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bobpink
10-04-2005, 10:54 PM
Due to the Panoz Racing School having a Track Day on November 10, there will be no Test Day at this year's ARRC. We regret not being able to have this available to competitors as it is an opportunity for first-time visitors to get used to the track and dial their cars in for this event.

Please don't contact the Atlanta Region SCCA about this as it is completely out of our control.

As mentioned in another post, if you've got an extra $975 and have some kind of a desire to drive a school car rather than your own car for 80 minutes of track time they have spots open.

Racerboy03
10-04-2005, 11:32 PM
Bob,


Do you know if there are any test days at RA between now and the ARRC?

Thanks.

charrbq
10-04-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by bobpink@Oct 5 2005, 02:54 AM
Due to the Panoz Racing School having a Track Day on November 10, there will be no Test Day at this year's ARRC. We regret not being able to have this available to competitors as it is an opportunity for first-time visitors to get used to the track and dial their cars in for this event.

Please don't contact the Atlanta Region SCCA about this as it is completely out of our control.

As mentioned in another post, if you've got an extra $975 and have some kind of a desire to drive a school car rather than your own car for 80 minutes of track time they have spots open.

61792

Well, I guess that decided what I was going to do on Thursday! :unsure:

R2 Racing
10-04-2005, 11:47 PM
This is seriously very bad news for me. :(

I guess my option now is to show up for qualifying with a suspension I'm unsure of and an untested engine. Very unsettling, indeed. Will anything go right?

RSTPerformance
10-04-2005, 11:49 PM
hummmm...... hummmmm

Another strike against the event... 3-4 days of racing makes the travel well worth it, but 2 or 3 days is like any other event... No Test day might hurt this event... someone dropped the ball???

with no crew available to make the treck and my brother still can't get dam work off... I need to question if this trip is worth the haul from the Notheast by myself... especially considering the lack of funding and the higher gass costs... hummmmm...... hummmmmm

The ITB race really has tougher competition at Lime Rock at the NARRC runoffs... which I will deffinatly be attending provided the car makes it through the enduro next weekend at the Glenn so hummmmmm....

Raymond "hummmm" Blethen

bobpink
10-05-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Racerboy03@Oct 5 2005, 03:32 AM
Do you know if there are any test days at RA between now and the ARRC?

61795


I've honestly been pretty much out of the racing loop for a couple of years now and don't keep up with this stuff near as much as I used to, so I don't have an answer for you.

You might contact Road Atlanta to see if they would be any help in letting you know if any other people like Car Guys or something has the track rented before the ARRC.

chumpy36
10-05-2005, 08:47 AM
The schedule doesn't list SM as a participant in the Pro-it class. I hope this is a typo or it's really gonna screw up my plans. I co-drive with someone and one of us would do the arrc and the other the pro-it then we would split the enduro.

If we both can't get a sprint in, one of us is gonna feel slighted.

When you add this to the no test day, it makes coming to the event less than appealling. There are other events that might work out better.

I can't imagine why RA would not want to have the test day. At $200 a car they have to be making more than the couple of people that want to pay 975 to run around in the panoz cars. It's not even their school it's a lapping day.

This is nuts.

Jason

charrbq
10-05-2005, 11:54 AM
This same situation happened a few years ago. We went over expecting a day of testing only to find that there was a Panoz school scheduled, and we would be getting only a few hours of testing. It rained and the Panoz students went off all over the track. The collection of same extended well into the ARRC practice time. We were left with only one hour of group testing. Every class and type of car was let onto the course at once...open wheel, sports racer, IT, and thunder wagon. I lost count at 104 cars on the course at once...on a damp track!

If Panoz wants to schedule a school on what is normally our test day, he can...he owns the football and the field. I wouldn't even make a conjecture as to what kind of money/planning/politics it would require to reserve the date for us.

If he wants it, let him have it. Better to have none of it than a piece like the last time. Sadly, Atlanta Region takes the hit when prospective entrants feel they can't justify the expense and the effort for one less day.

We'll be there...test day or not. I believe it's jambalaya that day, or maybe gumbo. We have a reputation to maintain in the party and food department. ;)

bobpink
10-05-2005, 12:03 PM
This year was just kind of a mix up with the scheduling and there is no conspiracy or Road Atlanta/Panoz Racing School going out of their way to be difficult. The Atlanta Region and Road Atlanta are already working to see that this does not happen again. It is an unfortunate situation for both sides.

Hracer
10-05-2005, 12:36 PM
We were planning to run some of the test day, so this is not good news. However, it's hard to understand how a weekend that offers 2 sprint races plus a 3 hour enduro does not have enough track time to make it worth going to. With all the qualifying sessions, there is a potential of almost 6 hours of track time. We're planning on running all three races, and the only drawback to it all is the sheer amount of use time that the car will have to endure. Plus, there is a potential of about an hour and a half of track time available on Friday before Saturday’s ARRC. Still, I don’t deny loosing the test day is a big loss regardless.

dj10
10-05-2005, 01:03 PM
My questions are: When can you get into the track with your trailer to setup your spot? Can you get in Thursday just to setup so you are not rushing around on Fri.? Is there a Pro IT race Fri?
dj

RacerBowie
10-05-2005, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Racerboy03@Oct 4 2005, 11:32 PM
Bob,
Do you know if there are any test days at RA between now and the ARRC?

Thanks.

61795



To save everybody some time, including the people at Road Atlanta, I figured I would post what the nice lady told me when I called:

The track is booked Monday through Thursday, so the idea of doing a test day on a different day that week is right out.

We will still be there gunning for the top step of the ITA enduro podium!

Bowie
ITA Miata

bobpink
10-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by dj10@Oct 5 2005, 05:03 PM
My questions are: When can you get into the track with your trailer to setup your spot? Can you get in Thursday just to setup so you are not rushing around on Fri.? Is there a Pro IT race Fri?
dj

61835


Schedule is posted on the ARRC website.

Bowie, thanks for the follow-up about Road Atlanta and any other test days.

chumpy36
10-05-2005, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by bobpink@Oct 5 2005, 05:38 PM
Schedule is posted on the ARRC website.

Bowie, thanks for the follow-up about Road Atlanta and any other test days.

61838



I contacted the General manager about this and he said he would look into it. We'll see if anything happens. I really hope it does otherwise my first session in the car in 3 months is a qually for the pro-it!

Jason

RacerBowie
10-05-2005, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by chumpy36@Oct 5 2005, 01:42 PM
I contacted the General manager about this and he said he would look into it. We'll see if anything happens. I really hope it does otherwise my first session in the car in 3 months is a qually for the pro-it!

Jason

61839


3 months? Weaksauce! Try just over 5 months, a new front clip, and a co-driver who has never driven the car before, or driven Road Atlanta in over 2 years.

Should be fun! :smilie_pokal:

uncleben
10-05-2005, 02:54 PM
I just found out yesterday I'd be making the haul from Arkansas by myself as my fellow ITA buddy can't make it, now this news. I've never been to RA and I'm not real keen on my first time out being qualifying, let alone driving 18 hours for 1 less day of track time.

So in 2 days I&#39;ve gone from 100% committed, to 75%, to 50% <_<

R2 Racing
10-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Well, after some digging, it looks like I&#39;ve found some more potential track testing time fairly close to me before the ARRC. Ok, I feel a little bit better now since I (hopefully) don&#39;t have to show up to Atlanta shooting in the dark.

Greg Amy
10-05-2005, 03:31 PM
IT&#39;S A CONSPIRACY!!! It&#39;s a conspiracy to keep all the medals back in the Atlanta Region. I heard (actually, just made up) a rumor that it really TICKS OFF the Southeast boys when the Yankees show up and start kicken&#39; butt!

Well, you boys can try all ya want, but you&#39;ll see. Oh, yay, you&#39;ll see.

dj10
10-05-2005, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 5 2005, 07:31 PM
IT&#39;S A CONSPIRACY!!! It&#39;s a conspiracy to keep all the medals back in the Atlanta Region. I heard (actually, just made up) a rumor that it really TICKS OFF the Southeast boys when the Yankees show up and start kicken&#39; butt!

Well, you boys can try all ya want, but you&#39;ll see. Oh, yay, you&#39;ll see.

61849


HEHE!! Guy please get back on your MEDS.....QUICK.

Any chance of getting setup Thursday before 1800??

RSTPerformance
10-05-2005, 06:34 PM
Just want to clarify one thing- No harsh feeling from me to the Atlanta Region, I know what goes on behind the sceens and it is probably fustrating to see that some people might not show up... in reality most people probably still will.

For me it doesn&#39;t make much sence as I am a crew/driver of one towing 12+ hours. Sure I could con someone to go with me probably easily (after all everyone want to be on the winning team right :happy204: (that is a joke :D )). But in reality our cars require a bit more maintenance than most of the others at the ARRC (funding & PM go hand in hand), and it isn&#39;t the easiest thing working on a car with only people who don&#39;t know its caricteristics/history of problems. The likelyness of needing a few repairs between sessions will be required...

Also if I were to run the ProIT race to get my moneys worth out of the travel, my Friday would really be exaughsting... I would be driving most of the day and working on the car every moment that I am not driving to get it set up right.

Oh well, this year we have sorta "taken off" with the IT cars as my brother had a unique work experience that took his weekends and I concentrated on becoming a Steward going to a race just about every weekend... So next year we will attack the ITB class with full force and be back in action (watch out!!!)... oh and I will also somehow find time to do some stewarding...

Raymond "I know that I will be kicking myself that entire weekend :bash_1_: " Blethen

charrbq
10-06-2005, 01:43 PM
In the past, when there was a test day on Thursday, we&#39;ve been able to get in and set up on Wednesday. We have two teams coming from two different parts of the country, planning to be there on Wednesday just for this reason. Vacations are set as are motel reservations.
I fully understand about the cancellation of the practice being unavoidable. It will eliminate the third team that was coming, but so be it. I&#39;ve seen the ARRC schedule, and it is the same as it has always been written as that is all Atlanta region can truly guarantee.
My question is, does anyone know if we will be able to get into the track on Wednesday to set up, or will we have to wait until Thursday? Either way we have to cool our jets on Thursday, but it totally changes travel plans with ten and 14 hr tows.

Thanks.

Catch22
10-06-2005, 02:02 PM
As Alex mentioned, there is still plenty of track time available on Friday, so if you need to learn the track, run the Pro IT race. You&#39;ll end up spending about the same money as the test day and will get about 1.5 hours of seat time on Friday.

That won&#39;t help you much for ARRC sprint qualifying, but it still gets you awfully familiar with the track before the saturday races.

I simply can&#39;t understand people cancelling this trip due to the loss of the test day. This race weekend is the best anywhere and Road Atlanta is awesome. Not making the trip because of the test day makes no sense to me.
But I drive a 22 hour round trip to VIR at least once a year simply because VIR is friggin awesome, so maybe I&#39;m just a leetle crazy in the head.

Amy? You comin&#39;?

RR
10-06-2005, 03:33 PM
Its not worth it for people hauling 15hours ++ away. Your going to the ARRC because you condsider yourself a regional top finisher. We all have the dream of winning or being on the Podium for the ARRC. New tracks take years to master, a practice day gets your set-up right and a foundation of what and how to drive. No matter who is at falt here, myself and a few other are now NOT attending. Really too bad, and really with all the advance time, couldn&#39;t someone have caught this. This is our (IT) runoffs.......does say much for the people in charge.

Greg Amy
10-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 6 2005, 02:02 PM
Amy? You comin&#39;?

61965


My racing year has been downright painful. I&#39;ve managed to blow up two engines, see all of two checkered flags out of four attempts (with one of those in someone else&#39;s car and the other in my ITS Miata, which I managed to sell a good 10 minutes before finding out it&#39;s getting moved to ITA at a very attractive weight.) The bright spot of the year was the ITB win at the Summit 12-hour, then the damnable owner goes and rolls it into a rounder shape so we can&#39;t defend our &#39;04 VIR 13-hour win. My buddy blows up *his* Spec Miata engine (my ride for the 4-hour NHIS enduro, plus a few other events), then gets it repaired and totals the car at the Summit 12-hour (makes a great table in the shop for putting stuff on, though.)

Did I mention my year sucked?

I&#39;ve gotten very little track time, I have no more money (&#39;cause I went and bought a nice truck and enclosed trailer immediately prior to blowing up the new engine the last time), I&#39;m almost out of vacation, but I do have four good used and two new Hoosiers (yep, you got it: bought &#39;em right before the last blowed-up. They look really cool in the tire rack in the nice enclosed trailer.)

There&#39;s a 50% chance I may attend the NARRC in a few weeks, and a 0.5% chance I could hit Georgia; this, when I rarely show up given 50/50 odds. However, I was just tellin&#39; Matt last night that that there&#39;s good food to be eaten, beer to be drunk, and tall tales to be told, plus it would be really cool to top off a sucky year by driving 15+ hours down to Road Atlanta to blow up the brandy-new engine before getting stone s**t-faced and driving back home 15+ hours. So, I guess you never know...

Catch22
10-06-2005, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 6 2005, 08:28 PM
plus it would be really cool to top off a sucky year by driving 15+ hours down to Road Atlanta to blow up the brandy-new engine before getting stone s**t-faced and driving back home 15+ hours. So, I guess you never know...

61975



See, now THATS the racers spirit!!!

Hracer
10-06-2005, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by RR@Oct 6 2005, 07:33 PM
This is our (IT) runoffs.......does say much for the people in charge.

61969

Last I head Mid Ohio in general (and the Runoffs) don&#39;t offer test days either. Not that it would change anyone&#39;s mind. :)

Catch22
10-06-2005, 10:09 PM
This is our (IT) runoffs.......does say much for the people in charge.

I can just see the conversation now.

Road Atlanta - "We&#39;ll be using the track all week for our Panoz cars. There won&#39;t be a test day."
Atlanta Region - "But you MUST, simply MUST have a test day. I mean, people are coming from far away!!!"
RA - "Ummmm... Its our track. We&#39;ll do what we want."
AR - "Well then, we just won&#39;t have an ARRC this year then! I mean, you can&#39;t expect us to have an ARRC without a test day. People are coming from FAR AWAY!!!"
RA - "Ummmm. OK. Whatever."
AR - "Yep. that&#39;ll teach you track owner types to mess with us."

Sounds kind of silly doesn&#39;t it?

madrabbit15
10-06-2005, 11:37 PM
I think that it really sucks there is no test day. Now I have to determine which of 3 final drives I am going to use in 2 qualifying sessions. I think that someone had to have dropped the ball at some point in some form or fashion, I mean this is not like this is the first or one of the first years this event has taken place.

It IS pretty cool that people where coming from 15+ hours to come to this event, but if they dont want to come because there is no practice, on a track they rarely run, who can blame them.

Dont forget those of us who live halfway close use to use the laborday weekend to run at RA too, but we lost that as well.

I know that it is easy for many of us to sit back and complain about issues for which we do not even know the whole story on, but this is a club so I will exercise just a little bit of input.

With such a important event and knowing that we would not have a test day, would it not have made just a little bit of sense to have atleast one practice session before qualifying in the 3 days we have the track. I mean we have three races for the same classes. Sprints, Enduro, ProIT, I mean I understand the Sprint and the Enduro, but why do we need a third a race to congest the weekend. When did Pro IT become part of this weekend?

Anyway I guess my point is who can blame people for not coming when there is NO PRACTICE. We have the track for 3 whole days, and people in charge obviously knew this was becoming as issue, would it not have made some sense to revise the schedule just a tad to help the situation, I mean this is the ARRC not just a normal regional.



Derek Ketchie

R2 Racing
10-07-2005, 08:23 AM
Honestly, if I had never been to Road Atlanta before and was planning on coming to the ARRC, I would want to have that test day. Luckily my first time at the track was last year and I was able to run the test day. Now this year I feel comfortable enough with RA to not need the extra time to learn the track, but I can absolutely see where people are coming from since I was a RA n00b last year. So goes the way of the ARRC weekend - you have to be out there and up to speed Friday morning! Assuming the weather is dry, I think that we can all agree that the fastest times are set in that morning session.

This year I wanted that day purely to make sure my new engine is up to song and test some new suspension pieces since it didn&#39;t look like I would be able to do that before the ARRC. Luckily I got the car all ready to go last night so I can hit the MWHC event at Putnam Park this weekend so I can try this stuff out.

zracre
10-07-2005, 08:23 AM
other than the ITC guys, why not run the PRO-IT as practice...you could probably ask the region if ITC can run in the PRO-IT because no test day...same basic field as the enduro...

RSTPerformance
10-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Catch22-

Its seems silly to you cause you live so close... I posted my comments simply cause I know that the organizers read this site. I love the ARRC, I think it is the best Regional all year. The lack of the test day was the icing on the cake. The comments were supposed to be an honest and nice way of saying why I wasn&#39;t going to go this year. It was also ment to be a simple and honest comment that this is something that the region should worry about in the future as it is something that is important to the drivers who are travaling to attend the event (and based on other comments here, it looks like other drivers/teams feel the same way).

Now if they don&#39;t care about those making the journey cause the rummor of keeping them southern boys on the podium, well then they wont make sure this doesn&#39;t happen again!!! :rolleyes: (yes that was a joke).

Catch22 why don&#39;t you come to the NARRC runoffs in a couple weeks??? IMO and based on experience the NARRC Runoffs are a much harder race to win.

Raymond "does anyone outside the Atlanta area think it is silly that we travalers are fustrated that thier is no test day" Blethen

PS: At Mid Ohio for the National Runoffs the entire weekend before the event started on Monday were test days put on by the track for the compeditors (YES I said weekend days were test days).

Catch22
10-07-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Oct 7 2005, 06:50 PM
Catch22-

Its seems silly to you cause you live so close...


No Raymond, it seems silly to me because there is NOTHING the region can do about it.

1 - The region doesn&#39;t run the test days. Road Atlanta does.
2 - If Road Atlanta doesn&#39;t want to run a test day, what are the choices the region has???

Well, I suppose they could cancel the ARRC.
Or, they can do what they are doing and just not have a test day.

Here&#39;s a question for you Raymond. Were you going to run the ProIT before you found out there would be no test day? Did you run the ProIT last year?
Seems to me, if you weren&#39;t originally going to run the Pro, all you have to do is substitute that for the test day and you&#39;re still looking at the same amount of seat time.


IMO the only people who really get hurt by this are people who recently crashed and rebuilt their cars and people who have never seen the track. And this is really only going to effect them in qualifying.
If you run the ProIT and an ARRC sprint, you will get a LOAD of seat time on Friday. Nearly as much as you would have gotten running the sprint and the test day.

Remember, Atlanta Region can do nothing about this but try to make sure it doesn&#39;t happen again. BUT, if Road Atlanta decides to do the same thing next year, the results will be the same.

PS - I never planned to attend the NARRC as its well outside my budget, but if I had I wouldn&#39;t let the cancellation of a test day change my plans. I&#39;m like Mr. Amy, about the only thing that stops me is lack of funds (and sometimes that doesn&#39;t even stop me).

RSTPerformance
10-07-2005, 05:07 PM
Catch22-

Ok, I see we are getting off on the wrong foot in this discussion...

No, I don&#39;t run the PRO IT race, last year that and the test day and the enduro would have been to much. For us the perfect schedule/weekend (3 or 4 days) is how we did last years event. Test day, Sprint race, Enduro. Plenty of seat time, not stressful with plenty of time to make changes between sessions.

I don&#39;t disagree that if all you want is seat time then running the PRO race will make up for it. We are not soley sold on seat time. We are going to the race 1) to have fun (lots of great people down thier in the south :happy204: ) and 2) to WIN. Last year we qualified 1st and 2nd well ahead of the rest of the ITB field, but that didn&#39;t come because the cars are simply fast. We learned the track as drivers more and more every session, and we made adjustments to the car between every session. We need that entire time between sessions to accomplish this. We don&#39;t have free time throughout the day to run extra sessions to make up for lost track time to get our value. We didn&#39;t finish the race at the ARRC last year because the cars had mechanical failures (Stephen, bad wire on the fuel pump, while I broke a hub). Nevermind normal car setup stuff, if we had issues like this they would never be able to be fixed between the cramped sessions on Friday, thus running the ProIT race doesn&#39;t make sence for us. YES some people can handle this with their monsterouse tractor trailers and huge paid crews, but we don&#39;t have that, and as mentioned before we use a lot of used parts that results in more mechanical issues than a lot of "top dogs" fighting for the win.

As for the test day, I 100% agree that the region can not do anything about it this year, I would NEVER hold any grudges or be upset in anyway with any of the organizers. I would hope that they will take steps this winter/spring to ensure that thier is a test day on Thursday next year... Maybe the Region wants to rent the track and operate the test day??? I have no idea, I am sure they might have worker issues which would make them hesitant to adding it as part of the schedule.

At anyrate, I agree it would be silly for them to "discuss" with the track about making changes for this years ARRC, but it would be smart for them to "discuss" this with the track for future events. Many people have come to love the ARRC and see it as a benchmark for other large races across the country. In the future years it looks like thier is a push from members in other regions to have a championship as well wich may or may not impact the "unofficial national championship" status that the ARRC has recieved.

Raymond

eho
10-07-2005, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Oct 7 2005, 06:50 PM
PS: At Mid Ohio for the National Runoffs the entire weekend before the event started on Monday were test days put on by the track for the compeditors (YES I said weekend days were test days).

For those Runoffs competitors that didn&#39;t run the regional the weekend before that, many were lined up at the gate Sun. evening. There were test days the whole week before. Apparently, many of those days cost $1k+!

Ed.

lateapex911
10-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Not specific about this situation, but in general, I think we have seen a certain disdain for the SCCA club as of late for the past year or two from many tracks.

At Lime Rock, we saw a ...get this....roughly 80% rental increase....more than any other club, I am told. the numbers to rent the track arre in the 40K range. And when the region attempted to help remove certain line items by supplying personell, the bill wasn&#39;t reduced.

At NHIS, they are nice enough, and generally tolerant, but it is clear that the NASCAR dates take precedence and supply the track with the bulk of it&#39;s yearly profit.

I think we fall into the weird middle ground.......we actually race, and hit each other, so the track has todeall with the mess. Club events are cheaper and much less hassle for the track, and full on races can pad the bank acccount.

I have no doubt that Road Atlanta woudn&#39;t give a rats ass about the regions desire to have test day, LOL

Catch22
10-08-2005, 10:41 AM
Please note immediately that this is all my personal opinion, but I have served on the Atl Region Board and seen things from the inside out.

First, Atlanta Region has a pretty nice relationship with Road Atlanta. We supply workers for many of their non-SCCA events (The Mitty, Petit, AMA, etc) and in return we get a nice track rental agreement and some good dates.
Keep in mind that RA is an extremely busy track thats booked pretty much every weekend of every year. Just getting 4 or 5 weekends a year there is a major score for the club.

But in this case, its not even an Atlanta Region activity we&#39;re talking about as RA staffs and runs the test days, and they&#39;ve simply decided not to do so this time. Its pretty much that simple.
The region can beg and plead to always have test days in the future, but thats really all they can do. In the end its the call of Track Management.

Given what happened at Barber last year, and the result being that one of the greatest tracks in the country will now likely never see another SCCA race, the loss of a test day is child&#39;s piddle.

Finally, we&#39;ve already lost one weekend this year in this division due to a lack of workers and it looks like there is going to be another one. I suspect that this is going to be a much bigger problem in the near future, and test days may become a real luxury. If we&#39;re having problems getting them for weekends, Thursdays and Fridays are going to be REAL tough, even if they are getting paid.
NASA *paid* workers (at least thats what I was told) for a Road Atlanta event in July and had a bare minimum of people out there. Actually so few that SCCA wouldn&#39;t have been able to drop the green.
This is not good news.

bobpink
10-08-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Catch22@Oct 8 2005, 02:41 PM
But in this case, its not even an Atlanta Region activity we&#39;re talking about as RA staffs and runs the test days, and they&#39;ve simply decided not to do so this time. Its pretty much that simple.
The region can beg and plead to always have test days in the future, but thats really all they can do. In the end its the call of Track Management.

62095


Just so everyone is aware, not having the Test Day simply came down to some miscommunication and everyone involved would have liked to have the day available for the racers coming to the ARRC. Yes, the date has been on the calendar for a year, but s**t still happens. As stated elsewhere in this post, the Atlanta Region, Road Atlanta and the Panoz Racing School are already working to see that this doesn&#39;t happen again. Would like to see some of the "shoes" who are passing on the ARRC this year return.

OTLimit
10-08-2005, 06:30 PM
It pretty much comes down to what you really want to do. I know that you could tell Chris that there wasn&#39;t going to be qualifying, just a random draw, and he would still drive 10 hours to get there.

But maybe he&#39;s just not very bright and has inhaled to much carbon monoxide over the years along with contact with waste oil, pump gas, race gas, brake cleaner, etc. :bash_1_:

madrabbit15
10-08-2005, 09:28 PM
[quote] IMO and based on experience the NARRC Runoffs are a much harder race to win.


I do know know you very well, but respectfully I have to say that this statement is extremly hard for you to justify when you have yet to win this race. Yes I know you guys were on the pole, but reliability is part of winning and again you guys have yet to win this race. If and when you do I will be happily to buy you a six pack, but until that day comes, continually saying that this race has less competition and is easier to win than others is really an impossible statement for you to make seeing how you have never won it.

Again I do not know you and I am not trying to offend anyone. Sorry for the highjack.


Derek Ketchie

pfcs
10-08-2005, 09:43 PM
personally, I was hoping you would win it and that the question of why Cris Albin chose not to pursue building his coupe would be resolved peacefully and permanently in the tech shed.

gran racing
10-08-2005, 11:58 PM
Fine, it might not be the region&#39;s fault but I do have to say that this really, really sucks! I&#39;m sorry, but someone did drop the ball on this one. Why would this impact a person&#39;s decision on coming? For this event it isn&#39;t about total seat time. IF I still decide on coming down, qualifying will be the first time seeing the track. Nice. If anyone says that they can qualify just as well without seeing the track first vs. a person having some track time is full of it. Like Ray said, one big reason many of us come to the event is because we feel that we have a shot of winning. After all, this is what people self proclaim as the national IT championships. Of course we all want to have fun, but isn&#39;t this a bit of a different weekend then normal?

Run the Pro IT race - sounds fine and dandy but that sure doesn&#39;t help out with qualifying. And yes, in a race that is so competitive qualifying does matter. Needless to say I am frustrated that I (and many other racers in similar situations) planned much of my season around this. Having a test day is a HUGE help for those of us who have never driven the track.

Serious question here. Can someone that has never seen the track (of which I have heard is hard to learn even by a very, very good driver) realistically have a good shot to win at that ARRC? Not this BS that anyone could win given the right situations. I&#39;m thinking this will make a fairly significant difference in the race for me.

Oh, by the way...did I say this fugn sucks?!!

Greg Amy
10-09-2005, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by gran racing@Oct 8 2005, 11:58 PM
Serious question here. Can someone that has never seen the track...realistically have a good shot to win at that ARRC?
62124Not reasonably.

I raced the Runoffs there 1989-1992. I don&#39;t recall ever doing a test day there, and I never did another event during the year there (I lived in north Texas at the time). The Runoffs format was always a full week of two practice sessions, two qualifying sessions, then a race session, with lots of time to walk around and watch other sessions. Further, I had the opportunity to walk the track a couple of times with a very experienced Road Atlanta driver, so I picked up some tips and tricks along the way. I remember that first year: I was TOTALLY intimidated by the track, the event, the competitors, the spectators. I recall having a BEE-LAST at the event, but I never really came to terms with Road Atlanta.

In subsequent years I came better prepared mentally, and eventually felt I had learned the track well. When I attended the ARRC in 2003 I felt pretty comfortable there, despite the physical changes since 1992. However, in helping others learn the track that weekend I could tell that if I did not have that prior experience it would have been difficult.

To say you would not attend the ARRC because you do not have the experience to win is a bit specious. How are you planning on getting that experience; think one test day is going to give that to you? Despite no test day, if you go this year you will get a bit of useful experience (especially to become accustomed to the event, paddock layout, local customs, etc). Yeah, you might not have seen the track before, but you&#39;ll be that much better off next year. If you DON&#39;T go this year, you&#39;re still at square one in &#39;06 (it&#39;s a bit like the next-door kid that decided he didn&#39;t want to go to college because it would take four years. Of course, where&#39;s he gonna be in four years if he doesn&#39;t start now?) Yup, if you go this year without a test day your chances of winning the race are diminished, but I am quite confident that if you don&#39;t go to the event you will definitely not win.

There&#39;s a lot more to winning an event like this than "knowing the track", and a test day (and simulator time) isn&#39;t going to magically hand that to you. I say suck it up, go to the event, live it, learn it, and prep for the future. - GA

tom_sprecher
10-09-2005, 11:09 AM
Ed,

I have an old copy od the SEDiv schedule showing the ARRC slated for Nov. 4, 5 & 6th. Just curious as to why was race rescheduled for the following week? Also, I know someone who has been talking to Panoz to try and get a half day test session. Have you heard anything about this?

Harvey
10-09-2005, 12:35 PM
Derek:

I could not agree more. It is amazing to me how much talk goes on without ANYTHING to back it up.








[quote] IMO and based on experience the NARRC Runoffs are a much harder race to win.
I do know know you very well, but respectfully I have to say that this statement is extremly hard for you to justify when you have yet to win this race. Yes I know you guys were on the pole, but reliability is part of winning and again you guys have yet to win this race. If and when you do I will be happily to buy you a six pack, but until that day comes, continually saying that this race has less competition and is easier to win than others is really an impossible statement for you to make seeing how you have never won it.

Again I do not know you and I am not trying to offend anyone. Sorry for the highjack.
Derek Ketchie

62118

Joe Moser
10-09-2005, 03:48 PM
It IS dissapointing that we don&#39;t have a test day, but it is hardly a reason to not show up. Be honest, if you thought you had a realistic chance in winning the ARRC with a test day, have your chances really changed that much without one?

You DO still get 2 qualifying sessions! Use your first as a practice session.

Borrow a Road Atlanta tape from somebody and watch it every day until the ARRC, you will have no excuse if you don&#39;t "know" the track by then. Walk the track Thursday night. If you need one, email me, I&#39;ll send you one!

In qualifying, pick a "fast" local guy and follow... good drivers can follow anybody, even without great knowledge of the track they are driving.

Remember, many of us have little to no experience at RA, but if you are really good enough to win, you are good enough to overcome this set-back. The only time I ever won the ARRC was in 1999, 1st time at the track, with NO practice day! :) I&#39;ve had several practice days and ARRCs since then, but no W&#39;s!

- Joe Moser

Catch22
10-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Well, Road Atlanta is tough.
Very tough actually. And intimidating. It took me a couple of years to come to grips with it.
I seriously doubt anyone would go from "no chance" to "could win this thing" as a result of a test day. If you&#39;ve never been there, unless you are a serious shoe with awesome equipment the test day wasn&#39;t going to catapult you onto the podium.

The ARRC isn&#39;t much different from the runoffs in that its rarely won by someone who is there for the first time. Do it this year to learn, aim to win it next year.

Hell, its my home track and I was overwhelmed at my first ARRC. Even though I&#39;d been racing there for 2 years and doing DEs and Solo Is there for 8 years, that first ARRC was... Nuts.
The pace and aggression of the competition, for the entire 45 minutes, is likely something that you&#39;ve not seen in regular regional racing. The only way to pop that cherry is to jump in there and pop it.
Yes, the lack of the test day will hurt you in qualifying, but c&#39;mon... It really isn&#39;t going to make THAT much difference.

In short, see Greg A&#39;s post.

Knestis
10-09-2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 6 2005, 08:28 PM
...The bright spot of the year was the ITB win at the Summit 12-hour, then the damnable owner goes and rolls it into a rounder shape so we can&#39;t defend our &#39;04 VIR 13-hour win. ... Did I mention my year sucked?

:huh:

Sheesh, G. It&#39;s not like I did it on purpose.

K

Greg Amy
10-09-2005, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Knestis@Oct 9 2005, 07:10 PM
Sheesh, G. It&#39;s not like I did it on purpose.

62164


...and I didn&#39;t blow up two engines on purpose, and the guy didn&#39;t intentionally wreck the Spec Miata, and so forth and so on ;) No offense intended, that&#39;s why racing sucks. We&#39;re all head cases for continuing to do it. Well, more specifically, PAYING to continue to do it. Voluntarily. On purpose. - GA

KevSC1
10-09-2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by zracre@Oct 7 2005, 12:23 PM
why not run the PRO-IT as practice



Interesting option... anything we need to know before registering?

OTLimit
10-09-2005, 09:06 PM
I recall that one year we drove down for EVERY race at Road Atlanta, even though it is a long way out of our division, cost us a ton of vacation days, $$, and sleep (on the weekends we couldn&#39;t use vacation). And then they changed the Pro-IT rules to give points to each starter in each Pro-IT race, and made it harder for out-of-division people to win the championship (believe me, it wasn&#39;t intentional, just a nice surprise at the end of the year).

But it paid off.

Comparing the ARRC to any divisional championship is kind of like the argument I had a couple of weeks ago at the Golden Retriever National Specialty show with someone from the northeast. She kept insisting that it must be harder to finish championships on dogs in the NE because there were so many more dogs entered at every show. The problem is that she doesn&#39;t think about the fact that there still may be a percentage of dogs that are deserving of the win, and there will always be a larger percentage that are there just because they can be.

There is no doubt that the ARRC is tough to win, and doesn&#39;t depend just on talent. Lady luck is alive and well at RA, and plays favorites. A small piece of debris in a tire will take you out just as easily as mechanical failure or crash.

zracre
10-10-2005, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by KevSC1@Oct 9 2005, 08:50 PM
Interesting option... anything we need to know before registering?

62171


when registraton comes online just check the pro it race box and you can run it....it is sceduled for friday and will give you great race experience at the track...so you will be fresh for sat sprints!!

and...I know roebling is not road atlanta, but I just won the sediv ita championship never being there before and no test day AND no practice (only a 10 minute session on sunday morning to bed brakes and such)...just 2 qualifying sessions...ended up 3rd on the grid and worked my ass off...

chumpy36
10-10-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by zracre@Oct 10 2005, 04:05 AM
when registraton comes online just check the pro it race box and you can run it....it is sceduled for friday and will give you great race experience at the track...so you will be fresh for sat sprints!!



62177



I would just ask that everyone running the pro-it as practice to please be courteous to us drivers running the race. It&#39;s gonna be tough to go out and qualify cold for some of us and to have someone out scrubbing tires or not watching their mirrors might make the job even harder.

Thanks much,

Jason

bobpink
10-10-2005, 01:18 PM
Never mind. See the new post.

dj10
10-11-2005, 09:30 AM
I got a email last night from Proit, it said "Practice for Proit will be on Thursday". Does anyone have confirmation of this?
dj

zracre
10-11-2005, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by dj10@Oct 11 2005, 09:30 AM
I got a email last night from Proit, it said "Practice for Proit will be on Thursday". Does anyone have confirmation of this?
dj

62272


Road Atlanta restored the test day for us lowly SCCA people....so back to standard test day thurs qualify/PRO-IT.....

Catch22
10-11-2005, 11:28 AM
The schedule still shows ProIT qualifying on Friday morning with the race Friday afternoon.

dj10
10-11-2005, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by zracre@Oct 11 2005, 02:27 PM
Road Atlanta restored the test day for us lowly SCCA people....so back to standard test day thurs qualify/PRO-IT.....

62281


No it hasn&#39;t! I just go off the Phone with Road Atlanta and the ARRC website is wrong and the emails I received from proit are false. The website shows Thursday the 11th is a practice day. 1st of all, Thursday is the 10th not the 11th and the lady on the phone said the event starts on Fri., the 11th.

RSTPerformance
10-11-2005, 06:51 PM
A reply to some of the replies to me, sorry i was away for the weekend-

I will stand by my judgement that I think that the NARRC Runoffs put up a good challenge to the ARRC as far as a good competition, and an overall good race... Top dogs and those that beat the top dogs from the ARRC generally are sceen at the NARRC Runoffs... However I will agree that the the ARRC does bring more people from more regions together for a "National Championship" which IMO is very very cool!!! I might just suggest though that some of you come to the NARRC as well if you want a good challenge!!!

Please remember that I think that the ARRC is a wonderful event. I think it is the BEST regional event run all year that I have been to in my 20+ years. (I have been to the ARRC 3 times, once as a spectator, once as crew for my brother, and once as a driver). I wouldn&#39;t be excited for the event all year if I didn&#39;t think that it was the best event.

I do think though that the track is favorable to certain cars. My little experience shows that with one test day I was able to drive my car 1 second a lap faster than the competition at the ARRC. I have NEVER been that much faster at any other track except Pocono. Thus I think that at Road Atlanta you can have "the car" for the track. Our cars for example have a tough time keeping up with people such as Derek Lugar (last years ITB ARRC champ) at tracks here in the Northeast. Thus for me I think that the NARRC Runoffs are a tougher race to win in ITB. The ITB competition here in the Northeast is legit (IMO) and their are several drivers who will have the oppertunity to challenge for the podium. Also as a side note my brother and I have NEVER won the NARRC runoffs, nor have we ever qualified on Pole.

Please remember that I DO think that the ARRC does bring a few of the best contenders to play, for example the Canadians... Derek Lugar (last years ITB champ) is probably one of the best ITB compeditors that I have ever run against. Colin as well. Derek is the only person in the Northeast to beat Scott Carlson head to head in a race here in the Northeast in the last 5 years. -congrats to him!!!

I guess I just wish that something could be done to get more competition from other areas of the contry to this event. Congrats to whomever will win this years ARRC!!!

Raymond "Now we need to see if it is still feasable (funding) to go to the ARRC now that they have a test day" Blethen

PS: On a side note, the comment on Chris Albin and the Audi build... I am not sure why he decided not to build the car for ITB as I think that it is a relatively inexpensive car to build and is very easily built into a fast car. Chris is a big VW person and I think that he feels that the A3 can be faster. Judging by last year, I think that he could be right. That was his first year with the car and he proved to be very very fast. In reguards to the Audi&#39;s though, we are not the only people to have sucess in the cars around the country, others also have. As far as the tech shed comment, that leads me to believe that some are hesitant to think that we are legit??? If so please bring it up publicly or privately whatever works (we can defend ourselves ;) ). nobody has to post a protest or a bond if they want to take a look at something. We are very open about things, and would welcome any observations or inspections. We are not perfect, and while we attempt to keep things legit maybe we are missing something??? I am close to 100% certain that the cars are completely legal. As being a steward in training and a long time compeditor I think that is is important for everyone to be legal, no exceptions.