Some new guy questions

[Ryan9118]

Ok, first of all I tryed running a few searches but I couldn't quite narrow it down to what I was looking for. I couldn't quite find the rule book to look for a few things either, so sorry if I'm a nuisance. I hope this is the right place to be posting this....

Anyways, I'm 16 right now (turning 17 next month) and I'd really like to get into road racing. I started getting into cars when I was about 11 or 12 and it's just kind of grown and grown. I first thought autocross but then thought road racing would be more exciting and fun. Anyways the dilemna that comes up is that I don't have a car to race (working on that), don't have any track experience, and am not 100% sure on what I need to get racing. I want to take the right approach as I don't want to go out and make one mistake and be labeled as the 17 year old kid who just played too much Need for Speed. :bash_1_:

The reason I came to the IT forums is because I've heard it's a good competitive series and relatively (Keyword: Relatively) cheap to get into. As far as cars go I've looked at anything from Rabbit's, GTi's, 944's, CRX's, Civic's, Talon's, Corolla's, Miata's, etc, etc. There really isn't a shortage of cars to use that I know of. The thing I'm not sure about is how the cars are grouped. I know that there would be classes like autocross, where the cars are split up according to the regulations and the modifications done to them, correct? Anyone help me out with this? Also, what's a good ballpark estimate of the bare essentials I would need to get going. I figured anywheres from $5,000-$10,000 depending on car and equipment. Am I dreaming or is this about right?

Next up, is that I want to make sure I have some experience before I get out on the track. I'm trying to go to the Bondurant Racing School down in AZ, but it's a little hard to convince my parents to shell out $4500 for a 3-day vacation. I live in Washington right now, can anyone suggest some cheaper alternatives? You need to participate in some sort of instructional school to be qualified for road racing, correct? I know the basic fundamentals of car control, but that doesn't mean I'm a pro. I obviously need to get practice. Reading about controlling a car at track speeds is 10x different from actually doing it. I figure a few autocrosses here and there wouldn't hurt either, just to get me familiar with the whole thing.

I guess the last question I can think of right now is can I even get into some sort of road racing? I looked at a club that races at Pacific Raceways but it looked like I needed to be 18 to get in. Maybe I need to keep dreaming for another year? :smilie_pokal: Anyways, if anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it. I'm just looking for a little guidance as to go about this whole thing.


-Ryan

[ddewhurst]

Ryan, there are several things you could do to learn more about SCCA road racing.

1st give us a town that you live in to go along with the state of Washington. (Someone from that town or area may jump in & offer some personal insite. Or they may offer you a spot to go to the races with them to start the learning process.)

2nd When we know your town we may suggest a close by road racing track where spectators are allowed. At a road racing track you can mingle within the paddock where the race cars are worked on. LOOK & LEARN & ASK QUESTIONS. Most all car owners like to talk about their cars.

3rd If you are really serious about starting your learing of the SCCA rules, classes & so on go to www.scca.org & look around the site.

4th While at the SCCA site order yourself a GCR (General Competition Rules) book which is approx $30 for a non SCCA member. It has most everything you need to know to become an active member/car owner/driver/worker.

The best thing you can do is LEARN before you leap into building or buying a race car. Keep in mind tha most racers have a trailer & tow vehicle to get their race car to & from the track. Not trying to be an ass. Just trying to present facts. Ya can Solo with your street car. Good Solo drivers make great road racers. Ya can race a Kart without a trailer & tow vehicle.

Have Fun ; )
David

[VW16VRacer]

Ryan

Come out to one of the Confrence races at Pacific. We have a great Novice Program and talk to Bill Vine, he is the Novice Director. Confrence (IMHO) has a better Novice program than SCCA, we give you more track time with novice drivers before you hit the track with the Senior drivers

One thing to think about at 17 is that SCHOOL should be your main focus right now to get the job that can afford this very expensive "hobbie". Nothing is more frustrating than buying someones nightmare and trying to fix it rather than trying to find that last 1/2 second.

Think about working corners at a Confrence race and then talking to us in the pits at the Saturday night BBQ. We (racers) can give you all sorts of insite on this addiction oh damm "hobbie". We have race at PIR on Aug 27-28 and the next and last race of the season at Pacific is Oct 1-2

http://www.icscc.com/novice.html

http://www.icscc.com/schedule.html

http://www.icscc.com

Jon Bonforte
Group 2 EP #99
White 16V Golf

[ITC007]

Ryan,

My suggestion is this.

Start Autocrossing, That is the cheapest seat time and you can learn alot that will help you in the future as far as road racing goes. Alot of very nice people autocross and take it very seriously.

get involved with a local road course track and volunteer to flag or help with timing and scoring. There are a bunch of different things you can do to get involved and get in free to tracks. Then you can get to know the drivers, crew and personnel that run the race weekend. There is and infinate amount of knowledge you can get from watching and listning to these people.
Walk the track.
Learn what cars are competitive.
learn flags and paddock etiquette.
Figure out what equipment you will need to support your weekend.
Find out what people will help you.
Might even get a chance to crew for someone, that may help you out in the future with used equipment.
Lots more that I could go on and on about.

JOne other thing, Join the SCCA!!! You get a great magazine and discounts on events.

Good luck and keep the spirit. Dont rush into anything. Save about $3K more than what you expect to spend. I wanted to race cars from the day I was born, I started when I was 26. I love it.
You the man! ;)

[Ryan9118]

ddewhurst:
I live in Redmond right now. That I know of, Pacific Raceways is the closest track to me, as VW16 was saying. I'll check into the SCCA stuff. I almost bought myself a membership a few months back, but I wanted to see if it was going to do me any good before I put the money down. About the karting and trailers and so forth, I've thought about trying to buy myself a shifter kart and get into some racing there, just to get some early exposure, but I figure if I'm going to put down $2k-$3k for a kart, why not just save that for a car? I probably won't have too much of a problem with a trailer, as I think we might have one laying around somewhere. I have a tow vehicle (well, my daily driver right now), as long as I don't sell it to fund racing... :bash_1_:

VW16VRacer:
I actually checked out the ICSCC page a while ago, but I saw on the novice page somethin about havin to be 18 to race with them, so I kinda lost that idea. Does the novice class not have the 18 y.o. age limit? I think I'll try to come down to the next race you guys have down there. Any suggestions on what I need to do? Should I just get my admission, walk in, and find Bill Vine? If I wanted to work corners do I need to have anything special or can I just volunteer? I definitely think it would be fun to come down and check the whole thing out.

ITC007:
As soon as I get another car (hopefully soon!!!) I'm going to check out some local autocrosses. Like you said, I figure it's the cheapest thing I'm gonna get with my car, and it should be a good learning experience. Any racing is better than none, right? I'll keep all your suggestions in mind, as they all seem like perfectly good ideas. With the races that VW16 was talking about, all those might just happen soon.

[RSTPerformance]

Ryan-

for $5,000 - $10,000 you can build an ITC or ITB car that will win. I think that the prices to win go way up when you move into ITA and even way higher when you go into ITS. ITB is a great class, that where I started, and I was an ITA guy forever as thats what my father raced for 10 years when I was growing up... So anyway just wanted to add that into your mix...

A did notice that school should be your focus, but at the same time don't forget about racing... The time and effort required to make racing fun and successful cept me from getting into trouble, as you wont have anytime for that and school... Just make sure you balance the two of them and forget about all the other stuff ;)

Good Luck!!! have fun, and e-mail anytime you need help. My brother and I started at 18 and would have started sooner if the age limit back then was 16 like it is now!!!

Raymond "wow I am getting old!!!" Blethen

[VW16VRacer]

I think Confrence is still 18 for the Novice program. Another thing to think about is renting a car for the weekend. I know of a couple of 1st gen RX7's, a Miata and a very fast CRX for rent to run a novice weekend. That way for about a $1000 you will have one drivers training (friday) and a race weekend under your belt and would have a better undrestanding of whats involved. You do not have to be 18 to work corners to my knowlage so untill you reach 18, work corners, get to know the racers and then make a informed decision. :023: If nothing else come out on Saturday, watch the races and talk to some of us.

Jon

[Ryan9118]

Good news. Looks like I might've scored a 1980 VW Rabbit for free from a friend. Not the prettiest car, nor would it be my first choice, but a car is a car. I think the motor has somethin wrong with it. There's a small hole in the top of the intake manifold (maybe pencil width?) and they think the exhaust manifold is rotted out. However the car is really, really slow. Maybe all Rabbit's are this slow, or it just has to do with the motor? It's got somethin like 230k+ miles on it, so that's probably why. I've looked into some parts and I figure for now I'll figure out the motor problem and autocross it on weekends. From now until I turn 18 I'll either just use it as an autocross beater or slowly build it to specs for some sort of race series, that way I have a car waiting for me when I turn 18 and can start racing on real circuits.

Anybody know where I might be able to pick up a motor for a Rabbit for cheap? I've heard of the 16v transplants and motors from the GTI's and what not, but if you swap to a motor thats not the original stock motor doesn't it change the class you run in? I know it does in autocross but I was thinking that in most race series they required you to run the motor that came in the car as it was stock. How's that work?

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Aug 18 2005, 09:35 PM
Ryan-

for $5,000 - $10,000 you can build an ITC or ITB car that will win. I think that the prices to win go way up when you move into ITA and even way higher when you go into ITS. ITB is a great class, that where I started, and I was an ITA guy forever as thats what my father raced for 10 years when I was growing up... So anyway just wanted to add that into your mix...

A did notice that school should be your focus, but at the same time don't forget about racing... The time and effort required to make racing fun and successful cept me from getting into trouble, as you wont have anytime for that and school... Just make sure you balance the two of them and forget about all the other stuff ;)

Good Luck!!! have fun, and e-mail anytime you need help. My brother and I started at 18 and would have started sooner if the age limit back then was 16 like it is now!!!

Raymond "wow I am getting old!!!" Blethen

58612


Raymond,

Not to nit pick, but a winning ITC (let's not even talk ITB) car for a $5k build? I'm all for getting new people into the sport, but let's not set unreasonably low expectations for them. You can probably build a winning ITC car for $8k - $10k. I think the cost for a winning ITB car is definately on the North side of $10k. You really do have to put a value on time and donated help/parts, because not everyone has that available to them.

That being said, an early Rabbit is a great start for an ITC car. Loads of parts, and they're not a whole lot of money. Very popular car, so there's a lot of knowledge out there. I would suggest that you save your money on the professional school, and maybe consider buying someone's already built car. While you will learn a lot building a car, it will take you a lot longer to get on the track, and you will spend a lot more money. The generally accepted return rate for a built race car, is between $0.25 and $0.50 on the dollar. Which means you should be able to buy a car that cost $10k to build for between $2500 and $5000.

[ITC007]

I would suggest that you save your money on the professional school, and maybe consider buying someone's already built car. While you will learn a lot building a car, it will take you a lot longer to get on the track, and you will spend a lot more money. The generally accepted return rate for a built race car, is between $0.25 and $0.50 on the dollar. Which means you should be able to buy a car that cost $10k to build for between $2500 and $5000.

58923
[/quote]

I'm with you,
My brother and I started the same way and thought we would build a race car out of the car that we autocrossed. We kept saying we will get it done next year. Long and short of it, I bought a C car 4 years later!!! If you got the car for free, sell it and continue to save the money. It sounds like you will be dumping alot of time and money into this car. Plus for 3-4 hundred dollars you can get a civic that will be fun to drive and autox. I do not like working on a race car, I like racing a race car.

[JamesB]

Buy a built car if you really want to race. I did a buget for building an ITB golf and it was well over 8k to have a car ready to race. instead I bought a built car, and so far other then the cost of the car 2500, the motor 500, and random parts 700 the car is ready to race.

[zracre]

ITA Integra 2500 at buy here pay here lot...intake 89.95...chikara header 159.95...exhaust shop charge 125...ground control suspension (coil overs struts koni yellows and springs) 700.00 rea swaybar 139.95 roll cage/seat/harness/window net 2250 wheels 100 each (8 purchased) 800 hawk blue pads 125 goodrige brake lines 129.95 tune up stuff (t belt water pump valve cover gasket plugs wires cap rotor) 250 new tires (toyos approx 500 hoosiers approx 700) strut brace apc 39.95 clutch 350 misc fluids tape etc 50 for a grand total of $8909.75 build cost. I have since put in a quaiffe and freshened up gearbox (no 4:79 gear yet <_< ) and spent approximately 1000 on new cv axles, calipers and bits but the as built cost got the car on the track and a few wins under its belt...nice and reliable and fast with the stock motor and gearbox...

[Ralf]

You can download the rule book here. http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/2005...titionRules.pdf (http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/2005GeneralCompetitionRules.pdf)

[Ryan9118]

Ok, so what do you guys suggest I do with the Rabbit? It looks like some say sell it and some say use it. I think for now I&#39;ll use it for some auto-x and then decide what to do after that.

So I should look for a used race car? What class is best for rookies? ITC or ITB or what? I just don&#39;t wanna spend my hard-earned money on a used car and then have it be a real beater and spend the same amount just gettin it to run reliably.

What about the race schools? The only reason I looked at those is because they supposedly give you lots of experience, but I dono for sure. I just didn&#39;t wanna be the new guy out there holdin up the whole grid.

[Knestis]

Originally posted by Ryan9118@Aug 29 2005, 04:12 AM
Ok, so what do you guys suggest I do with the Rabbit?

I&#39;m going to be the wet blanket here. Having not listened to the advice that I&#39;m about to give, I&#39;m going to say it anyway.

Unless you have family money that is going to fund your effort, WAIT and don&#39;t start spending money on a racing car until you have completed whatever professional training (school, trade, whatever) and have a good job.

Let&#39;s assume for a minute that you not only want to START racing, you want to continue to do it for some time. If that&#39;s the case, if you have typical results on the path you are starting down, in 10 years you will have less money, less educational success (because you&#39;ll be playing with cars, rather than working on school), and won&#39;t be racing. If you decide what you are good at career-wise and pursue that full time, in 10 years you will be in a better financial position, will have completed a well-funded novice year, and will be set to continue racing for years to come.

If you absolutely MUST start sooner than that, open a savings account and start socking away all of the extra dough that you would have spent on parts. When you have enough to buy ALL of the stuff you need to go racing at once - complete, prepared car; trailer; tires; tools; all that stuff - do it. If you can&#39;t save enough to do that, you won&#39;t have spent enough to get out there ANYWAY - and you&#39;ll still have all of the cash that you would otherwise have wasted.

Whatever you do, do NOT put any racing expenses on a credit card that you aren&#39;t absolutely going to pay off at the end of the month. Do NOT fall for the trick of talking yourself into believing that you will "build it as you go," spending your discretionary money month-by-month. These two traps are the reason you can buy a $10K pile of parts for $3000, or a half-finished "project" that someone&#39;s spent $15,000 on for the same price.

People - we do NOT do ANYONE any good when we add up the major components of a racing car and tell people that&#39;s what it costs to go racing. I threw $200 away this weekend on incidental crap to go to the Rally Tennessee next week: A 17-year-old student cannot live that life. A "free" car is just a box - probably a rusty box - to put all of the parts into, that cost real money. If you find yourself doing that, please check and make sure that you aren&#39;t kidding yourself, too.

I kept very accurate records of my first year, returning to road racing after a 15+ year absence to get my career fixed, and determined that it costs upwards of $300 per track hour. How many hours can you buy, Ryan with the money you currently have in your bank account?

Kirk (who&#39;s really trying to help)

[planet6racing]

I&#39;m going to agree with Kirk here. And, I&#39;ll even add somethings that I learned:

1) Cut up all but one of your credit cards. Use it only to order parts, then pay it off immediately. If you have a Visa Check Card (or the MC equivalent), make that your primary card. No matter what, you do not want to go into debt doing this. If you cannot afford to pay cash for it, save your money until you can!

2) If you are going to build, write a budget for what you think it will take. Then, triple it. That is what it will really take. If you&#39;d like, I have all my expenditures from last year to show how I spent all my money to go to 3 double weekends and to the ARRC (yet still only have 3 finishes at the end of it all).

3) If you are going to buy, READ THE RULE BOOK!! Know that thing backwards and forwards. You&#39;ll be able to spot non-comformance pretty easily in most cases.

4) Write down your 5 and 10 year goals for your life, not just for racing. This is the easiest way to see any potential conflicts and will allow you to address them now. There hasn&#39;t been a time that I have been working on my car when I haven&#39;t used some of my engineering background to make sure things are right.

5) Probably the biggest thing: DO THINGS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! This has been the hardest lesson for me to learn, as it is easy to limp into something or cobble something together because it is cheaper. This is why I only had 3 finishes last year. Over the winter, I fixed things correctly and realized that, had I done it right the first time, I&#39;d be money ahead (on the order of almost 25-30%) and I wouldn&#39;t have been on my back, under the car, at the track.

Above all else, have fun! There will be some trying times (like when the transmission goes out, you order new parts, they won&#39;t come in until the Tuesday before the race, and you have to leave on Friday at 8:00am to make it to the race on time...) but when things are going well, it is a complete blast!

[Ryan9118]

Kirk,
Right now with the amount of money I have I could afford approximately.... no track hours! :023:

But seriously, after I finish my senior year this year, I think I&#39;m going to try and get to UTI in Arizona. I want to do their 51-week course and then transfer into the manufacturer specific training for Porsche. I figure if I can do that I should be set. Even if I&#39;m not making triple digits, that should be good wage. Not to mention getting to work with Porsche&#39;s or w/e it is I decide to work with. When it all gets broken down (like you did) the whole good life of racing seems to get quite a bit more hectic and needs more planning than originally thought.

Bill,
I just downloaded the rule book so I&#39;ll check that out and get familiar with some of the rules. As far as the short/long-term goals go, I pretty much have my 5-year goal set. 10 years though, who knows. Alot can change in 10 years. I want to do things right the first time, however it seems like doing it right costs lots of money in most cases. Gotta have the car, the parts in the car, back-up&#39;s, transportation, gas, extra parts, etc, etc, correct? Not sure I can swing all that right about now.. haha.



So I guess for now it looks like I&#39;ll keep the racing on the "backburner" so to speak. Obviously I&#39;m going to keep wanting to do it, but maybe for now I&#39;ll stack my riches and autocross to pass the time. That way when I graduate or in 2 years time or w/e, I should have a relatively good money fund and also some track time under my belt. Of course I&#39;d like to start now, but things can&#39;t always go my way... :rolleyes: Anyways, thanks again for the advice guys.

[dickita15]

Ryan,

The old guys are right even the news is no fun. Maybe you should not be driving a race car yet. But the good news. Come to the track. volunteer to be a corner worker or a tech worker or find a team in your area that you hit it off with. you can be around the sport pretty cheap. I flagged for a long time before I went to drivers school. I camped at the track. the cost of a weekend was a case of beer and a tank of gas and when I finally started driving I had a big leg up because I knew the culture.

[Z3_GoCar]

It&#39;s true, it takes money to race; however, there are other options if it&#39;s what you are passionit about. When I raced Karts I meet a recent graduate of Skip Barber&#39;s mechanic school, he let me into a local kart club so I could run some laps and work on set up. He&#39;d just graduated and had finished well in the staff race series. His name is Memo Gidley. There are driver development programs but you have to look for them and find a way to pay for them. You need to start at your age, I was in my twenties and it was too late for me. Also a degree is the way to go, the best is a mechanical engineering degree. You need something to move you to make you work like you&#39;ve never worked before. Don&#39;t settle for the technician job, you&#39;ll wind up working to make ends meet and not on getting to where you can have the time and cash to participate. If you don&#39;t have the skills for a degree, work your community college and take it for all it can offer to transfer to a good university. We&#39;ve got the Formula SAE here and they&#39;re always looking for students to help. Good luck, don&#39;t forget your dream, you just need to find a way to reach your goal.

James

[Ryan9118]

Well see, in Washington here we have a program called Running Start. How it works is while you&#39;re in high school you take classes through a local community college. The classes count for high school credits and college credits which basically allows you to get a head start on college, hence the name. Since I already did one full year and this year will be my 2nd, I should get my high school diploma and my 2-year in college (Associates or w/e the name is, I can&#39;t remember). So as long as everything goes to plan I would be 17 and graduated, with a 2 year. Like you were saying James, I want to start now and get going before it&#39;s &#39;too late&#39; for me. Of course like everyone else my dream would be to make it to some sort of professional racing league. Whether it&#39;s FIA GT, ALMS, Speed GT, WRC, or F1 I don&#39;t really care. But with the age that people are starting out now, I think the only way is to get started in racing ASAP. Hell, some of the pro drivers out there now are my age or younger.

[planet6racing]

You know, karting is a great option, come to think of it. My dad has started it recently and I&#39;m surprised by how much cheaper those little things are. He keeps trying to get me into it, and the more I work on my car, the more tempting it is!!

I also second the whole "Go to the track and volunteer" thing. Since I&#39;ve started racing, I&#39;ve learned more by volunteering than I have on track.

Don&#39;t let us "old guys" scare you away. We just want to make sure that, when you do get into it, you can do it comfortably and enjoy it.

[zracre]

Actually at your age Karting would be the best way to tune your skills...I dont know about cheaper though...Last year I bought a CRG Rotax Kart and did a few races and I had about 6 grand into it...the young &#39;uns had at least that plus...but at your age you may get more recognition and possible sponsorship if you end up being fast...people are looking for drivers of your age now more than any of us old folks...just a thought.

[JamesB]

well you dont have to get into Karting at that cost. I know others who got in with full gear for about 4 total. It is a good way to start out and get some driving skill. Otherwise, like others said, at your age and unless you have lots of money in the bank, worry about school, college and career before you go full on racing. Start with PDE events, something you can do with a street car to hone yoru driving skills.

[zracre]

yes but I found the entry fees to be close to regionals and tires/sprockets/axles/steering columns etc to be about the same cost per weekend as a regional when you spread it out over time...the best deal i ever had was my ITB GTI (Rabbit) I bought for 2500 at the ARRC in 99. I just raced the wheels off of it and the replacement/maintenance costs were minimal...Toyos last almost indefinitely on that car!! I reccomend hondas for their competitiveness out of the box as a street car but a well used Rabbit GTI someone already did the hard things to would be a great option for a new racer too. And they seem to still do well in regionals

[Bildon]

Here&#39;s another idea...
You could do what I did to help you along the way. While in college I went to work for local racer, Leitzinger Racing. Learned more in 2 years of IMSA racing that I would have in a decade at SCCA races. I swept floors, cleaned transporters and worked my way up to fabricating, machinist and regular tire guy/fueler on the road. I even got be Butch&#39;s "crewchief" during test days with his IMSA Int&#39;l sedan (like World Challenge).

... anyway the point is that there are plenty of race teams around that can always use cheap help. You can usually use the shop resources after hours to cheaply build your car and you may even get the other crew guys interested in your project. We had guys in the shop who built cages in their sleep and could port heads with their eyes closed :D It doesn&#39;t matter what kind of racing team it is either... a circle track team can teach you as much as a road race team. And they all have great shop resources.

I will agree strongly with one thing... don&#39;t be tempted to build a car on a credit card. I did this once a long time ago and it was dumb. I was fortunate that I was able to dig out by renting the car in enduros but I&#39;ve seen others do this and crash the car in the first season.... bad bad idea.

[Daryl DeArman]

You&#39;ve received, what I consider to be lots of great advice!

This next part isn&#39;t going to be too popular on this site but here it goes anyway. Don&#39;t get involved in IT racing if you have any desire to do this for a living. Yes, once in a while someone makes it, but once in a while a man bites a dog. IT is a GREAT place for hobbyists who love the sport and the competition, but should not be part of your game plan.

Get in a KART to get good seat time and racing lessons...cheap(er). Unless the shifter classes are still big up there, don&#39;t do it. Yes they are fast and sexy but you need to race in a class where you can afford to have great equipment and the field/tallent pool is deep. The TaG classes are almost as fast. I have a buddy with a 2005 Margay Rotax, it is a lot of kart and it is probably too much $$$ and kart for a novice. If you are not sure the kart thing is the route for you go to a karting school such as JHR and try it first. If you think it is too slow, you have only &#39;wasted&#39; less than $500. If you come away thinking I could do this you will be miles ahead.

While you are karting and going to school, volunteer at a shop somewhere. The experience you gain will be very valuable!

[Ryan9118]

Geez so much new advice! :023:


The more you talk about karts the more I think I should look into it. That would be pretty fine because my dad also wants to get into karts. I&#39;ve heard of the Rotax carts or w/e they are and the shifter karts, but I&#39;m not sure which would be better. There&#39;s a local kart club around here, so I&#39;ll have to check them out for info. I&#39;d like to find a race shop to volunteer at around here like you guys were saying, but I don&#39;t really know of any. Maybe I&#39;ll just have to open up the phone book and get off my ass? :o

[Daryl DeArman]

Pops would support the karting and would also like to get involved?!?!?!

What in the heck are you waiting for? Wish I didn&#39;t wait until I was 21 to start racing....

You and Pops go check out a kart race. While there talk to a couple of kart shop owners. Ask if you can help out with menial tasksat the shop after school, on race weekends, test days for a break on parts/tires/labor and get your butt out there.

[gran racing]

I don’t think that Raymond is so far off with his estimate of a car that could win with a good driver with some experience. Maybe not for $5,000 but $8,000 yes – I’d take that bet any day. Do choose your car carefully because no matter how good you are, you are not going to win ITS with a Yugo.

Ryan, racing does take a lot of work and time. When you’re pushing an older car to its limits and sometimes beyond, stuff happens. It isn’t a matter of if something will brake but when. The good news is it is your racecar and you don’t need to fix it to get to work/school for the next day. This comes up quite often – “You really do have to put a value on time.” Well, that’s true up to a point. Like I said, racing will consume a good amount of time working on the car as well as yourself. But at the same point, what hobby doesn’t? I used to be really into basketball in part because it is cheap. That is until you consider the hours I used to spend practicing free throws and other various shots. I also used to read books on basketball and watched games on t.v. to learn as much as I could. Based on some people’s beliefs, basketball would have been a very expensive sport for me. Yeah, I get the general idea of what they’re saying but hopefully you’d be spending your time on the racing hobby because you enjoy it.

With the Rabbit, bring the car to some high performance driving events. Spending money on yourself will reduce your lap times then spending it on the car. Take you time finding a racecar. The best finds are often ones you hear about from talking to people at the track. Many times these cars are not even advertised.

My advice is don’t wait too long before you start getting involved. Even if that simply means doing a couple of autocrosses, two HPDEs the first year, and attending as many races as you can. Take advantage of the carting opportunity! You’re crazy if you don’t esp. with your father being interested. I used to have a go cart and raced it around the woods in my parents back yard with some friends. We had friendly competition on who could get the best lap times. That was a blast!

[greghuston]

Ryan,

There&#39;s a lot of good advice on here and I&#39;m probably echoing what most folks have said. I got into the racing world like Bill (Bildon), I went to college in Daytona Beach and there were 2 race shops right near where I lived. They both moved into their building about my sophmore year. 1 build VWs for IT racing and the other was a Grand-Am team. I used to stop in and bull shit with Stu and buy parts for my Scirocco that was set-up for Auto-X and I was trying to resurect. I quickly learned any Racing is Expensive! I eventually went to work for Stu Full Time after I graduated college and couldn&#39;t find a real job, I also got to know Troy and the guys over at Flis (Grand-Am spirit of daytona) pretty well too. I learned A LOT about racing, and eventually was doing just about everything in the shop except for Suspension Set-ups (Geoff Thompson the master) and Building the Motors (all Stu) I did dissassmble clean, a lot of them though.

Through hard work and enthusiasm I eventually got some seat time behind the wheel of one of the Miatas which was awesome. I was able to use the shop to do any work on my car (VW at the time) and got parts for cost. This was a nice help. I realized though that car racing was expensive and even if I found a tired old IT car on eBay or here, it might be a headache chasing down problems etc, and building one would probably be between 6-$8,000 (now that doing everything myself and getting good deals etc). Now I couldn&#39;t even afford a Kart on the salary I was paid there. But I now work for Lockheed Martin and bought my self a Kart. My Kart is an HPV 100cc on a BRM Chassis. This is a great class to get started in, KT100 is also really popular and cheap. The HPV motor is more powerful, and goes longer between rebuilds than the KT100. Rotax or Tag classes are expensive and not generally a beginners class. And a competitive shifter Kart is going to cost you as much as an ITC car if not more (Price of the Kart, and running it). Check out a website called http://www.ekartingnews.com/ it&#39;s about the best place to get info on Karting.

I also have a Miata that&#39;s set up to run Auto-X and track days, but isn&#39;t a full on dedicated Road Racing car. I picked it up for $2950 with KONI Yellows, RB Sway Bars, BBS wheels, SoloII rated Roll Bar and a Hard top. Lapping days are more fun than an Auto-X, and a lot cheaper than IT. Track Days and Karting also don&#39;t have nearly as high of an entry fee as a Club race weekend.

[Ryan9118]

Yeah I ended up gettin that Rabbit and autocrossed it the weekend after I got it. Right now it&#39;s a little rough though. The motor&#39;s running on 60 PSI of compression on two cylinders and 40 in the other two. Managed to get it on 3 wheels a few times according to my dad watching. That was my goal for the day because the kid I got it from said it couldn&#39;t be done. Anyways I&#39;m looking for a motor for it now, and I might have one lined up. After that I&#39;m thinking about some new wheels/tires, suspension mods, exhaust, and maybe stripping some of it out. I&#39;ll probably use it for autocross and track days (if I can find any..) The only place I know of that does track days is Pacific Raceways I think, but to be honest I haven&#39;t looked much. I think you need to be 18 anyways.

I haven&#39;t even thought about the karting lately. Right now it&#39;s probably not really worth it to mention it because I know we couldn&#39;t afford one now. And besides, if we had enough money to buy a kart, I&#39;d rather that money goes into the car. :023: I go to Traxx in Mukilteo and race quite a bit though. Fun stuff and relatively cheap. Other than that, racing games keep me occupied.