240SX brake pads and rotors

[DavidM]

What are you guys using for pads and rotors? I need new pads and I think I'm going to get new rotors as well. I guess there's the usual suspects for pads: Hawk Blue, EBC, etc. For rotors, are the AutoZone/Advanced/NAPA/name your chain rotors just as good as the Brembos?

Thanks.

David

[stevel]

we use the autozone rotors and hawk blues. For the rotors, I don't see the difference in performance and the autozone rotors are so cheap. Hawk blues have worked best. We've tried carbotech XP9's and wasn't too thrilled with them to say the least. These cars are well equipped brake wise that they are pretty low maintenance. Pads last quite a while. Not even 2 sets per season.

P.S. I would never put a pad made by EBC on any car. If you wanna try a brand other than hawk you could try carbotech (your experience may differ) or Cobalt. I've heard good things about Cobalt but never used them.

steve

[zracre]

Originally posted by stevel@Oct 5 2005, 01:57 PM
I've heard good things about Cobalt but never used them.

steve

61841



I use hawk blue for the integra with great results, but they eat up rotors alot faster than the cobalts...the cobalts work good with good rotor wear, but lack the initial bite the hawks have. They do work good in the rain as you can be harder on them with less lock up tendencies. Your best bet is to try both and see how they work with your car and driving style.

[Joe Harlan]

As a Hawk dealer and I test a ton of pads I would have to say go with the Hawk HT10 compound up front and blue(9012 in the rear on that car) use temp paint on the rotors and adjust the brake ducting to keep pad in the proper heat range. Rotors do make a difference. I prefer the brembos over the cheapo stuff only because I have never exploded a Brembo.

Joe

[its66]

IIRC, the HT-10's are only available for the regular, non-abs front brakes. When I last checked, they weren't available for the "ABS" brakes.

[erlrich]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Oct 5 2005, 05:05 PM
As a Hawk dealer and I test a ton of pads I would have to say go with the Hawk HT10 compound up front and blue(9012 in the rear on that car) use temp paint on the rotors and adjust the brake ducting to keep pad in the proper heat range. Rotors do make a difference. I prefer the brembos over the cheapo stuff only because I have never exploded a Brembo.

Joe

61862


Joe, do you find that you must use a proportioning valve with that setup? The reason I ask is that I've been running the Hawk blues up front with KVRs in the rear, and the last couple of times I've been out I've noticed if I get a little too aggressive with the braking it's always the rears that lock first. I'm at the point where I feel I either need to install a proportioning valve or go to a less effective rear pad (i.e. a stock pad), the later of which I'm not too keen on.

Back to the original question, are you guys finding you need to replace rotors every time you replace pads? I'm about to put on a fresh set of pads, and was noticing the rotors are about done also.

[slickS14]

David, I use Hawk Blues on front and back with the most success on my ITS S14. I use Brembo ABS rotors on front and throw them away when I notice slight heat cracking. Like another driver said, I use maybe two sets per season and I run most of the SARRC schedule. If the rears are too aggressive for you then try a Hawk Black compound or the HPS street series is good too. I use AP600 fluid and service it regularly, these cars have great brakes. Come see me at the SIC this weekend if your going. Chris Newberry PS - My car is still for sale.... and will be race ready for the next owner in time for the ARRC! 404-314-5042

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by its66@Oct 5 2005, 08:16 PM
IIRC, the HT-10's are only available for the regular, non-abs front brakes. When I last checked, they weren't available for the "ABS" brakes.

61895



I do use a prop valve. but here is the catch. When the brakes are cold I click out 3 clicks of rear. Once we get full temp I put it all back in. The blue tends to get to much bite until the fronts get temp.


Now as far as the other goes I can get HT10 for either ABS or Non-ABS..

[stevel]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Oct 6 2005, 02:14 PM
I do use a prop valve. but here is the catch. When the brakes are cold I click out 3 clicks of rear. Once we get full temp I put it all back in. The blue tends to get to much bite until the fronts get temp.
Now as far as the other goes I can get HT10 for either ABS or Non-ABS..

61933



joe,

How long do you take to get full temp? 2 laps? I ask because I would be interested in trying that setup but I don't have an adjustable prop valve.

what's the HT10 compound? could you tell us more about it?

steve

[7racing]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Oct 5 2005, 09:05 PM
I would have to say go with the Hawk HT10 compound up front and blue(9012 in the rear on that car) use temp paint on the rotors and adjust the brake ducting to keep pad in the proper heat range. Rotors do make a difference. I prefer the brembos over the cheapo stuff only because I have never exploded a Brembo.

Joe

61862


Pretty much my exact setup. The HT10 I think was built for a heavier car (i'm sure Joe will correct any misinformation here), with better initial bite characteristics. I decided to give them a try based on the nose heavy tendencies of the 240 and it's ITA race weight (being heavier than the RX7 and Miata that I came from). That and I didn't like the feel of the Blue compound up front...just didn't have enough bite. The HT10 on front, blue in rear with Brembo rotors rocked! No fade, great pedal feel, no loss of breaking during a session, etc. I know I was much happier with this setup.

And I do NOT run a proportioning valve with this setup. I have also not done a lot of heat testing (read: none). Just take it a little easy the first couple of laps until it feels right and ride the brake pedal during the pace lap a lot.

Jeremy

[DavidM]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm not pushing hard enough nor good enough yet to feel a difference between pads probably. I just know that the pads I have are shot. I don't even know what brand pads came on the car. I have a set of pads (again, brand unknown) that Bob gave me with the car and that's what I'm going to use for the SIC. I'll probably pick up a set of cheapo AutoZone rotors to put on as well. I'll spend some bucks for a new set of pads before the ARRC.

Anybody going to the SIC, I'll see you guys tomorrow.

David

[MikeITA240SX]

I realize this thread has been quiet for a while, but I am just getting back into the forum and wanted to add my experiences.

I run a 240SX S13 in ITA in ICSCC, the regional conference here in the Pacific Northwest. I work a lot with Joe Harlan, and we have tried a few different combinations. What I have ended up liking best is the Brembo rotors (ABS) with Hawk Blue pads front and rear. This set up has excellent initial and has never faded or glazed on me.

I do not have a proportioning valve, and have never felt the need of one. All four corners' brakes are working, judging by the wear. I used to not feel like I had enough rear brake action, but after Joe fixed me up some awesome ducts for up front, and I went with the Blues on both ends, everything has seemed to come into balance very well.

One of the tracks we run is a realtively short (1.4 something) with lots of turns, and it can be a brake eater. I might throw in a set of HT-10s for use there, but I really haven't found them to be necessary.

I tried the old formulation of the HT-10s (or maybe they were HT-9s - can't recall for sure) a couple years ago before I had the super ducts. They were superior to the Blues, because they could take more heat, which was proving to be a bit much for the Blues at times. One the other hand, they REQUIRED more heat to work well. The big problem I had was that they cracked and the pad material came away from the backing plate! Joe has told me that they have been reformulated. But at this point, I simply don't need them - the Blues work so well, and the pad/rotor wear is pretty well balanced.

[TBreu007]

I just got back from testing at Sebring where there is a couple really hard braking areas. My setup is ABS front brakes, hawk blues all around, and decent front ducts. My findings are even with a Tilton proportioning valve with full front bias, rears were locking up first...especially when the brakes weren't fully up to temp. As the temps rose, braking got more balanced, but rears still locked up.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by TBreu007@Nov 20 2005, 05:29 PM
I just got back from testing at Sebring where there is a couple really hard braking areas. My setup is ABS front brakes, hawk blues all around, and decent front ducts. My findings are even with a Tilton proportioning valve with full front bias, rears were locking up first...especially when the brakes weren't fully up to temp. As the temps rose, braking got more balanced, but rears still locked up.

66099


What were your front rotor temps. Sebring would have long periods to cool which would make the front temps likely to cool. When you say full front bias you are reducing rear brakes correct?

[TBreu007]

I didn't have heat indicating paint on the rotors, and don't have a IR pyrometer, so I don't know the temps got to...this was mostly a motor break-in session.
The places I was having the most problem with the rears was turn 3 (hard braking area after a very long straight), turn 7 into the safety pin (hard braking after long straight), turn 10 (hard braking after straight). Now that I think about it, is there a such thing as easy braking on a race track?
Maybe next time, I'll close up the ducts a little.

My brake adjuster is of the pressure limiting type, so yes, the rear brakes were limited to their max.

I guess changing to larger ABS calipers up front and not changing the size of the rear calipers causes the rears to have too much pressure. I didn't have the issue with non-ABS brakes.

[murphyd]

Joe, Do you make custom ducts for the s14? I currently duct from the nose into a 2 1/2" hose into a "custom" duct that vents to the center of the hub/rotor with a little overlap to the side area of the rotor. Haven't notoiced any problems as we use the Hawk blues in front with a "metal master" type pad in the rear with a lever style prop. valve set 1 click from full rear.

[turboICE]

Some did, but not all do - when posting about 240SX braking please indicate ABS or non-ABS front calipers and rotors.

I picked up the car with non-ABS blue fronts and hp+ in the rear. Switched the rear to blues and the rear would lock much too early on hair pins (especially with down hill entries unloading the rear during braking like Summit T5 but also flat for instance Lime Rock T1).

I switched the front to ABS calipers and rotors (increases front braking effort) and now running blue front and rear I am happy with the setup and haven't locked the rear since.

Also note that I only have a few seasons on track and as braking is supposedly the last thing a driver learns to do right - take that into consideration in my response. ;)

[Joe Harlan]

David I run a 97/98 front end on mine. So ducting was easy I have to go look a 95/96 front end to remember how they look. I have been considering making a set of fully back ducts for the 240 so the air gets forced through the rotor. I don't have a problem with lesser pads in the rear I just hate to give up any level of braking when it can be adjusted to be there. The other key question I have forgtten to ask is has the ABS pump been removed. It seems you can't just unplug the Nissan pump or it will bias a ton to the rear. I still really suggest to every one. Get some temp paint and paint your rotors to determine what pads are best for your driving style and the tracks you are running. In some cases less ducting in front can be a benefit to maintain proper pad and rotor temp.

[DavidM]

Since I started this thread and it was resurrected I thought I'd post a follow-up. I got a new set of Hawk Blue pads, front and rear, for the ARRC. My fronts are the non-ABS variety and I don't have a proportioning valve. It seemed that, with my limited experience, the initial bite was better than whatever pads I was using before (the old pads were on the car when I bought it). I found myself slowing down way too early for the corners. Note that I am still a wuss on the brakes so it could be that I'm just starting to get the hang of this braking thing.

I did notice that the blue paint on the rear pads changed to a silver color. I didn't see this on the fronts. I don't know if that means the rears got hotter than the fronts. I don't have temp paint (yet) so I don't know what temperatures I was seeing. I thought it was kind of weird.

As for duct work, I have a 2-port inlet duct on each side mounted in the bottom of the air dam. It essientially gets air from under the front of the car and funnels it to the brakes. One piece of duct attaches to the brake disc shield to cool the rotor and the other is zip tied to the caliper to cool it.

David

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by DavidM@Nov 21 2005, 12:29 PM
Since I started this thread and it was resurrected I thought I'd post a follow-up. I got a new set of Hawk Blue pads, front and rear, for the ARRC. My fronts are the non-ABS variety and I don't have a proportioning valve. It seemed that, with my limited experience, the initial bite was better than whatever pads I was using before (the old pads were on the car when I bought it). I found myself slowing down way too early for the corners. Note that I am still a wuss on the brakes so it could be that I'm just starting to get the hang of this braking thing.

I did notice that the blue paint on the rear pads changed to a silver color. I didn't see this on the fronts. I don't know if that means the rears got hotter than the fronts. I don't have temp paint (yet) so I don't know what temperatures I was seeing. I thought it was kind of weird.

As for duct work, I have a 2-port inlet duct on each side mounted in the bottom of the air dam. It essientially gets air from under the front of the car and funnels it to the brakes. One piece of duct attaches to the brake disc shield to cool the rotor and the other is zip tied to the caliper to cool it.

David

66183
David get rid of the duct pointed at the caliper. You will have a better pedal all the time. The pads are larger and thicker in the front so if all were new you would see the paint on the rear change color first.

[Tristan Smith]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 21 2005, 07:38 PM
David get rid of the duct pointed at the caliper. You will have a better pedal all the time. The pads are larger and thicker in the front so if all were new you would see the paint on the rear change color first.

66186



JOE, Just remember we race in the southeast during the height of summer. While the ARRC was cool enough this year, most of the time I try to get as much cooling on all parts of the front brakes as possible. I pretty much have the same ducting as David does, and i recommend that he keeps it as is.

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by Tristan Smith@Nov 21 2005, 04:16 PM
JOE, Just remember we race in the southeast during the height of summer. While the ARRC was cool enough this year, most of the time I try to get as much cooling on all parts of the front brakes as possible. I pretty much have the same ducting as David does, and i recommend that he keeps it as is.

66211

I understand guys, try to get more cooling into the rotor if you can. The I see fluid boil more times thsn not when you start chilling the caliper body. You want direc your heat. Heat will travel to the coldest surface first. Allow the pad to transfer heat to the rotor rather than the caliper.