Would You Protest

[CaptainWho]

I was reading the protest thread a few minutes ago, and it was somewhat illuminating. But not enough. Here's a situation I'd like you folks to evaulate and relate how you would handle it. The time is long past where I could have lodged a protest, if I had standing at all, so this is a hypothetical in some respects but it's a real event.

At a race weekend last year (2004), there were two regional races for my class, and an enduro that also included my class. My brother and I were registered for and ran the enduro (as co-drivers), but not the regionals. The other driver was registered for, and ran, the regionals but not the enduro. (It wasn't the ARRC, wasn't even Road Atlanta)

There's a particular driver in our class who consistently runs "too fast" for the class. In fact, he consistently "pulls" mid- to front-pack cars in higher level classes in the same run group on the straights, which none of the other competitors in the class can do, even after large amounts of time on the dyno tuning their cars in some cases.

When working corners, both my brother and I and other corner workers have noticed that his exhaust smells "strange" during practice and qualifying, and sometimes during the race, though rarely. It smells like an aromatic hydrocarbon or similar compound that's not gasoline or the usual additives. It's very distinct; almost impossible to miss, though hard to localize since he's usually in a group of cars. It took us about six weekends of working corners to be sure which car was emitting the smell.

On the weekend in question, the enduro was on Monday, while the regionals were on Saturday and Sunday. On Sunday, just before the race for that run group, while he was prepping his car for the race, I personally watched him pour a gallon or two of something orange into his gas tank. It looked a lot like the orange antifreeze. I'm not going to go into details, because I don't want to make an accusation here without backing. But I'll say that I can be absolutely certain that it was going into the gas tank, not into the cooling system or anywhere else.

So, here I am, a personal witness to what I believed to be an infraction, but I had no other witnesses, I wasn't a party to the race in question, which presents serious questions about my standing to lodge a protest, at least in my mind, and the car passed the post-race tech, which might or might not have included fuel testing. (I wasn't there to observe the post-race tech)

What would you have done? What do you think I should've done?

[charrbq]

Spread the word as to what you thought you saw. Let his competitors do the watching, but make it sure that you thought you saw something, but might be incorrect...unless you really are certain.

[gran racing]

What Chris said.

If you know anyone in that class, give them the heads-up and let them decide how it should or should not be pursued. Not for you but for others in that class - I would imagine that a fuel test would be relatively inexpensive to test, no?

[seckerich]

Go to the chief steward, head of Tech, or similar official. The additives used can kill you and should be stopped regardless if you are in the race. One warning to the driver, then the gloves are off.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I would have done nothing. That weekend you were not racing against him so a protest is out of the question.

When you are racing in the same group as him, ask the people gridded around him to pay attention to your issue. Inform them of your historical knowledge and your factual sightings. If you get comfirmation that something seems wrong, then take action.

1. Walk up to the guy and ask him what he puts in his tank. Couch it by saying. "It stinks out there on track when I am behind you but it sure seems to get the job done!" You may be surprised at the answer. He may show you the stuff and it may be legal. (Who knows) He may BS you...he may deny not knowing you saw anything.

2. Protest his fuel. The fuel test is easy, can be done at the track and takes little time, I have been witness to the standard test. (Ask your chief of tech/impound about the test, what it can and can't detect and to have the appropriate stuff ready - then decide if it's a smart thing to protest). Cheap protest too.

A lot of people ask what we run in the RX-7's because they often spit flames when we shift quickly...guess what? 87 octane pump gas makes the most power in the 13B in ITS trim!!!! Why tell you that? Hopefully there is a good explanation for the smell other than a cheater.

AB

[dickita15]

Originally posted by seckerich@Dec 31 2005, 09:39 AM
Go to the chief steward, head of Tech, or similar official. The additives used can kill you and should be stopped regardless if you are in the race. One warning to the driver, then the gloves are off.

69658

This is problematic. I work tech as well as race IT. Competitors are always coming up and saying so and so is illegal. Never have I seen this cause an investigation. It may however be one additional data point for a future post race inspection.

As was suggested I would want to try and find out exactly what the mystery stuff is. If you can be sure of a problem you can protest or get a group to protest. I really think that the facts you have so far are not enough to get me to protest without further facts, but it would be enough to get me to want to learn more.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 31 2005, 07:51 AM
I would have done nothing. That weekend you were not racing against him so a protest is out of the question.

When you are racing in the same group as him, ask the people gridded around him to pay attention to your issue. Inform them of your historical knowledge and your factual sightings. If you get comfirmation that something seems wrong, then take action.

1. Walk up to the guy and ask him what he puts in his tank. Couch it by saying. "It stinks out there on track when I am behind you but it sure seems to get the job done!" You may be surprised at the answer. He may show you the stuff and it may be legal. (Who knows) He may BS you...he may deny not knowing you saw anything.

2. Protest his fuel. The fuel test is easy, can be done at the track and takes little time, I have been witness to the standard test. (Ask your chief of tech/impound about the test, what it can and can't detect and to have the appropriate stuff ready - then decide if it's a smart thing to protest). Cheap protest too.

A lot of people ask what we run in the RX-7's because they often spit flames when we shift quickly...guess what? 87 octane pump gas makes the most power in the 13B in ITS trim!!!! Why tell you that? Hopefully there is a good explanation for the smell other than a cheater.

AB

69660



Why's that Andy? Especially if it's something that impacts the safety and health of everyone else at the track.


I'd speak to either the Chief Steward or the SOM, and ask their advice. If they say that the only way they can test his fuel, is through a formal protest, I'd file it. Be factual, you observed the driver pour something into his fuel system, that did not appear to be gasoline. You've also notice an unusual smell comming from his car. Problem is, IT probably has the loosest fuel requirements out there. You can run anything from full-blown race gas, to 87 octane pump gas.

[joeg]

When he is not around, open the can and smell--Oxygenates (e.g. nitro) are strong. Better yet sneak a sample to tech.

The best is to ask him for a sample.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Dec 31 2005, 08:52 AM
Why's that Andy? Especially if it's something that impacts the safety and health of everyone else at the track.

69665


You have to be a competitor/entrant to protest. As I read it, it was on a different day than he was racing. He has no standing to lodge anything THAT DAY.

AB

[Knestis]

I count the required fuel test hose among the very silliest of expenses incurred while building my car. I just can't fathom the tech peeps caring enough to spend the time necessary to check fuel in a bunch of IT cars.

I'm not so sure how prepared the inspectors might be to check fuel for all possible cheats. I am not a chemist but I suspect that they ARE set up to check for the things they typically check - like when they do the track fuel at Nationals - but beyond that...? There's enough science involved that you might encounter issues with a protest.

I don't know for sure but aren't some brands/grades of race gas orange? They color code them with methyl dyes and I saw some at a boat race once that looked like orange KoolAid.

K

[zracre]

Or as he is dumping said orange liquid in the tank...pop up unexpectedly and say "wow that stuff must work!!! where did you get it??" really loud and see his response...if he is trying to hide it he will turn shades of red and purple and you will have your answer...lol Id just ask him nicely first and if he refuses, say the tech will need a sample at impound, smile and walk away...

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 31 2005, 09:23 AM
You have to be a competitor/entrant to protest. As I read it, it was on a different day than he was racing. He has no standing to lodge anything THAT DAY.

AB

69667


Andy,

The way I read it, they were working corners for the Regionals. Therefore, they are consider participants in the event, and have standing to protest.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Dec 31 2005, 09:57 AM
Andy,

The way I read it, they were working corners for the Regionals. Therefore, they are consider participants in the event, and have standing to protest.

69676


13.1. WHO MAY PROTEST
The right to protest shall rest with any entrant, driver, organization, or
official taking part in the competition in question. Each, alone, may protest
any decision, act, or omission of the organizers, an official, entrant, driver,
or other person connected with the competition, which the protestor
believes is in violation of the GCR, the Supplementary Regulations , or any
conditions attached to the sanctioning of the event by SCCA (hereafter in
this section collectively referred to as “the rules”). A protest against a
car is also a protest against its driver and entrant.

**********

Is a corner worker an "official"? I don't think so.

**********

6.1. OFFICIALS
The staff of principal officials, whose duty it shall be to direct the control
of the event, may include:
Stewards of the Meeting (SOM)
Chief Steward /Series Chief Steward
Assistant Chief Steward-Safety
Race Chairman
Chief Starter
Chief Course
Chief Flag
Chief of Communications
Chief Timer and Scorer
Chief/Series Chief Technical and Safety Inspector (Scrutineer )
Chief Emergency Services
Chief Observer
Chief Pit
Chief Grid
Chief Race Administration
Chief Registrar
Judges
Chief Sound Control
***********

The supps may name any worker as an official but...when would it EVER be appropriate for a corner worker to lodge a protest against a driver for car legality?

AB

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 31 2005, 09:35 AM
13.1. WHO MAY PROTEST
The right to protest shall rest with any entrant, driver, organization, or
official taking part in the competition in question. Each, alone, may protest
any decision, act, or omission of the organizers, an official, entrant, driver,
or other person connected with the competition, which the protestor
believes is in violation of the GCR, the Supplementary Regulations , or any
conditions attached to the sanctioning of the event by SCCA (hereafter in
this section collectively referred to as “the rules”). A protest against a
car is also a protest against its driver and entrant.

**********

Is a corner worker an "official"? I don't think so.

**********

6.1. OFFICIALS
The staff of principal officials, whose duty it shall be to direct the control
of the event, may include:
Stewards of the Meeting (SOM)
Chief Steward /Series Chief Steward
Assistant Chief Steward-Safety
Race Chairman
Chief Starter
Chief Course
Chief Flag
Chief of Communications
Chief Timer and Scorer
Chief/Series Chief Technical and Safety Inspector (Scrutineer )
Chief Emergency Services
Chief Observer
Chief Pit
Chief Grid
Chief Race Administration
Chief Registrar
Judges
Chief Sound Control
***********

The supps may name any worker as an official but...when would it EVER be appropriate for a corner worker to lodge a protest against a driver for car legality?

AB

69680


I believe as a worker they could file an RFA and then it would be up to a steward to deal with it. I would have gone to the cheif stew and made an unofficial statement. I would hope that at a minimum that would have at least gotten the compitior a looking at.

[Andy Bettencourt]

While I agree that there may be an official channel to pursue this type of thing I think it's weenie. I may inform other competitors, but never seek action on legality of a driver I am not racing against. In this case, I see it EXTRA weenie if that car is in my class.

Bottom line? Be prepared with knowledge of the fuel test and what it tests for. Have them have the stuff there. Ask the guy about it.

AB

[Catch22]

Kirk,

They test fuel at the ARRC.

If this guy has finished on an ARRC podium in the last few years, he's been tested. At least he was legal on that weekend.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 31 2005, 10:32 AM
While I agree that there may be an official channel to pursue this type of thing I think it's weenie. I may inform other competitors, but never seek action on legality of a driver I am not racing against. In this case, I see it EXTRA weenie if that car is in my class.

Bottom line? Be prepared with knowledge of the fuel test and what it tests for. Have them have the stuff there. Ask the guy about it.

AB

69683


Sorry Andy but this attitude is exactly why people are afraid to make a protest. Being labled a weenie or a pussy ar a CS is total BS. If a person feels they actually have seen something that violates the rules then it should be reported and handled rather than ignored and allowed to happen. When you allow someone to cheat you raise the bar for everone else to have to cheat just to keep up. Now On the flipside there is a way in the rules book to handle spitfull protests also. Anyone found to be protesting blindly for the purpose of pissing someone off should be taken out back for a sock and soap party but I believe the only way the system works is protests that force people to hold the line.

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by Catch22@Dec 31 2005, 01:39 PM
Kirk,
They test fuel at the ARRC.
If this guy has finished on an ARRC podium in the last few years, he's been tested. At least he was legal on that weekend.

69684


What do they test it with? Specific gravity measurements? That is not qualitative in the sense it won't tell you what is in the fuel, only that the specific gravity is slightly different from one fuel to the next. Ditto boiling point, colometric methods, flash point, and others.

Unless they have a gas chromatograph setup with spectra from "accepted fuel", as well as spectra and relative retention times of known additives, it is going to be sort of hard to stand on some results and say "Racer X is disqualified, he has XYZ in his fuel". Or a GC/MS. Actually, a GC would be easy to setup and use at the AARC with no trouble and can be obtained very cheaply (read old used stuff).

I suppose if they make you use their fuel and run then any differences through specific gravity, colormetric, etc. can be used to say "Racer X is DQ'ed, his fuel is different".

R

[MMiskoe]

To answer your question: You go and ask the guy what it is. Be friendly, be curious, most of all, play dumb. He'll either tell you what it is and why he thinks its legal or get defensive, shut up, walk away, or challenge a protest. Either way, you learn something. If the challenge to a protest comes up, gloves are off, ask him how to spell his last name & tell him you'll be back in an hour. On the other hand he might be interperting things differently than most and doesn't realize what he's up to, the discussion might lead to some voluntary changes on his part.

If you're protesting, but want to do it from a distance:

I was privy to a protestable situation once where the offense was visible if you knew what you were looking at. Since the rules state that you must file the protest before the race (except as needed), the person was nervous that there might be on track retaliation. So I suggested that person go discuss it w/ the CS. The CS understood the situation and simply created a reason to have the car in impound, at which point the CS started asking questions, told the guy he couldn't make that modification and told him to fix it before the start of the race. All done, no protest, no illegal mod, no problem.

I don't know if a Cheif Steward becomes aware of a situation and does nothing about it are they at all open to censure?

Matt

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Dec 31 2005, 11:43 AM
Sorry Andy but this attitude is exactly why people are afraid to make a protest. Being labled a weenie or a pussy ar a CS is total BS. If a person feels they actually have seen something that violates the rules then it should be reported and handled rather than ignored and allowed to happen. When you allow someone to cheat you raise the bar for everone else to have to cheat just to keep up. Now On the flipside there is a way in the rules book to handle spitfull protests also. Anyone found to be protesting blindly for the purpose of pissing someone off should be taken out back for a sock and soap party but I believe the only way the system works is protests that force people to hold the line.

69685


Then we will agree to disagree. People don't even protest cars in their class when they "know" they are illegal - nevermind a cornerworker protesting a car on track for a ITCS specific rule? I would hope the corner workers in my area would be more focused on passes under yellow, contact between cars and the overall safety of the space they are occupying.

I don't label anyone but if a cornerworker protested me (who also happened to be in my class in other races) for something they can't or havn't seen as illegal - is BOGUS. Sorry. If the drivers on track don't have the stones to write papers, so be it. THAT is the big issue IMHO - making the process easy enough to be smooth but not so easy it creates the same lititgeous society we have in our court system.

I still don't see where in the rules a cornerworker can do this anyway - and that speaks to my point of it being bogus.

YMMV - and does!

AB

[CaptainWho]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 31 2005, 01:28 PM
People don't even protest cars in their class when they "know" they are illegal - nevermind a cornerworker protesting a car on track for a ITCS specific rule? I would hope the corner workers in my area would be more focused on passes under yellow, contact between cars and the overall safety of the space they are occupying.

69689


Well, we surely agree on that, Andy. I would never lodge a protest based on what I saw/heard/smelled from a corner station. I might have a discreet word with the Tech Chief or one of the stewards, though.

But when a specific car does smell odd regularly from the corners, it sure makes me keep an eye on it in the paddock when I'm racing against it. In this case, I wasn't working corners that weekend, but I also wasn't racing against the car in question, though I'm in the same class (he was in the sprints and I was in the enduro).

I guess the bottom line is I'll keep a much closer eye on him, and I'll see what I can get out of him verbally, and go from there based on what happens.

[Bill Miller]

The supps may name any worker as an official but...when would it EVER be appropriate for a corner worker to lodge a protest against a driver for car legality?

Andy, it would be appropriate if the driver was doctoring his fuel w/ something that was illgeal, and could potentially put the worker at risk. Car crashes at said worker's station, said worker responds, and is exposed to the way toxic shit that the driver put in his fuel.

Sorry bud, but you're wrong on this one. Joe's right, the kind of strong-arm tactic that you're suggesting is total BS. Save the machismo and testosterone for the beer party.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Dec 31 2005, 12:49 PM


Andy, it would be appropriate if the driver was doctoring his fuel w/ something that was illgeal, and could potentially put the worker at risk. Car crashes at said worker's station, said worker responds, and is exposed to the way toxic shit that the driver put in his fuel.

Sorry bud, but you're wrong on this one. Joe's right, the kind of strong-arm tactic that you're suggesting is total BS. Save the machismo and testosterone for the beer party.

69692
[/b]

I really don't know what you mean in the last part of your post. I am convinced that it would be appropriate for that worker to call the situation in and make note of it in their logs - maybe even sending a RFA to the SOM's if they think the situation may be unsafe. I see what you are saying and what I am saying as two different things. Safety and illegality are two VERY different things when lodging a complaint. You may find something illegal as a byproduct of a perceived safety issue but for gods sake, a corner worker protesting a driver on the legality of the car. Sorry, I just don't buy it...and I have yet to see any refuting evidence from the GCR that they even could do so...see 13.1 above.

It's all moot (not MUTE) anyway. We are arguing a situation that would never happen. The advise given above is sound.

1. Talk with them
2. Protest them when you are ready (define your 'rediness' your own way).

AB

[charrbq]

Originally posted by zracre@Dec 31 2005, 03:51 PM
Or as he is dumping said orange liquid in the tank...pop up unexpectedly and say "wow that stuff must work!!! where did you get it??" really loud and see his response...if he is trying to hide it he will turn shades of red and purple and you will have your answer...lol Id just ask him nicely first and if he refuses, say the tech will need a sample at impound, smile and walk away...

69675

Out of everything I've read or written, this is probably the best idea, if it can be done with the eloquence suggested.

Andy, believe it or not, I pretty much agree with everything you say. As a worker and driver, I've heard some interesting comments on the radios concerning exhaust smells. I've never seen a worker even consider filing a protest. Most likely it would be ignored. But they know who runs in what class and don't fear spreading the word.

It's been my understanding the the method used in fuel testing can be frequently incorrect, and ruled unusable by the stewards. I've witnessed it on a couple of occassions when the track fuel was found non compliant. Specific gravity is, none the less, portable. In my line of work, we use a lot of LC's and GC's. They are anything but portable. If there is a location at a track to place the instrument in a secure and climate controlled environment, with proper maintenance, they will be highly effective. But, in most every case, that ain't gonna happen. The columns and temperature controls in the instruments are really susceptable to damage if the instument is disturbed or improperly maintained.

[Hotshoe]

Originally posted by MMiskoe@Dec 31 2005, 06:04 PM


I don't know if a Cheif Steward becomes aware of a situation and does nothing about it are they at all open to censure?

Matt

69687


Matt,

...I have made an a$$ out of myself a few times trying to right a wrong that I have witnessed and have decided that since the officials take no interest then why should I.
...Case in point:

... I was competing in a SARRC race at Roebling Road several years ago, and I witnessed Rob May getting into Edward Smith's car for qualifying. I checked the entry list to see if he was the registered driver, and he was not. Edward Smith was.

... So while I was on the grid getting ready to go out for qualifying, I called the Chief of the Grid over to my car (Kay Fairer) and informed her of what I saw.

...1.Did she do anything about it?.. No.

...2.Did she let him go on track even though he was not the registered driver for that car?..Yes.

...3.Did he ( Rob May ) qualify the car for the race?.. Yes

...4.Who drove the car in the race? Edward Smith

...5.Is this allowed? Not as far as I know.

...Would you protest? Why? If the officials don't care then why should you make a fool out of yourself.

...So who has the problem? I think it must be me. :bash_1_:

...The names have not been changed because they are not innocent.

... Rick Thompson..... Tha Black Sheep w/stones

.... Let me ad this: To me it appears that the only rules that matter are the one's that the Officials take interest in. And, don't make any waves with the class favorites. Sad but true around here

[Knestis]

Originally posted by MMiskoe@Dec 31 2005, 01:04 PM
... I suggested that person go discuss it w/ the CS. The CS understood the situation and simply created a reason to have the car in impound, at which point the CS started asking questions, told the guy he couldn't make that modification and told him to fix it before the start of the race. All done, no protest, no illegal mod, no problem. ...
I dunno, Matt - this kind of thing makes me VERY nervous because it activates the old-boy network. A steward isn't likely to pursue something like that for everyone in the paddock, right? That means that one would need to call on a "know-who" to make that process work. THAT, to my mind, simply inflames the influence that informal, buddy-buddy relationships have on the process, which just contributes to problems.

People think the system is flawed by politics, folks who aren't pals with the decision-makers don't dare file paper, and there's a lot of room for accusations of favoritism - in this case, well-founded ones, I think. It's just the flip side of the "don't file a protest outside of your home (track, region, division, whatever)" warning.

K

[Marcus Miller]

two questions:

A) Lefty- was this an RX-7? Are you sure whatever was orange, wasn't pre-mix? (I ask that from a perspective of ignorance, since I premix, but don't know if that is even legal in IT.) Those in SFR can feel free and protest me.

B ) Additives can easily be cancer causing and dangerous. Find out what it is, and make sure you are not putting yourself at risk by attending (particicpating, driving in, flagging, etc) the event.

Marcus

[Bill Miller]

As I said before, the system is truly broken.

[itaintegra31]

Originally posted by Marcus Miller@Jan 1 2006, 12:13 AM
Those in SFR can feel free and protest me.



Marcus

69711



I will besure and do that at our first race. LOL

[CaptainWho]

Originally posted by Marcus Miller@Dec 31 2005, 07:13 PM
A) Lefty- was this an RX-7? Are you sure whatever was orange, wasn't pre-mix? (I ask that from a perspective of ignorance, since I premix, but don't know if that is even legal in IT.) Those in SFR can feel free and protest me.

69711


Marcus, it was premix, but RX-7s aren't the only cars out there using premix. I've seen a lot of premix over the years, inside racing and outside, using a wide variety of base fuel and mix oil. I've never seen any that approached the flourescent orange of the "environmentally safe" antifreeze, and that's the color I saw being poured. I don't (yet) know what it was. I don't know if it was illegal or not. I don't know if the standard fuel tests would catch it. I'll attempt to find out, though.

[Bill Miller]

It's my understanding that the pre-mix really confounds the fuel tests. As was pointed out, the only sure way to do it, is w/ some type of analyitical instrument. GC/MS would be definative, but you could probably develop a regular GC method. LC _might_ work, but I imagine GC would be better. Or, you could possibly use an IR spectrophotometer, but you'd need known standards to compare against.

And GC's aren't all that delicate. I've seen old H-P 5880s and 5890s set up in some pretty rough mfg plant environments.

As Kirk pointed out, the fuel test port thing is pretty much a waste of time and money. When was the last time you heard of anyone in IT having their fuel randomly tested (ARRC notwithstanding)?

[Maddog]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Dec 31 2005, 03:57 PM
Andy,

The way I read it, they were working corners for the Regionals. Therefore, they are consider participants in the event, and have standing to protest.

69676


Workers can not protest a car, check GCR 13.4.

[Maddog]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Dec 31 2005, 05:17 PM
I believe as a worker they could file an RFA and then it would be up to a steward to deal with it.

As I read GCR 6.11.4 only the Chief Steward can file an RFA. Workers should have a chat with him.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Maddog@Jan 1 2006, 09:08 AM
As I read GCR 6.11.4 only the Chief Steward can file an RFA. Workers should have a chat with him.

69757


I agree, I think that if a TM was to talk to the Chief Stew then an RFA could be issued.

The real point is that if somebody is juicing their fuel its gonna cost us all. If anyone feels or see's this happening they need to take action.

[wbp]

It is incorrect that information on sanctions against officials is not in the GCR. See 6.6.2 and 6.6.3 of the GCR. But more information is in the Stewards Manual (bigger than the GCR!). Pay attention and you will notice volunteers who are no longer operating at the level they previously did, or that no longer participate as an official. But you certainly will not see any public notice posted anywhere of these actions. Sanctions do happen. but quietly.
As to the statment to never protest anyone in their home region, I don't think you will find a case where the Chairman of the Stewards of the Meet will be from the home region. See 6.10. The Chairman is the one assigned the duty to see that a fair hearing is held.
And the information that a corner worker can't initiate a protest is incorrect. But they will have to initiate it thru the Flag Chief, who is designated as an Official. (6.1). This provision applies to all workers, who must work thru their chief. And these protests do happen.

[RSTPerformance]

Talk to the guy... see what the stuff is!!! When it comes to something mechanical I would not even consider protesting someone who I havn't talked to first. I might talk to them, find them to be ignorant or an .... and then protest the same weekend, but I would at least try to talk to them first.

Good Luck;

Raymond

Andy, interesting catch on the corner workers...

[KevSC1]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Jan 1 2006, 11:30 AM
When was the last time you heard of anyone in IT having their fuel randomly tested (ARRC notwithstanding)?

69735


IRP, double regional May '03.

I don't think they did it this year.

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by itaintegra31@Dec 31 2005, 07:12 PM
I will besure and do that at our first race. LOL

69723

:023:

And see how many cool pictures I take of you guys beating our car! :P :lol:
http://images.miller-motorsports.com/links/donnaandbobact.jpg
(Our car not actually in photo, way too far back!)

Marcus

[tom_sprecher]

This goes way back but I seem to remember Bel-Ray made a high dollar 2 stroke oil that was "gold" in color. Maybe it was just oil.

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Jan 1 2006, 06:30 AM
When was the last time you heard of anyone in IT having their fuel randomly tested (ARRC notwithstanding)?

69735


You guys don't run in the MidWest Division, I can tell. We do random fuel testing at >50% of the races. The procedure involves specific gravity testing - as well as multiple reagent tests.

I'm NOT defending it, as a procedure - but I know of no better, workable, solution. If any of you guys has a "better" idea that is workable, I'd love to hear it. Current material cost is nearly $5 / test, so it isn't cheap to do. And I know of people who have been on both sides of the test - illegal fuel not caught, and legal fuel being disqualified.

I'm no fuel expert - but it is my understanding that one of the hot setups is an additive so volatile that it will boil off, leaving no trace, during the ~30 minutes from when it is added to the cell to when the car would get to impound.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by wbp@Jan 1 2006, 05:03 PM
And the information that a corner worker can't initiate a protest is incorrect. But they will have to initiate it thru the Flag Chief, who is designated as an Official. (6.1). This provision applies to all workers, who must work thru their chief. And these protests do happen.



6.1 also says "Any worker is considered an official."

[64oeg]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Jan 1 2006, 11:08 PM
Talk to the guy... see what the stuff is!!! When it comes to something mechanical I would not even consider protesting someone who I havn't talked to first. I might talk to them, find them to be ignorant or an .... and then protest the same weekend, but I would at least try to talk to them first.

Good Luck;

Raymond

Andy, interesting catch on the corner workers...

69799


Raymond, based on several of your recent posts, and the fact that you have acted as an SOM, and offered to help others with filing a protest, I would like to converse with you. Purely on a "proffesional" level, as I serve as the Chairman SOM at WHRRI. I personally would like more input as to how to handle protests, CSA's etc.

Sorry, the PM system on this board isn't working for me. :119: :angry: Hence this Hi-Jack of a thread. Also, if any CRB or ITAC members feel like discussing procedures with an WHRRI official I'ld welcome your input as well.

Thanks, My email is

[email protected]

BTW, with very few execptions, we follow the GCR. Thanks all, sorry for the hi-jack. Back to our regully scheduled debate :D

(edited to add my name) George Harkless.