MARRS + NARRC

[Dave Zaslow]

I would like to see the June Watkins Glen MARRS race also be a NARRC race. Would you support such an initiative? Would this have traction outside of the IT classes?

I think NARRC should include the Glen and this woulld be a great event with both groups getting togrther.

As I understand it the $5 NARRC fee would need to be collected only from the NARRC drivers. Is this institutionally possible? Would the Glen Region agree to such a move?

The Mini-con is coming up and perhaps it could be discussed there.

I invite your comments.

Yours,

Dave Zaslow

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dave,

I think it's an excellent idea. The NARRC series would then be run at four tracks (NHIS, LRP, Pocono and WGI). It would provide for an excellent Divisional series.

The NERRC is just fine the way it is for Regional-Only NER guys...IMHO.

Here is the only hiccup as *I* see it (Dick and Brian can weigh in on other issues):

We need NARRC representation at the event to validate legality for NARRC drivers. NARRC stickers so proper points car be allocated, Series rules can be enforced etc. This was an issue at this years NARRC race at Pocono.

Send a note to the NARRC and MARRS committee people.

AB

[dickita15]

Dave I assume you mean the July Sprints Glen regional. Last year it was a marrs, nysrrc and nerrc. If so my understanding is that the Glen Region would like it to be a narrc as well. It is the Narrc committee that decided against it last year. The weekend conflicted with the NNJR LRP national and given the cost to run a race a LRP it was thought that siphoning of car that could run either event to go to the glen would hurt NNJR
The schedule at lime rock is up in the air at this point but the same conflict may apply this year.
You are right the question will be decided at the Ne Div mini con Nov 12 at the Narrc committee meeting. There are 8 votes at that meeting. They are the RE’s and racing chairs for the four regions NER, NYR, NNJR and Mo-Hud.

By the way the July Sprints last year was my first time at the Glen and I had a ball despite the full course yellow and a spin in the race.

[mlytle]

Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 30 2005, 02:55 PM
Dave I assume you mean the July Sprints Glen regional. Last year it was a marrs, nysrrc and nerrc. If so my understanding is that the Glen Region would like it to be a narrc as well. It is the Narrc committee that decided against it last year. The weekend conflicted with the NNJR LRP national and given the cost to run a race a LRP it was thought that siphoning of car that could run either event to go to the glen would hurt NNJR
The schedule at lime rock is up in the air at this point but the same conflict may apply this year.
You are right the question will be decided at the Ne Div mini con Nov 12 at the Narrc committee meeting. There are 8 votes at that meeting. They are the RE’s and racing chairs for the four regions NER, NYR, NNJR and Mo-Hud.

By the way the July Sprints last year was my first time at the Glen and I had a ball despite the full course yellow and a spin in the race.

64013

the july glen regional race next year probably won't be a marrs event. marrs is looking to go to mid ohio in august instead.

[benspeed]

Dave - you have huge support from the NNJR board on this suggestion. We very much deisre a NARRC race at the Glen. Preferably a double weekend like the Fun One which shouldn't overlap the NARRC schedule.

Anything we can do to make this happen is on my shoulders. Let me know what I need to do!

PS - heard that there might be a requested 11 NARRC races at NHIS? If so, why? That makes the whole championship won by the NHIS track expert. I'll run the NYSSRC and NNJR championships if that's the case. (Besides the fact that NHIS is in the middle of friggin northern nowhere - and I'm from NE so I can say that!) Let's make the NARRC a fair tow for all competitiors.

NHIS is very, very, very far away. Nelson Ledges is in friggin Ohio and the tow is the same for people from metro NJ, NY.

[Andy Bettencourt]

This year the NARRC track breakdown was as follows:

NHIS 6 points events on 4 race weekends
LRP 5 points events on 4 race weekends**
Pocono 2 points events on 1 race weekend

So the dates were evenly spread out between NHIS and LRP with one Pocono thrown in.

To me, if you add in one WGI Double, you have a nice situation.

AB

**Including the MANDITORY Runoffs to be eligible for a title**

[Dave Zaslow]

It seems we need the MARRS folks to comment here. I guess they might be looking at only one "out of region" event. Perhaps the temptation of MARRS vs. NARRC, and the interest/revenue that would bring, could get the three involved groups talking.

While I do have a personal preference for the June date, I was basing my choice on an existing relationship and date between the Glen region and the MARRS series.

I have written my RE in NYR.

MARRS folks care to chime in?

Dave Z


Originally posted by mlytle@Oct 30 2005, 10:37 PM
the july glen regional race next year probably won't be a marrs event. marrs is looking to go to mid ohio in august instead.

64055

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dave,

Logistically this could be tough BUT I will try and combine the three ideas:

1. Take the WGI race in June that was a NERRC race and add it to the NARRC schedule.

2. Develop a MARRS/NARRC Challenge Cup. One event at LRP, one at Pocono and one at WGI make up a 3 track bragging-rights series. The award would be an annual one with a nice trophy to be passed between the groups.

It seems that adding a WGI race to the NARC schedule wouldn't be hard should all the voting members in attendance at the mini-con be into it.

AB

[RP Performance]

[

My understanding is that the MARRS series will not be going to Watkins Glen next year but Mid Ohio instead.

[RSTPerformance]

I strongly feel that races (yes raceS, IE more than just one event) at the Glen should be part of the NORTH ATLANTIC Road Racing Championship. It would make this series open to a lot more people. I like the idea of more events and anyone who thinks that the Glen shouldn't be part of this championship should explain in detail why. I think that the series could add more events and keep the total races counted at 8 races. This could add to more "ties" in points, however this will or could be set up to make the Runoffs more important, If thier is a tie the person with a higher finishng position at the NARRC runoffs wins the tie, if niether run in the NARRC Runoffs then they are not elligable for the championship.

I personally feel that ALL of the regional races at ALL of the tracks that the Northeast National series goes to should count towards that NORTH ATLANTIC ROAD RACING CHAMPIONSHIP. Who doens't think that every race in the "NORTH ATLANTIC" shouldn't be considered part of the NORTH ATLANTIC Road Racing Championship? why?

Any chance we can get names of the voting members on the committee who don't vote for at least the one race addition at the Glen?

Raymond "bigger is better" Blethen

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by Dave Zaslow@Oct 31 2005, 08:06 AM
It seems we need the MARRS folks to comment here. I guess they might be looking at only one "out of region" event. Perhaps the temptation of MARRS vs. NARRC, and the interest/revenue that would bring, could get the three involved groups talking.

While I do have a personal preference for the June date, I was basing my choice on an existing relationship and date between the Glen region and the MARRS series.

I have written my RE in NYR.

MARRS folks care to chime in?

Dave Z

64075


Dave, the MARRS series also goes to VIR in May also.......................... Sheeesh !! If MARRS goes to VIR and Mid Ohio next year that makes a few looooong tows for a guy who likes to run with the MARRS crowd.... :unsure:

[mlytle]

Originally posted by Dave Zaslow@Oct 31 2005, 12:06 PM
It seems we need the MARRS folks to comment here. I guess they might be looking at only one "out of region" event. Perhaps the temptation of MARRS vs. NARRC, and the interest/revenue that would bring, could get the three involved groups talking.

While I do have a personal preference for the June date, I was basing my choice on an existing relationship and date between the Glen region and the MARRS series.

I have written my RE in NYR.

MARRS folks care to chime in?

Dave Z

64075

you quoted a marrs guy.... :)

some issues at the glen event this summer led to a desire to try somewhere else next year. overwhelming vote by the marrs drivers was to go to mid-ohio instead of the glen. we (marrs) will be doing vir with sarcc in may.

[Dave Zaslow]

Sorry you folks are taking your marbles and going further west. Is this a done deal or did NASA take the dates? If not fully cooked yet does this at least sound interesting?

I don't know what the MARRS/WGI issues were so I cannot comment.

If there was a MARRS - NARRC trophy it would only be right if NARRC visited Summit Point for a MARRS weekend. Where they would park the cars is beyond me <_<

Still, this might make it easier to have Glen Region subscribe to the idea of their race(s) being NARRC&#39;ed. The &#39;Fun One&#39; (Finger Lakes Region) is a very popular event and IMHO doesn&#39;t need the boost. So that leaves the July and October races. The October race is a one day regional, but also has the three hour enduro on Saturday after the school.

The real question is if there are then too many NARRC races and which, if any should be dropped. 2 at Pocono for the double, 3 at Lime Rock, 3 at NHIS, and 2 at WGI seems like a good season. The NARRC-offs would then be a 4th LRP race.

So who will be at the Mini-con and what is the timetable for setting the regional schedule for next year?

Dave Z

[JamesB]

From what I hear the issue with WGI is their attitude towards the WDCR/MARRS workers. These guys travel all the way up there and pride working the meet. But, WGI just doesnt treat them with the professional respect they deserve. So going to Mid-Ohio was an agreeable solution to the drivers and the workers.

[mlytle]

that and the penchant for double yellow flags at the glen. kinda annoying to drive all the way up there for a race that is run mostly behind a pace car.

at least that is what i heard from some of the other run groups...the its/srx7 race i was in only had one "extra" lap behind the pace car.

love the track and the racing up there and would love to go back to the glen with marrs in the future.

[mgyip]

There were also some rather troubling incidents where SCCA&#39;s workers were unsure of the correct grid positions and decided to "wing it" rather than to determine the correct positions. I also spoke with a few DC Region workers (some of whom actually admit to knowing me in public) - one worker volunteered to work and was told to "report at 3 pm on Sunday and we&#39;ll let you know if we need you". That is just RUDE - either accept the volunteer&#39;s offer or reject it rather than forcing that volunteer to wait around until EVERYONE ELSE HAS GONE HOME except for the last race group. Another worker vehemently disagrees with WGI&#39;s policy of no workers on the track - as he so eloquently put it, "I accept the risk of injury or death to work a corner station and aid a racer in distress".

To echo Marshall&#39;s comments, towing 7+ hours one-way, staying 2 nights in a hotel and provide food (meow) and drink ( :birra: ) for 5 or 6 laps of green-flag racing just isn&#39;t worth the effort. IIRC, this is the 3rd or 4th year that the MARRS series has travelled to the Glen. Every year the negatives increase - after this season, the negatives have finally started to outweigh the positives and it&#39;s time for the MARRS series to travel elsewhere.

[dj10]

Sheeesh !! If MARRS goes to Mid Ohio next year that makes a looooong tow for a guy who likes to run with the MARRS crowd.... :unsure:

64112
[/quote]

Can&#39;t wait for MARRS crowd to come to Mid- O!

YUM YUM FRESH MEAT ;)
dj

[dave parker]

Hey Group,
I think that you will find that the MARRS competitors would be happy to partcipate in a MARRS/NARRC event. But it would involve the North Atlantic group coming up with a track that could handle the amount of cars. Remember it is not uncommon for the MARRS series to go to an away race with 300 MARRS cars alone, not to mention the "other group" that hosts the event. The DC Region would have a hard time hosting an event like this because we already have 350 to 400 cars showing up for a regional at Summit Point. Where our maximum for an event is 400.

So to pull this off you would need a track that could have at least 60 but more like 75 cars on the track at once. This instantly eliminates the following tracks:
Limey Rock
Summit Point
Beaverun
NHIS
Pocono
Nelson Ledges

Leaving Watkins Glen, as the only track that could support an event like this. Sadly, the "you DON&#39;T matter to us" attitude displayed by the Watkins Glen staff and the Glen Region officials really left many of the MARRS competitors NOT wanting to return there. I personally chose not to run any events put on by the Glen Region, even though that denies me what I consider to be one of the best road racing tracks in the country.

I think that Thunderbolt Raceway would be able to handle such an event, but I am unwilling to look at this until that track is officially open.

So I guess for 2006 we will look forward to SARRC/MARRS @VIR and the WOR Games @Mid Ohio. As well as the regular MARRS races at Summit Point.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[SRX7#27]

Well, here&#39;s the skinny from the MARRS camp.. At our MARRS competition committee meeting on 11/3, it was announced the August date we had planned to run with Western Ohio region at Mid-O is no longer happening.. Reportedly, Mid-O management is unhappy with SCCA for moving the runoffs and some of the traditonal SCCA dates have been given to other clubs.. WOR has been offered the second weekend in October for the double regional, but there wasn&#39;t much support for this since it&#39;s the same weekend as the Runoffs at Heartless Park..
Nearly everybody voted for a second away race weekend (in addition to the now traditional VIR SARRC/MARRS double in May), and a very possible event is the late July Glen Regional, assuming the Glen region is willing to have us back. The only issue would be that we&#39;d have back to back races with the Glen happening the weekend after a Summit MARRS.. But we&#39;ve done this before and I&#39;d certainly like to see MARRS at the Glen again in 06.
Since we have some time to play with, the RE is checking with other regions to see which other away races MARRS could do. Other than Beaver Run or Nelson Ledges, there aren&#39;t many other options. Pocano is almost never mentioned as a possibility even though it&#39;s only 2.5 hours from DC. Apparently nobody wants to go..
I&#39;d be very surprised if we ended up doing a race other than the July Glen race.. But I&#39;d go back to Nelson in a heartbeat! -Al G

[Dave Zaslow]

Well I guess, by default, things look better for getting an event put together. Here are the spokesmodels for NARRC to ahom you should nake your wishes known:

NARRC VOTING COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Mohawk-Hudson

Reg’l Exec.
Gene Tricozzi
[email protected]

New England

Reg’l Exec.
Kathy Barnes
[email protected]

New York

Reg’l Exec.
Chris Morales
[email protected]

Northern New Jersey

Reg’l Exec.
Frank Cioppettini
[email protected]

2005 OFFICIALS – (non-voting)

Secretary
Dave Panas
[email protected]

Treasurer
Chip Van Slyke
[email protected]

I could not find their MARRS equivalents, but someone please chime in with a contact.

There are really two issues. One is holdng a NARRC race at WGI by working with the Glen and FLR regions. The other is making that event a MARRS + NARRC race.

Anyone going to the Mini-con want to volunteer to speak up? Unfortunatly I am otherwise engaged.

Hopefully,

Dave Z


Originally posted by SRX7#27@Nov 9 2005, 12:44 AM
Well, here&#39;s the skinny from the MARRS camp.. At our MARRS competition committee meeting on 11/3, it was announced the August date we had planned to run with Western Ohio region at Mid-O is no longer happening.. Reportedly, Mid-O management is unhappy with SCCA for moving the runoffs and some of the traditonal SCCA dates have been given to other clubs.. WOR has been offered the second weekend in October for the double regional, but there wasn&#39;t much support for this since it&#39;s the same weekend as the Runoffs at Heartless Park..
Nearly everybody voted for a second away race weekend (in addition to the now traditional VIR SARRC/MARRS double in May), and a very possible event is the late July Glen Regional, assuming the Glen region is willing to have us back. The only issue would be that we&#39;d have back to back races with the Glen happening the weekend after a Summit MARRS.. But we&#39;ve done this before and I&#39;d certainly like to see MARRS at the Glen again in 06.
Since we have some time to play with, the RE is checking with other regions to see which other away races MARRS could do. Other than Beaver Run or Nelson Ledges, there aren&#39;t many other options. Pocano is almost never mentioned as a possibility even though it&#39;s only 2.5 hours from DC. Apparently nobody wants to go..
I&#39;d be very surprised if we ended up doing a race other than the July Glen race.. But I&#39;d go back to Nelson in a heartbeat! -Al G

64981

[Bill Miller]

I think a lot of it has to do w/ the attitude at the track. Don&#39;t get me wrong, I love Watkins Glen, and think it is one of the best tracks in the US. But the attitude of the track mgmt. is a bit much. And it&#39;s been that way for a looooonnnnggggg time. I can&#39;t tell you how many BFA&#39;s I&#39;ve seen up there.

As far as distance from Summit Point to Watkins Glen vs. Summit Point to Mid-Ohio, I looked at it on the map, and SP -> WG is ~ 300 miles, and SP -> M-O is ~375 miles. That&#39;s not a ton of difference, maybe 1 1/2 hours of extra tow. Nelson Ledges is pretty much the same distance as M-O (but not in the same league as WG). SP -> Beaver Run is ~240 miles, so it&#39;s about an hour closer than WG or NL. And while the long course at Pocono is not bad, I agree, it&#39;s not really worth it.

Let&#39;s hope that Thunderbolt Raceway, in southern NJ comes on line quickly. The latest I heard, was that they got approval from the local municipality, to move forward with the project. For those that don&#39;t know about this, it&#39;s being run by the same people that did VIR. Here&#39;s a link to their site.

http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/

I&#39;m guessing that the Rausch Creek project is pretty much dead. At least the road course aspect of it. :(

[JamesB]

Yeah it would be great if that works out and could be a great track to head to.

As for Mid-Ohio giving the august date away to another orginaztion, it does suck and the date given during the runoffs I take as a big snub as they know it wouldn&#39;t be easy given how many workers head out for that (though no clue how many now that its a longer drive.)

If WGI where to happen the weekend after a SP event I would likely sit it out. Finding someone to care for the dogs two weekends in a row might not be possible and taking them with me is really not an option for WGI.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by JamesB@Nov 9 2005, 12:29 PM
If WGI where to happen the weekend after a SP event I would likely sit it out. Finding someone to care for the dogs two weekends in a row might not be possible and taking them with me is really not an option for WGI.

65014


I&#39;d rather bag the SP event in lieu of the Glen, especially if you&#39;re interested in gathering "free" points.

It was a bit difficult to hear that Mid-Ohio was taking their revenge on SCCA by giving away dates to NASA - more than a bit childish IMHO. I don&#39;t know how strong NASA is in that area but it may be an eye-opener for Mid-Ohio to work with a different sanctioning body. I&#39;ve never been to Nelson but after all the horror stories, I don&#39;t know that I want to go unless I can bring my lawn tractor, trencher, weedwacker, insecticide sprayer AND can race my truck b/c it has ground clearance to keep the frame off the pavement over the large pot-crevices.

[JamesB]

Point taken, as I would love to race that track. I guess I could give up a SP event.