National championship or ARRC championship

[bg43wex]

I spent last week attending the Run Off's at Mid Ohio. I worked for my region, helped crew for a friend and was a spectator.

This was the first time I had been to this event and thought it was cool. from an SCCA members point of view this is the Super Bowl, they really put on a great show from every aspect.

Long test and qualifying sessions, open meetings with the National CRB, parties every night a manufacturers midway and more stewards and volunteers than you can shake a stick at. let's not forget cheap $300.00 entry.

Even the small classes had close to 30 cars. One thing I did notice is the age of many production cars, some were competing in their 30th championship. While I was attending a CRB meeting I listened while many drivers who have these older cars complained about their inability to locate parts. I was told they build them so tight they don’t last, which caused me think why do we allow rules creep or make new rules just so the same cars can have all the fun?

How can the SCCA call this event their "National championship" when they exclude roughly 50% ( probably more) of the regular competitors in their club?

The Regional events that you compete in deliver the lions share of all revenue to your club, while most Nationals hover around even or some loose money.

Next year SM will be included in Topeka for the 06 Run Off’s. As we all know this class has exploded on to the scene in the last few years and helped increase entry levels at regional races. Participation levels in IT have also grown continually for the last few years, not at the level of SM but still a respectable level.

My question to all of you, if you could have the opportunity to head west and compete against the very best in the country would you?

I know the ARRC is supposed to be the equal but I have been there and it is not. Nothing against that event, I just think the distance from the west coast make it an easy decision for them to skip the event, so is it really the American Road Racing Championship?

Without getting into how we could make it happen let's hear what you think?

Brian Mushnick
Club Racing Chairman
NER
[email protected]

[racer14itc]

Brian,

Don't forget to add the "rest of the questions":

part b )

"How many of you would be interested in racing only ONCE (maybe twice) at your favorite/local/home track each year and travel to 4 or 5 other tracks during the season to collect enough national points to qualify for the Runoffs"?

For those that are curious about national racing, look at your division's schedule for the year for the national races. That's when/where you'd have to travel and race to collect points. It's harder to make money on a national race vs. a regional race because your "customers" typically have to come from further away than a local regional. And there are fewer folks willing to commit to a season of national points gathering, when it's so easy to drive a short distance to the same track for several regionals a year (WDCR is a good example of this). In some large divisions (like SEDIV) the tracks are scattered from southern VA to Miami, FL! :blink:

part c)

"Then once you've qualified, how many of you would be interested in towing to Topeka, spending at least a week (or more) of vacation time to participate?"


If you live in the NE or SE, this is going to be FOUR days of travel, plus the week long festivities. It's a COMMITMENT, folks. Oh and I budgeted $2000 this year for travel expenses ($3/gal @ 8mpg adds up!), hotel room, food, souvenirs, etc. That doesn't include my RACECAR expenses (tires, race gas, etc.).

So when you see those "old" cars racing at the Runoffs, remember that irrespective of the car itself, just getting there is a commitment during the year that is larger than a lot of people give credit for.

When you look at the ARRC this year, look at how many out of division IT cars are left once you subtract the SEDIV (local) racers. And it's a race that requires no "qualifying" to enter, simply pay your money and show up.

Just some thoughts on national championship racing vs. regional racing. I've done both, been there and got the t-shirts from both.

MC

[RSTPerformance]

Marc-

I would say both events are very different, however I would argue that winning an IT race at the ARRC is probably harder than winning most of the races at the National Runoffs. Been to both a got the t-shirst also (oh wait I didn't they cost as much as a tank of gas ;) ) But then again their are a lot of other classes besides the IT classes at the ARRc, we just forget about them :unsure:

Anyway I replied to the ARRC vs' National Runoofs question in the other post... the biggest difference is the media coverage, if the ARRC had the media coverage I think it would bring it up another notch to be able to compete against the National Runoffs.

Actually that and we would need to get a few more open wheel races to attend(oops did I say that??? but it is true, it adds to the event somehow... still trying to figure it out)

Raymond

[lateapex911]

My response in the general section:

I haven't seen this years participation numbers, but as it its the last at Mid Ohio, they are sure to be up.

That said, some National classes have historically and consistantly put on terrible races. 17 car fields, 10 second grid spreads, and not even to the really slow guy. It is hard for me to respect a "National Chamionship" when all you have to do is run a few half distance races and show up. Some guys go home bragging about a "Top Ten" Runoffs finish. Out of 17 cars and half didn't finish! LOL..

If you ask me, it does seem like the Regional Racers spend the most and get the least.

And if I were King, I would shorten the event. It's too long and Speed can only tolerate so much, LOL...

I would make all the "National" regional classes eligible, and the top subscribed 21 go to the show. Details could be worked out, a cut off date created. IT would need to have certain cars with documentation issues excluded, but over all it would be a huge boost to the overall program.

I think the racing would be dramatically improved, (full fields of guys that actually WORKED to get there, LOL) which means TV would be SO much better, and therefor marketing and recruiting would improve.

I have always wondered why the SCCA doesn't market IT, as it such a great category for the wanna be racer to get introduced to and hooked on.

They've missed the boat on this for years. What 20 something gives a rats ass about a Sprite? (OK, name 2 then... )


On the ease of winning the IT races at ther ARRCs vs theRunoffs...I don't think the ARRCs are easeier or harder...but I think a top 5 in Ohio is easier in a few classes....

[16v]

I dunno Jake. I didn't watch *every* race, but for the many that I did stand at the wall for I'd have to say they were the best crash 'em up, fender rubbing, walk the other guy off into the grass stuff I've seen since Cheap Date :unsure: :happy204:

But seriously, the Prod races were sensational from a viewers perspective. I think that when you see the broadcasts you'll all agree.

[ulfelder]

My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[Greg Amy]

My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Ditto. - GA

[gsbaker]

So when's the broadcast?

[JIgou]

Sun., Nov. 13 1 p.m. H Production
Sun., Nov. 13 2 p.m. C Sports Racing
Sun., Nov. 20 1 p.m. Showroom Stock B
Sun., Nov. 20 2 p.m. Sports 2000
Sat., Nov. 26 1 p.m. GT-Lite
Sat., Nov. 26 2 p.m. Touring 1
Sun., Nov. 27 1 p.m. G Production
Sun., Nov. 27 2 p.m. Formula Atlantic
Sat., Dec. 3 1 p.m. Formula 500
Sat., Dec. 3 2 p.m. Touring 2
Sun., Dec. 4 1 p.m. Formula Mazda
Sun., Dec. 4 2 p.m. American Sedan
Sat., Dec. 10 1 p.m. Formula Continental
Sat., Dec. 10 2 p.m. D Sports Racing
Sun., Dec. 11 1 p.m. E Production
Sun., Dec. 11 2 p.m. GT-1
Sat., Dec. 17 1 p.m. Showroom Stock C
Sat., Dec. 17 2 p.m. Formula Vee
Sun., Dec. 18 1 p.m. F Production
Sun., Dec. 18 2 p.m. GT-3
Sat., Dec. 24 1 p.m. Formula Ford
Sat., Dec. 24 2 p.m. Spec Racer Ford
Sun., Jan. 1 1 p.m. GT-2

Jarrod

[gsbaker]

:happy204:

[jmark]

Doug is right. The EP race was wild.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0019.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0024.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0026.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0039.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0046.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/Runoffs%2005%20EP/DSC_0067-1.jpg

[DMaynard]

Originally posted by ulfelder@Sep 29 2005, 07:03 AM
My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

61418



You get our vote too!! If IT were at the Runoffs, we would definately want to go and compete. :023:

[zracre]

[quote]
My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

You could count me in too!!! But can you imagine how expensive IT would become??? People are bitching about 50k BMW's...My integra is expensive enough and to run it on a national level the costs would go through the roof!!! I can bet that SM engine builders see going national as a good thing...maybe moving the ARRC to mid ohio,or just leave it at RA and give us more coverage (tv) and make a participation minimum of 4 (or insert your number here) races to qualify...just a thought...the ARRC is a well run, fun to watch event...much like the runoffs.

[racer14itc]

[quote]
My answer to Brian's original question: You bet. If IT were at the Runoffs, I would make it a point to go there and compete.

You could count me in too!!! But can you imagine how expensive IT would become??? People are bitching about 50k BMW's...My integra is expensive enough and to run it on a national level the costs would go through the roof!!! I can bet that SM engine builders see going national as a good thing...maybe moving the ARRC to mid ohio,or just leave it at RA and give us more coverage (tv) and make a participation minimum of 4 (or insert your number here) races to qualify...just a thought...the ARRC is a well run, fun to watch event...much like the runoffs.

61475


Evan,

I'm curious if you'd be as excited about going to the Runoffs if you knew in order to qualify for the Runoffs you'd have to tow all over the SEDIV JUST to make the Runoffs? Because *if* ITA was a national class, you can bet there'd be people coming out of the woodwork to try finish in the top 10 in the division and qualify for a Runoffs race in ITA. So you'd have to tow to Homestead, Sebring, Kershaw, Road Atlanta, Roebling, Daytona, Road Atlanta, Roebling and then VIR. Add up those miles from your house, the entry fees for (10) races, the tires, expenses, etc. Just to try and qualify.

That is EXACTLY what the Spec Miata guys are going to find out real fast next season. The idea of running nationals and going to the Runoffs is indeed glamorous but the reality of it will sink in VERY quickly to a lot of drivers. Guys like Buras, Pombo, Evans, etc., are willing to commit to all 10 races to qualify.

Oh yeah, and then you'd get to tow to Topeka for a week long race.

Just trying to put it into perspective for someone from the SEDIV.

The commitment to running the ARRC each year isn't the same thing. It's a good race to be sure, but it's not the same as the Runoffs.

MC

[zracre]

id do it....if I took out some regionals this year, I could have done that scedule...4 races in your division...sebring daytona road atlanta roebling i did this year (roebling next week)...some twice. an extra few hours to vir? same as road atlanta with an extra stop or 2...and im giving participation in 4 events to be sure its at least an event with experience...double sarrc races can count too!!

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by zracre@Sep 29 2005, 09:18 PM
id do it....if I took out some regionals this year, I could have done that scedule...4 races in your division...sebring daytona road atlanta roebling i did this year (roebling next week)...some twice. an extra few hours to vir? same as road atlanta with an extra stop or 2...and im giving participation in 4 events to be sure its at least an event with experience...double sarrc races can count too!!

61483


Evan, I tip my mug to you! :birra: You're obviously made of the right stuff! :023:

Good luck at the ARRC this year. I may even come down to watch my old friends battle it out in ITC.

MC

[dickita15]

while I think a real national championship race for IT would be great fun and would think it would be cool to run nationals and go to the runnoffs I know there is no way I could do it in IT were in national. it would not take 4 races it would take 10 podium finishes out of 10 to get an invite.
with the money time and talent i have available i would have to run a less popular class to get invited.
how many of you would be in the top 6 (or even 10) in your division.

[gsbaker]

I don't know Mark, you made it look pretty easy. :eclipsee_steering: :D

[gran racing]

In theory it sounds good. My biggest concern would be how it would impact IT as a whole in terms of the financial investment to be a front running car. Would people that were spending $$$$ for a National car then move to ITX? Maybe; actually probably. The t.v. coverage would be really cool and help sponsorship opportunities (more money being thrown in to make things more costly).

Would I attend? Maybe once. Then again I say that I'll only go to the ARRC once because of the tow. We'll see what happens next year.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by gran racing@Sep 29 2005, 07:39 PM
In theory it sounds good. My biggest concern would be how it would impact IT as a whole in terms of the financial investment to be a front running car. Would people that were spending $$$$ for a National car then move to ITX? Maybe; actually probably. The t.v. coverage would be really cool and help sponsorship opportunities (more money being thrown in to make things more costly).

Would I attend? Maybe once. Then again I say that I'll only go to the ARRC once because of the tow. We'll see what happens next year.

61496


I think you would be surprised to know what each of the top 5 cars in each class cost at the ARRC, especially in ITS and ITA.

I think there are more $40K+ cars out there than you would imagine. Maybe not in initial build dollars, but if you want track records and checkered flags, you can NEVER be satisfied.

AB

[lateapex911]

Some follow up points-

IT is really an amateur version of Speed Word Challenge in many ways...it makes sense that the "everyman version" be on SCCAs biggest TV show.

IT is already expensive...Serras car sold form more than most equivilent class (FP?) Prod cars, and the stories of ITS are well known. Winning (at the national level) wouldn't go up a tremendous percentage, but 10th place probably would.

As it stands now finishing in the top ten is a real feat fro me, I doubt I would see much track time as a driver at the Runoffs. But it should still be done.

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by zracre@Sep 29 2005, 03:23 PM
But can you imagine how expensive IT would become???

61475


Huh, if you had any idea what the top guys in ITS and ITA have in their cars, you wouldn't be sayin' stuff like that. Trust me: there's no way that winning ITS and ITA can cost much more than it is (travel expenses aside...) - GA

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by 16v@Sep 29 2005, 12:40 AM
I dunno Jake. I didn't watch *every* race, but for the many that I did stand at the wall for I'd have to say they were the best crash 'em up, fender rubbing, walk the other guy off into the grass stuff I've seen since Cheap Date :unsure: :happy204:

But seriously, the Prod races were sensational from a viewers perspective. I think that when you see the broadcasts you'll all agree.

61415


Doug, I hear you...my first sentence pointed out that this year was likely to be better than years past.

I made the statemnt after reviewing the grid sheets for the last few years. Many classes had less cars than we see in ITA at a Regional, and the time spread was incredible. 20% over 17 cars is huge for a "National Championship".

But this year was different. I imagine that Kansas will bring some new blood, and lose some old blood, but I fear it will go down before it comes back up.

[zracre]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Sep 29 2005, 09:10 PM
Huh, if you had any idea what the top guys in ITS and ITA have in their cars, you wouldn't be sayin' stuff like that. Trust me: there's no way that winning ITS and ITA can cost much more than it is (travel expenses aside...) - GA

61511

I dont have alot in my car...no where near 20 grand and im usually a front runner...i will be going to the ARRC with some new stuff and hope for a good race finish...i just said that as history repeats itself with a class going national...just look at AS a few years ago....the demand for stuff goes high priority and so does the price...watch SM engine prices....you will see what i mean...

[Greg Amy]

Been there, done that, brother, got the Runoffs t-shirt and medal to prove it. Trust me, the money's already being spent profusely...

[dazzlesa]

just passing some kudos to the prep shops. i was fortunate enough to buy anthony's integra. i cannot express how quick a car he has made. these top prep shops put major effort into these cars. i see brets car is for sale for 18k and nick's rx-7 is for sale for 23k. i had considered other cars but in the end i felt that there was no way that i had the knowledge or time to make a "total package" . they think and try everything.
rick ITA 06

[datadude]

Do any of you have any idea how MUCH it costs for TV? The amount should be staggering. So I don't think it will fly.

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by dazzlesa@Sep 29 2005, 10:09 PM
just passing some kudos to the prep shops. i was fortunate enough to buy anthony's integra. i cannot express how quick a car he has made. these top prep shops put major effort into these cars. i see brets car is for sale for 18k and nick's rx-7 is for sale for 23k. i had considered other cars but in the end i felt that there was no way that i had the knowledge or time to make a "total package" . they think and try everything.
rick ITA 06

61523


Jeeze you guys won't have any of the fast guys to chase. I sold mine, Brets won't last, the Serria mobiles, and Nick. Poor Ray will have to carry the torch, now he will really have to start springing for tires.

[gran racing]

I think you would be surprised to know what each of the top 5 cars in each class cost at the ARRC, especially in ITS and ITA.

Andy, my real concern would be if this impacted the majority of cars being run nationally, not just the cars that run in the ARRC. And yes, I realize there are some big bucks being spent in IT. I do think SCCA needs to do its best to keep some of the racing costs down to entice new people to the sport. There should be a progression in racing and costs associated. That is kinda what I see from ITB > ITA > ITS > and so on. If not, it opens up a nice niche for another racing organization. I'm not worried about the small percentage of people that spend significant amounts of money but when that becomes the norm just to be competitive locally, that's a different story.

[bg43wex]

Originally posted by racer14itc@Sep 29 2005, 08:47 PM
Evan,

I'm curious if you'd be as excited about going to the Runoffs if you knew in order to qualify for the Runoffs you'd have to tow all over the SEDIV JUST to make the Runoffs? Because *if* ITA was a national class, you can bet there'd be people coming out of the woodwork to try finish in the top 10 in the division and qualify for a Runoffs race in ITA. So you'd have to tow to Homestead, Sebring, Kershaw, Road Atlanta, Roebling, Daytona, Road Atlanta, Roebling and then VIR. Add up those miles from your house, the entry fees for (10) races, the tires, expenses, etc. Just to try and qualify.

That is EXACTLY what the Spec Miata guys are going to find out real fast next season. The idea of running nationals and going to the Runoffs is indeed glamorous but the reality of it will sink in VERY quickly to a lot of drivers. Guys like Buras, Pombo, Evans, etc., are willing to commit to all 10 races to qualify.

Oh yeah, and then you'd get to tow to Topeka for a week long race.

Just trying to put it into perspective for someone from the SEDIV.

The commitment to running the ARRC each year isn't the same thing. It's a good race to be sure, but it's not the same as the Runoffs.

MC

61482

Mark,
next you'll tell me there really aren't any gutter snypes and the red mist is imaginary.

You stated been there done that, why so sour? Your realism has a negative sound.

If someone else wanted to try why begrudge them?

Who said IT would have to be a national class? I said change the GCR.

And what, 50k ITA cars towed in 200k haulers aren't allready around? I've been to the ARRC's they show for this one..

How's the tow to Atlanta from your house?

It's over 1075k from my house Atlanta. 950 to Indy and only 400 extra to Topeka.

One note while I was at a CRB meeting last week some competitors were asking if more than the top 10 from a division could be allowed if a class had low turn out. Mike Sauce thought this would be worth looking into.

I think it's great to have full fields but this tells me some classes are done and should be looked at hard just as GT4 & 5 have been.

IT would bang out every class entered with out trying hard.

brian

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by bg43wex@Sep 30 2005, 01:38 PM
...some competitors were asking if more than the top 10 from a division could be allowed if a class had low turn out. Mike Sauce thought this would be worth looking into.
61574


Of COURSE the rules can be changed for participation; it's been done before! All you young whipper-snappers probably never knew that in "the old days" only the top THREE from each division were guaranteed a spot at the Runoffs. Yep, top-three got automatic invitations, and the rest of the field was filled up on a rotating basis after the deadline, starting with the divisions that had the largest National turnout during the year. Talk about cut-throat competition at the Divisional level, especially up here in New England! - GA

[racer14itc]

Hi Brian,

Not trying to be sour, I'm just trying to be realistic. I spent 5 years in ITC and got a good feel for the IT racers. They are a good group of racers who tend to race on a very limited budget. The ones I raced with who are still in ITC love it, and aren't really interested in the financial commitment of national racing. It's VERY easy for some one to come on a web board and say "Sure, I'd race at the Runoffs" without thinking it through. There's more to it than just one "national championship race". I think Greg Amy would agree with me on this one.

A good example of this in practice is the ARRC. It certainly has the potential to spotlight the very best IT drivers in the country and could even be called the "national championship" of IT racing. But the attendance at the ARRC outside of the SEDIV participants isn't as large as it could be. At the SCCA Runoffs, the SEDIV or CENDIV, or even NEDIV don't make up the majority of participants. At the ARRC I would say the SEDIV racers make up the majority. Why don't more IT racers from the NEDIV, CENDIV, MWDIV, SWDIV, etc. come to the ARRC? I can only assume that it's because the expense involved, both in terms of time and money.

Although it would be nice if IT was represented at the Runoffs, the politics involved pretty much guarantee that it won't happen anytime soon. Especially now that there are new national classes such as SM, T3, and perhaps BP and DP (former World Challenge GT and TC type cars). So there are at least 27 classes vying for 24 Runoffs slots. Less of an obstacle but still a significant one is that I also think that the logistics/rules makeup of IT make it unattractive for a Runoffs type event. The teardown/compliance verification of cars up to 37 years old could be a logistical nightmare. Yes, it's done at the ARRC now but how many people TRULY believe or trust it? (Be honest...how easy is it to verify OEM camshaft profiles on late 60's or early 70's cars? Valve jobs? Cylinder heads?).

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. If anything, the moving of the Runoffs to Topeka is a golden opportunity for someone to try and organize an IT national championship event at Mid-Ohio. Keep track of the NARRC, MARRS, SARRC, CenDiv, PCRRC,etc., champions in each class and invite them to a "true" national championship event a la the Runoffs. If you're waiting for the SCCA national office to do it for you, it isn't going to happen. In fact, the ARRC at Road Atlanta as we know it now evolved from the IT Festival that was held at Heartland Park in the late 80's early 90's. (Ironic isn't it, given that the Runoffs are going there now?).

You can hate me for saying these this, but the fact remains that if IT competitors won't go to the ARRC in Atlanta (which is the de facto IT national championship event) even though there are no qualification requirements, why would I assume that these same competitors would go through an even MORE difficult and expensive process to qualify for the Runoffs?

MC

[stevel]

Originally posted by racer14itc@Sep 30 2005, 05:58 PM


I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. If anything, the moving of the Runoffs to Topeka is a golden opportunity for someone to try and organize an IT national championship event at Mid-Ohio. Keep track of the NARRC, MARRS, SARRC, CenDiv, PCRRC,etc., champions in each class and invite them to a "true" national championship event a la the Runoffs. If you're waiting for the SCCA national office to do it for you, it isn't going to happen. In fact, the ARRC at Road Atlanta as we know it now evolved from the IT Festival that was held at Heartland Park in the late 80's early 90's. (Ironic isn't it, given that the Runoffs are going there now?).



that's a great idea. Move the ARRC to Mid-Ohio. Is that a possibility at all?

steve

[Greg Amy]

...if IT competitors won't go to the ARRC in Atlanta...why would I assume that these same competitors would go...for the Runoffs?A lot of people view this event as nothing more just another (highly-marketed) regional event, something that will gain them nothing more than the event they attended last weekend. Hell, how many arguments have we had on this board with folks taking umbrage at the "national champion" title for ARRC winners? If you don't respect the event as something more than another Regional, why should others?

However, other folks view this event as the one major opportunity in the year to meet and compete against the best and most highly-motived regional racers in the country. If someone's willing to tow 1000+ miles to go run at this event, you can be sure there's some motivation there. I guess it's all in your point of view.

Having this event in one of the four corners of the country does nothing to assist in garnering entries from around the country. However, as we've said many times before here, if you want to host your own event in Seattle, Oregon, California, Mid-Ohio, Texas, Arizona, blah, blah, blah, you should get off your duff and do it.


Move the ARRC to Mid-Ohio. Is that a possibility at all?Technically, the "ARRC" is a regional event run by the Atlanta Region, just as the NARRC is a NER event. It is highly unlikely that they will run an event at Mid-Ohio, any more than NER would move the NARRC to Topeka... - GA

[reeceracing]

Originally posted by racer14itc@Sep 30 2005, 05:58 PM
Hi Brian,

Not trying to be sour, I'm just trying to be realistic. I spent 5 years in ITC and got a good feel for the IT racers. They are a good group of racers who tend to race on a very limited budget. The ones I raced with who are still in ITC love it, and aren't really interested in the financial commitment of national racing. It's VERY easy for some one to come on a web board and say "Sure, I'd race at the Runoffs" without thinking it through. There's more to it than just one "national championship race". I think Greg Amy would agree with me on this one.

A good example of this in practice is the ARRC. It certainly has the potential to spotlight the very best IT drivers in the country and could even be called the "national championship" of IT racing. But the attendance at the ARRC outside of the SEDIV participants isn't as large as it could be. At the SCCA Runoffs, the SEDIV or CENDIV, or even NEDIV don't make up the majority of participants. At the ARRC I would say the SEDIV racers make up the majority. Why don't more IT racers from the NEDIV, CENDIV, MWDIV, SWDIV, etc. come to the ARRC? I can only assume that it's because the expense involved, both in terms of time and money.

Although it would be nice if IT was represented at the Runoffs, the politics involved pretty much guarantee that it won't happen anytime soon. Especially now that there are new national classes such as SM, T3, and perhaps BP and DP (former World Challenge GT and TC type cars). So there are at least 27 classes vying for 24 Runoffs slots. Less of an obstacle but still a significant one is that I also think that the logistics/rules makeup of IT make it unattractive for a Runoffs type event. The teardown/compliance verification of cars up to 37 years old could be a logistical nightmare. Yes, it's done at the ARRC now but how many people TRULY believe or trust it? (Be honest...how easy is it to verify OEM camshaft profiles on late 60's or early 70's cars? Valve jobs? Cylinder heads?).

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. If anything, the moving of the Runoffs to Topeka is a golden opportunity for someone to try and organize an IT national championship event at Mid-Ohio. Keep track of the NARRC, MARRS, SARRC, CenDiv, PCRRC,etc., champions in each class and invite them to a "true" national championship event a la the Runoffs. If you're waiting for the SCCA national office to do it for you, it isn't going to happen. In fact, the ARRC at Road Atlanta as we know it now evolved from the IT Festival that was held at Heartland Park in the late 80's early 90's. (Ironic isn't it, given that the Runoffs are going there now?).

You can hate me for saying these this, but the fact remains that if IT competitors won't go to the ARRC in Atlanta (which is the de facto IT national championship event) even though there are no qualification requirements, why would I assume that these same competitors would go through an even MORE difficult and expensive process to qualify for the Runoffs?

MC

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[Colin Harmer]

I've been following this thread, as I just got back from my first run-offs (not driving) and have been to 6 ARRCs (driving). And I've had a few thoughts...

All of this is my opinion only, so with a grain of salt... here we go.

1. Geography probably doesn't make a huge difference. You may change the players by moving the event, but I'm guessing that the grid count for Atlanta vs. Mid Ohio vs. Topeka probably wouldn't change much.

2. Regardless of who goes, it's always been a great event from a competitor point of view, as you are running against some great cars and drivers. Since we're running for plastic trophies here, the racing might as well be good.

3. The idea of the "nationals for IT" is a good one. It may not be the most valid comment as it's not really recognized that way. There are certainly some very good drivers who are among the best of their class, but I can't help feeling that there's some really strong talent on the West coast that we never see...

4. Do we really want a 8 day event? The ARRC has a good pace, with loads of track time, so from a scheduling point of view, I wouldn't want to change it. The run offs (or run-ONS as I've heard them referred to) it a major time commitment as well as financial one.

5. TV would be fantastic...Anyone got 500K to get the time bought? 'nuff said...

6. Can we all just agree that some people will spend way more money on racing then others...

I know that so and so has a $7million ITD fiesta with a 53 foot hauler and Prevost coach, 2 engineers, a portable wind tunnel and a crew of 12 mechanics... :119:

Economics and racing are two words that do not belong on the same page...

Time and money will always fill the space they are provided. If for some reason you can't field a competitive car on your budget, then either accept that fact or find a class that you can afford to race at the top of, it's that simple. With racing there's no such thing as socialized racing, brute strength and big $$ always seem to win, it's the way it goes.

As racers we'd all like to have unlimited budget and travel the globe racing carbon fibre exotica, but that's really a lifestyle that most of us won't be able to sustain. So we find a class we like, race it when we can, and have fun while we're doing it. Fun...right...that's why....we do it because it's fun!

I am now putting away my soap box...

Cheers,

[Andy Bettencourt]

I don't know. I really think that an OFFICAL IT championship event would be popular. There is NO WAY that the ARRC brings in the best from the West Coast. 1000 miles from the Northeast is crazy enough, nevermind 3000 from the PACNW.

Is the the Division that encompasses Mid-Ohio motivated and strong enough to develop, manage and promote this type of event? I think it's possible.

I would travel to the IT National Championships. You could do it over 3 days with a Pro Spec Miata race as support.

AB

[JeffYoung]

Same here. IT national championships at Mid-Ohio sounds like a great idea to me. I would drive to that.

[RacerBill]

Originally posted by JeffYoung@Oct 3 2005, 01:38 PM
Same here. IT national championships at Mid-Ohio sounds like a great idea to me. I would drive to that.

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I have mixed feelings about taking somthing away from a region that has worked very hard at building an event.

However, an event like that, promoted properly, that would attract IT cars and drivers from all over the country would be really great.

Mid-Ohio probably has a couple of free weekends in the fall now.

How about a restricted regional (IT classes only, maybe a few invited classes), three days. That would give the drivers plenty of track time.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I don't think a well promoted, centralized IT Runoff is taking away much from the ARRC. The fact remains that it is a glorified Regional with limited attendance from anywhere but the Southeast. It IS a great event that is the best we have now...I think we can do better. I am trying to raise the NARRC Championship to the level of the ARRC...and if we had 6 events like that Nationwide, it would make for great feeder material and food for predictions - and Regional pride - bringing your top guns to the SHOW....

I agree that it could be done in 3 days - ITS, A, B and C with a Pro SM support race....

Anyone from the MO area care to take the bull by the horns? I would commit 3 cars at the event.

AB