New door bar rule examples

[theenico]

Since we've been provided with these neat tech sub-forums, I thought it might be fun/educational for people to put up pics of their interpretations of "NASCAR" bars.

My old Scirocco:

Diver's side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsdb-01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsdb-05.jpg

Passenger side. Fortunately for whoever owns this car now, I put 2 bars over here when I built it in 2001.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/psdb-02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/psdb-06.jpg

[racer_tim]

1 question, why didn't you extend them into the "door" so you could remove the glass?

[theenico]

Originally posted by racer_tim@Aug 8 2005, 01:32 PM
1 question, why didn't you extend them into the "door" so you could remove the glass?

57984


In 2001, when I built the car, you could only gut the drivers side. That is why only the drivers side is gutted and the passeger side has the glass, door panel, etc. intact.

I would change the passenger side, but (as I mentioned above) I sold the car.

[Speed Raycer]

Hey Nico! Long Time!!!

Weren't you also Daily Driving the car as well?

[Marcus Miller]

one: http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc0...th_P7230135.JPG (http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc072404/th_P7230135.JPG)
two: http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc1...th_PICT0061.JPG (http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc110604/th_PICT0061.JPG)
three: http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc1...th_PICT0077.JPG (http://images.miller-motorsports.com/misc110604/th_PICT0077.JPG)

can't find shots of my passenger side right now.
Edit: found one! http://images.miller-motorsports.com/thill...04/P1010060.JPG (http://images.miller-motorsports.com/thill011704/P1010060.JPG)
My mother and Sister in lw will love these photos! :happy204:
Marcus

[theenico]

Originally posted by Speed Raycer@Aug 8 2005, 03:03 PM
Hey Nico! Long Time!!!

Weren't you also Daily Driving the car as well?

58000


I lost track of this thread...

I did drive it everyday for a while and always drove it to the track. I still have fond memories of driving to St. Louis, in October, wearing my ski mask
:ph34r:

[ITANorm]

Yo - Nico . . . do you still have all the img's of my suspension and the development photos on my cage?? If so, could you send 'em to me?

And are you still driving that damn Audi?? I figured that got rolled into a ball a long time ago!

:D

[ITANorm]

Oops - double post and can't delete. Sorry! :rolleyes:

[theenico]

Originally posted by ITANorm@Jan 7 2006, 11:30 PM
Yo - Nico . . . do you still have all the img's of my suspension and the development photos on my cage?? If so, could you send 'em to me?

And are you still driving that damn Audi?? I figured that got rolled into a ball a long time ago!

:D

70393


Pics are on the way.

Same Audi.

[RSTPerformance]

When are you gong to start racing an audi ;)

Raymond

[eMKay]

What is the new rule? I ask because the old rule said not to modify the stock side impact beam, but in my car the previous owner HAD to modify the stock side impact beam to fit the cage, It passed tech in his region (St. Louis region) But I'm a bit woried about my region.

(padding removed to mount new net)
http://www.ubrfvideo.com/eMKay/gti08.jpg

[theenico]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance+Jan 8 2006, 03:03 PM-->
When are you gong to start racing an audi ;)

Raymond

70415
[/b]

When a 4000 quattro gets classed. :rolleyes:

<!--QuoteBegin-eMKay@Jan 8 2006, 07:59 PM
What is the new rule? I ask because the old rule said not to modify the stock side impact beam, but in my car the previous owner HAD to modify the stock side impact beam to fit the cage, It passed tech in his region (St. Louis region) But I&#39;m a bit woried about my region.

(padding removed to mount new net)
http://www.ubrfvideo.com/eMKay/gti08.jpg

70426


New rules and old rules specifically say you can&#39;t modify/cut the side impact beam in IT period. I was able to damn near make the drivers side door bars touch the inside of the sheet metal door skin while making the upper bar go under the impact beam in the Scirocco. I attached a couple of pics.

Did you buy that Rabbit from a guy named Cameron something?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsdb-05.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsdb-07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsdb-06.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/theenico/dsmh-02.jpg

[eMKay]

Originally posted by theenico@Jan 9 2006, 01:06 AM


Did you buy that Rabbit from a guy named Cameron something?





Yeah.

[theenico]

Originally posted by eMKay@Jan 8 2006, 10:16 PM
Yeah.

70438


I thought that metallic blue looked familiar :)

[eMKay]

It&#39;s a nice car, just has a few issues that need to be resolved, the window net mounting for one, and the wiring. Do you think the door will pose a problem? I mean technically it&#39;s illegal, but this cage is really well done. It passed tech, it has a logbook.

[theenico]

I wouldn&#39;t protest you over it. If it were my car and I didn&#39;t have the means to easily fix it, I&#39;d paint the inside of the door black.

[ddewhurst]

***It passed tech in his region (St. Louis region) But I&#39;m a bit woried about my region.***

***I mean technically it&#39;s illegal, but this cage is really well done. It passed tech, it has a logbook.***

After reading shit like this I would protest your SCCA car just to make a point to the St louis Region, to who ever issued the log book & to the owner of the car. & then we all talk about CREEP & who beats who because they CHEAT.

The friken door beam is to be non modifyed for SAFETY reasons. Do ya cut holes in the side of your helmet so you can hear better ? :bash_1_:

[eMKay]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Jan 9 2006, 02:49 PM
***It passed tech in his region (St. Louis region) But I&#39;m a bit woried about my region.***

***I mean technically it&#39;s illegal, but this cage is really well done. It passed tech, it has a logbook.***

After reading shit like this I would protest your SCCA car just to make a point to the St louis Region, to who ever issued the log book & to the owner of the car. & then we all talk about CREEP & who beats who because they CHEAT.

The friken door beam is to be non modifyed for SAFETY reasons. Do ya cut holes in the side of your helmet so you can hear better ? :bash_1_:

70457



That&#39;s not all that was wrong, the car had ballast behind the front passenger seat mount, in the spare tire well, and ZIP TIED to the body just in front of the right rear wheel well. I don&#39;t think he did it to cheat, just didn&#39;t fully read the rulebook. I have spent last week looking for anything else wrong. So far I only found the window net, door beam, and ballast that was illegal.

I am considering getting another door and trying to make it fit somehow without modifying the beam...But I don&#39;t see how it&#39;s possible.

[Speed Raycer]

Definitely get yourself the new door, but save yourself the aggrivation and have a new doorbar installed. If it&#39;s a money issue, cut the old bar out yourself and then take it to a cage builder. About 2 hours worth of work.

[fairgentleman Z]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Jan 9 2006, 02:49 PM
Do ya cut holes in the side of your helmet so you can hear better ? :bash_1_:

70457


No, he uses his helmet as a wheel chock, then drives over it. :023:

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by eMKay@Jan 9 2006, 03:04 PM
...... I don&#39;t think he did it to cheat, just didn&#39;t fully read the rulebook. I have spent last week looking for anything else wrong. .......
70481



A subtle distinction.....

So we have an unsafe car that has been tweaked to be faster. What&#39;s that saying about being pregnant??

The door bar thing is a shame, as it is a bit of a pain to remedy, but it really has to be done. Line up the new door reinforcement beam with the new cage tube, and you should be good. But...look carefully for other things like too many mountings (6 plus the footwells)...seam welds, and so on. make sure the cage doesn&#39;t tie into the A pillars etc. Stuff like that is flagrant and easy to spot...better to catch it now.

I would be inclined when the chance arises to seek out a Steward (after you run a race or two to establish yourself as a good guy) and show him pictures and the officials sign off. The club really needs to be consistant from regiaon to region and racer to racer.

[Knestis]

I don&#39;t have a pic but I&#39;ve seen Spec Miati (OPM&#39;s I think) that had a really elegant solution. The upper door bar was above the beam, and the lower one below it, both right out at the doorskin. They were interconnected with short bars that were arc&#39;d to clear the beam.

K

[Bill Miller]

No. 1 prime example of what happens when someone buys a car before they read the rules. That&#39;s truly a shame though. The tech inspector that issued the logbook for that car should have his license pulled.

[JLawton]

It&#39;s VERY difficult to absorb EVERYTHING in the GCR, specially when you&#39;re looking at a model your are unfamiliar with (I can attest to this). Everytime I look at the GCR I see something I missed or intreprete it differentley the second time I read it.

Sometimes you have to rely on other people&#39;s word <shudder>

[Bill Miller]

Jeff,

I hear what you&#39;re saying, but if you really don&#39;t know much about the car you&#39;re buying, you really need to talk w/ someone else about it. Being an &#39;educated consumer&#39; is in your own best interest.

[burban]

as I can&#39;t see the image of the rabbit door bar, I really have a hard time, seeing how the 3-4 pounds of the door beam is a cheater tweak, that is going to make the car even .001 second a lap faster. and I hope nobody here has any beliefs that any early eighties car with door factory beams offer any semblance of side impact protection is kidding themselves, the ballast is a completly seperate issue and whether it was removed from the car. the number one rule for a cage is to provide occupant protection and the nascar cages do exactly that by adding the hard shell further away the driver.

[shwah]

Originally posted by burban@Jan 18 2006, 04:19 AM
as I can&#39;t see the image of the rabbit door bar, I really have a hard time, seeing how the 3-4 pounds of the door beam is a cheater tweak, that is going to make the car even .001 second a lap faster. and I hope nobody here has any beliefs that any early eighties car with door factory beams offer any semblance of side impact protection is kidding themselves, the ballast is a completly seperate issue and whether it was removed from the car. the number one rule for a cage is to provide occupant protection and the nascar cages do exactly that by adding the hard shell further away the driver.

71142

Its got nothing to do with whether the extra few pounds for one item make a difference. The door bars are one of a littany of items that can&#39;t be removed. I can argue that every item won&#39;t make much difference, but once I have 40 pounds of extra stuff off my car I will notice the difference.

The rules are what they are. Can&#39;t remove or modify them. Funny thing is that i talked to the guy with that Rabbit from STL and was trying to get one of my non-racing car freinds to use it as a beginner car. I never noticed this point in the photos. The feedback I got from freinds local to the car was that the cage was decent, and the car ready to go.

FWIW the door bars on an 80s VW are pretty effective. Not nearly as effective as the ones integrated into my cage. I just don&#39;t see how the effectiveness of the stock door bar has anything to do with the topic either.

Chris

[burban]

on the weight of the car, what does the scale in at is it at legal weight.
I haven&#39;t worked with rabbits lately but I believe the early cars 74-75 were sans side impact beams just run one of those doors, its a legitimate damge replacement part. If you were running national level of competition I could see a protest, but this is regional and unless that car&#39;s got a super hot fresh motor in it its not going to threaten the front runners

[Speed Raycer]

Originally posted by burban@Jan 18 2006, 03:13 PM
If you were running national level of competition I could see a protest, but this is regional and unless that car&#39;s got a super hot fresh motor in it its not going to threaten the front runners

71185


LOL... You&#39;re new here aren&#39;t you. Better dig in and find a hard hat :bash_1_:

;)

[burban]

no, not new just haven&#39;t been around since I got rid of my IT cars, and I couldn&#39;t remember what my damn login and password used to be.

just, some of it seems pretty petty that people would protest a new guy especially since I believe this guy bought the car as an inexpensive entry to get into racing. Its got a logbook, and the tech inspection pass and the cage is safe.

[zracre]

I agree...let it run...but it should be noted in the logbook that it needs to be adressed before its next annual...just a suggestion. By that time there will be plenty of experience under the belt and time to fix it. Just have new door bars installed...not too hard for a cage builder and shouldnt be too bad on the wallet.

[ddewhurst]

Posted by burban

***no, not new just haven&#39;t been around since I got rid of my IT cars,***

Posted by Evan

***By that time there will be plenty of experience under the belt***

Number one, WE have rules.

Number two, burban in the past sold his it cars, he knows WE have rules.

Number three, when someone shows me they do not meet the rule with something open & viasual I say to myself what do they have that I don&#39;t see.

Number four, one race allowed, note in log book & fixed to rule by next race.

[eMKay]

I have been through the car thoroughly now, and didn&#39;t find any more rule violations, as for Ballast, it&#39;s been removed and will be put in the proper place (over 110lbs!). I fixed the window net, and am working on a proper seat mount. As for the door beam, I&#39;m not doing anything with that for now, this is a starter car for me, and I doubt I&#39;ll be winning any races and getting protested. As for safety I had the cage looked at by a few experienced racers and it was deemed much safer than the majority of cages out there, it really is a well done cage. As for the car passing it&#39;s original tech and being issued a logbook, I believe tech inspectors are concerned with safety, and not class specific rules right?

[dickita15]

well the door beam is a safety item. if the tech inspector notices it he will make you fix it. hopefully it will be a "fix by next race" in your logbook but he could send you home. sorry

[joeg]

Michael--PM me.

Cheers.

[Wayne]

Remind me again what the drop dead date is to have the door bars installed?

Thanks
Wayne

[ITANorm]

1/1/07

[Bill Miller]

as I can&#39;t see the image of the rabbit door bar, I really have a hard time, seeing how the 3-4 pounds of the door beam is a cheater tweak, that is going to make the car even .001 second a lap faster. and I hope nobody here has any beliefs that any early eighties car with door factory beams offer any semblance of side impact protection is kidding themselves, the ballast is a completly seperate issue and whether it was removed from the car. the number one rule for a cage is to provide occupant protection and the nascar cages do exactly that by adding the hard shell further away the driver.

As was already pointed out by many, we have rules. If you don&#39;t want to follow them, go race somewhere else! It has nothing to do with making the car faster, or anything else. I can&#39;t stand this attitude that it&#39;s ok to ignore the rules if you feel that it&#39;s not going to make the car faster, or that you&#39;re new, and won&#39;t be winning any races. It&#39;s really an insult to those people that try their best to prepare to the letter of the rules.


As far as that 110+ pounds of ballast, check the addendum to the Feb. 06 FasTrack, you may not need it after all! :023: :happy204: :smilie_pokal:

And the door beam is a blatant issue. All you need is a tech inspector that&#39;s a stickler for rules, and you&#39;re probably going home. Go to a junkyard and get another door.


As for the car passing it&#39;s original tech and being issued a logbook, I believe tech inspectors are concerned with safety, and not class specific rules right?

While some may place more emphasis on safety, they should also be concerned w/ rules compliance. The person that issued a log book on that car really did a disservice to the car owner. You would have to hope that every tech inspector took the same view, or you could be spending a lot of time in the tech shed and the tower.

BTW, was this the car that was listed on this site&#39;s classifieds for ~$2000?