Glow in the dark Vinyl...

[RSTPerformance]

Anyone have a source or an idea where to find 24" rolls???

Raymond

[lateapex911]

where'd you see it? you're not refering to the number plates like the ALMS cars have at night?

[RSTPerformance]

would like to do something similar....

[lateapex911]

It's very cool stuff. I used it when i was building show and prototype cars for dashboards and stuff. Give it some volts and it lights up well, and is very thin. But $$$$$. THere is a VERY reflective adhesive backed material, like you see on trucks in the red/white pattern, and I remember the Racers Group porsches used it, but it is huge money as well.

[Ron Earp]

If you are referring to the lighted type they are electroluminescent polymers that are driven by a DC/AC inverter in most cases. I've got some of the stuff although it is pricey. Comes in many colors, blue and green being very bright due to efficiency and not using an intermediate fluorophore to shift the output wavelength dramatically.

You'll find it a number of places, but make sure you match impedance of the driver with the panels - I fried the inverter in car #43 at the past 13hr enduro which caused the car driver some headache on the qualifying grid. Smoke and bad smells are not what you want before a night qualifying.

R

[JohnRW]

You'll find it a number of places, but make sure you match impedance of the driver with the panels - [/b]

So...I'm sitting here with an ohm-meter...one probe jammed in my mouth...the other someplace 'uncomfortable'. What voltage do these things run at, so I can calculate my 'impedance' ?

[JamesB]

hhahaha, I think he means the DC/AC driver, not the nut behind the wheel.

[bldn10]

"THere is a VERY reflective adhesive backed material, like you see on trucks in the red/white pattern, and I remember the Racers Group porsches used it, but it is huge money as well."

Be careful where you use it: "Metallic (reflective) numbers and class letters are prohibited." GCR 17.5.2.

[Marcus Miller]

King rat motorsports sells the lighted panels. expensive....
http://www.kingratmotorsports.com/products.php

Marcus

[Knestis]

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/enduro04/darkpit2.jpg

We use ScotchLite panels for our numbers. It's a common reflective - not glow-in-the-dark or photoluminescent - vinyl film, used on street signs. It's not awful expensive and is readily available in up to 24" width. I order it in cut pieces from a place that has an eBay store.

K

[RSTPerformance]

ok, I spent a lot of time looking stuff up...

The ScotchLite stuff looks like you can find it for as low as about $10.00 - $15.00 a yard.

The electroluminescent stuff is friggen way awsome!!! Sent out some e-mails to a few companies to get some costs, and brainstorm about a few ideas...

I still think that someone has to sell glow in the dark material... you see it on "fire Escape" stickers and what not. I can also find tape, but I want sheets to possibly use as a background for a "touring car" style number plate. I can't find anything on the net. If anyone can help please do!!!

Thank you all for the current input, I learned a lot of new cool stuff!!!

Raymond "I will probably do Kirk's idea, as it is affordable, but I will dream of the electroluminescent stuff" Blethen

[Bill Miller]

ScotchLite is the stuf!!! :023:

[RacerBill]

Ray: I used to use the stuff you are looking for when I was in the Army. We used two one-inch stirps as 'cats eyes' on the camo helmet band around the back of our helmets. But our stuff came into the supply room in rolls one inch wide.

Have you tried the 3-M website?

[RacerBill]

Ray: Look at www(dot)glowinc(dot)com - Glow in the dark paint! In colors, no less! Sit down when you look at the price, though.

[Knestis]

Back in my sign shop days, we experimented with some glow stuff in response to a top-secret marketing inquiry from a friend-of-a-customer in England. We never found anything that met the requirements (ie. actually glowed bright and long enough that anyone could really see it).

K

PS - turned out that the project was one of Branson's balloon stunts. He wanted graphics that would have been visible from the ground at night but I don't think it ever happened, with the technology of the time.

[lateapex911]

Back in my sign shop days, .......PS - turned out that the project was one of Branson's balloon stunts. He wanted graphics that would have been visible from the ground at night but I don't think it ever happened, with the technology of the time.
[/b]

Kirk, I love how your posts often start out with, "Back in my _____ days.." Is there a field you haven't worked in??? Junior high teacher, signmaker, policy analyist, race car builder... good stuff, and interesting post. I like this thread better than the BMW thread "April...SIR". ;)

[CSPTK]

So...I'm sitting here with an ohm-meter...one probe jammed in my mouth...the other someplace 'uncomfortable'. What voltage do these things run at, so I can calculate my 'impedance' ?
[/b]

Judging by the capacitive discharge of your ass, I'd say somewhere between "Tazer" and "electric chair".

:blink:

[Knestis]

... Is there a field you haven't worked in???[/b]

That's actually pretty much it, except for the six studious years it took for me to get my bachelor's degree. The joke when I was in art school was that, as a designer, I was a great engineer. The engineers I worked with in my internship (previous major) thought i spent way too much time making things pretty.

The trick is to not be REALLY good at anything.

K

[JohnRW]

Judging by the capacitive discharge of your ass, I'd say somewhere between "Tazer" and "electric chair".

[/b]

Care to pull my finger, Kearney ?

[Geo]

Judging by the capacitive discharge of your ass, I'd say somewhere between "Tazer" and "electric chair".

:blink:
[/b]

:lol:

You sure it's not an WMD? ;)

[Marcus Miller]

The trick is to not be REALLY good at anything.

K
[/b]

There is hope for me yet! :birra: :birra: :birra: :birra:


Marcus

[RSTPerformance]

Old topic revisited...

I have finally after years of searching found a supplier of glow in the dark vinyl... The question now is would anyone buy it? It is a bit expensive, but I would be willing to buy a roll if others also wanted to jump on board. We would have a few options... not to mention different products... All would be that basic greenish glow in the dark color. I have not used or tested any of the materials so I have no idea how well they work. I am going to call on monday and see if they can ship me a sample of each product so I can see what one I like best. It does mention that the 1hr product is a promotional grade desined for novelty items. No mention as to outdoor use. The 6hr and 10hr products mention that the product does not show significant degradation when used outdoors.

Option 1: 1 just supply glow in the dark material in squares large enough to make the backgroud of the number plates for both doors and the hood. You would then need to get the numbers and pin stripping to make your own number plate.
1hr glow material: $30
6hr glow material: $75
10hr glow material $100

Option 2: I cut out numbers and your class with glow in the dark material to your specs.
Single diget number:
1hr glow material: $30
6hr glow material: $75
10hr glow material: $100
Double diget number:
1hr glow material: $45
6hr glow material: $90
10hr glow material: $115

Option 3: I supply glow in the dark material for the background and black cut out lettering to go on top of it to meet your specifications... You put together the final numberplate on the car.
1hr glow material: $100
6hr glow material: $150
10hr Glow material: $175

What are your thoughts??? Anyone interested?

Raymond

[Ron Earp]

What are your thoughts??? Anyone interested?

Raymond

The radiative decay of the materials will generally follow a modified exponential profile. In common terms it means there are going to be a whole lot fewer photons emitted by the material at 10 hours than at hour 0, despite being billed as "active" for 10 hours. I wonder how bright they'd be at the half way mark as well.

At the most recent VIR 13 hour the electroluminescent panels were required, one on each side of the car. The price was $175 per car including the inverter/driver.

With double digit numbers being needed for most folks I suspect the glow material would become less attractive in price when compared to EL panels. Particularly with the EL panels being required equipment at some enduros.

[RSTPerformance]

Ron-

Where can you purchase the EL panels? That might be the best option... I am guesing they are light panels with regular vinyl over them to block the light? How durable are they in the case of a side impact?

Raymond

[Ron Earp]

Raymond,

there are many suppliers of EL panels - check on Ebay, web, etc. Our region purchased a large number from a company and then passed the savings on to the users. I messed around at one time about bringing a lot of these over from Hong Kong but never did it.

One issue with EL panels is photodegragation. Over time UV light will break the double bonds making up the polymer and degrade the material. This will appear as dark spots on the panel and uneven light output. Eventually the they will fail. Humidity is also to be avoided with the panels as that will damage them as well. So, you probably don't want to leave them on the car all the time.

EL panels are fine for occasional use but they can get mechanically damaged as well. One of the sets I made for my car before the VIR enduro group mandated them was damaged by a stone or rock in practice before night testing. The film was pierced and created a short in the panel. So, when we turned it on for night practice the short burned up the inverter providing the high frequency AC for the panel and we were out of luck for using it for the race.

The panels we used this past year, the ones the region supplied, we covered with clear tape to add an additional layer of protection.

I used to have a file with a lot of different EL suppliers but I don't have it any more. Many of the HK companies were more than willing to send samples for evaluation. Also, you'll find the green and blue panels to have a far higher specific brightness than the longer wavelength panels (>530nm). In many cases the longer wavelength panels have to use an intermediate fluorophore that absorbs the blue/green photon and re-emits a photon and a longer wavelengh - deeper green, orange, red etc. This process is inefficient and you notice it as a panel with less brightness.

[RSTPerformance]

Ron-

Thanks for the help, I am sure that it also helped others interested in this topic...

As for the glow in the dark vinyl... the positives would be no wiring to mess with, and that you can cut any shapes, letters and/or numbers. I am getting some sample material by next week and I will be doing a test to see how well it illuminates and for how long. I will post pictures and my honest opinion when I am done testing :)

Raymond

[Ron Earp]

I am getting some sample material by next week and I will be doing a test to see how well it illuminates and for how long. I will post pictures and my honest opinion when I am done testing :)

Raymond

If you want to do a really simple test with data logging for "hard" numbers get a photovoltaic cell and use a Fluke or similar data logging meter to measure output voltage from a simple circuit over a period of many hours. Log it and then plot it. This way you won't have any "seat of your pants" impressions about performance but realistic light output. Sounds like a fun project!

Lacking a data logging meter hook up a piece of EL material in the same dark room. I bet the differences will be extremely pronounced at the few hour time mark. If you need something like this let me know, I've still got some EL samples and inverters you'd be welcome to have.

Ron

[jrvisual]

SignWarehouse has an Avery glow vinyl

http://www.signwarehouse.com/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=VAS-2410-0820-S

[RSTPerformance]

SignWarehouse has an Avery glow vinyl

http://www.signwarehouse.com/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=VAS-2410-0820-S

From the website...

"This material is for indoor applications only."

I recieved samples from my supplier of the Glow in the Dark Vinyl, the "cheep stuff" certainly will not work, but the other stuff looks like it may work. It certainly will have its advantages and disadvantages as compaired to the illumaboards, but the thought of no wires, and the ability to cut any size/shap certainly is interesting...

I am going to work on testing the better products and will post my thoughts.

Raymond