Anyone use driving SIMS to practice?

[Bildon]

Anyone here use racing SIMS like EA Sports F1 Challenge or the GTR FIA GT simulations?

I've been installing and modifying these games over the past year to include most of the tracks in North America. I'm quite impressed with the track and vehicle realism. I was able to learn some tracks very well that I've not been to or that I have not been to in a long time. I even have the 13 mile long Nurburgring Nordschleife 90% memorized.

The Latest SIM out is called rFactor and it was designed to be completely modifiable. So even though now there is only LimeRock and Barber Motorsports Park for it, eventually you'll see nearly every track worldwide and many types of cars available in this SIM. Best of all, the add-ons are all FREE!

Do any of you want to join a group where we can race online together?

Also, if anyone needs help with getting setup let me know as I've got a good idea of what is needed for hardware and can point you to where the sofware is available.

http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/gtrank_banners/18920.gif (http://gtr.gplrank.info/viewLaptimesbyUserId?user_id=18920)

[lateapex911]

This is something I am interested in. Not so much the racng online part, but the ability to learn the basics of a track, the timing and such of the corners.

I think that it can be helpful, but obviously it is still lacking in the G-loading area.

For me, once I learn something, I have a very hard time UNlearning it, so I have no interest if the tracks are inaccurate in any significant way. For example, I learned Road Atlanta on SGT, but when I got there it had a turn (turn 3) that wasn't on my version. Needless to say, it was ugly!

I would love to get set up with a software that would let me drive a low HP car with no torque on North American tracks!

[JamesB]

Without a force feedback wheel its just not practice. I guess I could invest in one, I know that GT$ and Forza have great programming similar to driving condition but there is a lot more you can get away with even in the sim then you could in real life.

[zracre]

I have a cobra seat set up in a atand alone area for GT4...awesome game great tracks good for weekdays not racing to keep fresh...it helps with concentration too...i should have mentioned that in the other subject...

[bldn10]

"So even though now there is only LimeRock and Barber Motorsports Park for it, eventually you'll see nearly every track worldwide and many types of cars available in this SIM."

The AI is so realistic that if you go off track at Barber you get a bill in the mail for damage to the facility. :bash_1_:

[gran racing]

There was an interesting article a few months ago in Popular Science that discusssed sims and effect when the person goes out onto the track. I thought it was very interesting and it sold me on Forza and the steering wheel. I am inpressed with it and the realism and feedback provided, but as said it can only do so much. Everytime I hear people using a sim to learn a track, Jake G's Road Atlanta story enters my mind and I can't help but crack up.

[m glassburner]

So...has anything changed at barber motorsport$ park that would allow us (scca) to race there and afford it??? I sure would like to race there at least once B)

[C. Ludwig]

Originally posted by gran racing@Oct 3 2005, 11:47 AM
There was an interesting article a few months ago in Popular Science that discusssed sims and effect when the person goes out onto the track. I thought it was very interesting and it sold me on Forza and the steering wheel. I am inpressed with it and the realism and feedback provided, but as said it can only do so much. Everytime I hear people using a sim to learn a track, Jake G's Road Atlanta story enters my mind and I can't help but crack up.

61686


What wheel are you using with Forza? I have both Forza and GT4. Have the force feedback wheel for the PS2 also. I have to say that I'm really not a big fan of the wheel but would be interested to try one with Forza.

[Bildon]

Originally posted by C. Ludwig@Oct 3 2005, 01:28 PM
What wheel are you using with Forza? I have both Forza and GT4. Have the force feedback wheel for the PS2 also. I have to say that I'm really not a big fan of the wheel but would be interested to try one with Forza.

61692


Logitech Momo Force is a new wheel that is 100% digital. No potentiometers to wear out or get dirty. It's all optical I believe. It's known in the SIM world as the Momo 'Black' so as not to get it confused with the Momo Ferrari wheels. It's USB will that work with your non-PC game machines? Photos (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00006HYLN/ref=dp_primary-product-display_0/102-9023482-4428122?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics)

GTR the FIA GT SIM
http://www.10tacle.com/gtr-game/

New game, great graphics. Need a newer 128MB or better video card to get the best resolution and high frame rates.. You can add many many USA tracks and numerous additional cars. $34 from Amazon.

F1 Championship Season 99-02
http://www.easportsf1.com/index.asp?lc=eng&t=pc&s=4&ss=1

Older game but has a HUGE number of tracks and cars available. Almost every SCCA track that has ever had a Pro race of any kind on it is available. Can be found in bargain bins for $5 !!
There is a European Touring car mod that allows you to run 2L BMWs, Alfas, Seats (VW), Volvos, and Hondas....the effect is pretty close to running an ITS race! With some front wheel drive cars and only 2L engines, it's a prety decent approximation of what a very fast IT car might do. http://www.rsr-forum.net/

ETCC Screenshot (http://www.simracingworld.com/images/screens/etcc2003/ingame01.jpg)

In Car (http://www.simracingworld.com/images/screens/etcc2003/ingame14.jpg)

List of available tracks for both games: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=200442
:eclipsee_steering:

[RSTPerformance]

YOu said that they had Lime Rock??? what are the graphics like??? I saw a video game once before with Lime Rock, but it wasn't even worth playing IMO...


Also was wondering if they Have NHIS Road Course anywahere???

As for learning the track, I think that the Nascar games with Watkins Glenn (short track) are a good example of how a game can teach you wich way the track turns. I always thought that they games did a great job teaching you the line and what not, but I am not so convinced anymore that they teach you anything other than an overview of what to expect...

Raymond "Wish I had time to play video games, but I can't remember the last time I did??? hummm, dam real car, girls and the bar" Blethen

[Bildon]

>> You said that they had Lime Rock??? what are the graphics like???

Yup there are versions of LimeRock for every SIM I've ever tried, both with and w/o chicane. Graphics vary on the base game used. Latest version in rFactor is pretty good although nobody has done a 'photo real' version yet.
LRP Screen (http://www.m4driving.it/pps_images/7/20050905-Image1lime.jpg)

>>but I am not so convinced anymore that they teach you anything other than an overview of what to expect...

I wasn't convinced either since prior to last year I didn't play games. But these are not really games. In fact many people wont find them 'fun' becuase they are way too hard. They are too real.

GTR for example built the 'physics' engine for the various cars by taking REAL MoTeC data from the teams in the FIA GT and using it to generate the physics parameters that control the cars. In that game and others, racers were consulted to make sure that the experience of driving was as real as possible.

Speaking of MoTeC...in GTR, you can actually dump the data from your PC racing sessions into the MoTeC Interpreter software to analyse your laps..this is the real and same MoTeC software that is used in MoTeC data aquisition systems...a great learning tool. The only thing that isn't imported is the shock data I think.

GTR Movie (http://www.gtr-game.com/download/gtr_promo1_small.wmv)

Another note: If you've read any of the books by Ross Bentley you know how much he pushes the concept of 'visualization' or seeing what you plan to acheive and practcing it before you actually do it. I used to do this a lot as a ski racer and when I used to run track. It really helps. I find that running these SIMS before I go racing early season or after a long layoff from racing really gets those parts of my brain working again. The eye/foot/hand coordination, the thinking ahead, and even things like working through traffic are all able to be practiced quite effectively.

[Bill Miller]

I'd absolutely be interested in a PC-based solution, as long as there is a wheel/pedal set. Like zracre, I have a race seat set up w/ my PS2 for using w/ GT4. It's better than the couch, and my son loves it!

[dickita15]

this all sound great, fun and useful. I have no knowledge of these games as the last one i owned was atari nightdriver. so if i wanted to get started what platform shoul i get. what game. what do i need for a good wheel and pedal set. what should i expect to pay.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 4 2005, 09:37 AM
this all sound great, fun and useful. I have no knowledge of these games as the last one i owned was atari nightdriver. so if i wanted to get started what platform shoul i get. what game. what do i need for a good wheel and pedal set. what should i expect to pay.

61736


I am in too. I want to race against people I know, on-line, on tracks I recognize, with cool cars...

:)

AB

[Bildon]

Guys one of the hardest parts of SIM racing is wading through the immense amount of garbage info to find the good info you need.... Let's see if I can help...

FIA GTR Minimum spec:
Windows ME/2000/XP
1,2 GHz CPU (AMD/Intel), 384 MB RAM
DirectX 8.1 compatible graphics card with 32 MB
4xfach CD-ROM, 1 GB free hard disk space

A link to PC Spec discussion about FIA GTR SIM
http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107

F1C (F1 Champioship 99-02) is older and needs less hardware:
Operating System - Windows 98/2000/ME/XP*
Processor - 450MHz Intel Pentium II
Memory - 128MB RAM
Hard Drive - 1 GB
CD - DVD - 4 Speed
Graphics (PCI/AGP) - 16MB
Required 3D Acceleration - Direct 3D*
DirectX - Version 8.1
Multiplayer - ISDN, Broadband, LAN - 2-8 players


For a wheel/pedal set the defacto std is the Logitech MOMO series. See mention in post above for the newest type. Otherwise give EBay a try: Search on Logitech MOMO
Here is mine: Momo Force (http://cgi.ebay.com/Logitech-MOMO-Racing-Force-Wheel-and-Pedal-Set-NEW_W0QQitemZ5814994370QQcategoryZ170QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

For hardware advice dig around in forums like this:
http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?f=754

Here a good link on tuning your PC for best game performance
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=211319

Once you get good... get REALLY good...
http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1260

to be continued..........

Note: there are nice shifter paddles on the back of the wheel that you can't really see here.
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/22056131/Images/963282-0403__2.jpg

[dickita15]

cool bill
keep it coming
is the paddle shifter with 2 pedals the norm.
(see I told you i was starting from scratch)

[Bildon]

Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 4 2005, 06:21 PM
cool bill
keep it coming
is the paddle shifter with 2 pedals the norm.
(see I told you i was starting from scratch)

61784


Dunno about 'norm' but it's the hot ticket to fast times. :eclipsee_steering:
Once you get used to it you'll really wish your IT car had them.
Or you'll go out an buy a Ferrari 360 Modena. B)

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by dickita15@Oct 4 2005, 06:21 PM
cool bill
keep it coming
is the paddle shifter with 2 pedals the norm.
(see I told you i was starting from scratch)

61784


Dick,

I think it is. The one I have for my PS2 has them (it's the older one, w/o the shift lever, and less turns L2L). If the Logitech one will work w/ a PS2, through the USB connection, I'm in for that. I quit playing GT4 when it corrupted my memory card, 65% through the game. :(

[C. Ludwig]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Oct 5 2005, 08:43 AM
Dick,

I quit playing GT4 when it corrupted my memory card, 65% through the game. :(

61812


Don't feel bad. At least you can blame the hardware. I accidently hit a button combination that erased my progress through Forza a couple months ago. I had finished the arcade mode and was about 65% of the way through the sim mode as well. My quick ninja reflexs hit the two button combo that wiped it all out in the blink of an eye. :blink:

[gran racing]

What wheel are you using with Forza? I have both Forza and GT4. Have the force feedback wheel for the PS2 also. I have to say that I'm really not a big fan of the wheel but would be interested to try one with Forza.

I'll have to get back to you on that; can't remember off the top of my head and I'm on the left cost right now. The wheel I purchased was made specifically for Forza. I believe it is a force feedback but that doesn't mean it will react the same way as the one you currently have by them. Popular Science and the drivers who tested the game/wheel really backed the steering wheel.

[C. Ludwig]

Originally posted by gran racing@Oct 9 2005, 12:07 AM
I'll have to get back to you on that; can't remember off the top of my head and I'm on the left cost right now. The wheel I purchased was made specifically for Forza. I believe it is a force feedback but that doesn't mean it will react the same way as the one you currently have by them. Popular Science and the drivers who tested the game/wheel really backed the steering wheel.

62125


I'll do a search. I wasn't aware there was a wheel made for Forza. I haven't used a wheel with the X-Box but have used the force feedback wheel with GT4 and though all my friends seem to rave on it I'm not a fan. But I'm biased against GT4 anyway.

BTW, thanks Bill!!! I just spent the equivalent of a new Hoosier on a graphics card so I can play GTR. :023:

[benracin]

Man, I brought this subject up like a year or two ago and nobody wanted to play. So I'll try it again! If anyone wants to play forza sometime look me up. My name is Bendretti on xbox live. Sounds like fun! I've always wanted to race against people who have actually done it before!

SCGT (Sports Car GT) is an old game by today's standards, but I was really impressed that someone took the time to put Blackhawk Farms on it. made for great practice before I went there for my first race. In Forza I've taken my friends around Road America and shown them where I padock, how to take turns, it's just keeps getting more and more realistic.

The hard part on these games is finding something as slow as your IT car. :D

[Bildon]

>>SCGT (Sports Car GT) is an old game by today's standards, but I was really impressed that someone took the time to put Blackhawk Farms on it. made for great practice before I went there for my first race.

Yah SCGT is crap from a graphics standpoint but unmatched as far as cars and tracks. Somebody in Germany made an ITS Bildon Corrado before we ever built the real car!
They made it from the renderings I had on our website of what the car would look like.
Also, where else can you race Nelson Ledges bisides in SCGT? :D

>> it just keeps getting more and more realistic.

Yup... here's a few screenshots...

Spa in the fog (http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=303406&d=1123273211)

Porsche somewhere in Skandinavia (http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5810/024bo.jpg)

McLaren F1 at Watkins Glen (http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/7771/328oi.jpg)

In Car View (http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=291958&d=1119424836)

>> The hard part on these games is finding something as slow as your IT car. :D

There are slower cars now in GTR, F1C and rFactor. Available as add-on vehicles.
Here's a great resource for files. They have almost everything.

http://www.m4driving.it/files/1,1.html

[benracin]

Are those shots from rFactor or GTR?

[C. Ludwig]

Originally posted by Bildon@Oct 10 2005, 05:23 PM

http://www.m4driving.it/files/1,1.html

62234



Everything I try to download from this site is unavailable. Just get some kind of error message in, what is it, Italian?

[Bildon]

Originally posted by benracin@Oct 10 2005, 05:35 PM
Are those shots from rFactor or GTR?

62235

GTR

rFactor doesn't have any good cars or tracks yet. But people are building stuff for it now.

>> what is it, Italian?

Sì non sapete utilizzare gli attrezzi di lingua di Google? :cavallo:
Most of the GTR and F1C links have worked for me. There is a lot there so sometimes external links go down.

[Bildon]

For you old guys :P
GT Legends (http://www.blimeygames.com/screens.php)

Website (http://www.gt-legends.com/home_en.php)

Based on GTR this game has Spec Miatas! OK they're Elans. :D

Actually it has quite a few 'Prod' cars in it. 914, Mini, MGA, MGB, TR4, Mustang, 911, Austin Healy...plus a bunch od Sports Prototypes for back in the day.

[Guest]

Well, I'm waiting on my copy of GTR to show up. Give me a while to practice up then I'll be ready for online action. The demo has me hooked already.

[C. Ludwig]

^^^^ Oooppps. That was me. ^^^^^^^

[benracin]

I've got to find that demo. Did you have to wait in line to download it?

[C. Ludwig]

Originally posted by benracin@Oct 11 2005, 09:33 AM
I've got to find that demo. Did you have to wait in line to download it?

62273


Yes but I only waited a minute or two. I did it at 3am so that might make a difference.

[benracin]

I tried rFactor last night and I think my computer is finally getting to old to play these games. It's a 1.3 amd with 512 ram but I think the video card is starting to hurt. Seemed nice. I wasn't getting any engine sound though. Lots of other noises including some screaming transmission noise, but no engine sounds. Poor computer. I'll see if I can get my hands on GTR. Is it a little more old computer friendly?

Man it's crazy, this computer could handle games till about 2 years ago.

[Bildon]

>> Is it a little more old computer friendly?

Nope. You probably want another 256 or 500 MB of RAM to get your PC up to 768 or 1GB total RAM.
The tracks have so much graphical detail that to load one track, 20+ cars and the game logic into memory probably leaves your 500MB box with very little left over.

Also its the VIDEO CARDS guys that you need to change, not the PC. A 1.x or 2.x Ghz proc is OK. But the video processor need to be able to render many MILLIONS of polygons per sec.

If you have no AGP slot and only PCI then you really only have 3 choices for a "performance" PCI card, & they're not very good. Here they are...good, better, best
NVidea FX5200
NVidea FX5500
NVidea FX5700/FX5700LE

Check the specs & make sure the card you get uses 128-bit memory. 64-bit cards are 30-40% slower

For you guys with AGP video card slots the options are too many to discuss here...ask the nearest 12 year old kid :D

A quick check suggest the NVidea 6800 series and ATI 9700, 9800 series are very cable of running GTR well.

newegg.com has good prices.

Make sure your PC is in good shape. If you have a lot of crap running in the background or apps that are always spinningup the hard drive caching and indexing stuff your gmaes WILL SUFFER.

[benracin]

to bad I can't download a crack for a new video card off the internet. This is where that fine line between spending money on real race car or virtual race car tends to blur. I'm pretty sure the wife thinks both are pointless. Without computer racing over the winter I'd go insane!!!

Anyone else care to share their Forza or Xbox name? It would be fun, I promise!

[ddewhurst]

***I'm pretty sure the wife thinks both are pointless. Without computer racing over the winter I'd go insane!!!***

Something sounds wrong within these two sentences.... Pretty new bride & without computer racing I'd go insane. My racen friend you got problems...... :bash_1_:

Next thing your going to tell us that all you have to do in the winter months is to go ice fishing & race your computer. :o

[DENNISC020]

if you really want a "nice" wheel try http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/ - sooo much better than the black momo.

[Bildon]

Originally posted by DENNISC020@Oct 13 2005, 04:20 PM
if you really want a "nice" wheel try http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/ - sooo much better than the black momo.

62579

Oh here we go! :happy204: How fast do you want to go ? $$$$$$$ :119:

http://www.ecci6000.com/6000_productportal.htm

http://www.frex.com/gp

http://www.interactiveracing.com/index.asp

And the winner is.....
http://www.virtual-gt.com/options_display_2_proj.html

http://www.virtual-gt.com/im/VGT_75in_proj_display_72.jpg

[Bildon]

Another good GTR site
http://www.gtrresource.com

And check out the new car :eclipsee_steering:

[DENNISC020]

IF WE JUST HAD YOUR MONEY !!!!

[Bildon]

Originally posted by DENNISC020@Oct 13 2005, 09:01 PM
IF WE JUST HAD YOUR MONEY !!!!

62604


Uhh Dennis? The mods are all free. And I certainly would not waste money on any of that crap I posted above. I do have 2 real race cars to feed after all. :blink:

[Bildon]

If anybody got rFactor... Mid Ohio and Bryar (yes the old one) are now available for it.

The fake cars that come with rFactor are like IT cars. Little 2L cars.
Also there is now a patch for rFactor that fixes many of the little problesm it had.
http://www.rfactor.net/index.php?page=1040whatsnew

[Bildon]

Here's a partial list of currently available tracks for rFactor...more are coming every week.

http://www.team-coca.com/index.php?s=2776&lc=69

[Bildon]

Did you ever get the feeling you were talking to yourself? :D

Check this out
http://www.bobearlracing.com Yes 'THE' Bob Earl.

Video: http://www.bobearlracing.com/Skip%20super%20short%20mpg1.htm

http://www.bobearlracing.com/Pics/TV-play-final%20copy.gif

[RSTPerformance]

Bill did you see the new scion with the flip up hood with the projector... the car is the racing sim... interesting... although just a prototype... cool

Raymond

[Bildon]

Nope Raymond...didnt see that.

Here's a list of most of the tracks for GTR
http://www.bildon.com/pub/GTRTracks.jpg

[JimLill]

For WGI practice several of us HPDE people have used NASCAR 2003 and have been happy. They are mods to add the boot and other non-NASCAR type cars

[gran racing]

I bought Forza and the steering wheel made specifically for the game to practice Road Atlanta before going there for my first time. One thing is to drive a car somewhat similar to what you race. Although some of the very fast cars were fun to play with, I stuck with some of the slower cars. I also used a “low profile” or however you want to term it. My thoughts after driving the track in person…I do think playing the game helped. I knew where to aim the car in certain turns and got to know the general layout of the track. Unfortunately it is impossible to add the fear of crashing in video games, so it certainly was much different. The other thing is that it is very difficult to get a feel for how hilly a track is from a game. But overall I do think it helped me.

[lateapex911]

OK, Bill, where'd you get that list? Whats new in rFactor?

Forza has Road Atlanta, but what about other tracks.

Honestly, I don't care about having my sponsors "skin" on my car. I just want an IT car on tracks I will drive....and I don't care about whether it's X-Box or PC or PlayStation.

so, any new suggestions?.

(Someone should make a "kit" for the guy who just wants to drive and doens't want to do days of research and hacking, LOL)

[ITA 69 CREX]

Hey Boys, I don't ever post here but thought I would way in on this one ! I race PS2 every Wed. night with 3 of my friends and we are currently playing TOCA Race Driver 3 and using the Logitech GT Force wheel. I can only say that this game is awsome and the AI is incredible. There are not enough games that will have you running in 3rd place with 2 turns to go and find the leaders off in the gravel trap ! Talk about realistic !!
This game is great and I would suggest it to anyone interested in trying the gaming solution ! The game costs 45.00 and is worth every penny, but is missing some of our tracks :( Hoping to get my motor together soon to come out and play, Shane.

[AntonioGG]

I don't know how close TOCA3 is to TOCA2 but after hearing people raving about TOCA2 I went out and bought an XBOX, game, and wheel/pedal set. I returned everything (except the game which I was stuck with) the same day.

Right now GTR and GT Legends as well as the EA Sports F1 games are the ones to have if you want to add US tracks to them.

Several of us SM guys were getting together at least once a week and racing online. It's easy to setup...you don't have to load any tracks if you don't want to but some are really nice (Lime Rock).

I recommend GTR just because of how popular it is and it's relatively cheap ($30 at Amazon). Just make sure you get a version that comes with the online gaming code. In other words, don't buy used.