Big news from NASA regarding National Championships

[philstireservice]

NEWS



TOYO OFFERS LARGE CASH PRIZES FOR NASA CHAMPIONSHIPS

NASA is pleased to announce that Toyo Tires will offer a lucrative prize package to the top finishers at the inaugural NASA Championship event at Mid Ohio on September 14-17th, 2006. Toyo is offering over $168,000 in cash awards to NASA racers that run in the classes that specify the Toyo Proxes RA1 tire. “This package really affirms Toyo’s high level of support and commitment to our racers,” said Ryan Flaherty NASA’s National Chairman. “This is the first time that our racers can earn a NASA National Championship and this level of sponsorship will only add to the significance of that achievement.”

Toyo Tires Senior Director of Marketing, Travis Roffler said, “The NASA Championship event allows us to support the most prestigious event in NASA racing and it is an honor to offer this prize package. Toyo is proud to support this series and we look forward to an exciting race season.”

The cash award program will apply to the race classes at the NASA Championship event which use the Toyo Proxes RA1 as the required tire. The eligible classes are: American Iron (AI)
Camaro-Mustang Challenge (CMC)
Spec. Miata (SM)
Spec. Miata 2 (SM2)
944-Spec
SE-R Cup SR Division
Spec Focus
GTI Cup Honda Challenge U (HU)
Honda Challenge 1 (H1)
Honda Challenge 2 (H2)
Honda Challenge 3 (H3)
Honda Challenge 4 (H4)
Honda Challenge 5 (H5)
Pro-7


The contingency program will award drivers a cash payout in the following amounts based on number of starters in class: 30 or more in class
1st Place = $4,000 cash
2nd Place = $3,000 cash
3rd Place = $2,000 cash
4th Place = $1,000 cash
5th Place = $750 cash
6th Place = $500 cash
15-29 in class
1st Place = $2,000 cash
2nd Place = $1,500 cash
3rd Place = $1,000 cash
4th Place = $500 cash
5th Place = $350 cash
10-14 in class
1st Place = $1,000 cash
2nd Place = $750 cash
3rd Place = $500 cash
4th Place = $400 cash
5th Place = $300 cash



Founded in 1991, the National Auto Sport Association is a membership-driven organization that stages over 120 professionally managed events for automobile racers and driving enthusiasts coast to coast. With more than 10,000 members in 15 chapters nationwide, NASA’s amateur racing programs cover a variety of motorsport disciplines, including competition road racing, high-performance driving events for street-licensed cars, rallying, autocross, drifting and time trial competitions

[Bill Miller]

That's a nice program for sure.

[pgipson]

Like most spec tire contingency programs, the guys in the back will subsidize the ones up front. A much more fair program is one that offers ALL drivers a share either through discounts on tires or some other method that decouples winning the race from the contingency support. Unfortunately Toyo and NASA chose to not do that.

[Team SSR]

If racing wasn't performance oriented it wouldn't be racing...



I noticed 944-Spec among the eligible classes. I thought they didn't have a spec tire? Just curious, because I plan to focus on SCCA ITS racing, but I would like to run a big National race... especially for $$.

[Knestis]

The Toyo contingency, spec tire, Nationals qualification, regional points eligibility thing is going to go down in history as one of the least-well-thought-out racing rules and policy situations in a LONG time, I expect.

There are SO many conflicting rules (class-to-class, region-to-region, regional-vs-Nationals) that NASA's management is going to be doing some amazing shuckin' and jivin' at the last minute, to try to make it all look like a cohesive whole. They have already PO'd a lot of folks - notably Honda Challenge entrants on the east coast - with the Toyo spec-tire announcement. Add to that, the almost certain waffling that will result to try to bolster Nationals entries and it's a recipe for bad feelings.

It seems pretty clear that, if one is running a Toyo-spec class, one must run Toyos to collect points to qualify for Nationals. Some regions/classes essentially got this waived however, it appears. The Spec Nissan SE-R class(es?) have a spec tire but apparently allow cars built to IT rules to run on whatever they want - undoubtedly to encourage participation. What are the implications of that?

Y'all know I'm an equal-opportunity critic but NASA this winter has been a really blinding example of a sanctioning body going through puberty - growing pains, cracking voice, blemishes, social awkwardness, moodiness, and all.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Spec Focus???? :119:

[Knestis]

Oh, YEAH.

http://forums.focaljet.com/nasa-spec-focus...-customers.html (http://forums.focaljet.com/nasa-spec-focus-series/498418-anyone-going-build-spec-focus-cars-customers.html)

Scroll down a bit.

I've actually been watching this with quite a bit of interest, as the rumors were that it would be a true cross-over rally/road racing class. It's not working out quite that way but we haven't yet seen exactly what NASA rally does with the rules.

K

[944-spec#94]

If racing wasn't performance oriented it wouldn't be racing...
I noticed 944-Spec among the eligible classes. I thought they didn't have a spec tire? Just curious, because I plan to focus on SCCA ITS racing, but I would like to run a big National race... especially for $$.
[/b]

944 spec has had a spec tire since Jan 2003. It as always been the RA-1.

More details can be found at http://944spec.com

[JeffYoung]

I ran NASA twice last year. Good guys. Nice, relaxed weekends. Really missed the intensity of IT racing, in my run group, with similar cars. NASA is a pleasant diversion, SCCA is bread and butter.

Putting that aside, Joe (944 Spec Joe), do you think that we'll see more of you guys (944 Cup) run ITS this year with the weight break? The one truly healthy series I saw during my two NASA weekends was 944 Cup. LOTS of cars here in the SEDiv. Really would like to see those guys run ITS next year.

Your thoughts?

[Bill Miller]

Like most spec tire contingency programs, the guys in the back will subsidize the ones up front. A much more fair program is one that offers ALL drivers a share either through discounts on tires or some other method that decouples winning the race from the contingency support. Unfortunately Toyo and NASA chose to not do that.
[/b]


Look at any tire contingency program out there, and it's about results. Doesn't matter if it's Kumho, Toyo, Hoosier, Goodyear, or whoever. You finish up front, you get product/$$$$. You have to understand why companies offer contingencies. It's about marketing. What's going to motivate people to buy your product if it can't be at the front?

[Team SSR]

From the 944-Spec SouthEast site http://southeast.44cup.com/rules/944Cup-Spec-Tire-Ruling.htm

"944Cup Rules & Regulations

Updated: 8/16/05

RE: Spec Tires

A Spec Tire rule will not be implemented for the 2006 season.

The 944Cup is designed around the premise that PCA and SCCA prepared cars can race in the 944Cup Series as well as PCA and SCCA races without making changes to their cars. Imposing a spec tire rule would weaken this concept. Having different rules for the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast Chapters is not advisable, for the same reason.

Each new rule imposed on the series, makes it less flexible, and less likely to attract new drivers. Racers with more money can still out do the other guys because they will always be able to afford fresher rubber, no matter what the cost.

As an alternative, for those looking to reduce tire cost, used tires are available from professional race teams that run them only a few heat cycles. Advertisements can be found in the back of GRM magazine.

Periodic reviews of the rules and regulations are conducted, and as the 944Cup series continues to grow, the spec tire issue may be addressed again in the future."

Apparently, different regions have different rules.

What will the qualifications be to be able to enter the national race?

[Knestis]

From the 944-Spec SouthEast site ... http://southeast.44cup.com/rules/944Cup-Spec-Tire-Ruling.htm[/b]


944 spec has had a spec tire since Jan 2003. It as always been the RA-1. ... More details can be found at http://944spec.com[/b]

The prosecution rests, your honor. :D

K

[944-spec#94]

Well 944 cup is not the same as 944 spec.

944 cup is a series for the PCA and ITS prepared 944. It is based on the east coast

944 spec is series solely designed on the 944 with rules develop just for close spec racing. It runs on the west coast.

944 could be legal for both 944 cup and 944 spec, but they are different classes. A prepared to the limit 944 spec is a rather underprepared 944 cup car.

The reason there are two series is they came from different origins. 944 cup wanted to join PCA and ITS cars. 944 spec was formed to race low buck equal cars with no concern to and exisiting rule set.

Yes both classes with run at Nationals. 944 spec will have a the Toyo as spec tire as it always has and will have toyo contingency. 944 cup will run with open tires and as far as I know will not have any toyo contingency with it. If you have car prepped to 944 cup rules I might be able to run in 944 only if meets all the spec rules which are more restrictive in terms of wheels/tires and suspension and engine prep.

944 cup and 944 spec officals have talked about forming one 944 class, but the intent of each class makes that difficult especially for 2006.

[Knestis]

It'll be interesting to see how this situation - and others like it - resolve themselves in the context of a NASA National Championship event. This is an example of how SCCA ended up with Regional and National classes, although that original distinction has largely been lost in the last 20 or so years.

K

[Bill Miller]

It'll be interesting to see how this situation - and others like it - resolve themselves in the context of a NASA National Championship event. This is an example of how SCCA ended up with Regional and National classes, although that original distinction has largely been lost in the last 20 or so years.

K
[/b]


Can you share some of that w/ us Kirk? I first started looking at SCCA Club Racing back in '87. I remember the Rabbit GTI's running in SS (should have done what GregA did, and just pulled the trigger and ran the damn thing!), and the 1st gen. RX7 running in ITS.

[944-spec#94]

It'll be interesting to see how this situation - and others like it - resolve themselves in the context of a NASA National Championship event.
K
[/b]

I agree up until now NASA has had alot of flexilbility and been able to do things in many different ways. The addition of a "nationals" event is great, but it brings it share of issues related to cross region was of doing things.

944 cup and 944 spec were happy to co-exist thousands of miles apart for the past 4 years or so. Now they are being dragged together. Even Honda Challenge has had to deal with east coast vs west coast things.

When you get rapid growth and lots of new ideas some are bound to need to be revised.

[Knestis]

Up until IT came along, the distinction between National and Regional was less about classes, and more about events. Pretty much all of the club racing classes were eligible for both kinds of event. IT - then F440, and a pile of other stuff - quickly grew to the point where some of the most well-subscribed classes are only regional-eligible.

So why aren't the biggest classes running for the chance to be showcased at the RunOffs? How will NASA define which classes ultimately populate its "big show?" The decisions behind the current distinction in SCCA are OLD, and like the original intent behind the IT class rules, are pretty much lost to history. We get to watch NASA make its in real time, on the Internet! :)

K

[lateapex911]

Up until IT came along, the distinction between National and Regional was less about classes, and more about events. Pretty much all of the club racing classes were eligible for both kinds of event. IT - then F440, and a pile of other stuff - quickly grew to the point where some of the most well-subscribed classes are only regional-eligible.

So why aren't the biggest classes running for the chance to be showcased at the RunOffs? How will NASA define which classes ultimately populate its "big show?" The decisions behind the current distinction in SCCA are OLD, and like the original intent behind the IT class rules, are pretty much lost to history. We get to watch NASA make its in real time, on the Internet! :)

K
[/b]
Lore has it that "National" racing was once much more of a special event, with some big names and money aiming for the National champ. It was a "trail" across the nation, from what I hear, but there are many who really know much better than I.

I do remember the Bob Sharp Datsuns being very strong "C Prod"? cars...and one PL Newman cutting his teeth, and winning the championship in one.

Now, it is intereseting how many regions depend on Regional classes like IT to really pay the bills of National races. My understanding is that some regions lose money or take a significant risk of losing money on National events. IT, and other popular Regional classes have subsidizied racing for all in some regions, from what I am told by those further up the ladder.

The point about the Runoffs not showcasing the biggest classes is very true. The Runoffs as been pretty weak of late.

NASA has a tricky balancing act, but it may be easier due to it's freedom from preconceived notions and lack of historical comparisions.

[ggnagy]

Lore has it that "National" racing was once much more of a special event, with some big names and money aiming for the National champ. It was a "trail" across the nation, from what I hear, but there are many who really know much better than I.

I do remember the Bob Sharp Datsuns being very strong "C Prod"? cars...and one PL Newman cutting his teeth, and winning the championship in one.

[/b]


Minor point, but PLN "cut his teeth" by nickel and diming his way in B sedan and a driving a used tr6 in D production before formally hooking up with BSR




It'll be interesting to see how this situation - and others like it - resolve themselves in the context of a NASA National Championship event. This is an example of how SCCA ended up with Regional and National classes, although that original distinction has largely been lost in the last 20 or so years.

K
[/b]


Actually, sounds more like the Cal Club fiasco all over again.

[dickita15]

Minor point, but PLN "cut his teeth" by nickel and diming his way in B sedan and a driving a used tr6 in D production before formally hooking up with BSR
Actually, sounds more like the Cal Club fiasco all over again.
[/b]

well the 510 he bought from bob sharp and the used tr6 was the group 44 car they sold him when they went to the tr7. not exactly nickel and dime. good thing he had the talent to justify the good equipment.

[Knestis]

...unlike another actor who had a short, though unspectacular, career with Sharp - some guy named Cruise. For a season or so, he ran a (I seem to recall) SSA Nissan ZX. Qualified up front and crashed out, as often as not.

We now return you to the thread, already in progress.

K

[gran racing]

They have already PO'd a lot of folks - notably Honda Challenge entrants on the east coast - with the Toyo spec-tire announcement. [/b]

I was told that NASA N.E. is not using a spec tire in HC. Is this information not accurate now? It was obtained very recently.

If that's true, if I race at a local track then make a trip (7 hrs) I might need to run a spec tire while the whole time be running in the same class? That's silly.

[lateapex911]

...unlike another actor who had a short, though unspectacular, career with Sharp - some guy named Cruise. For a season or so, he ran a (I seem to recall) SSA Nissan ZX. Qualified up front and crashed out, as often as not.

We now return you to the thread, already in progress.

K
[/b]

UNspectacular????

Are you kidding me?!?! I was at a bunch of his races that year, and I have to say he was VERY entertaining! The paddock was a big giggle, but the first lap of the race was NOT to be missed, although more often than not it was over at the first turn. I didn't see him qualify up front often, but he would nearly lead for a split second somewhere around the first quarter of the first turn. Then he became a bowling ball, and the Sharp guys would roll their eyes and pound it back together....!

[pgipson]

NASA has a tricky balancing act, but it may be easier due to it's freedom from preconceived notions and lack of historical comparisions.[/b]

I think any freedom they have to make changes is due less to preconcieved notions, and more to to the NASA ownership structure. The NASA powers (a largely unnamed group that is often referred to in e-mails and messages) has the ability to make changes as they see fit with little or no participation from their customers. Witness the death of Pro Sedan (or mercy killing depending on your point of view) and the phoenix-like arising of Pro Touring. No advance word to any racers, just here it is. The morphing of the Vette-Viper challenge into the GPC (?) was much the same. The appearence of new classes works in the same mysterious way. Want a spec class for your 1981-84 4 cyl Leftovermobile? No problem. Give us some rules, find someone to maintain them and there you are. Doesn't matter if there are 5 of the cars in competiton in America. NASA lists approximately 71 separate classes on their web site, and I would guess they would be willing to add more, but I'm not sure what might be left to classify.

So while SCCA works to cut down the number of different classes, enhance the competitiveness of cars, and classify new cars into existing classes in a fair way -- NASA gives most everyone a chance to be a race winner.

These are definitely 2 totally different approaches to the sport. Maybe they are trying to solve different problems, or maybe it is just NIH carried to a different form.

[Knestis]

Two different NASA regions contacted me indicating that they'd make IT2 a class, a couple years back when we were beating that drum. I needed to "bring 3 cars" but it just didn't seem like the right way to go.

That issue worked out (watch an ITA race this season) and the rest of the 71 classes in NASA will evolve as motorsports Darwinism takes hold. I STILL challenge the premise that creating a class simply because someone asks for it is a formula for longterm success. Yeah, there are like five guys who think IT Truck is the coolest thing in the world but would they be racing something else if they didn't have that option? I kind of think, "yes."

That said, once I got past some of the goofier aspects of Performance Touring (I've been saying "Pro" which isn't right), somethign occurred to me: There's only a 2-point cost for seam welding, making PT a possible place to road race a rally-prepared car. Hmmm...

K

[dickita15]

SCCA = See Cruise Crash Again

[ggnagy]

well the 510 he bought from bob sharp and the used tr6 was the group 44 car they sold him when they went to the tr7. not exactly nickel and dime. good thing he had the talent to justify the good equipment.
[/b]

The value, in cents, of "nickel and dime" would be '5' and '10', but naturally, you knew that. :P
Now, as to the tr6, was McComb's car a "new" tr6 or was it one of the ex TR250, ex FI-TR6s :119:

I would never dispute that the guy has and had alot of talent and the best equipment money can buy (remember the BProd ferrari he had?).

[dickita15]

The value, in cents, of "nickel and dime" would be '5' and '10', but naturally, you knew that. :P
[/b]
nope, I totaly missed the reference :(






Now, as to the tr6, was McComb's car a "new" tr6 or was it one of the ex TR250, ex FI-TR6s :119:

[/b]

Well I thought it was built as a new Tr6 but I could be wrong. I was at atlanta when newman won with the tr6 beating the group's tr7. there was a lot of pratical jokes goin on. newman hired a plane with a banner that said "sixes beat sevens" I was told the tulious delivered the car to newman with concrete in the tires.

[wlfpkrcn]

Regardless of what each region is allowing for tires, suspension etc... If you are going to run at the nationals, your car will need to be compliant with the national rules. That's the way I understand it. Here's the rules.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules.html

[imported_Webmaster]

Have tried to contact "The NASA powers" numerous times via numerous ways... no responses. None.
Do we know any of the "powers"

[wlfpkrcn]

What kind of info are you looking for?

[turboICE]

As I understand it NASA-NE is going to follow ECHC tire rules (though no NE races are ECHC points races). Additionally I understand ECHC races will all be open tire in 2006. Only time they have to run Toyo spec is if they go to nationals. (So two sets of tires shave one to 2/32'nds for practice/qualifying and another for qualifying and national race... big savings when you have to shave a long wear tire down to one race depth to compete! anyway another topic)

For those running NASA-NE/PDA keep in mind that Phil's is the tire service at those events. :035:

Webmaster you want to talk to jerry probably : jerry aat drivenasa dut com

Don't have the celebrity history you guys do but I did get to watch Tim Allen drive a Neon straight into the turn one wall at the St. Pete Grand Prix quite few years back.

[imported_Webmaster]

What kind of info are you looking for?
[/b]
I'm not at liberty to discuss it publicly. I will contine to attempt contact with them. They have to surface eventually.

[wlfpkrcn]

Well, Jerry is probably your best bet. Call the office 510-232-NASA

[Zephyr]

I was told that NASA N.E. is not using a spec tire in HC. Is this information not accurate now? It was obtained very recently.
[/b]

Come and race with us in H5. We, the driver field will not give you a hard time about the rubber you are running on.

Z

[944-spec#94]

Have tried to contact "The NASA powers" numerous times via numerous ways... no responses. None.
Do we know any of the "powers"
[/b]

Jerry Kunzman is the head guy of NASA and Run Nor-Cal Division

Ryan Flaherty is also one of top guys and run the So-Cal Division

his email is rflaherty(at)drivenasa.com

I have spoken with Ryan a few times about various issues as Az region folks often run So-Cal events due to the proximity.

Not really sure what you are planning.