what do i need to do to convert to Production?

[tom91ita]

given the high cost of travel with fuel costs, i figure i can save money by going to production :119: and running some local national races instead of driving 400 miles to a regional IT race.

if i am reading the prod rules correctly, the only things i have to do are:

a. windshield clips (allowed by IT)
b. fuel cell (allowed by IT)
c. on-board fire system (allowed by IT)

i may not be that competitive but i wouldn't be the slowest either.

is there anything i am missing? is this one of the reasons that everyone is concerned about the slippery slope from IT to PROD? we can be compliant except for changing the class ID on the door?

anyone else out there running dual set-up cars?

tia, tom

[dickita15]

working from memory here. you can check my facts,

remove passenger door glass (now allowed in It if done right)

remove head light glass

[Bill Miller]

Tom,

First off, what kind of car?

You've hit upon some of the key items, but there are a few others.

Pass. side door glass and driver's side door glass, both have to go (legal in IT w/ door bars)

Headlights have to go (not legal in IT)

Forward supports on cage, going to firewall (could be legal in IT, depending on design).

I'll have to look at the PCS again, but off the top of my head, those are the major items.

[Knestis]

Originally posted by tom91ita@Jan 15 2006, 11:58 PM
... is this one of the reasons that everyone is concerned about the slippery slope from IT to PROD? we can be compliant except for changing the class ID on the door?

I can't speak for "everyone" certainly, but my concern is that each new allowance in the IT rules, which was previously part of the total difference between the two categories, raises the bar in terms of preparation cost and complexity. It's not really that the two categories are getting "closer together," I don't think, because Production is constantly evolving with new allowances, the result of slippery-slope pressures of its own.

It hasn't come up recently - thank goodness - but when the LP Prod option was new, there were folks suggesting that we should allow the removal in IT of items that have been listed here, simply to make "crossing over" easier.

Talk about putting one's own interests ahead of the longterm health of a category. It should NOT be that IT allows something that has to be expensively UNDONE to "move up" to Production but creeping the IT category to benefit another makes sense only to short-term or transitional terms to Production. Of course, that's kind of what the LP movement was about...

K

[tom91ita]

the car is a 1st gen '85 crx si so that would take me from itb to g-prod.

i am in the midst of adding the passenger side door bars and removing that window. it means more ballast but it will at least be weight lower in the car. i had seen the part of the headlights, etc. but forgot to include it.

it looks like 18.6.1.c on page 132 of the 2005 hard copy gcr has the reference to the front bracing. something i wanted to do anyway. thanks for pointing that out!

so when i get the cage work updated, the only thing to convert back and forth would be some headlight/turnsignal work in the front. doesn't sound too bad/difficult.

i know that i would be giving up a lot in terms of potential motor work but that was not the overall theme just yet.

i am also reviewing in terms of the NASA honda challenge rules. the car is H5 there and some of the mods allowed for that are actually allowed in G-Prod (lighter flywheel, etc.). so it might end up being a cross over between scca national events and nasa h5 events. i don't plan on changing over flywheels between itb/g-prod events!

tom

[ddewhurst]

Tom, be sure you understand the Production Side Protection rule 18.6.3. The top tube SHALL be HORIZONTAL with a second tube below the top HORIZONTAL tube. There are Production cars out there with the diagonal Side Protection tubes that DO NOT meet the written rule.

[tom91ita]

okay, i read the side protection rule. what i have on the driver's side is this:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tom91ita/det...77b.jpg&.src=ph (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tom91ita/detail?.dir=5582&.dnm=a77b.jpg&.src=ph)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tom91ita/det...16b.jpg&.src=ph (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tom91ita/detail?.dir=5582&.dnm=916b.jpg&.src=ph)

i think when i first read that, i took the horizontal bar as what i would refer to as the "sill" bar and then i have the two "nascar" bars above that. i plan to effectively duplicate this on the passenger side.

as you can see, i still need to add the front brace to the footwell area. as long as i keep it "IT" legal and inside the car, it appears that it would meet 18.6.1.c

i also have to replace the windshield and plan to add a bar above the dash to connect the front hoops. not required as i read it but recommended per 18.6.b.1.f on page 130 of gcr 2005 hardcopy version.

any further comments after the photos? this started as a bolt-in cage and eventually i would like to convert to welded. but that may have to wait unless i go after the top front bar when the windshield is out.

i was planning to weld the sleeves similar to the rosette welds shown in Figure 5 in 18.7 p. 133 and then also weld the ends of the sleeves.

thanks, tom

[latebrake]

Slide the sleeve back and butt weld the bars. then replave them and rosette and weld the sleeves in place. I am a little funny about cages anyway but thats the way I would do it. Mine would stop a tank but the fuel cell is my passenger too so maybe this is the reason for overkill with cages. :)

Lawrence

[ddewhurst]

Tom, as long as the top tube is HORIZONTAL the one or more tubes below may be as you please. :023:

[pvyoung]

Tom,

Your door bars look very stout. I doubt any tech inspector will not allow them. Though, there are some out there that have no common sense.

I'm not familiar enough with the IT rules, so, if I mention something that is already required by the IT rules, please bear with me.

IIRC, the front parking light, front turn signal and side marker light assemblies have to be removed and covered with either a plate or a wire mesh. Some, if not all, of the emissions controls have to be removed. If your tires extend past outer edge of your fenders, they need to be covered.

I would suggest you talk over your plans with a local tech inspector and get his/her buy-in on what needs to be done. After you're done, get them to inspect your car and make a notation in your log book stating the conversion has been inspected and meets the prod safety requirements.

I would also suggest you post your question over on the Prod Board (http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/) as there are many people over there that have prepped prod cars. ;)

Welcome aboard and you won't regret it :happy204: :happy204: ,
Perry
A recent conversion from SM to Limited Prep FP

[MarkosMotorsports]

RUN LEADED FUEL !!! :( My uncle is a recent conversion to Prod from IT and won the last National race at Phoenix and had his fuel tested at post race inspection. Was found to be illegal since he was running unleaded fuel, too many oxygenates in unleaded fuel. This was pump fuel straight from the tanks at the track. We didn't know that we had to run leaded fuel to be legal.

[ddewhurst]

***We didn't know that we had to run leaded fuel to be legal.***

Please procure a GCR & read rule 17.4.1. Permitted Fuel

The rule don't say the fuel shall be leaded but it dose give you some specs.

Also if your going anwhere near the Runoffs there is special fule they sell the only fuel used there.