Top 5 cars

[qtc3]

Hi, I'm really interested in racing IT but I'm still rather overwhelmed with information since I've never raced before. I've come to the conclusion that I want a pre-built car and that I'll shoot for ITC, ITB or possibly ITA. I've looked at an MR2 but since I'm not the thinnest guy I'm worried about weight issues.

What I'd like to know is what are your top 5 car choices for each of these classes when it comes to competitiveness? What about cost and parts availability? Also, which cars would be best for a guy carrying a bit of extra weight already?

Thanks for any information!

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by qtc3@Aug 13 2005, 07:35 PM
Hi, I'm really interested in racing IT but I'm still rather overwhelmed with information since I've never raced before. I've come to the conclusion that I want a pre-built car and that I'll shoot for ITC, ITB or possibly ITA. I've looked at an MR2 but since I'm not the thinnest guy I'm worried about weight issues.

What I'd like to know is what are your top 5 car choices for each of these classes when it comes to competitiveness? What about cost and parts availability? Also, which cars would be best for a guy carrying a bit of extra weight already?

Thanks for any information!

58349


Pretty easy. Honda, Honda, Honda

[Andy Bettencourt]

If you are carrying a bit of extra weight...I would think that the more powerful cars of ITA or maybe ITB would be the best choice. Some considerations:

ITA: Integra, 240SX (powerful) CRX, Miata (lighter - nimble)
ITB: Volvo, Audi GT (powerful) CRX, Civic, Golf/Rabbit (lighter - nimble)

Talk to the racers in your area about making weight on these cars.

Andy

[ITAMiata]

In ITA, if you are concerned about making weight, I would look at the Nissan 240. However, I run an ITA Miata was was 80 lbs overweight in my last car (it met a tree and now I'm making a new one) and I was about .7 seconds off the track records, which btw is Brett de Pedro's in his ITA Miata. The Miata is a handling car, while the 240 and CRX are stronger in a straight line. The CRX is actually lighter then the Miata though, and like the Miata, getting down to the minimum weight could be equally hard for you.

Bill

[dickita15]

This is a good question but I think for a new guy there are some other questions you need to answer. do you car about which wheels drive. what teracks would you be racing on most. how tight will you budget be.
for a new guy I would run a car that others are running in your area. being able to borrow a part or ask for set up advice is a huge advantage for a new guy. I would go to the track talk to others and consider a car that is being run by people who are willing to answer your questions.

of course in ITA the cars are dominate
integra
crx
nissan 240
miata

new to class with what looks like a good chance
nissan ser
neon

of course I like my 1st gen rx7. one you learn the suspension it is fun and cheap but it can not win anymore.

[qtc3]

Originally posted by dickita15@Aug 14 2005, 05:28 AM
This is a good question but I think for a new guy there are some other questions you need to answer. do you car about which wheels drive. what teracks would you be racing on most. how tight will you budget be.
for a new guy I would run a car that others are running in your area. being able to borrow a part or ask for set up advice is a huge advantage for a new guy. I would go to the track talk to others and consider a car that is being run by people who are willing to answer your questions.

of course in ITA the cars are dominate
integra
crx
nissan 240
miata

new to class with what looks like a good chance
nissan ser
neon

of course I like my 1st gen rx7. one you learn the suspension it is fun and cheap but it can not win anymore.

58356


Well, I'm comfortable with either FWD or RWD, I live near Detroit which is home to Waterford Hills which I've heard is a tighter track. I plan on attending the next race there to look at the cars and talk to the drivers.

This isn't an "I'm going to buy a car tomorrow" type post, more of a "When I go to the track which cars should I focus on more" type post. I'm a pretty researchy kind of guy and I just want to have some idea of what cars tend towards my needs while I do the research. My plan is to go to several races at a variety of venues near me before the season ends, talk to a bunch of people and learn as much as possible and then over the winter keep my eyes open for a car. If I find something which completely fits all my criteria over the winter then I might buy it, but probably I'll end up spending next summer going to more races and talking to more people so as to refine my car choice.

As to budget, I'd like to spend no more than $4000 on the car and safety equipment because I want to save the rest of my budget for the inevitable extra costs of the first season. That way I'd have a couple grand left for all the stuff which is going to fall apart on a car someone is selling.

I was shooting for ITC because I figured costs would be a bit lower, but it looks like ITB or more likely ITA are more reasonable for a heavy guy.

[924Guy]

Well, be sure to stop by next race and say hi!

[Andy Bettencourt]

While I understand you have bugetary limitations...$4K is ITC and MAYBE ITB territory.

AB

[qtc3]

Hi Vaughn, I'll definately drop by, from your webpage it looks like I'll find you in the winners circle!

Andy, I guess I'll be rethinking my budget, I've got time to figure it all out though so I figure a point in my favor is that sinced I'm not rushed I can just watch for deals as I go along.

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by qtc3@Aug 13 2005, 07:35 PM
I've looked at an MR2 but since I'm not the thinnest guy I'm worried about weight issues.

What I'd like to know is what are your top 5 car choices for each of these classes when it comes to competitiveness? What about cost and parts availability? Also, which cars would be best for a guy carrying a bit of extra weight already?

Thanks for any information!

58349


When I think of big guys racing, the Briggen brothers immediately come to mind. I remember one time someone (who weighs over 200#) borrowed Bill's ITB Rabbit. They forgot about the weight thing, and got DQ'd for being over 100# underweight. ;)

ITA weight in a MR2? Properly constructed, it will handle ~260# of driver package and still be at weight - but that is with a lot of expensive stuff. I weigh ~190#, and have to run 70# of ballast.

[OTLimit]

Originally posted by ITANorm@Aug 14 2005, 03:38 PM
When I think of big guys racing, the Briggen brothers immediately come to mind. I remember one time someone (who weighs over 200#) borrowed Bill's ITB Rabbit. They forgot about the weight thing, and got DQ'd for being over 100# underweight. ;)

I know who that was!!!

[Nigel Stu]

Originally posted by qtc3@Aug 14 2005, 07:10 PM
Well, I'm comfortable with either FWD or RWD, I live near Detroit which is home to Waterford Hills which I've heard is a tighter track. I plan on attending the next race there to look at the cars and talk to the drivers.

...

I was shooting for ITC because I figured costs would be a bit lower, but it looks like ITB or more likely ITA are more reasonable for a heavy guy.

58366



Cool, another possible ITC guy out at Waterford!
While you might not find me in the winners circle (yet...), you can find me pitting with 1/3 of the ITC field at WHRRI, along with an ITS RX7, possibly an ITD festiva or a GTL Datsun, and right down the row from another couple of ITC Civics (and Vaughn another spot over). Look us up and we can help answer questions and show you around.

by the way - is there a name for us all to match to GTC3?

Ben Schaut
Datsun 510 #68

[Z3_GoCar]

Welcome GTC 3,

I'm in a similar position in that I've been considering what car to run. One thing I look at is: are there other venues that you can race in? One of my cars of choice, which I'm currently autocrossing but would rather not gut it, is a BMW. Now granted the Z3 is not the most competitive car, but there is racing experience out there I can draw from and also I'd have BMW club racing to get some experience from. Another option I'm considering is a more affordable car and is one of the top cars in ITA, and that's the Miata. With the Miata I can also race spec-miata races, tonns of racing experience, and here's a benifit you'll find in few of the choices. You can get one as a rental. So even if I did decide to go with the Z3, I could rent a miata and work in the high speed driving that I can't get in autocross, and I also get to know the competition :P On the other hand I might just stay with a miata, their cool too. Have you been doing any performance driving? Remember, the nut behind the wheel needs to be the first thing tightened ;) Autocrossing, HPDE, and finially competiton schools all lead to basic competency and maybe more depeding on you attitude about what you can learn, and I know I'm just scratching the surface with what I've learned. If you're having fun and are open minded about what you can learn, you will do well :023:

James

[zracre]

If you are comfy with front drive, go with an integra...fast and easy to drive...the motor in stock trim is more than sufficient for most races and the reliability is, well, honda. It is also a large car so driver fitment is not an issue...If i dont run pads on my seat i cant see over the dash!! Cheap and in a buy here pay here near you!!!

[qtc3]

Its Seth Koster and thanks for the invite! I'll definately drop by and say hi, though be prepared for a proper brain-picking! :D Hopefully I'll narrow my choices down after I talk to you all. I haven't done any performance driving since I was young and that wasn't what one would call legal, though I did spend a lot of time on ATVs and dirt bikes 15 - 20 years ago.

EDIT:

Thats the second time I've read Integra, and I just saw one for sale on the Waterford forums. Hopefully the owner will be at Waterford so I can have a look at it and ask him some questions. Though if an MR2 can take a 260lb guy maybe I shouldn't be as concerned as I have been about weight.

[gran racing]

Hi Seth,

When you go to the track, take a look at how large the various fields are. In the N.E., there are only about 5 ITC cars at an event compared to 25 plus ITA cars. The more cars in the class the better at least in my opinion.

ITA – the Integra is a nice car. The neon could also be interesting.
ITB – it might be tough to find a pre-built one, but the Accord Lxi and Audi are very appealing.

If you go with an MR2, be careful of which year you get as there are weight differences. Jake F. has an MR2 and can not get down to the minimum weight and he is not a big guy.

One other thing you should keep in mind when looking at cars is how much each car will cost to continue racing it. For example: my Prelude is pretty hard on tires and if I can get three race weekends on a set of tires I’m happy. On the other hand, (at least with Jake’s) the MR2 can go on, and on, an on with the same set of tires.

No matter what car you choose, I’m sure you’ll have a blast!

[Jiveslug]

Hola, welcome to the mad obsession that is grassroots road racing. Heh. Ive been a lurker/poster here for about 4 years now and am just NOW beginning my racer project, which, if all goes well, I should finally be buying the donor car tomorrow. Granted, Im taking it from a bit of a different angle in that Im building my car. I know, it goes against all of the advice I have heard from others, but then, Im mentally unbalanced.... just ask anyone on here. :023: Its a really good idea to head out to the track and talk to folks, so go for it. Ive done that a couple of times and have found it to be extremely helpful. Not only do you get lots of good info, but you get to start building relationships with your soon-to-be fellow racers. Here is a few things that Ive come across in my research over the past several years:

1. Its usually better to go with a car that has lots of people who run it and has aftermarket support. Helps you solve any problems that may come up and makes getting to the track easier. Granted, Im not following this advice either. Heh.

2. Im a big guy too, so take your size into consideration when getting the car. Im not so much talking about weight as I am about if you will actually fit in the thing with a helmet and roll cage. The car Im looking to buy is a little short on headroom from the factory, but that is more of a function of a thick headliner and seats that are mounted high in the cabin. Should be fine when I build it into a racer.

3. Ive decided that buying a car that has a proven record of reliablility is a good thing, especially when starting out. This has two major effects on your racing. The first is that you will spend less time fixing the car and more time driving it, and the second is that it will be cheaper to race it because you wont always be buying parts.

4. The less exotic, the better. Ties into #3 because the less exotic the car, when you DO break something, parts will be easier to find and they will be cheaper.

5. When you finally buy your racer, I would take it to a few track days and autocrosses even before you take to a regional. That way you get a good idea of what the car handles like and what its strengths and weaknesses are. The sooner you familiarize yourself with the car, the easier and safer it will be for you to drive.

As far as class goes, I decided on ITB as the best compromise between cost/performance/competition. The cars are not as high-tech as the A and S cars, and they dont eat up as many consumables because of their slower speed. Both of these factors make A and S cars more expensive to run. The B cars are not slow, so they are a good compromise between C and A in performance (in my region, the Bs can usually keep up with the Spec Miatas). While there may not be as many Bs in your region as As, there will be more Bs than Cs, so that will give you some good competition. Finally, since there are a lot of different cars that can be competitive in B, I think its the most diverse field you will find.

Im sure there are a few other things I could throw on here, but I dont want to be writing War and Peace. Hope some of this helps!

Jive

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by OTLimit@Aug 15 2005, 12:32 AM
I know who that was!!!

58374


I was trying to be discrete. B)

[ITC007]

What's up Nigel Stu!!

Hey qtc 3,

I also race in the Improved Touring C class. ITC is a great class and a fun way to learn the track without having an overly twitchy car.
You know what your budget is but what I would be looking at is bang for your buck.
You can get a car that is cheap but spend all your time in the back of the field, or you can spend a little more money on a certain classed car that is proven to be a front runner so that eventually the driver will be up to speed and be fighting in the front for the win. If you are going to race get a proven front runner or a car capable of running up front. if it isnt a front runner then be prepared to spend lots of $$$$$ to get it up to pace.
Look me up at Waterford, I have a silver civic with yellow checkers. #12.
The C field at waterford is as good as it has been in a long time with alot of good compition.

Devin

[R2 Racing]

Originally posted by ITAMiata@Aug 13 2005, 10:34 PM
The Miata is a handling car, while the 240 and CRX are stronger in a straight line.
58354


Whoa, did you just refer to the CRX has a "power" car in ITA? The 240 and the Integra are stronger in a straight line. The CRX is a very, very good balance between power and handleing.


You said you weigh about 260lbs. Well, ask anyone who's met me and they'll tell you I've got you beat. :smilie_pokal: Anyway, I've been through two ITC cars with success in each of them and I'm now onto my ITA Integra. I can honestly say that I've never had to add ballast to any car I've driven but I don't think it's hindered me too bad. Personally, I wouldn't worry about being able to get down to weight too much when chosing your car. Just make sure you're in a Honda! :023:

[RSTPerformance]

IMO if I was selecting a car to race in the future I would probably look at the last 2-3 years of results from the ARRC. see what cars are on top. Then compair those to any new additions to the class over the past 2 years. If the car has been eligable and not winning for 3 or more years then thier are a couple issues. Lack of knowledge or ability to win. if you are looking for less of a challenge race somehting that has already been proven and has resources.

If you are looking for the challenge above and beyone winning then choose an oddball that you do research on and think could win (thats what we did)!!! The research end will take up more time that the racing and probably even more time then the prep, so be prepaired...

ITA: Integra, 240, CRX, Neon or a Ford Capri just for fun!!!
ITB: AUDI, Volvo, Opel GT, Alfa spider, Omni, Swift, VW Golf (for endurance races) or a million others... you could even be pro active and hope that the MR2 and the RX7 get reclassed someday...

Good Luck, and if you think about the Audi, give me a call ;)

Raymond