning it into an ITS car. Can anyone here give me a rundown on the basics of things to do.

I have already replaced...
Shocks (went to bilstien sports for the time being) Control arms and bushings, trailing arms and bushings, sway bar bushings and links, guibo. The drivetrain looks really solid, and subframe is in tact (does not have the reinforcements installed). I am trying to get all the rules figured out before I begin making big changes to the car.

I have purchased the entire suspension(shocks included) and braking system (including master cylinder) from an e36 M3, but do not know which parts I can use and which I cannot. I would love to use the brakes, but from what I read we have to use the stock size rotors and master cylinder. Any advice would be very helpful.

Looking for info on tire/wheel options, roll cages, brakes, seats.....basically anything people can throw at me.

zracre
05-11-2006, 12:02 AM
best bet is to go here...

http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/ImprovedTouring.pdf

Fastfred92
05-11-2006, 10:09 AM
Even better option:
http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/200...rules060403.pdf (http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/2006Series/Rules/2006BMWCRrules060403.pdf)

BMW club racing is a much better option for this car now.....

Bill Miller
05-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Even better option:
http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/200...rules060403.pdf (http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/2006Series/Rules/2006BMWCRrules060403.pdf)

BMW club racing is a much better option for this car now.....
[/b]


Real nice Fred, nothing like steering people away from the SCCA. :(

dj10
05-11-2006, 11:31 AM
Real nice Fred, nothing like steering people away from the SCCA. :( [/b]

Man, I'm saying out of this one! :D

RSTPerformance
05-11-2006, 12:30 PM
Adroitracer-

While I respect Freds opinion, and the fact that these forums are NOT SCCA forums specific, I strongly disagree with Freds comments.

I will agree that the BMW Club is fun and has a great group of people, but I wouldn't agree that it is better than SCCA. It is a totaly different caliber of racing than SCCA. IMO if you want to go racing and compete in the most professional "club" races with the best group of people then come play in SCCA. As a beginer you will find a lot of more knowledgable people around to help. Also if you do prove to be a great driver and if you or your crew can set up your car well, then I think you could still easily see this car on the podium!!!

Don't be fooled by the bitter BMW drivers on these forums whom can't drive or set up their cars well enough to compete with a car that is far more competitive (even with an SIR) than 90% of the other cars classed in ITS.

Good luck, and if you ever need any help with SCCA stuff feel free to send me a PM;

Raymond Blethen

Bill Miller
05-11-2006, 02:00 PM
Don't be fooled by the bitter BMW drivers on these forums whom can't drive or set up their cars well enough to compete with a car that is far more competitive (even with an SIR) than 90% of the other cars classed in ITS.




[/b]

:023:

buldogge
05-11-2006, 03:40 PM
Do's and Don'ts for 2006

Do Sling mud at BMW drivers whenever possible.

Don't You dare bring up the SIR discussion ever again.

:015:



:023:
[/b]

Fastfred92
05-11-2006, 04:11 PM
Adroitracer-


Don't be fooled by the bitter BMW drivers on these forums whom can't drive or set up their cars well enough to compete with a car that is far more competitive (even with an SIR) than 90% of the other cars classed in ITS.

[/b]

Whoa, Raymond...... Just offering friendly advice to someone who wants to start racing in a car that is not currently very beginner friendly in the SCCA! I would dare say plenty BMW drivers did a decent job setting up and driving their BMW 325's to the point that we are at now. If you remember back to when you started wheel to wheel racing would you have wanted to contend with a SIR ? Bill, As for SCCA I choose to compete in SCCA myself and have for years, dont have much interest in BMW club racing myself but it is a great place to start and for him without the red tape and stigma that a e36 has here in the club.

And as for the e36 being more competitive than 90% of the other cars in ITS that remains to be seen... but nobody could argue that a e36 has hurdles here in SCCA that it does not have elsewhere

RSTPerformance
05-11-2006, 05:49 PM
Fred-

I appreciate your re-post and support for SCCA... I think it shows a different light than your first and original post.



but nobody could argue that a e36 has hurdles here in SCCA that it does not have elsewhere
[/b]

We might not be able to argue that it HAD some CHANGES. The reason that the car has not had changes in other organizations is because it was classed correctly in those other organizations in the begining of their process, or those other organizations don't care if it wins all the time. The "problem" that existed here in SCCA is that it was NOT classified correctly when it was added to the field of eligable cars. If the (Not mentioning the name) was implimented when the car was classified, we would not have any of the issues or hurdles you speak of. Thus for a new person coming in, lets not discourage him/her to race with us, let them come with into the club with the "new" ways things are and not corrupt them with the past mistakes.

Raymond

PS: I would far prefer a stock BMW with an SIR in ITS over a stock Audi Coupe in ITB, we wont go thier. Also as an FYI I would prefer a Fully Prepped BMW with an SIR over my very competitive Audi Coupe in ITB.

BobsAuto
05-12-2006, 06:37 PM
PS: I would far prefer a stock BMW with an SIR in ITS over a stock Audi Coupe in ITB, we wont go thier. Also as an FYI I would prefer a Fully Prepped BMW with an SIR over my very competitive Audi Coupe in ITB.
[/b]

Did I just actually read what I read from my Audi devoted son? I think I will never be surprised about anything you kids come up with again. I should have known that 28 years ago, but I keep thinking you guys may become predictable. Guess not. So, IMHO, your racing competitors should NEVER think they have you and your brother figured out, because if your parents can't predict what you will do, NO ONE can!

:wacko: :wacko:

mlytle
05-13-2006, 10:45 PM
Don't be fooled by the bitter BMW drivers on these forums whom can't drive or set up their cars well enough to compete with a car that is far more competitive (even with an SIR) than 90% of the other cars classed in ITS.


Raymond Blethen
[/b]

why do the non-bmw folks basically keep saying at every opportunity that all of us bmw folks are incompetent and drive underprepared pos's? enough with the generalizations! most of the bmw folks here actually can drive well and have well prepared cars. please stop this bs.

and good answer fred! bmwcca cr is a much better place for a new racer. simpler rules. until somebody figures out how to do an sir, beginners shouldn't deal with scca.


i am not bitter, just taking this opportunity to try other places to race than ITS.
sitting in the trailer at VIR right now at the SARRC/MARRS race...having an interesting time in ITE.

marshall
BMW 325is, ITE #64..massive underdog

Z3_GoCar
05-13-2006, 11:44 PM
Marshall,

I can certainly understand where you're comming from as far as running ITE with a 325, even give a full WC prep for a 2.5l and CF body panels, short of making swiss cheese of the car thare's just not that much that can be taken out or added to make a 325 more competitive aginst a Z-06, Vipper, or an Evo, All have much more than 400hp. Yet because of no where else it'll be where I start later this season. I choose to run SCCA because of the universally respected licsense. One thing that I dislike is the red mist aspect, where someone pulls a real bone headed move and wipes others out, I just don't feel like it gets punished hard enough like it does in other clubs, after all we're out there for fun and to win a glorifyed bowling trophy doesn't justify destroying mine or my competitors cars. Still I hope you have fun at VIR this weekend.

I guess with the current controversy concerning the e-36 325 there are issues starting with a street car and slowly progressing into a well prepared car. So in the end I would suggest finding an already prepared car and buying into a race car instead of building one. This has several advantages including prior set up and spare parts. The down side is sometimes there are kluges or jimmy(jerry) rigged repairs made that while field expedient latter cause problems. Another route you could take would be to just run the car with out actually preparing it to be legal, just meet the safety requirements and when you invest in a racing engine, strip the emmissions equiptment, and start doing chassis prep, then worry about making your car legal. Just some ideas on how one might proceed as a novice. In the end it's your decision on how to go.

James

Eagle7
05-14-2006, 09:28 AM
why do the non-bmw folks basically keep saying at every opportunity that all of us bmw folks are incompetent and drive underprepared pos's? enough with the generalizations! most of the bmw folks here actually can drive well and have well prepared cars. please stop this bs.[/b]
I totally agree, although I don't think that's what Raymond was saying. I'm confident that some of the best drivers in the club are driving fully prepped bimmers, and I have a great deal of respect for them. Its always a dis-service when generalizations are made. Actually, your statement includes some generalizations that I think are not accurate.

I'm guessing its a reaction to a few that say "You/They really screwed me - no way can I run up front any more, so I'll go somewhere else." If the statement is accurate (could run up front before, but not now), then the natural conclusion would be that either they aren't a front running driver or they don't have a fully prepped car. Of course, the choice to not prep it to the new rules for other reasons is a different situation.

I don't have any problem with those out there who aren't front running drivers and/or don't have fully prepped cars. On the contrary, I'm one of them. The difference is that I don't feel an entitlement to win races. There are some bimmer owners out there (I hope and honestly think it is a small minority) that do seem to express that entitlement on this board. It always makes me feel good when they get put in their place by one of the bimmer owners rather than a non-bimmer guy.

mlytle
05-15-2006, 06:18 PM
One thing that I dislike is the red mist aspect, where someone pulls a real bone headed move and wipes others out, I just don't feel like it gets punished hard enough like it does in other clubs, after all we're out there for fun and to win a glorifyed bowling trophy doesn't justify destroying mine or my competitors cars. [/b]

i gotta agree on this one whole-heartedly. just this past weekend at the vir scca race i watched someone get blantantly punted off the track by a car in another class. this was on the last lap of the race, while the victim was running in third place in class with 4th and fifth right on his heels. in car video, witnesses, big dent in car...all kinds of evidence. took it to the protest room due to the impact to his position in the series. stewards dismissed it as an "acceptable racing incident". wtf???? that kind of conduct in bmwcca cr would have resulted in dsq and 13 month probation. i know scca doesn't have a 13/13 rule, but blatant metal to metal (by a different class of car that had no competition in sight) which cost someone a race and series points is unacceptable.

Bill Miller
05-15-2006, 06:31 PM
Stewards saying contact is acceptable? WTF???

dj10
05-15-2006, 08:23 PM
i gotta agree on this one whole-heartedly. just this past weekend at the vir scca race i watched someone get blantantly punted off the track by a car in another class. this was on the last lap of the race, while the victim was running in third place in class with 4th and fifth right on his heels. in car video, witnesses, big dent in car...all kinds of evidence. took it to the protest room due to the impact to his position in the series. stewards dismissed it as an "acceptable racing incident". wtf???? that kind of conduct in bmwcca cr would have resulted in dsq and 13 month probation. i know scca doesn't have a 13/13 rule, but blatant metal to metal (by a different class of car that had no competition in sight) which cost someone a race and series points is unacceptable. [/b]

Sounds like a good case for an appeal.

x-ring
05-16-2006, 07:28 AM
Post the guy's name, I'll send him the $25.

Fastfred92
05-16-2006, 08:42 AM
I dont like to see unreasonable contact but I would not like to see a 13/13 SCCA, part of the reason I enjoy SCCA over PCA or BMWCCA is the CLOSE racing. Back to the original post, the e36 325 is dead in ITS for now! Congrats to SteveE at VIR on ITS wins this past weekend but what a dead race... SteveE checked out then rode around to the end for a easy win over a quick Z car and a surprising GSR.. Not what we have seen in the past when the e36 guys were in. BTW SteveE also dropped another 2:14 in Q near that famous time posted by that orange BMW ( same race, same time of the year Andy at a HP track ) I still contend that for a novice racer who insists on a e36 325 go start in BMWCCR, get yourself and car up to speed and then see what the future holds for you in SCCA.

Lets just move on and get ITR going soon........... And for the e36 guys running ITE, why not move over to SPU and atleast not have to deal with the Vipers and Vettes

mlytle
05-16-2006, 12:29 PM
I dont like to see unreasonable contact but I would not like to see a 13/13 SCCA, part of the reason I enjoy SCCA over PCA or BMWCCA is the CLOSE racing. Back to the original post, the e36 325 is dead in ITS for now! Congrats to SteveE at VIR on ITS wins this past weekend but what a dead race... SteveE checked out then rode around to the end for a easy win over a quick Z car and a surprising GSR.. Not what we have seen in the past when the e36 guys were in. BTW SteveE also dropped another 2:14 in Q near that famous time posted by that orange BMW ( same race, same time of the year Andy at a HP track ) I still contend that for a novice racer who insists on a e36 325 go start in BMWCCR, get yourself and car up to speed and then see what the future holds for you in SCCA.

Lets just move on and get ITR going soon........... And for the e36 guys running ITE, why not move over to SPU and atleast not have to deal with the Vipers and Vettes
[/b]

i agree, i was not advocating a 13/13 in scca...just that really bad conduct be dealt with.

can we run in spu? never thought of that...time to pull out the rule book...;-)

seckerich
05-16-2006, 01:06 PM
i agree, i was not advocating a 13/13 in scca...just that really bad conduct be dealt with.

can we run in spu? never thought of that...time to pull out the rule book...;-)
[/b]
Just make sure you have a cell and a fire system and you are good to go.



I dont like to see unreasonable contact but I would not like to see a 13/13 SCCA, part of the reason I enjoy SCCA over PCA or BMWCCA is the CLOSE racing. Back to the original post, the e36 325 is dead in ITS for now! Congrats to SteveE at VIR on ITS wins this past weekend but what a dead race... SteveE checked out then rode around to the end for a easy win over a quick Z car and a surprising GSR.. Not what we have seen in the past when the e36 guys were in. BTW SteveE also dropped another 2:14 in Q near that famous time posted by that orange BMW ( same race, same time of the year Andy at a HP track ) I still contend that for a novice racer who insists on a e36 325 go start in BMWCCR, get yourself and car up to speed and then see what the future holds for you in SCCA.

Lets just move on and get ITR going soon........... And for the e36 guys running ITE, why not move over to SPU and atleast not have to deal with the Vipers and Vettes
[/b]
Have you looked at the Moroso results? Doesn't look dead to me.

JLawton
05-16-2006, 01:38 PM
Have you looked at the Moroso results? Doesn't look dead to me.
[/b]


It's certainly not dead in New England............

Fastfred92
05-16-2006, 02:15 PM
Can anybody post results or links for some post SIR e36 results that also included bad ass fast RX7 guys like SteveE in the field as well?

It would be interesting to see how those times compare to same car same track last year...

seckerich
05-16-2006, 02:42 PM
Can anybody post results or links for some post SIR e36 results that also included bad ass fast RX7 guys like SteveE in the field as well?

It would be interesting to see how those times compare to same car same track last year...
[/b]
I will take that as a compliment Fred. I was sending you to the results from Moroso because Carlos Garcia and Buzz Marcus have had some great battles in the past and it continues today. Buzz is as much 10/10ths Speedsource as they get and is a wicked fast driver. Carlos won. Buzz won Saturday but Garcia started last. I don't see the death yet as I said.

Doc Bro
05-16-2006, 03:09 PM
It's certainly not dead in New England............
[/b]


Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R

Fastfred92
05-16-2006, 03:25 PM
I will take that as a compliment Fred. [/b]

Compliment intended !!! You and Carlos have had some great battles as well! My opinion of Moroso is that it is not a HP track as much as a handling track, disagree?

mlytle
05-16-2006, 03:47 PM
Just make sure you have a cell and a fire system and you are good to go.

[/b]

got a fire system, but no cell..oh well! :)

seckerich
05-16-2006, 03:56 PM
Compliment intended !!! You and Carlos have had some great battles as well! My opinion of Moroso is that it is not a HP track as much as a handling track, disagree?
[/b]
True, but the SIR does not really come in until the top end and has little effect on the low end grunt. Carlos has the SIR in the right place to make it work. I have not seen other installations so have no grounds to comment. If it is installed per some conversations on this board it will kill the car. I would expect it to take some time to work out and agree it is a screwed up season for all involved with mid-year implementation. I want good close racing however that works out. Now I will quit stealing a thread and move to SIR discussion where this should be discussed.

BMW RACER
05-16-2006, 08:17 PM
If they are going 6 seconds a lap slower I think they are doing something wrong. At 1.6 mile Buttonwillow I lost 1.4 seconds. But I'll reserve my judgement until June 3rd when I run California Speedway which is a real Dyno test.

JLawton
05-17-2006, 06:25 AM
Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R
[/b]


Watch out Rob, the sky is falling!!

Can't judge it on one race and one car............ Waaaaay too many variables.......

And I'm sure the 325s will survive in New England. Much different tracks than Pocono

Stan
05-17-2006, 08:01 AM
Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. They worked their a$$es off and found some time but they felt it none the less. ANYONE who knows Dave knows he's an excellent driver and those reults reflect the SIR not him.

My feelings regarding the SIR have totally changed. This is technology is unproven in this car and will have negative effect on the e36 car counts in the SCCA.

R
[/b]
Are you sure that it wasn't Don Maynard at Pocono? Bob Dowie from the CRB was there and told me that Don was 6 sec off last year's times. Bob was concerned about why, so offered to check out their installation (Bob did much of the initial e36 SIR testing on his chassis dyno). It turned out the team had the SIR installed backwards and in the wrong place. Now that they know what will work better they are excited about going to NHIS.

Doc Bro
05-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Watch out Rob, the sky is falling!!

Can't judge it on one race and one car............ Waaaaay too many variables.......

And I'm sure the 325s will survive in New England. Much different tracks than Pocono
[/b]


Jeff, my approach to life in general is never calamity or reactionary. (Hell, I employ a dozen women...if that doens't teach patience nothing will). And, I don't believe the sky is falling.

However, what I did get was a good glimpse of what this thing REALLY means to people and the frustration associated with it. I also got to witness other ITS guys coming over to lend a hand and help for the spirit of competition. They "missed" the guy they were racing with. They reaction by them was the same....this stinks. Certainly not the groundswell of you got yours. take that.

If we get to witness this first hand (for a hobby mind you) we may feel differently. If the SIR was put to "police" southern e36's that were suspected of being illegal then this is not proper. The way to police ilegality is with paper not aluminum.

I understand the process and the e36's relation to it but the process has usually used weight as the adjuster.

Besides, how come everyone always says "competitivenes of a car is not guaranteed?" when it comes to a dog but not when it comes to a thoroughbred. It's ok to get your butt kicked everyweekend but not to do good everyweekend???


my thoughts

R

Andy Bettencourt
05-17-2006, 08:44 AM
However, what I did get was a good glimpse of what this thing REALLY means to people and the frustration associated with it. I also got to witness other ITS guys coming over to lend a hand and help for the spirit of competition. They "missed" the guy they were racing with. They reaction by them was the same....this stinks. Certainly not the groundswell of you got yours. take that.

If we get to witness this first hand (for a hobby mind you) we may feel differently. If the SIR was put to "police" southern e36's that were suspected of being illegal then this is not proper. The way to police ilegality is with paper not aluminum.

R [/b]

The CRB did not spec the SIR because of any thoughts on cheaters. The decision boils down to a few key items:

A full IT-spec E36 325 WILL make in excess of 200whp.
If the spec weight of 2850 was to be kept, the HP had to be limited to around 185whp (while retaining 170+ ftlbs at the wheels).
The CRB's testing showed that 18whp came off every example they strapped to the rollers (in 29mm form). That nails their goal. Weights are set at top prep - so this is no different - it's just reverse engineered.

I am not a fan of the SIR because of this exact situation. There are no nicer people than the Maynards. It's a family team who busts their collective behinds to race a ton and have fun. Yes, they have an underprepped car (engine) and a excellent young driver - and they are top 3-5 material in 15-20 car ITS fields...BUT when this throws them to the back, the fun goes away. Bad thing IMHO.

Some will tell you that a 3150-3200 spec weight would have done the same, but I don't think so.

Did everyone feel bad for them? You bet. But when push comes to shove, and everyone around you has to have pro engines to compete for a podium, you should too. Is that in the original spirit of IT - nope - but it is a reality.

If the ITR concept goes through, it will provide a place for the E36's - WITHIN the process - at 2750ish...unrestricted. Write your letters.

AB

Fastfred92
05-17-2006, 09:21 AM
Hello all!!!

I am new to the group. I recently purchased a 93 bmw 325is (with limited slip) with the intention of turning it into an ITS car. Can anyone here give me a rundown on the basics of things to do.
[/b]

After all the flames, back to the guys orginal question.... Your car with the addition of safety equipment is ready to go BMW club racing in JP or possibly JS ( not sure about what shocks are legal in JS ) Wheels and tires are free in JP and a full on ITS car would be legal in JP without SIR hassles. You could get your safety gear ( cage, fire, good seat, belts, net etc. ) installed in a few weekends and be on track in short order. Get a simple lap timer, get some seat time as you continue to develop your car and see what the future holds for the e36 325 here in the SCCA. Most important part of our hobby is be safe and have fun, right now not many e36 guys are having fun in SCCA but that is subject to change.....

mlytle
05-17-2006, 11:33 AM
If the ITR concept goes through, it will provide a place for the E36's - WITHIN the process - at 2750ish...unrestricted. Write your letters.

AB
[/b]

this is also a key factor in whether or not to deal with an sir this year. if the e36 will be reclassified into itr next year, then there is no point in investing the effort into dealing with an sir this year that will be thrown away at the end of the season.

too many question marks with scca for the e36, which is why it is best for someone just starting racing with an e36 to play in other venues for now until the dust settles.

JeffYoung
05-17-2006, 12:51 PM
I have to agree. The car's status is unsettled. No guarantee it will be the topdog in ITR either, as it was in ITS.

Andy Bettencourt
05-17-2006, 01:42 PM
It's all personal preference. ITR is by no means a done deal so throwing away a season while waiting and not developing, may just be that, throwing a season away.

AB

buldogge
05-17-2006, 01:55 PM
Hey Jeff... Is the intent to completely re-classify the E36 or to present the option of running ITS (with SIR) or ITR (without and at a lower weight which may or may not be attainable)???



I have to agree. The car's status is unsettled. No guarantee it will be the topdog in ITR either, as it was in ITS.
[/b]

DoubleXL240Z
05-17-2006, 03:21 PM
Andy,
Why would target hp be at 185@2850, when top level RX7s are at
180-185hp @2680. Wouldn't 10-13 hp equal out a 170 lb. weight disparity.
Just lookin at numbers.
Thanks,
Chris

Andy Bettencourt
05-17-2006, 04:21 PM
Andy,
Why would target hp be at 185@2850, when top level RX7s are at
180-185hp @2680. Wouldn't 10-13 hp equal out a 170 lb. weight disparity.
Just lookin at numbers.
Thanks,
Chris [/b]

You have to look at everything. Not validating your RX-7 numbers but the HP levels should be close. Remember, the Bimmer has 50 more ft/lbs of torque at the wheels, has great brakes and has a 1:1 5th gear. I would take that 170 lbs with those attributes every day of the week.

AB

dj10
05-17-2006, 04:59 PM
Andy,
Why would target hp be at 185@2850, when top level RX7s are at
180-185hp @2680. Wouldn't 10-13 hp equal out a 170 lb. weight disparity.
Just lookin at numbers.
Thanks,
Chris [/b]

I could of swore that the dyno numbers for the top running rx7's were 166 hp based on dyno jet numbers? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Bill Miller
05-17-2006, 05:07 PM
Hey Jeff... Is the intent to completely re-classify the E36 or to present the option of running ITS (with SIR) or ITR (without and at a lower weight which may or may not be attainable)???
[/b]


Mark,

What we (the ITR group) have discussed, is moving the E36 325 to ITR, w/o any restrictor, and at a lower weight than it currently runs in ITS (2700-2750# IIRC).

seckerich
05-17-2006, 05:41 PM
I could of swore that the dyno numbers for the top running rx7's were 166 hp based on dyno jet numbers? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[/b]
You are now corrected--175-181 give or take the dyno operator. 126-129 torque on a good day with the stars all in line. :D

mlytle
05-17-2006, 07:26 PM
It's all personal preference. ITR is by no means a done deal so throwing away a season while waiting and not developing, may just be that, throwing a season away.

AB
[/b]
totally agree andy. personal preference. wouldn't call it throwing a season away though....more like an opportunity to have fun elsewhere! just choosing where to best invest the racing dollars.

zracre
05-17-2006, 08:17 PM
You are now corrected--175-181 give or take the dyno operator. 126-129 torque on a good day with the stars all in line. :D
[/b]

on the best of days an Acura Integra GSR could have those numbers...then give it tiny brakes make it front wheel drive and a lousy 5th gear...oh yea and add 10# just to make sure it doesnt fade out its brakes fast enough :o

gpeluso
05-17-2006, 08:51 PM
I could of swore that the dyno numbers for the top running rx7's were 166 hp based on dyno jet numbers? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[/b]


DJ,

2 weeks ago at an EMRA race an ITS RX7 owner was excited about the new (computer/software??) in his car that is giving him over 190 HP on the dyno. He said he purchased the same thing that FlatOuts car was running last year. I laughed and told him not to let the other BMW guys know what type of numbers he has. He is a really good driver and will be a force in the Pocono area. Look out for that RX7.

Greg

Andy Bettencourt
05-17-2006, 09:29 PM
DJ,

2 weeks ago at an EMRA race an ITS RX7 owner was excited about the new (computer/software??) in his car that is giving him over 190 HP on the dyno. He said he purchased the same thing that FlatOuts car was running last year. I laughed and told him not to let the other BMW guys know what type of numbers he has. He is a really good driver and will be a force in the Pocono area. Look out for that RX7.

Greg [/b]

Greg,

I don't know where you are getting your info but that person most certainly isn't running what we are for CPU and software - guaranteed. I am betting you have your story mixed up in a big way or someone is blowing smoke up your a$$.

Tough to look out for "that" RX-7 when you don't name the driver or the car. :rolleyes:

There are guys on this site with full blown 13B efforts and will laugh in your face at that number. I have actually seen dyno pulls like that for some cars but the origin of the rotor housings were totally unknown by the car owners - and I am sure I don't have to tell you what that could mean.

AB

its66
05-17-2006, 10:23 PM
Greg,

I don't know where you are getting your info but that person most certainly isn't running what we are for CPU and software - guaranteed. I am betting you have your story mixed up in a big way or someone is blowing smoke up your a$$.

Tough to look out for "that" RX-7 when you don't name the driver or the car. :rolleyes:

There are guys on this site with full blown 13B efforts and will laugh in your face at that number. I have actually seen dyno pulls like that for some cars but the origin of the rotor housings were totally unknown by the car owners - and I am sure I don't have to tell you what that could mean.

AB
[/b]

You couldn't mean ME, could you? SS car, SS exhaust, SS engine, etc, etc, etc. 174.XX hp @~8000. 124 lb/ft. The dyno operator told me that was about where the strong other 7's were which he had tested. He had also done many pulls with an ITS Integra. For reference, he said those numbers were over 180. Sorry, but he wouldn't give me copies of my competition's dyno plots for some reason. (yes, hearsay, rumor, etc)

***disclaimer..general consensus is that this dyno may read slightly higher than some other dynos***

Either way, I'd love to have 190. (legally) So would Steve, Buzz, Hollywood, etc.

I too suspect the blowing smoke scenerio.



zracre Posted Today, 08:17 PM
QUOTE(seckerich @ May 17 2006, 05:41 PM)

You are now corrected--175-181 give or take the dyno operator. 126-129 torque on a good day with the stars all in line.



on the best of days an Acura Integra GSR could have those numbers...then give it tiny brakes make it front wheel drive and a lousy 5th gear...oh yea and add 10# just to make sure it doesnt fade out its brakes fast enough
0.79.....That's not so bad, we RX7 boys have to shell out serious money just to get a .757. I wouldn't mind having a .79 5th gear. :D

Evan,
Are you planning Sebring next month?

Banzai240
05-17-2006, 10:35 PM
Untrue Jeff,
You weren't at Pocono which was the first SIR race in NER. Only one e36 was present. Dave and the 3D Team. With the SIR they were 6 sec/lap slower than last years times. [/b]


Yah... and now we find out that they had the damn thing in BACKWARDS!

Talk to Andy about how "slow" the E36 is with an SIR... :rolleyes: How did Kip do with the SIR installation that Andy asked him to try???

zracre
05-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Jim,

Im going to New England that weekend for my sisters birthday (its a big one) and to visit the rents. I am doing the NASA race at moroso this weekend then RA in July.

Would you trade that 5th gear for puny brakes and front wheel drive?

its66
05-17-2006, 10:58 PM
:D ..nah no trade. I won't argue that front drive cars work the front tires, suspension, brakes harder than the rear drive cars do. That's why I bought a rear drive car :P I just don't feel that the .79 5th gear is as much a disadvantage as you do. Looking through the ITCS, there are a few cars with better 5th gear ratios(the 7 isn't one of them though)....

See ya back out there soon.

gpeluso
05-18-2006, 07:22 AM
Greg,

I don't know where you are getting your info but that person most certainly isn't running what we are for CPU and software - guaranteed. I am betting you have your story mixed up in a big way or someone is blowing smoke up your a$$.

Tough to look out for "that" RX-7 when you don't name the driver or the car. :rolleyes:

There are guys on this site with full blown 13B efforts and will laugh in your face at that number. I have actually seen dyno pulls like that for some cars but the origin of the rotor housings were totally unknown by the car owners - and I am sure I don't have to tell you what that could mean.

AB
[/b]

AB,
I am just repeating what the driver told me. He has a red RX7 with the number 69. He is a great driver and will do well. No MIX-UPS on my part.
Greg

Stan
05-18-2006, 12:36 PM
I need to apologise to Dan Maynard, both for using his name, as well as getting some of the facts wrong in a post I made yesterday. I should not have used his name to illustrate my point that orientation and placement of the SIR is critical in MAF-based applications, and apologise for any embarrassment I may have caused Dan and his team.

Doc Bro
05-18-2006, 02:03 PM
I need to apologise to Dan Maynard, both for using his name, as well as getting some of the facts wrong in a post I made yesterday. I should not have used his name to illustrate my point that orientation and placement of the SIR is critical in MAF-based applications, and apologise for any embarrassment I may have caused Dan and his team.
[/b]


WOW, A gentleman. Thanks for leading by example Stan. :happy204:

Point is, the SIR doesn't even come with directions or tips or anything. Just a box. Have at it!

50% of us would mount the thing in backwards.....simple math...

R

Bill Miller
05-18-2006, 02:21 PM
WOW, A gentleman. Thanks for leading by example Stan. :happy204:

Point is, the SIR doesn't even come with directions or tips or anything. Just a box. Have at it!

50% of us would mount the thing in backwards.....simple math...

R
[/b]


Rob,

I'm not trying to cast aspersions (sp?) on anyone, but looking at the Raetech webpage for the GTL SIRs for about 2 min. would seem to make it pretty obvious as to which is the front and which is the back. They've got two different types, a bell inlet variety and a hose inlet variety. Not that hard to figure out what's different between the two.

dj10
05-18-2006, 03:41 PM
You are now corrected--175-181 give or take the dyno operator. 126-129 torque on a good day with the stars all in line. :D [/b]

Steve, these numbers are from a dyno jet with or with out motec?

SIR's have a arrow on them to show you the air flow. At least mine does.

Bob Dowie
05-18-2006, 06:25 PM
I have to agree with Rob on this. The inlet of an SIR is not obvious to even the most experienced auto tech. I've been fixing cars for 30 years and it certainly wasn't obvious to me when I first saw one. This is an easy mistake to make.

While Bill's right that a call to the supplier or a trip to their web site would have helped but it's still unfortunate that the Maynard's struggled all weekend with something that could have been easily avoided. DJ's has an arrow to indicate flow but none of mine do so that must have been added later. I will contact the suppliers and ask that a sheet be included with the units to avoid this in the future. I've also been negligent in getting an article done for Sports Car that would better explain the new restrictors and maybe would have saved their weekend. If anyone should be embarrassed its me.

I'll join Stan in offering my apologies to the Maynard's. While I haven't had the pleasure of meeting them yet, they have a level of respect both on the track and in the paddock that few enjoy. This shows in their willingness to work with the restrictor. I wish them nothing but good luck in the future.

Bob Dowie

dj10
05-18-2006, 07:43 PM
While on the topic of the SIR, it may interest you, or not, that while testing the SIR with Chuck Stickly we found like others that it connects and runs easily between the AFM & TB. Chuck then decided to test the SIR in front of the AFM. You know that directly in front the car won't run but if you use a 3 ft. hose you will actually get a better effect in regards to HP you can pickup another 2 hp. Is it practical? I think (IMO) not due to the time of installation and trying to find a good route to mount this and the air filter.

Z3_GoCar
05-18-2006, 09:37 PM
While on the topic of the SIR, it may interest you, or not, that while testing the SIR with Chuck Stickly we found like others that it connects and runs easily between the AFM & TB. Chuck then decided to test the SIR in front of the AFM. You know that directly in front the car won't run but if you use a 3 ft. hose you will actually get a better effect in regards to HP you can pickup another 2 hp. Is it practical? I think (IMO) not due to the time of installation and trying to find a good route to mount this and the air filter.
[/b]

DJ,

It's not just the length but the volume within the tube that helps. As the air is compressible you'd want the greatest volume to absorb the unsteady flow. What you want is a "stock" type air box with a long intake tube leading to the SIR at the end.

James

seckerich
05-19-2006, 12:01 AM
Steve, these numbers are from a dyno jet with or with out motec?

SIR's have a arrow on them to show you the air flow. At least mine does.
[/b]
Dynojet with SAE correction and Motec.

dj10
05-19-2006, 07:13 AM
DJ,

It's not just the length but the volume within the tube that helps. As the air is compressible you'd want the greatest volume to absorb the unsteady flow. What you want is a "stock" type air box with a long intake tube leading to the SIR at the end.

James [/b]

James,
I understand the reservoir principal and this was discussed. Althought you might benefit initially the amount of air the engine needs will give way to the restriction of the SIR. Problems like location & space complicate this, being a production vehicle.
While testing Chuck actuall felt the intake hose collapsing in his hand as the engine speed was increased. So use a good hose.
Dan

tom_sprecher
05-19-2006, 09:34 AM
Adroitracer - welcome to this forum where a simple request for help and advice can rather quickly be hijacked and turned into a tit for tat about this car vs. that car.

Except for steering this poor guy to the GCR and telling him to get a fire supression sysytem do you guys have any other helpful info specific to HIS car? Maybe links to parts sources, BMW prep shopd in his area, other SCCA racer in his Division he might want to talk to at the track, etc.

Maybe these have been covered but I could not sift it out from all the SIR BS, HP ratings or e36 vs. Joe Blow's (insert model) race car.

mlytle
05-19-2006, 10:19 AM
:lol:

Adroitracer - welcome to this forum where a simple request for help and advice can rather quickly be hijacked and turned into a tit for tat about this car vs. that car.

Except for steering this poor guy to the GCR and telling him to get a fire supression sysytem do you guys have any other helpful info specific to HIS car? Maybe links to parts sources, BMW prep shopd in his area, other SCCA racer in his Division he might want to talk to at the track, etc.

Maybe these have been covered but I could not sift it out from all the SIR BS, HP ratings or e36 vs. Joe Blow's (insert model) race car.
[/b]

what, stay on topic for more than two posts? this is it.com, isn't it? :023:

it would certainly help if adroit mentioned where in the country he is. didn't see it in his sig. it would be most useful for him to talk with a scca or bmwcca racer in person and go over their car. he has too many basic questions to handle on a forum.

benspeed
05-19-2006, 11:46 AM
I could of swore that the dyno numbers for the top running rx7's were 166 hp based on dyno jet numbers? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[/b]

My 89 RX7 did 180 hp - S5 motor 10/10ths prep level. Hopefully will be sold this weekend...SPO car is done and ready for some testing at LRP.

robits325is
05-19-2006, 12:22 PM
My 89 RX7 did 180 hp - S5 motor 10/10ths prep level. Hopefully will be sold this weekend...SPO car is done and ready for some testing at LRP.
[/b]

Come on Ben - Keep them both!! Just get a two car trailer.

benspeed
05-19-2006, 12:39 PM
No can do! Too much $$ to run 2 cars - plus my trailer is brand new!

I thought the E46 was a good match - great races with Jeff in the rain. That car sounds killer. Results from Pocono are now up on MyLaps.

Jeff - hope the motor fix wasn't much $$.