KA24E dyno sheets - ITA 240SX

[stevel]

Hey all. Anyone out there have any dyno sheets from a 12V SOHC KA24E out of the 89-90 240SX cars classed in ITA? I'll post mine up if others have some. Actually, I just post it regardless. I have to get the sheet first and scan it but peak numbers were 138hp/145tq. Peak power rpm was at 6000. A/F was pretty flat at 13.2:1. Area under the curve seemed good, no dips or spikes. This was on a dynojet 248C so the numbers are at the wheels. It was a bone stock motor with just the intake and exhaust done. How do the numbers sound to you guys? If anybody has any info they wanna share or a dyno sheet to compare with once I get mine completed and you don't wanna share it here feel free PM me on here.

steve

NER SCCA
240SX ITA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Nobody wants to participate with our boy Steve?

Couple items in the spirit of the post:

1. I here a decent 240SX ITA motor should make a little north of 150whp.

2. I am shooting for a little north of 135whp on my 1.8l Miata project. Will post the dyno sheets early in 2006.

AB

[its66]

Steve,
I don't have the 240 anymore, so I can't post the sheets. The best dyno sheets over on mine was (IIRC) 149 hp and 158 lb-ft. HP peak was about 5900 rpm. If you want to really be impressed, call Rebello, and see what they can do for these engines. The number is almost unbelievable.

Jim

[Greg Amy]

Matt's trying to kick butt and get our SR20DE built in time for the NARRC. Part of my deal with him is dyon testing. If/when it happens, and unless he ties me down to the ground, I'll post the numbers I get...

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 25 2005, 08:20 PM
Nobody wants to participate with our boy Steve?

Couple items in the spirit of the post:

1. I here a decent 240SX ITA motor should make a little north of 150whp.

2. I am shooting for a little north of 135whp on my 1.8l Miata project. Will post the dyno sheets early in 2006.

AB

61157


Andy,

If he got 138 WHP out of an essentially stock motor, I would think that 150+ in IT trim should be easily possible. What's the stock crank # on that car?

[its66]

factory rated the 12 valve KA24's at 140 hp

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bill Miller@Sep 25 2005, 11:03 PM
Andy,

If he got 138 WHP out of an essentially stock motor, I would think that 150+ in IT trim should be easily possible. What's the stock crank # on that car?

61171


Yup, I have seen some sheets and talked with some people...north of 150 is very possible but I don't want to give away the farm until some people post here...and if you wanna cut Rebello a check, you get "Stretch" numbers...

:)

AB

[erlrich]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 25 2005, 08:20 PM
Nobody wants to participate with our boy Steve?


I've been wanting to get my car on a dyno before I pull the motor for rebuilding, just to have some 'before and after' figures, but as yet just haven't found the time. As soon as I get the chance I'll be more than happy to post the results.

Earl

[DavidM]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 25 2005, 10:22 PM
Yup, I have seen some sheets and talked with some people...north of 150 is very possible but I don't want to give away the farm until some people post here...and if you wanna cut Rebello a check, you get "Stretch" numbers...

:)


I have the dyno sheets for the motor that was in the car when I bought it from Bob. HP is over 150. The car has a custom exhaust header that I think was the 4th generation and it looks like the timing was tweaked judging by some of the dyno sheet annotations. I actually don't know what's been done to the motor other than who built it.

Course my driving sucks at the moment so I'm not making good use of that horsepower, but maybe some day I'll do the car justice.

David

[handfulz28]

DavidM, do you know if those dyno sheets are from a chassis dyno (RWHP) or engine dyno?
I think Rebello puts his engines on a dyno for final tweaking and break-in, so those might be crank HP numbers.
It'd be interesting to see what those translate to on a chassis dyno. I'm real curious if different differential setups (open, welded, VLSD, Quaiffe, Torsen, Nismo, etc.) make a noticable difference in parasitic loss.

Michael
SEDIV ITA 240 #09

[stevel]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 26 2005, 12:20 AM
Nobody wants to participate with our boy Steve?

Couple items in the spirit of the post:

1. I here a decent 240SX ITA motor should make a little north of 150whp.

AB

61157


Andy, I'm shooting for north of 155whp. I've got lots of tricks up my sleeve. :o I'll get the dyno sheet this weekend and post it next monday. And when the motor is built and done (next April) I'll post that dyno sheet, and it will be from the same place. Not the same day and exact conditions but it'll give me a good idea. Glad to hear all the feedback. I can't wait!

AB, I've got some questions for ya. I have to remember them again though and write them down! Can't wait for the Glen. Awesome is the only way to describe it.

steve

[stevel]

Originally posted by handfulz28@Sep 26 2005, 07:14 PM
DavidM, do you know if those dyno sheets are from a chassis dyno (RWHP) or engine dyno?
I think Rebello puts his engines on a dyno for final tweaking and break-in, so those might be crank HP numbers.

Michael
SEDIV ITA 240 #09

61222


If you get the whole package from rebello they break it in and run it on the engine dyno, so the numbers are at the crank/flywheel. They tune the ecu, set the cam timing, and all the rest of there little tricks. It's pretty amazing what they can do. They can get more than 190 crank hp out of these motors, which translates to 160+ hp at the wheels.
So, I guess I can settle for 155whp or a little more! ;)

steve

[DavidM]

Originally posted by handfulz28@Sep 26 2005, 02:14 PM
DavidM, do you know if those dyno sheets are from a chassis dyno (RWHP) or engine dyno?
I think Rebello puts his engines on a dyno for final tweaking and break-in, so those might be crank HP numbers.


They are from a chassis dyno. Looks like they are from some tuning Bob did before he raced the car the last couple times at the end of 04. I do not have the original sheets from the engine dyno. I will have to correct myself a little bit. I was going from memory at work earlier. The torque numbers are over 150, but the HP numbers are slightly below. Just a tab below the numbers Jim posted. I believe I'm running a Nismo competition rear-end, though I'm not positive. I'm still learning about the car.

David

[Joe Harlan]

They can get more than 190 crank hp out of these motors, which translates to 160+ hp at the wheels.

Marketing is a powerful tool...... :blink:

I can tell you I have not seen those numbers and I have rubbed these engines quite a bit.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Sep 30 2005, 11:57 PM
...and I have rubbed these engines quite a bit.

61605


I am glad I didn't walk in on that when I came to visit...

:D

PM me on some stuff...

AB

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by DavidM@Sep 26 2005, 10:25 PM
I'm running a Nismo competition rear-end, though I'm not positive.

Bah-dupe keesh!


Marketing is a powerful tool...

So is a dyno readout. The last time we went to the dyno, we were interested in maximizing output (obviously). So, with his hands on the keyboard of the dyno control program, he asks us, "So, how much horsepower do you want?" - GA

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 1 2005, 06:03 AM
"So, how much horsepower do you want?" - GA

61613



Exactly!


I am glad I didn't walk in on that when I came to visit...

Lucky for me. The photos would be all over the net. :lol:

[kthomas]

Originally posted by stevel@Sep 26 2005, 09:28 PM
If you get the whole package from rebello they break it in and run it on the engine dyno, so the numbers are at the crank/flywheel. They tune the ecu, set the cam timing, and all the rest of there little tricks. It's pretty amazing what they can do. They can get more than 190 crank hp out of these motors, which translates to 160+ hp at the wheels.

61232


That's "West Coast" horsepower. They're smaller on a real dyno. ;)

[stevel]

Hey all,

Here are the dyno sheets I promised. 2 motors dyno'd at the same dyno facility, but on different days. Both in IT trim. Butterflies removed from the intake manifold. Stock fuel pressure regulators, 15 deg BTDC. Both are run off the stock ecu. Both have 2.25" exhaust, S&S header, stock intake tube with filter off the MAF.

The red line is a junkyard motor that wasn't cracked open. The S&S header on this car was badly dented where it bends to go under the car. Exhaust wasn't the greatest work but flowed well i guess. Compression test was 175, 180, 175, 175. So, it was a very nice junkyard motor.

The blue line is actually a built motor. Shaved head, decked block (for the +.5 CR increase), valve job, new valves, pistons, balanced, etc. Goes to show it takes a lot to beat the factory numbers sometimes. Compression test was 180 across the board. We had dyno'd it with a JWT ecu also, but the peak numbers didn't change. There was an increase in power from 2k - 4500 rpm (which we don't use anyways) and after that it was the same as the stock ecu. With the JWT, after 5500 rpm the a/f dropped to 11.5:1, but the power was the same. Not optimal though so we'll have to see what that was from, possibly not from the ecu.

The built motor will be torn down, inspected and re-ringed over the winter and we are building 2 more motors, so we'll see what kind of numbers we get next season. Intake and exhaust setups are going to be changed dramatically. With the intake rule now changed it will be interesting to see if there is any gain to be had there. I would think so, but I'll wait for the dyno results to find out. We will also be custom tuning the ecu's so we'll see what gains we can get there.

So, who's next?

steve

edit: having problems with the server I was hosting it on. Attached is the file.

[attachmentid=152]

[Joe Harlan]

Goes to show it takes a lot to beat the factory numbers sometimes.

? are your numbers wheel numbers or flywheel numbers?

I would look real serious at the exhaust system for gains.

[stevel]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 8 2005, 03:26 AM
? are your numbers wheel numbers or flywheel numbers?

I would look real serious at the exhaust system for gains.

64856


at the wheels. On a dynojet 248C.

steve

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by stevel@Nov 7 2005, 08:54 PM
at the wheels. On a dynojet 248C.

steve

64860



So with the mods you have you are making bout 160HP at the flywheel..rough estimate. I would bet there is a fair amount left in the exhaust. Also your base timing is a little conservative. What was your fuel pressure?

[stevel]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 8 2005, 03:58 AM
So with the mods you have you are making bout 160HP at the flywheel..rough estimate. Also your base timing is a little conservative.


I doubt there is much power to be had in changing timing at the distributor. It would be within the "noise" level of the dyno. Being able to change the fuel and timing at each point is where you really see gains that can be measured. If you get 1 whp from 17 deg as opposed to 15, I wouldn't even bother doing it. That's in my experience anyways. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has seen any gains otherwise. Besides, after blowing 2 motors this season from detonation, we erred on the conservative side.


Originally posted by Joe Harlan+Nov 8 2005, 03:58 AM-->
What was your fuel pressure?
[/b]


Originally posted by stevel@Nov 8 2005, 02:36 AM
Stock fuel pressure regulators, 15 deg BTDC.


<!--QuoteBegin-Joe Harlan@Nov 8 2005, 03:26 AM
I would look real serious at the exhaust system for gains.


I agree, I think a lot is left in the exhaust. I&#39;m changing header to a custom built unit and going to try different exhaust setups. 2.5" and 3" will be experimented with.

steve