Anyone Running an ITA BMW?

[Z3_GoCar]

I'm interested in running a BMW for ITA. I'd originally thought it'd be cool to run a Z3, but I'm open to running a closed top car too, like maybe an e36 318. So as a total nube, well except for my Kart racing and autoxing experience, I was wondering about cost, competitiveness, and also the recent threads on contact concern me:blink: . BTW, I'd be in the SouthernPacific region, mainly Buttonwillow and WillowSprings. I'd also thought I'd attend some BMWCCA events too. Thanks for any insight.

James

[JamesB]

James,

I suggest downloading the CSR and the IT rules from the SCCA website and reading them many many many times.

http://www.scca.org/Club/Index.asp?IdS=018...E0&x=030|057&~= (http://www.scca.org/Club/Index.asp?IdS=018FF9-A29E8E0&x=030|057&~=)

I don't know about the competitivness of the 318 in ITA, I don't see too many out there. Also you come down into the build vs. buy. I can say this, even having to buy a trailer, so far its cost me 1/3rd of what it would have cost me to build a fresh car. If your new to this look at buying a prepped car instead of building. Once you know what your doing (which I eventually hope to reach that goal.) Then you can build a car.

[Guest_BMW RACER_*]

James.

1/ Search around this site for discussions on buying vs building, buying a good car is the way to go.

2/ In my opinion there really isn't much BMW wise that can beat the Hondas in ITA. Look at CalClubs web site for track records, ITA is not much slower than ITS! Look at the times Bernardo Martinez turns vs my times.

3/ Welcome to SoPac. That's my region, if there is anything I can do to help, drop me a line. At [email protected]

Good luck.
John Norris
ITS BMW #07

[Z3_GoCar]

Thanks John and James,

I think I know the route I need to go. I've been thinking about a Miata, but the size of spec Miata fields.... kind of remind me of my Karting experience. I raced a muffler class for a little more than a season with spec tires, there were fields of 30 or 40 karts at each race very tight competitive class. I need to drive a car that's well sorted out as I'm the unkown quantity. Then maybe I can move on and race something a little less common. I have been looking at the IT rules from the SCCA website, I've just not been able to find results to compare finishes, thanks for the lead.

James

[JamesB]

Well if you still want a Miata and not the SM field you could always go the route of an ITA miata, they have been doing really well in that class.

[Doc Bro]

James,
There are 2 ITA Z3's in the NER.... I'm one of them. The car is at a disadvantage as is the 318 because of weight (BMW ITS fear)to RWHP. Because it is a newly classed car it is not as developed as the Hond-uras. Playing to its strengths...awesome breaks and has a great suspension right out of the box so not much is needed to improve on what BMW did. You have to wonder what will happen to the Acuras as (through the grapevine) all cars will have to be reclassed at somepoint. Also if you look at the results I think there have only been 2 races won by nonHond-uras in NER this year ITA Miata- Glen, and 240-sx NHIS. This certainly gets you wondering about the future. I will also acknowledge that the guys who drive them are also great drivers. The other downside to the Z3 is that body parts are hard to find in boneyards, upside is that ALL bodypanels bolt on so if a quarter needs replacement you buy a NEW one online and bolt it on... no welding. I can say as a newbe (1st season this year) that whatever you elect to race the car will be better (much) than you. We've been developing the car and driver every race and have seen improvement..it's fun (first top ten in class this weekend). I am excited about the Z3 for its uniqueness and cool factor...and despite its weight I think it is a competitor in ITA. Probably not front row but it takes a special car and driver combination to be there. I wouldn't expect that...just have fun and go with a car you can be passionate about!!!

Rob Breault
96 BMW Z3 #36
NER

[Z3_GoCar]

Hey Rob,

I did e-mail Noam and he told me some of his set up, if I decided to go that way. I also talked to a Tom Bell, inventor of the Swing Set Carrier Roll bar. He races his 2.8 in BMWCCA J-Stock and his son is using a 1.9'er for DE's. I've also talked to many at our autoX about it. The consensis, and I'd tend to agree, is that I need to sort out my driving first. In this way I'm probably better off running a second hand car, like an ITA Miata, that has a successful history for the first season or two. Once I find my abilities then I can move on and build a unique car. I like the Z3 but I think you're right it needs less weight to really be competitive. I was told by Tom Bell that the rear e-30 type trailing arms and the short wheel base disadvantage his car compaired to the other e-36 varients in J stock. I was curious if this holds for the other shorter cars (like the Miata for example) in ITA. It may be a regional thing too, as I'll be running "The Fastest Asphalt In The West" :eclipsee_steering: I really appreciate your reply, it's given me hope that the Z3 may be reclassed in the near future. BTW, I also talked to TC-Kline about finding one of their former SSB cars, but I guess they've all found good homes and I don't see any of them for sale. I thought I'd pick up a rough streeter for about 5k this winter as the base for a new racer, as that seems the only route given no Z3 racers for sale. But now I'm leaning toward a used Miata racer.

James

[Doc Bro]

James I doubt that the Z3 will be reclassed as it was just classed under the new system. What I meant is that other cars that have not been classed under this system may be in the future to even the playing field. The points you made were good ones. The Miata in its current configuration has several homes. Realize though, that as SM becomes faster and more competetive you will see more Miatas spilling into other groups where these drivers will feel more of an advantage. The Miata and the Z3 are very similar on paper and on the track are VERY well matched. I would be cautious about going into a car that is usually run in a spec class and saying you are doing it for driver development. I feel that any car can be used for driver development. Get yourself a car, a data logger and work on consistency. When you can click off 10 laps at nearly the same time w or w/out traffic then start on your next piece of car development and see if you improve or not. You willl also learn what effects these parts have on the car. Do lots of test days too. IMHO
Buying a race car off the shelf will help, but when you reach your max potential you may not have the "learn by my mistakes" knowledge (regarding car tuning) to begin developing the car from that point forward. It's almost like starting from scratch again. Ya know what I mean?
Lots of guys use a bought, well developed car to go fast...it is a great way to make up for lack of skill too. I guarantee you if you took a street car and put the lap record holding ITA driver at your track he would still be faster than you or I. What my babble is getting at is the car is a small part of the equation. Whether you buy a developed car or one you develop yourself it will take several years to be up there if at all.
Rob

[lateapex911]

I saw some comments on the classing of BMWs vis a vis Hondas, etc.

Keep in mind guys that the IT world is a bit different in the PCA days that we are now in.

The ITAC is looking and considering a lot of things, so don't bet on the status quo being that way forever. Or, it could be, who knows, but lets hope there are some adjustments.

[zracre]

c'mon hasnt anyone seen mr deans 325e run in the se div?????

[Z3_GoCar]

Excuse my ignorance Mr. LA911, but what do you mean by PCA? I don't think it means Porsche Club of America :unsure: And what's this issue with a 325e? I understand that it has a 4k red line, unless it's not the efficiency modle I think it is. I out drove one at my last autocross.

James

[lateapex911]

PCA is the means by which IT cars are adjusted to obtain more equal classing.

In Prod they can adjust a number of variables, such as weight, carb venturis, cams and who knows what else, and it is done as often as they want to.

Historically IT has been a 'class it and forget it' category. So one car could get classed too light, and the entire class would be rendered obsolete overnight.

So..........a plan was sprung that allows rare changes to a cars as classed weight, or in rare cases, the use of a restrictor.

It would be a great idea to take a look at the different cars and make sure they are classed properly, BMWs included.

[zracre]

He holds the ITA track record at Daytona

[22timber]

What about the 318ti for ITA?

[Z3_GoCar]

What about the 318ti for ITA?

I don't know, but if the Z3 is classed heavy.....

'92-'94 e-36 318 2840 lbs
'90-'91 318i/is twin cam 2600 lbs
'95 318ti & club sport 2625 lbs
'96-'99 318ti sport 2750 lbs
'84-'87 325 e/es 2750 lbs
'96-'98 Z3 2675 lbs

I seem to remember that earlier this year the Z3 was classed at 2750 lbs, so it seems that they've been alowed to get lighter.

James

[Doc Bro]

Nope, it's always been 2675. It is a very easy weight to acheive too. I had to put the passenger seat back in after stripping the car to make weight. (not cool but it was a cheap fix! :P )
Rob

[Z3_GoCar]

Time to reanimate this thread :)

So I've had two people respond who race the 4 cylinder BMW's in ITA:

Rob Breault Z3 M44 in NER
and
Noam Levine Z3 M44 in NER

Anyone else? Anyone in the West?

James :bash_1_: An engineer not noted for his spelling :)

[nlevine]

Originally posted by Z3_GoCar@Sep 14 2005, 09:42 PM
Time to reanimate this thread :)

So I've had two people respond who race the 4 cylinder BMW's in ITA:

Rob Breault Z3 M44 in NER
and
Noem Levine Z3 M44 in NER

Anyone else? Anyone in the West?

James

60184

Just a minor spelling correction.. it's Noam.. :D

-noam

[Z3_GoCar]

Originally posted by nlevine@Sep 14 2005, 10:06 PM
Just a minor spelling correction.. it's Noam.. :D

-noam

60229


Thanks Noam, consider it changed. I've got two more to add to my list from BMW club racing:

Dave Uhyrek in an e-21
and
Richard Kuchman in an e-30

James

[Bill Miller]

What, nobody's building 2002 tii's?? :D :P

[Doc Bro]

Well... we had an awefully good showing at NHIS in the Z3 considering. I'm really starting to better understand the car. We are too heavy or others are too light (Acura's) but I do feel more strongly that the car has potential to be a consistent top 10 car. We have admittedly done little in developing the car as we had some computer gremlins for most of the season. I might reconsider my stance on the Z3 if I were you. It is a fun car. I'm also amazed at how responsive it is to tire pressure changes....I think that's where I was most off in my race prep...I just simply had my pressures way too high. MW makes a very solid and very reliable car it is a good starting point.
ps. Rookie season -about 12 races in and no DNF's. That says something about the car.
Good Luck
Rob

[Z3_GoCar]

Originally posted by Doc Bro@Sep 15 2005, 05:39 AM
I might reconsider my stance on the Z3 if I were you. It is a fun car.

Good Luck
Rob

60245


Well Rob, I have been reconsidering the Z3 since last week. I was actually ready to purchase a very competitive spec Miata. It's a sister car to the one that won the Pro Miata West, and the driver finishes top ten consistently. He was also willing to offer driver coaching with the car. All told it would have been a sweet deal, but my wife put the kybosch on it, and it would have been a lot of money right now. So basicly the timing is off, I'll probably buy a doner in November-January and start the build then. I need to earn some capitol of my own to start this project. Then I'll use the car the first season for DE's and licsensing, finish off the year with a few races, and hopefully an enduro. I never had any pretense of going to Nationals or sticking out a whole series. I just want a race now and then, and an occasional DE. Thanks for encourging me, I hope we can share set up info, maybe actually make these little wonders competitive.

James

[Doc Bro]

Best of luck james. I'll help with anything I can. Noam will to... he's a super guy. Let's collectively put these cars on the map! I was beginning to get discouraged BUT the major issue was me not necessarily the car. It's not easy to campaign a car if you've never done it before. Driving may be the easy part....it's relly kinda scary the amount of work and thought that goes into this hobby (read addiction)
Rob

[MIKEGTR]

I'm racing a 325es in ITA... anything i can tell you about the car let me know... i lost track of the thread i just read BMW and ITA... jejeje

Mike

[Marcus Miller]

It would be cool to see a Z3 in ITA here on the west coast. If nothing else, you coudl race with me in midpack ITA :023:

Who's SM were you going to buy? It was an off camber car?


Marcus

[Z3_GoCar]

Originally posted by MIKEGTR@Oct 8 2005, 06:27 PM
I'm racing a 325es in ITA... anything i can tell you about the car let me know... i lost track of the thread i just read BMW and ITA... jejeje

Mike

62117


Hey Mike,

Thanks for responding. I'll add you to my list:

Mike Storkson e-30 325es

Dave Uhyrek e-21

Richard Kuchman e-30

Mr. Dean e-30 325e

Noam Levine e-36 Z3

Rob Breault e-36 Z3

I started this list as I was looking for anyone who's racing a car with the M-44 engine. So far I've found my East Coast Z3 brothers :)

James

[Z3_GoCar]

Originally posted by Marcus Miller@Oct 8 2005, 11:44 PM
It would be cool to see a Z3 in ITA here on the west coast. If nothing else, you coudl race with me in midpack ITA :023:

Who's SM were you going to buy? It was an off camber car?
Marcus

62129



Hey Marcus,

I was all set to buy Peter Hsu's car, sister car to Justin Hall's winning car. Pete's been finishing top 10 all year long, so I know that his car is competitive with any other SM. Dave Mcanany invited me to come out after practice at the first SM challenge race at Infineon last month and that's when I met Peter and first learned about his car being for sale. In the end I've decided that the time frame for buying was just too soon for me, and besides I like the odd ball aspect of the Z3, although it can be a source of mental anguish too, like not being able to find .040 over pistons. In the end I'll gladly race mid pack, and trade door dings in the pits with you B)

James

[snowmann]

seeing as how supposedly our car has been reclassed to ITA I guess we run our e30 318is in ita now...

midwest, haven't run with SCCA yet, just council

[leggwork]

Bruce Mock in Denver has a 1992 or 93 318i in ITA
cheers,
(another) bruce



Originally posted by Z3_GoCar@Sep 14 2005, 09:42 PM
Time to reanimate this thread :)

So I've had two people respond who race the 4 cylinder BMW's in ITA:

Rob Breault Z3 M44 in NER
and
Noam Levine Z3 M44 in NER

Anyone else? Anyone in the West?

James :bash_1_: An engineer not noted for his spelling :)

60184

[Doc Bro]

I'm trying to find anyone who has built an m44 or m42 for a production class....the guys who get the real HP if anyone knows anybody.

FWIW Korman has done an m44 for a rally guy in central America......I'm going to start there unless anyone has any suggestions.
Rob