WGI Fun one 9/17,9/18 [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

Tkczecheredflag

09-13-2005, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Rabbit05@Sep 13 2005, 08:14 PM
I was planning on going...BUT i when registered for the race gas wasn't $3.20 a gallon !! So unfortunatly the price of gas has put the kibosh on my plans. Kinda sucks too The Glen is my favorite track. Anybody want to buy a V-10 Dodge ? You all have fun , I'll be working my tail off to make the NARRC. Hey Tim K. good luck down there , too bad we couldn't carry out our usual ITC battle. Just try not to break my record ,OK?

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05

60095

John - You were supposed to show me around - what da ya mean break your record - I don't even know how to get to the track. HELP !!! I'll miss ya.

RSTPerformance

09-14-2005, 02:00 PM

I was going to go but I am going to Mid Ohio for the runnoffs on Sunday night. Originally I was going to go out to the Glen then meet up with Dad on his way out. Then my Brother could drive the truck and car back. Now Dad is going out Saturday night so I have no way to get from the Glen to Mid Ohio unless I tow the Race car out.... No can do with these new fuel costs!!!

Stephen
ITB Audi Coupe

benspeed

09-15-2005, 09:48 AM

This is one of the best weekends to race all season! I'm there with the car fully prepped and ready from last weekend at NHIS.

Cheers,

joeg

09-15-2005, 10:47 AM

Could be touch "damp", however.

tdw6974

09-15-2005, 12:04 PM

Ray, see you at the track we will be in the garage somewhere. :119: Tom Weaver
:eclipsee_steering:

tdw6974

09-15-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by joeg@Sep 13 2005, 02:53 PM
They will have a huge field 336 entries IRL Testing Friday.

Bildon

09-15-2005, 07:31 PM

I'm there #55.... And Don as well #50.
We're running both ITB cars this weekend.
Hopefully putting another NYSRRC ITB title in the bag :smilie_pokal:

RP Performance

09-19-2005, 10:08 AM

Any good news? I heard that there was a super fast Acura there.

dazzlesa

09-19-2005, 10:36 AM

ray whats the scoop?

rick #06 2005 ITA narrc champ

Tom Blaney

09-19-2005, 11:11 AM

Ok guys, I want some honest feedback on this one:

I am thinking seriously of sending an open letter to the SCCA (and/or comp board) requesting that they rethink the IT rules program. There is absolutely no way that it can be policed as it is by the stewards, and I’ll be damned if I have to keep putting up one thousand dollars each time somebody rolls up with a windellmobile.

I am at the point where I don’t really enjoy it this way, the guy in the miata and I were talking how Windell really ruined the event for both of us because we were racing for the win, and track records, and the windellmobile comes blasting out of nowhere and blows us off. To be honest once I got passed and realized that I was now racing for third, I just rolled over and drove 90% just to make sure I didn’t wreck it.

I think they need to free up the rules or consolidate the class with production or something.... so there is more that can be done so that "non-compliant" motors won’t be so easy to build since everybody can buy a cam and pistons. I realize the there is currently a production class, but it is not simple to got from IT to Prod without a lot of expense, and the fields are not as good, but the disparity is getting really big, and there is less about driving skill and more about what you can get away with.

dazzlesa

09-19-2005, 11:20 AM

tom i am not sure what to do . when we were at pocono i knew it was for 2nd or 3rd not for the win. rick

Weaver7

09-19-2005, 11:29 AM

Tom what happened yesterday? I heard the scuffle in impound (next to our garage) after the race. Who won? Windell and the Miata laped at turn 5 with the Miata leading the way and then you passed me on the front stretch with Ray hooked to your bumper. I lost the tranny on lap 13 no joy here. :(

Bill Weaver
ITA RX-7 #63

Andy Bettencourt

09-19-2005, 12:02 PM

Tom,

Tough one. I think if I was in a class that has drivers like that, I would have to be prepared to pony up and flush the cheaters out. It seems like you are saying there are some obvious cheaters out there. If they are, your money come back...but you know this.

How about a $10 compliance fee added to each IT registration to buy, maintain and train people on the tools we need to check compression, cylinder volume, cam specs, etc?

How about this winter we ask our CB Chairs to put into action a plan to be ready - and I mean REALLY READY for a full protest at any race they include in their Championship Series?

Then protests can be handled quickly and as painless as possible...

AB

gran racing

09-19-2005, 12:18 PM

I agree with Andy but understand why/where you're coming from Tom. The problem with opening things up is it adds to the cost of racing. We need IT to stay at it's current cost (or better yet, find ways to reduce the costs). But something must be done. I would love to see a Warning: You better clean your cars up cause in '06, cars will be legal. Like we've discussed in other posts, I'm not talking about dumb things like washer bottles or other minor non-performance items.

Tom Blaney

09-19-2005, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 19 2005, 12:02 PM
Tom,

Tough one. I think if I was in a class that has drivers like that, I would have to be prepared to pony up and flush the cheaters out. It seems like you are saying there are some obvious cheaters out there. If they are, your money come back...but you know this.

How about a $10 compliance fee added to each IT registration to buy, maintain and train people on the tools we need to check compression, cylinder volume, cam specs, etc?

How about this winter we ask our CB Chairs to put into action a plan to be ready - and I mean REALLY READY for a full protest at any race they include in their Championship Series?

Then protests can be handled quickly and as painless as possible...

AB

60558

Andy:

Last year when we grouped together and protested the CRX at the NARRC and found him blatently illegal with popup pistons, he got a simple slap on the wrist (they took the win away ooooohhhh) and we got our protest fee back months later less the cost of the camdoctor $250 and the manditory handling charge, so it still cost us more that it was worth.

So as I said I don't know what the answer is, but losing a minimum of $300 per protest (right or wrong) can add up especially when it becomes a cat and mouse game. I must say at least at the national level I never really had seen this much (except it the old SSA turbo days)

R2 Racing

09-19-2005, 01:45 PM

Hmmm, I was thinking about you guys all weekend and was wishing I could be there. I guess I don't feel so bad now.

ChrisCamadella

09-19-2005, 02:08 PM

Hey, does anyone know who won it ITS on Sunday?

I wish I could have been there, it was a beautiful day!

Chris Camadella
ITS Porsche 944

megmeyer

09-19-2005, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by ChrisCamadella@Sep 19 2005, 06:08 PM
Hey, does anyone know who won it ITS on Sunday?

I wish I could have been there, it was a beautiful day!

Chris Camadella
ITS Porsche 944

60570

Dan Jones from SCR in a BMW. Best time was a 1:29.270.

FYI Paul Bergeron in a BMW352i broke the track record with a 1:28.609, and finished second.

Meg Meyer
ITC #27
NYSRRC Pointskeeper (who happens to have the results at work) ;)

benspeed

09-19-2005, 02:10 PM

The ITS racing was outstanding at the Glen. The race on Saturday had at least 6-7 lead changes over 4 cars. The front pack was extremely tight and everybody ran clean - zero contact and some of the best racing I've ever experienced. My in car video is right out of a European Touring car video or Speed Touring footage. Way to go and thanks all.

1 - Bergeron - BMW 2:15.6
2- Camedella - Porshce 2:16.5
3- Phillips - Mazda 2:17.7

The competition board should be commended - there were 4 makes of car that contended for the win.

On Sunday the racing was also outstanding excepting getting tangled up passing a lap car while running third. Leaders coming through fast and I don't think he saw me coming and came down and I was blasting through without checking brakes - closing speed was 30+mph. My car sustained some pretty bad damage and the other fellow was even worse off. Didn't know him - ITA Mazda - we both made sure we were OK and went off lick the wounds in the paddock.

1 - Sheppard - BMW 1:29 ?
2- Bergeron - BMW
3 - Wheeler - Acura
(Didn't stick around for the sheets-4 hour tow)

With regard to the concerns over cheating - I will bring up the issue at the next NNJR Board of Directors meeting and see how this can be addressed at the upcoming Mini-Con. We should seek to train enough tech staff on the fundamental motor cheats so people know that a protest can and will be followed through promptly and professionally. I always err on the side that we all run legal, but the real threat of being turned out as a cheater like that lowlife at the NAARC last year will make people think twice. The problem is rarely is anybody asked to open the hood in impound and no tech guys really inspect when we do - they largely leave it to the drivers who are typically all friends and wont seek to make enemies. No criticism of tech - this is the current procedure. And I'm a driver and don't know my piston from my rotor - I wouldn't know a cheat if it was staring me in the face.

I would want the agenda at the Mini-Con to address proceedure, cost, training and tools. I'd be intrested if there was a means to check a motor for potential cheats before tearing it apart. Any way to identify tell tale clues on piston and rotary motors without major surgery?

Thanks again to all the drivers at the Glen - stands as one of the best events all year (and judging from the level of competition - a ton of folks had the game face on!)

Cheers,

b

joeg

09-19-2005, 02:28 PM

What did they do with the TOP 4 positions in the Spec Miata race?

Z73

09-19-2005, 02:30 PM

This was my first time running in ITA (I have raced in many other groups) and it was an interesting weekend. I ran Bret's Miata (which is for sale) and got to meet some great drivers and nice people in the group. For the most part it was a great time. Tom Blaney and Ray it was my pleasure to run with you guys and I would love to share the track with you anytime.

I was lucky enough to get the pole both days (close on the short course) and ran closely with Tom in qualifying. His car and the Miata were VERY close on power and I would say we had a dead drag on the start on Sunday. His was a little better climbing the boot and the miata was a little better going down into the boot. I would say the cars are a wash and it was fun running with him.

What happend on Sunday was one of the cars was able to pull me 20-25 cars lengths on the back straight even when I had a good run on him. This made for some very interesting video. Both days I was under the track record in qualifying (Tom was also for the short course)so I was getting out of the turns well that lead onto the straights so this was frustrating but hey I guess that is racing. ITA is not my playground so I am just saying what I saw and what happend. I know the cars are stronger in different spots but that is a lot of car lengths.

I have to admit starting on the front row with the ITS cars in the first race was very strange and I was not really looking forward to the land rush when the flag waved. Anyway, it was fun and I hope Ray and Tom making it back down to Summit soon. Awesome start on Sunday Ray...wow that was nice.

Ken

megmeyer

09-19-2005, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by joeg@Sep 19 2005, 06:28 PM
What did they do with the TOP 4 positions in the Spec Miata race?

60573

What do you mean?

Meg

RP Performance

09-19-2005, 03:32 PM

[quote]
Ok guys, I want some honest feedback on this one:

I am thinking seriously of sending an open letter to the SCCA (and/or comp board) requesting that they rethink the IT rules program. There is absolutely no way that it can be policed as it is by the stewards, and I’ll be damned if I have to keep putting up one thousand dollars each time somebody rolls up with a windellmobile.

I am at the point where I don’t really enjoy it this way, the guy in the miata and I were talking how Windell really ruined the event for both of us because we were racing for the win, and track records, and the windellmobile comes blasting out of nowhere and blows us off. To be honest once I got passed and realized that I was now racing for third, I just rolled over and drove 90% just to make sure I didn’t wreck it.

Why not take them out behind a trailer with a 2x4? I just really think that the fact that someone would go out and break a track record by cheating is horrible. I know that my car was good and LEGAL and Tom had a good fast car also as well as Ray. The idea of this just makes me sick. I would not have problem putting up every penny in a protest.

Rabbit05

09-19-2005, 03:49 PM

Hey does anyone have any ITC times and results for both days? I am p****d that i missed one of my favorite weeknds of the year... but with George B. and his oil buddies ripping off the common man, I couldnt afford to go. I'll see you all at the NARRC for sure.

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit05

Racerboy03

09-19-2005, 04:36 PM

So what were the actual results from both days in ITA? I take it Windell won at least one of the days? Wish I could have been there(damn classes!).

Hope to see you guys at Summit in Oct!

-Mark C.

joeg

09-19-2005, 05:12 PM

John--Meg Meyers broke each of the long and short course ITC records by a whole lot! She was in the 2:28(s) on the long course.

Perfect conditions and a great driver.

joeg

09-19-2005, 05:15 PM

[quote]
What do you mean?

We watched the 4 leaders all pass a back marker under yellow. It was kind of obvious.

tdw6974

09-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Racerboy03@Sep 19 2005, 08:36 PM
So what were the actual results from both days in ITA?

Saturday ITA 1st Ray Chee, 2nd Larry Hebeler Jr, 3rd Mark Connolly, 12 lap race Windell completed 7, Tom 4 (Oil Pan leak I think) 55 Staters, Sunday 17 lap race 47 Starters 1st Windell Holmes, 2nd Ken Zalner (Brett's ITA Miata which is available for purchase) and 3rd was Tom Blaney. Windell set a new track record of 1:30:131. These are from the official race results.

scca54

09-19-2005, 06:59 PM

I was in the spec miata race the weekend, but watched the ITA/ITS race. It was pretty bad out there in ITA. The integra driven by Windell <_< was going up the esses got stuck behind the miata of Zalner, had to hit his brakes, got back on the gas and cleared the miata of Zalner by about 15 car lengths before the bus stop. The ITS Integra GSR couldn't even come close to putting that king of distance on Zalner.

I used to run an ITA CRX in 2001, came up to do the July double. Got see what the New York region was all about. Windell "my buddy" ;) in a CRX at the time was on my bumper going into turn one. I looked in my mirror before I was going up the esses he was at least 10 car lengths behind me, all of the sudden my car got really loud, but wait it's not my car it's Windell he back and clears me by about 3 car lengths before braking at 500 ft for the bus stop and parking in the turns.

I also need to clarify my car did end up winning that race. It had a 2 race old King Motorsports engine, dyno-ed at 124hp to the wheels on a dyno-pac dyno under the hood. The way Windell passed me he had to have at least 20hp on me. Everyone asks where he was when they ran the long course? Too many turns, slows him down a lot.

I will end my little rant with this, in the DC region if someone is cheating and it's that obvious. The class as a whole will agree to have that car looked at a little more carefully. Or send Windell to the Puppy Farm with Bob Stretch and his 11 to 1 compression "spec miata" from the ARRC. :023:

lateapex911

09-19-2005, 09:09 PM

Tom, nothing new in this case, except Windell has found a way to make his grenade motors last a few laps longer before they ........grenade.

Windell is funny, as you pointed out, it's a cat and mouse game. In Atlanta, he was average on the straights at best.. hmmmmm, they take things apart down there, so you better not be running funny stuff in your heads....

Most times, I have watched him go down in flames or smoke or steam or a pool of oil on the side of the track.

Solutions? I know you won't like it, but of course, he has to be talked to. Maybe Richie should talk to him when he's taking a porta poddy break. Make sure Richie knows to tip door side down!

OK, kidding...kinda.

In the NER, at least in IT, he's the worst kept "secret" going...or I wouldn't be writing what I've written. If he isn't cheating, then he needs to go into business. You have to tear him down. He's blazing fast one day, blows up ALL the time, but is average on other days. All over the map that guy.

I know, you had a bad experience.....I've talked with some stewards that were there on that day, and the disgust in the way it played out is evident. I get the impression that it is now impossible for that result to replay.

The penalty was an absolute joke. High compression pistons, used to win races and set records, and a one race DQ??? A fiasco to say the least.

I think that that protest set waves thru the steward AND the race community, and I haven't heard on peep that thinks the result was fair or proper from either side.

I think that you won't see the same result, and that any protest will be handled more professionally, and that the punishment will be much more fitting of the crime, should the car be found illegal.

Think Windell reads the site??

;)

Greg Amy

09-19-2005, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Tom Blaney@Sep 19 2005, 11:11 AM
There is absolutely no way that it can be policed as it is by the stewards...
60549

Tom, just a point of order: "the stewards" do not and will not police the class for legality. The tech team is primarily there to make sure the car's comply with safety regulations and to implement technical inspections upon request of the stewards, divisional administrators, and/or competitors in the form of a protest.

Like it or not, that's the way the system is designed in SCCA club racing for 99.99% of the events; the best (and sometimes only) way to compliance is via competitors protest.

Greg Amy
#33 ITA Nissan NX2000 (or so they tell me)
Divisional Tech Inspector

Bildon

09-19-2005, 10:26 PM

re: the cheating. I was VERY surprised to see the scales not be used this weekend. Was this true for all classes? :blink:

Also, I suppose time prohibits a full, head off inspection/measurement of cars post race, but we must be able to come up with a compromise. Perhaps some sort of random "open" inspection period where top cars are taken from post qualifying impound to an area where the owner must put the car on display for peer review.

I envision a 1/2 hour mandatory period where an appointed SCCA Tech Inspector is on hand to hear complaints or submitted requests from (anonymous?) competitors. Those requests might be to remove the valve cover or various easily accessible covers (flywheel, oil pan, etc). All cars in this impound area should however, be checked for COMPRESSION !! This is so easy and is never done. If a group of one's peers see a compression # that is out of whack this should go a long way towards embarassing away some blatant cheating. I understand that cylinder pressure alone doesn't tell the whole story...but it must help deter... <_< Also every region should have a displacement pump... another very cheap and effective tool.

Could something like this be enforced upon IT classes on a "random" basis perhaps two or three events per year/ per series?

Andy Bettencourt

09-19-2005, 10:52 PM

Could some events be deemed as 'complience' events? Compression checks for XXX classes to be named in impound, then a different set of classes the next event?

AB

lateapex911

09-20-2005, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 19 2005, 10:52 PM
Could some events be deemed as 'complience' events? Compression checks for XXX classes to be named in impound, then a different set of classes the next event?

AB

60647

Advertise it so the cheaters skip that event?

I prefer the surprise method myself.

(My theory is that a guy who DECIDES to cheat will also decide to avoid getting caught....we've seen cars change their performance overnight baased on protest threats, only to suddenly speed up at a later date. The guy who is the worst offender will attempt to slip thru the dragnet. On the other hand, having a random, but ever present threat that he might be nailed would do more, IMHO...)

megmeyer

09-20-2005, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Rabbit05@Sep 19 2005, 07:49 PM
Hey does anyone have any ITC times and results for both days? I am p****d that i missed one of my favorite weeknds of the year... but with George B. and his oil buddies ripping off the common man, I couldnt afford to go. I'll see you all at the NARRC for sure.

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit05

60584

John,

I really wish you had been able to make it. But I understand completely about the gas price thing! If I had not lucked into a full sponsorship, I wouldn't be racing at all!

I don't know what was so different, but my 2:28.228 on Saturday was almost 5 seconds a lap faster than I have ever done there! Last year, I was turning 2:32's with the same car. On Sunday, both Ed Funk and I got the short track record, I just got down about .3 more than he did. I ended up with a 1:37.372 (old one was 1:38.8??). At least that was only 1-2 seconds faster than my own previous fast lap! (Of course, the weather was different)

It would have been really interesting (at least to me) to see how much was the track, or if I actually got a little better, plus the track! (I am hoping it was the latter! ;) )

Take care, and I hope to see you some next year!

Meg

PS - the results are up on mylaps.com now.

megmeyer

09-20-2005, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by joeg@Sep 19 2005
We watched the 4 leaders all pass a back marker under yellow. It was kind of obvious.

Oh! I know they pulled over 2-3 of them when they came off the track. They did it right on the front straight when that one car hit the tire wall (if it is what I think it was). I personally thought they waited until they got to the stopped car, but maybe not. My guess would be they got talked to, and came up with a somewhat valid response (pass the guy or hit him comes to mind) since there were no notes on the results about any penalties.

Meg

Rabbit05

09-20-2005, 08:42 AM

Meg,

Congrats on the lap record ! Both days ! Yeah i am loking forward to going next year , I might try to make it for the next one in October, but i have plans to do the Narrc runoffs. So with the entery fees at LRP being what they are its probably a long shopt to make the Glen too. Well it sounds like you had an awesome weekend. See ya soon if not definatly next year at the Fun One !

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05

Andy Bettencourt

09-20-2005, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by lateapex911@Sep 19 2005, 11:33 PM
Advertise it so the cheaters skip that event?

I prefer the surprise method myself.

(My theory is that a guy who DECIDES to cheat will also decide to avoid getting caught....we've seen cars change their performance overnight baased on protest threats, only to suddenly speed up at a later date. The guy who is the worst offender will attempt to slip thru the dragnet. On the other hand, having a random, but ever present threat that he might be nailed would do more, IMHO...)

60657

Maybe I didn't write it correctly, but 'to be named in impound' was my thought process. ANY race is a compliance race, but you just don't know if your number will be called until you take the checkers.

This way, the fearful ALWAYS stay away and everyone else has a chance of getting picked...

AB

ShelbyRacer

09-20-2005, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by GregAmy@Sep 20 2005, 02:10 AM
Tom, just a point of order: "the stewards" do not and will not police the class for legality. The tech team is primarily there to make sure the car's comply with safety regulations and to implement technical inspections upon request of the stewards, divisional administrators, and/or competitors in the form of a protest.

I agree Greg, but it *is* the Stewards' job to make sure that a protest is handled properly and that the methods and techniques used follow the GCR. I know I wouldn't file a protest if I felt it was likely to be mishandled...

Greg Amy

09-20-2005, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by ShelbyRacer@Sep 20 2005, 07:14 PM
...but it *is* the Stewards' job to make sure that a protest is handled properly and that the methods and techniques used follow the GCR.
60744

I completely, absolutely, totally, 100% agree with you. Which is EXACTLY why, after last year's northeast protest debacle and a very unpleasant experience at this year's pre-season annual tech, I volunteered to become an SCCA technical inspector. I have worked hard to achieve the Divisional rating in one year, with an eye towards National as soon as practicable. I've already participated in one significant protest situation this year (along with another IT forum regular), where we were able to directly divert discussions, processes, and procedures forward positively. It was a lot like making sausage, but good things came out of it.

I cannot promise anything, especially given that I'm small fries in the very political hierarchy (and a competitor to boot), but it is my goal to see that these ideals are met whenever possible. - GA

RP Performance

09-20-2005, 08:30 PM

Since you guys up north know your stewards and who to talk what about this. I am not sure if this is possible or not but what if Windell admitted to cheating at this event. What is the chance that his results can be withdrawn as well as his track record? I this might be a long shot but it is more unfair that he broke a track record this way, how much did he break it by? Not only is that a problem but think about seeing his name on the lap record stats for years to come and knowing how he got it :bash_1_:

megmeyer

09-20-2005, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Rabbit05@Sep 20 2005, 12:42 PM
Meg,

Congrats on the lap record ! Both days !

John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05

60673

Thanks, John! With a little luck, I will be there, too!

Meg

lateapex911

09-20-2005, 09:27 PM

Thats a good point, and a big one.

We had the same situation last year when Shane Hawthorne showed sudden speed, started winning and setting records.

We grouped together and protested and he was eventually found to be running domed high compression pistons.

Trouble is (among other issues) that the protest chief never interviewd him as to the history of the motor...they had no knowledge of it's length of use! Even MORE amazing is that there were 3 Stewards on the case, and NONE of them saw fit to delve into that aspect!

Historically, there was a Miata driver protested the year before in NER for a huge list of things, and he was found to have an exhaust manifold that was out of compliance. Compliance in this case being a completely untouched stock part. Trouble was that he found a crack in it, and made a bad desicion..weld instead of replace. So they spotted the repair, and asked him about it. he was honest, and admitted to making the repair in the begining of the year.

Now, you can argue about whether it was a performance benefit or not, but you can't argue that it was anything that was REALLY helpful, LOL... If he got .25 hp from it I'd be amazed.

But, he lost all his NARRC, NERRC and whatever series points, and was charged 7 points on his lic. Pretty major stuff, but I was told it was in line. An unmodified part has to be UN modified. Black and whte. So...............

So, Shane got caught with the pistons....and he was DQ'ed from the race. I was told the "Cost of rebuilding and the shame" were punishment enough by the protest steward.....
(See "a protest story" in rules and regs by me if you want the total story)

THe track record stood...until later that day when Anthony Serra rebroke it.

The trophies are still at his house, and the trophies are NOT in the hands of the deserving.

It is my understanding that wins, finishes and track records are taken away if you are found to be guilty of running a car in an illegal condition. How it happens though, I am not clear on.

(and sadly, it is dificult to prove that the car was illegal then, as not many are as honest as the Miata guy was)

lateapex911

09-20-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 20 2005, 09:00 AM
Maybe I didn't write it correctly, but 'to be named in impound' was my thought process. ANY race is a compliance race, but you just don't know if your number will be called until you take the checkers.

This way, the fearful ALWAYS stay away and everyone else has a chance of getting picked...

AB

60677

OH, cool, I am TOTALLY for that!

(Washer bottles, half missing parking light lenses and the like should be either mentioned or a "fix by next event" thing though...but big pistons etc...thats the big stuff.)

Bildon

09-20-2005, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by lateapex911@Sep 20 2005, 09:29 PM
(Washer bottles, half missing parking light lenses and the like should be either mentioned or a "fix by next event" thing though...but big pistons etc...thats the big stuff.)
60757

Oh yes.. it's important to make that distinction! :happy204:
IT is a regional class for entry level racing and is supposed to still be fun. :smilie_pokal:
Let's not get carried away and piss off the poor guy who got his first ever "podium" only to find out later he'd been protested and penalized for missing a side marker light... that can be dealt with outside what we're discussing here which is about curbing performance enhacing mods=cheating.

I like what I'm reading here guys... how do we make it happen? :023:

Z73

09-20-2005, 11:31 PM

To answer your question Bret he beat the old record held by Anthony Serra (2004 ARRC winner and great driver) by 1.5 seconds. The old record was a 1:31:6...I did a 1:30:9 and Holmes did a 1:30:1. The short course was made for the way the Miata handles coming out of the bus stop so it is not out of the reach to turn a high 30 on that track. Just wait until you watch the tape Bret, the ITS GSR did not even pull me half as badly as the ITA car. With the turns there to help keep us close I finished 1.9 seconds back from the lead.

Anyway, I guess what is done is done and we can not change anything. I wish Anthony was there so we could be more informed on what would make a car that fast. By the way congrats on the recent addition to your family Anthony.

Ken

JLawton

09-21-2005, 06:39 AM

Jake and Andy,
I like the helicopter pictures!! :ph34r: :lol:

Where's the second shooter!!??

lateapex911

09-21-2005, 10:44 AM

Andy gets full credit for that! I swiped it cuz of all the BS that I and the rest of the ITAC were getting on the IS300 to ITS thread, which turned out to be about the E36 in ITS. Long story short, the E36 owners were not pleased with the tone of the discussion, and the ITAC guys were accused of some less than nice things...hence the black helecopter....a sarcastic point.

I will retrun to the norm once the thread dies it's tortured death, LOL.

ITABrad

09-21-2005, 01:29 PM

Meg,
Great job, my ole' driver school buddy. We're proud of what you've accomplished. I would also like to thank you for your hard work in T&S when your not driving. Hope to see you in October somewhere.
Brad

megmeyer

09-21-2005, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by ITABrad@Sep 21 2005, 05:29 PM
Meg,
Great job, my ole' driver school buddy. We're proud of what you've accomplished. I would also like to thank you for your hard work in T&S when your not driving. Hope to see you in October somewhere.
Brad

60819

Thanks Brad! It was really quite surprising to me. I am reading all this stuff about Windell, but I beat the long course record by 1.3, and the short course record by 1.5 seconds, and my car is no different than it was last year. There must have been something about the track conditions, or the weather, or something. A lot of records fell by quite a bit.

Oh well. I had a great time, and can't wait for the next race!

I may not make it to Summit for the October race. I have a concert to go to on Sat night, and I don't think the 3 hour each way (+, because of traffic) is worth a 1 day trip.

Will you be at the Pumpkin? :unsure: I hope so!

Meg

ShelbyRacer

09-22-2005, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by GregAmy@Sep 20 2005, 11:27 PM
I completely, absolutely, totally, 100% agree with you. Which is EXACTLY why, after last year's northeast protest debacle and a very unpleasant experience at this year's pre-season annual tech, I volunteered to become an SCCA technical inspector. I have worked hard to achieve the Divisional rating in one year, with an eye towards National as soon as practicable. I've already participated in one significant protest situation this year (along with another IT forum regular), where we were able to directly divert discussions, processes, and procedures forward positively. It was a lot like making sausage, but good things came out of it.

Hence one of the reasons I'll be entering the Stewards program next year or the following, with a real hankering to work mostly as a Tech Steward. My real goal is to be able to work as an advocate for those who put the time and energy into doing the right thing the right way. I think there are some very good Stewards out there who work tech at times, but I also think there are those who get "stuck" in tech because no one else wants the job. I honestly have little desire to be an Operating Steward or a Chief Steward, as I like to investigate before making decisions (I'm not real comfortable making a decision on the fly that could affect someone's race or someone's safety). I'd rather do Tech, Safety, or SOM where investigation is the emphasis (although not always the practice :rolleyes: ).

Since I can't afford to drive right now (new baby on the way and a 2 1/2 year old already), I figure I'll try to contribute in other ways...

Greg (and anyone else)- are you coming down for the Mini-Convention?

ITABrad

09-22-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by megmeyer@Sep 22 2005, 12:55 AM
Thanks Brad! It was really quite surprising to me. I am reading all this stuff about Windell, but I beat the long course record by 1.3, and the short course record by 1.5 seconds, and my car is no different than it was last year. There must have been something about the track conditions, or the weather, or something. A lot of records fell by quite a bit.

Oh well. I had a great time, and can't wait for the next race!

I may not make it to Summit for the October race. I have a concert to go to on Sat night, and I don't think the 3 hour each way (+, because of traffic) is worth a 1 day trip.

Will you be at the Pumpkin? :unsure: I hope so!

Meg

60863

Meg,
I think they are talking about a different kind of speed when speaking of Windell. You are talking about track conditions and grip, while they are talking about tremendous straightaway speed.
I would like to do the Pumpkin. I have'nt been to Nelson for three years. It sometimes doesn't make sense to me to tow to Summit Point, VIR , and the Glen when I've got Nelson 40 minutes away, Beaverun is 30 minutes away, and Mid Ohio 2 hours, but the MARRS Series was to tempting. It's not like logic has anything to do with this stuff anyway.
Brad

Bildon

09-22-2005, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by megmeyer@Sep 21 2005, 08:55 PM
There must have been something about the track conditions, or the weather, or something. A lot of records fell by quite a bit.
60863

It's the curbing..or lack-thereof. The IRL cars couldn't handle the NASCAR curbing so it was all removed and now it's basically just paint with grooves in it :023:

The biggest changes for me were the 'bus-stop' and T1.
You can straighten the 'bus-stop' chicane a lot now that the first curb is flat.
And it's no longer a penalty to overshoot T1. You can really late brake now and if you overshoot T1...no biggie, the fast RWD cars were ALL way out there. I know I was grabbing 5th gear way before T2 this year where in the past I was shifting after turn-in or even leaving it in 4th up the hill.

megmeyer

09-22-2005, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Bildon@Sep 22 2005, 02:32 PM
It's the curbing..or lack-thereof. The IRL cars couldn't handle the NASCAR curbing so it was all removed and now it's basically just paint with grooves in it :023:

60923

Hmmmmm. I didn't think about that. But that was there for the July sprints, and I only turned a 2:32 something on the long course. I know I am NOT using the runoff room in T1, but I am using the 'curb' in the bus stop, and I agree with you there!

Oh, well. I guess I will stop worrying about it, and just be grateful for the records! :D

Meg

joeg

09-22-2005, 02:18 PM

Meg is correct. They did not really change the track (curbing, etc.) after the July race. It was done early this year.

Weather and temp (dry, cooler and calm) along with fresh rubber--remember the big storm on Friday night) are the keys.

Bildon

09-22-2005, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by joeg@Sep 22 2005, 02:18 PM
It was done early this year.

60968

Right, which is why every class record (in IT anyway) fell in July.
July was very hot too. I've often wondered what conditions really make for a faster track. I'd like to see a real scientific analysis of that.

On Saturday everybody was ~2 seconds slower than in July. We were all making up hypothesis about the 'thick' air, etc. Weird.

ITABrad

09-22-2005, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Bildon@Sep 22 2005, 08:26 PM
Right, which is why every class record (in IT anyway) fell in July.
July was very hot too. I've often wondered what conditions really make for a faster track. I'd like to see a real scientific analysis of that.

On Saturday everybody was ~2 seconds slower than in July. We were all making up hypothesis about the 'thick' air, etc. Weird.

60982

I wish the weather would only make ME faster.

megmeyer

09-23-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Bildon@Sep 22 2005, 08:26 PM
On Saturday everybody was ~2 seconds slower than in July. We were all making up hypothesis about the 'thick' air, etc. Weird.

60982

I guess I just have to be the exception to everything! ;) I was 1.3 seconds faster than the previous record on Saturday, and 5 seconds faster than my best ever (which had been July). Go figure!

Meg

IT WONA BE

09-25-2005, 01:07 AM

You guys kill me.When Tom jump on the Miata at Glen the event before last he was saying the guy was cheating because he was so fast.And one thing I don't understand is how they could be racing for 1st and lap record.I guess they where the only ones in the class that were racing.

Andy Bettencourt

09-25-2005, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by IT WONA BE@Sep 25 2005, 01:07 AM
You guys kill me.When Tom jump on the Miata at Glen the event before last he was saying the guy was cheating because he was so fast.And one thing I don't understand is how they could be racing for 1st and lap record.I guess they where the only ones in the class that were racing.

61120

1st post, no name... Pllllease.

Sign your name for any credibility. ANY.

AB

RP Performance

09-25-2005, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Sep 25 2005, 12:20 PM
1st post, no name... Pllllease.

Sign your name for any credibility. ANY.

AB

61125

Like we don't know that is anyway? three guess's and the first two don't count.

Tom Blaney

09-25-2005, 08:59 AM

You Ass!

I never said Bret was cheating, in fact if you were there, we were laughing in the impound that it was such a good race and I complemented him on working me over the way he did. He drove the car to the max (even though the race was short) and when I got in front of him he never relented, and never made contact. That is what we call clean FAIR racing. Anthony, Ray, and I have had races that might have been some of the best I have had (even compared to the old SSA Runoff's races) and we have walked away respecting each others skill and talent, and not putting each other in harms way just for a trophy.

I have raced many more guys than you can imagine, raced in many regional and national classes, and I am not afraid to stand up for what is right. If I think somebody is not playing fair (well beyond the typical washer bottle or suspension tweeks) I have no problem speaking up. Perhaps it should be done to more often to their face instead of here.

Part of the reason I sold the car is I am fed up with exactly this kind of crap. Some of you guys need to get the balls to stand up for what you mumble behind the guys back. I will be better for the club and better racing in the end.

Tom Blaney

lateapex911

09-25-2005, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Tom Blaney@Sep 25 2005, 08:59 AM
You Ass!

Tom Blaney

61129

ROTFLMAO!

Perfecto!

To the masked man (the new member making his first post), Andy was conservative in his "no credibility" comment....

Around here, on this board, members who don't provide their identity are automatically considered to be BSing, and thought of as....well, Tom got it in one word.

Filll in the signiture section, add some reasoning yo your post and see if you can do some damage control.

scca54

09-25-2005, 08:26 PM

Well I think we all know Windell is a cheater who will never have our respect as a good driver. That is really what we are after every time I step on the track the respect of my racing peers and I expect that is what any driver is after. I will always remember "I have blank check, I have blank check you have nothing for me." in impound. Tom, Ray, Bret, and Kenny I have a lot of respect for them they are all great drivers. Maybe one day Windell will WAKE UP but not likely people like him never seem to change.

Jason Meise

Weaver7

09-26-2005, 01:03 PM

Part of the reason I sold the car is I am fed up with exactly this kind of crap.

You sold the CRX?

megmeyer

09-26-2005, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Tom Blaney@Sep 25 2005, 12:59 PM
You Ass!

Tom Blaney

61129

Tom,

Since I can't think of any reason that might be for me, I am curious as to which post generated this reply?

Meg :unsure:

Andy Bettencourt

09-26-2005, 01:28 PM

Tom Blaney

09-26-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by megmeyer@Sep 26 2005, 01:09 PM
Tom,

Since I can't think of any reason that might be for me, I am curious as to which post generated this reply?

Meg :unsure:

61219

Sorry guys, that post was directed at the guy who stated that I called Bret a cheater, which never happened. :bash_1_:

Yes I did sell the car, it will be going to Doug Case and Dave Hoffman (those are the two guys who had their car destroyed by Windell's reckless actions at Lime Rock a few weeks back) They are nice guys and with some luck will be beating on the front runners in no time.

I asked that we take one more shot at the 12 hours at the point next year(third times a charm) and if all goes well they will be chasing Larry Hebler and I in his "Bullet Proof Engine" powered CRX :P at hte 3 hour at the Glen in October.

I need to take a break from the schedule for a while, and although I'm not totally out, one foot is out the door.

Tom

megmeyer

09-26-2005, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Tom Blaney@Sep 26 2005, 07:27 PM

I asked that we take one more shot at the 12 hours at the point next year(third times a charm) and if all goes well they will be chasing Larry Hebler and I in his "Bullet Proof Engine" powered CRX :P at hte 3 hour at the Glen in October.

I need to take a break from the schedule for a while, and although I'm not totally out, one foot is out the door.

Tom

61223

No problem, I understand how that would make me feel!

Best of luck with Larry in October! He is a great guy! (I am formerly of WNY, and now that is my secondary region)

I hope I see you there!

Meg