buying an itb car , need track time/training.

[anrkii]

newb here,

i am buying an itb car this winter, the car is ready to go and needs nothing else (except a driver) but i am new to track racing.. soo.
where should i start? PDE maybe? or straight to the driving school?

i am definitely not going wtw right off the bat, so where should i start?

theres a driving school on the schedule for late march in stlouis, whom do i contact for this?

[dickita15]

where are you located

[zracre]

Definitely PDE's...you will learn more and be more aware of the cars around you after a few schools...ask lots of questions...there are plenty of people that will give you good and bad advise...listen with an open mind as you will always learn something every time you get behind the wheel...you will be more prepared at the first drivers school and have your car sorted before you go to SCCA school...It will make racing more enjoyable!! good luck!! what kind of car??

[SPiFF]

Put a second seat in the car and do a couple of HPDE weekends.

http://www.trackschedule.com/

Once you get confortable with drivingf the car, do the SCCA school and go racing.

I would think 4-6 HPDE weekdends depending on your learning curve should be more then enough to learn the basic car control needed to go racing.

Have fun .....

[JamesB]

Originally posted by anrkii@Dec 7 2005, 05:26 AM
newb here,

i am buying an itb car this winter, the car is ready to go and needs nothing else (except a driver) but i am new to track racing.. soo.
where should i start? PDE maybe? or straight to the driving school?

i am definitely not going wtw right off the bat, so where should i start?

theres a driving school on the schedule for late march in stlouis, whom do i contact for this?

67494



I would suggest getting as much seat time in the car as you can. Find some HPDE events if possible before the march school. Anything to get you out on the track before the school is a good thing. Also when you find PDE/HPDE events check the rules you might have to find some non R-comp tires to go since your an inexperienced driver and they won't let you out with R-comps.

As for the drivers school, registration information is with the St. Louis SCCA region hosting the event ([url=http://www.stlscca.org/]). To register you need to make sure you have an active SCCA membership and start working on your racing permit NOW. That way your all set by the time you get to that point.

There is a lot to learn at the school, I just took my first in october and not having to focus on my driving as much as relearning my racecraft really did make a difference for me.

Be safe, have fun and good luck.

[gran racing]

i am buying an itb car this winter

Does it have a current log book? Will it be up-to-date with the rules for 2006? There are a few changes such as to the roll cage. For my car, I will need to have some additional bars added this winter to be in compliance. Verify with the sell exactly what needs to be done for it to meet the 2006 safety requirements. Even if it does not meet the 2006 regs., at least you know what needs to be done.

As others said, go to some HPDEs before going to the SCCA school. Go watch some SCCA races and learn as much about what is going on as you can. Ask someone who is local to you (here on this board?) if you can join them as a "crew" member for a race.

What can you be doing right now? Buy some racing books and learn as much as you can. Going Faster, the Speed Secrets series (my favorite), and more. I personally am not very fond of reading but these books are different.

Best of luck and have fun!

[anrkii]

the car i am buying is an 85 crxsi with lots of spares. i have been driving and working on 84-87 hondas for 5 years now, so i dont expect any surprises from the car..

i just oredered the 06 gcr, and i am going to pour over it. i am not sure if he has a logbook for the car.. what kinds of things are typically kept in the logbook, anyway?

i live in springfield, mo. only three hours from gateway, and hallett, five from hpt, and six from memphis and midam, so i can go to events at all of these tracks.

so what kind of non race tires would you reccomend to use at hpe's? preferably cheap.

i am trying to find any fellow racers around my area to help me go over the car, and the rules changes. the car has not been raced since 03, so i imagine it will need a few touches.

[JamesB]

Getting the GCR is a good thing, you can also download it in PDF format, but having one is also good. PDE/HPDE events have their own rules, some limit tires on entry level drivers. For that a set of azenis will do the job for you.

Well if its log booked it will have history of when the cage was stamped, inspected and any major damage from incidents. Having one helps you in many respects.

If its been since 03 you will have some changes to make on the cage, some other little stuff and you will need new belts. SFI expire every 2 years, FIA tagged expire ever 5. All of this is in the GCR including log books and how they are issued.

Definitly get with some local racers for your SCCA region. You may even want to just wait for your first racing school to happen in the fall, this way you can take the season to get out there with the car, and get the car up to current SCCA specifications.

[Bill Miller]

As James said, you could have downloaded the GCR, and they way things are set up now, you get one every year when you renew your comp. license. No real incentive for a new member to buy one, until they get their license.

Now, to the question at hand. HPDE's are good, and I would also look into the SCCA Time Trial program. Don't know a whole lot about it, but I think it's like the old Solo I program. Get comfortable w/ the car, then start thinking about driver's school. Look at the school schedule, and see if you can time it right. For example, the WDCR runs two schools a year at Summit Point. The first one is early in the spring, before the MARRS series starts, and the other one is late in the year, after the series is over. Given the choice, I'd suggest doing the Fall school, work on the car over the winter, and then do the Spring school, the following year. If all goes well, you get signed off after the Spring school, and can run the rest of the year. Oh, and you can run on your log book for the first year. No sense in sending in the license fee until you renew your membership.

[anrkii]

pde - hpde, what is the difference?

also, will i need a passenger seat for these events?

[Eagle7]

Get your annual tech inspection done well in advance of the school. You may need time to fix things not in compliance. Definitely do NOT plan to get an annual tech at the school.

[JLawton]

Originally posted by anrkii@Dec 8 2005, 02:02 AM
pde - hpde, what is the difference?

also, will i need a passenger seat for these events?

67561



No difference between PDE and HPDE...

Yes, you'll need a passenger seat and EQUAL restraints for the instructor. The good news is that the harness restrictions aren't as tight as with the SCCA so you may be able to get a free set that is out dated (it's OK if the instructor has a questionable harness :D )

Tires: Get some Kumho or Toyo R compound. There "cheap" (relative term) and will last up to two seasons if you treat them right.

Good luck!!

[gran racing]

Even after you have the basics down and the club says you can go out without an intstructor, continue obtaining coaching! Sure, go out by yourself sometimes but take advantage of the years of experience and knowledge the instructors have. Coaching should never end. Yes, I still need and want additional coaching myself. :)

[mgyip]

Originally posted by JLawton@Dec 8 2005, 07:04 AM
No difference between PDE and HPDE...

67563


No difference in overall context or even content but isn't PDE SCCA's Performance Driving Events while HPDE NASA's High Performance Driving Events? SCCA recently started a Drivers Ed program to essentially feed their more advanced programs since they realized that the Solo and Race programs were fed by a mis-mash of marque clubs and local sports car clubs.

In any case, the advice you're rec'd is top notch - don't take this as a slam but if you've never been on the track before, a Competition Drivers School is the absolutely WRONG PLACE to learn. As James points out, at a Competition School, you're so overwhelmed with learning how to race that car control takes a very distant backseat to anything else. Even with 5 years of experience with Hondas, you'd be surprised what little things you can miss in car prep that will park you in the paddock for a session.

Find your local SCCA road racers - if by no other means than by attending a few local races and sniffing around the paddock in the spring. If you're so inclined, offer your services as crew so that you'll be exposed to all facets of racing since only about .001% of it is the glory and the rest of racing is the pain and suffering of fixing stuff, chasing gremlins (the mechanical and electrical kind - very few sick individuals would actually race a Gremlin :D ), and ultimately paying for racing.

[OTLimit]

Contact people from Ozark Mountain region. There are a lot of GREAT drivers and workers from that region, many of whom live in Springfield. You might contact some of the Prod guys who live down there also, they are very friendly.

Good luck.

[JamesB]

the reason I use PDE/HPDE is everyone has a name for it and its just easier to call it that so noone gets confused.

Bill, Matt and Jeff make a great point. If your going to buy the car this year buy it. And then track it. Most of the PDE events out there will not let a new driver (one with little to zero) track time out on R-comp tires. So thats why I said to check their rules.

Spend this year getting involved with SCCA, getting out to the races, asking and learning. At the same time take the season to prep the car and get as much seat time as you can afford in the car. Then start your run for two schools near the end of the season.

Even after my one school, I was overwhelmed mentally with trying to find my momentum and handle passing. I still expect my second to be just as overwhelming. And I am sure my first time in a race will be a bit to chew at the same time. You really have not time to sit there thinking mostly about your car controll when someone is knocking on your doorstep to pass you. ITs a lot easier when its second nature to understand the line, the turn in and track out when now your just trying to hit your marks consistantly and find your way around the car in front of you.

Its not an easy quest and these guys are a wealth of information before you already, in part many here have in one way or another helped me get this far.

[anrkii]

so the restraints have to be equal, but what abot he seats? can i slap in an oe seat for the passenger, or do i have to shell out the $$$ for a second racing seat?

also, how does the weight system work? my car must be 2130lbs to race, so is the extra weight permanently attached to the car? or is there supposed to be a weight rack with changeable weights in there? (havent seen the car up close yet)

you guys are a big help.

[anrkii]

oh , the pde's are listed on two day weekends, is it a two day event? or 2 one day events?

in other words, fo i get to drive on both days?

[JamesB]

the min weight is what you car must weigh at or more then when the weight is checked, so figure you want to make the weight when you come in from a race with your fuel nearly spent. The GCR covers how you are to add weight to the car in an approved manor.

If a PDE is listed as a 2 full day event then you will likely see track time both days. Most PDE's try to give every group about an hour a day of on track time.

You dont need to have a second race seat. I did because I had access to one that used the stock mounting brackets. but you can use an OEM, just make sure its set properly with the belts.

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by JamesB@Dec 8 2005, 04:16 PM
If a PDE is listed as a 2 full day event then you will likely see track time both days. Most PDE's try to give every group about an hour a day of on track time.

You dont need to have a second race seat. I did because I had access to one that used the stock mounting brackets. but you can use an OEM, just make sure its set properly with the belts.

67631


PDE's (now called PDX for SCCA) vary a lot from organization to organization. Most can be run on a single day basis, if you see one listed for two days, look at the entry fee and see if it has a one day and two day option or references which days you will attend. It's not as common to lock people in to two full days, but that can be the case. Time on track will vary also, but my goal when we put on one is a MINIMUM of two hours per day. Depending on the cost I wouldn't take much less. A second seat will give you much more immediate instruction as you'll have an instructor sitting there to tell you what you're doing wrong and right. Other than that they are a good way to get some seat time.

[gran racing]

Just an idea. If a club gives you flack about the instructor having an OEM seat while you have a racing seat, swap them. Give the instructor the race seat and you use the OEM seat. Ideally you would practice driving the car with the race seat to become more familiar with it (the feel) but it sure beats spending more money!

[anrkii]

seats expire every five years, dont they? wen it expires should i get a seat brace for an older seat. or just pick up a new seat?

im not sure just how old the seat is in the car yet.

also, the instructor will need a 5-point if the driver does, right?

i should be picking the car up next weekend, hopefully.

[anrkii]

also, is neck protection required/reccomended? i didnt notice it in the gcr..

what kind do you prefer?>

[JLawton]

Originally posted by anrkii@Dec 9 2005, 01:59 AM
seats expire every five years, dont they? wen it expires should i get a seat brace for an older seat. or just pick up a new seat?

im not sure just how old the seat is in the car yet.

also, the instructor will need a 5-point if the driver does, right?

i should be picking the car up next weekend, hopefully.

67688


Seats don't expire, but the belts do. Yes, if you have a 5 point, the instructor must have one. Usually the seats must be "equal" as well. (equal, as in both seats need to be race seats)

Neck restraints usually aren't required...........but recomended......

[x-ring]

For the right side seat, I install one of those plastic drag racing seats from Jegs (or maybe it was Summit?) on a mount I had welded up. Nothing fancy, but way better than an OEM seat. IIRC, the seat and cover was around $75.

No one is going to care what your car weighs at a PDE, so don't sweat it. I've never even seen a scale at a PDE.

As for H & N restraint, it's Isaac all the way for me. Anything is better than nothing, though. Check the archives, read up on the Wright Device. I heard it was out of production since Jay Wright's passing, but if not it's worth a look. Ugly but effective and inexpensive.

Welcome to the madness.

[gran racing]

While Jeff is correct that seats don't expire, the certification date does impact if it needs a seat back brace or not. When I build my car, I got a great deal on a used seat. Yahoo! Or not. :( Because of the FIA certification / date, I needed to have a seat back brace fabricated. But don't listen to us, read the GCR. Yeah I know it is really, really hard to believe, but I guess there is a very minute chance of us being wrong once. :D