PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts on towing with minivan?



924Guy
06-03-2005, 09:41 AM
It's time for me to replace my trusty old Suburban, and I'm trying to decide if I really need another Burb or can get away with a minivan - as a friend indicates that his Chrysler minivan (AWD w/ 3.8 and load-leveling susp) can handle up to 4400lbs. My trailer and car together are 4000. Budget fits the 99-01 Burbs, anything up to around $16k.

Requirements:
- AWD - it's my winter transportation, and I prefer AWD
- seats plenty in comfort (4 min, 6 is better) - a pickup with extended cab isn't good enough IMO, for traveling distances with friends
- ABS (a given, no problem)
- tow capacity of 4000lbs min
- cargo capacity of Burb equivalent with seats out - cause I have an open trailer, and all of my gear goes in the back of the tow vehicle.

Would prefer the mileage and driving dynamics of a minivan when not towing. I'd also prefer the ease of parking - my driveway is very short, and my Burb hangs over the sidewalk when parked in the driveway. I'd expect an extended cab pickup with full bed to have the same problem.

Does this make sense, to think that I could use one of these AWD Chrysler minivans (probably an 00-02) to haul such a load? Is it the load-leveling suspension that gives it the added boost in capacity?

I'm certainly not about to buy an enclosed trailer, so no need for the 3/4-ton Burb anytime soon.

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

planet6racing
06-03-2005, 10:29 AM
Vaughn:

I'm sure you have thought about this, as it is your job, but...

Brakes. That is the single biggest thing I'd be concerned with. I know you're trailer has brakes, but it is nice to know that the tow vehicle can stop everything in the event of trailer brake failure.

The other thing I'd worry about is the short wheelbase.

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

joeg
06-03-2005, 10:33 AM
Simply a bad idea.

Go for a Dakota crew cab with the 4.7 V-8.

It is an adequate (and SAFE) tow vehicle and a very good daily driver.

A minivan is still FWD oriented notwithstanding the AWD option.

924Guy
06-03-2005, 10:46 AM
Like I said, crew cab pickup isn't desireable due to interior space, parking, etc. Sure, the Burb is just as lousy to park and fuel, but at least it's got hella good interior space. At that point (not getting a minivan) I'd be better off, for my needs (IMO) with the Burb. Plus, with all the soccer moms ditching them now for Pruises and whatever is the latest "cool" car, they are easy to find...

Brakes is a very good point...

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

Jake
06-03-2005, 10:58 AM
The Suburban may be overkill, but a Chrysler Minivan would be pushing it. Why not something in-between. A used Pathfinder or 4Runner would suit you well.

924Guy
06-03-2005, 11:07 AM
Inadequate interior (cargo) space.

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

Ron Earp
06-03-2005, 11:14 AM
It'll tow it - as I've said before, go to the paddocks in the UK and you'll find we're far better off with anything we tow with, including a minivan. My Dad uses a Ford Mini van to tow his 20ft sailboat with and it is pretty damn heavy.

A small truck will work well too and I wouldn't worry about the wheelbase. Everyone told me "Your Lightning will be a horrilbe tow truck". Well, it isn't. In fact, it is quite good with a 20ft enclosed and a lot of stuff - good power and torque and great brakes than shame the trucks that I was told to get to tow with. Fuel use? Well, it only gets around 15 mpg with no trailer, and gets about 10 mpg with the enclosed trailer, so I suppose that is about par for the course.

Anyhow, like you, I had to use mine as a daliy driver and the big truck that I consider overkill for tow duty, since I'm only towing once a month, is too big for daily duty in my opinion.

I would think you can get away with it, but then again, I've seen people with 16ft enclosed trailers behind an Audi 5000s and it works good enough to get to the track and back!

R

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited June 04, 2005).]

924Guy
06-03-2005, 12:06 PM
I suppose another good economical solution might be the minivan with a big-brake upgrade! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

Please keep the opinions coming, I value everyone's input!

Thanks,

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

Ron Earp
06-03-2005, 12:14 PM
You just have to get used to the fact that Americans overtow and it is somewhat related to the car industry rating the cars and trucks WAY conservative. They say 6000lbs, you say, "well, I've got to tow 5000 lbs, that is close, I better get the F350" and shazam, they make more cash, more gas gets bought, everyone is happy.

I'm going over to the UK for some track time at Donnington and I'll bring back same paddock pictures, you guys will laugh.

I am putting air bags on my rear to help with my tonque weight - $300 kit and it should help the only problem I have with the Lightning - I feel the tongue weight is just too high and it is causing rear end sag. Helper springs would be a cheaper solution.

A big brake upgrade would certainly take care of business, although on a minivan I'm not sure what exists. Certainly some more aggressive pads exisit I bet, might be worth a look.

Make sure the Chysler AWD system won't be fooled into doing something stupid with extra weight on the rear of the car. I don't think it will, but I don't know Chysler systems. I do know a fellow that tows with his Volvo Cross Country wagon (4700lbs of stuff, 2.4L motor, AWD, works fine) and his AWD system works fine with it, but I heard of an Audi owner than had big issues on his AWD system and towing.



------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

Scott Koschwitz
06-03-2005, 12:42 PM
I tow my Spec Miata on a 14' aluminum, open trailer with my VW EuroVan. Total weight is about 2,800 pounds. The van is rated at 4,500 pounds, so I have a good safety margin.

A lot of people look at me funny, but it does a good job -- stable as hell with great brakes -- even in the Connecticut hills.

It doesn't have AWD, so it wouldn't be an option for you. But I can attest to the utility of a van, especially if you have an open trailer.

Another option: one of the Ford, Chevy, or GMC passenger vans. The Astro might be a little small, but the next step up (E-150, Express/Savanna) might be a good choice. I think they all have removable passenger seats, so you can free some cargo room.

BUMPnGO
06-03-2005, 12:51 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...0&category=6472 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=photo&rd=1&item=4554069220&category=6472)

How about one of these with the Mercedes 2.7 turbo diesel with 243 ft. lbs. of torque

mowog
06-03-2005, 01:26 PM
Over the years I've towed lightweight cars on open trailers (about 3000#) up to heavier cars in enclosed trailers (up to 8000#). I've used station wagons, vans, truks, and 'burbs. In addition to the brake issues mentioned already, the biggest problems I've found or seen others suffer thru involve suspension problems, followed by transmission failures. Within a few years the springs sag even towing far less than rated capacity. I know of more than 10 people who have had transmission failures while towing. I've also had problem swith tire blow-outs, but that's probably due to tongue weight combined with too much cargo. One question is how far do you tow, and how often? How many large hills and mountains in between? If your typical tow is an hour or maybe two, with only minor hills, than you might be able to get away with a minivan. If you tow 4-5 hours on the PA turnpike, while carrying alot of heavy cargo, I wouldn't recommend it. My favorite dual purpose vehicle was a Suburban. My second favorite is a truck with a cap. For your purposes, I would think most any mid-sized crew cab with a cap, including the Nissan and Toyota, could handle the job well and still be a reasonable daily driver. They'd probably get better mileage than the 'burb too.

crushed
06-03-2005, 03:19 PM
I tow with an Astro van and love it. It could use more power, but the brakes are fine and i've really never had much of a stability problem. I don't think I would tow with anything less then the stro tho...

------------------
Russ Marshall
#31 IT-7

tom_sprecher
06-03-2005, 04:29 PM
I share the same concerns as mowog. I spend a couple of weeks a year in the Down River area and one thing I can say you have going for you is how flat it is there. If that is the prevalent landscape around the tracks you frequent you might be OK.

We have a couple of hills in Georgia and the Carolinas. Thats why we don't drive in the snow and ice. I think a mini van would be hard pressed to pull up them. You can feel and hear the difference even between a 327 and a 350 pulling the same trailer.

Trannys take the most abuse and changing your fluid on a regular basis is good PM. An additional cooler is not a bad idea either. I'm not much up on mommy, I mean, mini vans, but maybe you could look into whether a towing package was offered or not. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif


------------------
Tom Sprecher
Team SuperTech

Speed Raycer
06-03-2005, 04:56 PM
Our 1st Gen 4wd Durango does well. It's basically a Minivan with a V8. Seats 7-8 with kids in the 3rd row. 2nd and 3rd row lay down flat for cargo.

Average mileage w/o the trailer is around 13/14 city with the Tow package (3.91's, tranny cooler and big mirrors). About 11/12 mpg towing (OD OFF).

------------------
Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/IzysLgoSm.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)
Izzy's Custom Cages (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)

gsbaker
06-03-2005, 05:25 PM
Vaughan,

A couple of ideas:

1) A friend tows a 40' travel trailer with a current version Durango (8,900# capacity) and has no complaints.

2) I've seen ads in boating magazines for a tacked out Ford conversion van claiming a 10,000# capacity. As a land yacht it may be more than you need, but it's nice to know it's there as an option.

G

lateapex911
06-03-2005, 08:06 PM
Can you sing, "Puff the magic transmission, lived in the Chyrsler..." ????

I thought you could!

Seriously, just because the English do it a certain way doesn't make it right! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

I have no facts to back it up, but I have seen so many Dodge and Chrysler minivans stuck in 1st or 2nd, and needing new trannies, it makes me laugh. Adding the AWD stuff hasn't given me more confidence! (If it's a seperate system entirely, and lifted from Mercedes, then maybe...but otherwise, no thanks!

How bout the small 'Burban? The Yukon?
Durango is a decent idea, but again, Chrysler quality......

And don't even THINK about an Exploder! LOL!

And Ron?? You'll remember it wasn't ME telling you not to do the Lightning thing! I've driven them, and they are WAY faster than they should be! LOL. Hot truck...I would love one myself.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Ron Earp
06-03-2005, 09:10 PM
Hey Jake,

You are correct on the trannies and I had completely forgotten about that even though I am experiencing that right now! We have two Chysler vans and one is on its second tranny and the first one is getting its second tranny next month. Both have about 130k on them.

You are right, just because the Brits do it doesn't make it right, but they do get by with much less than we do and do okay. My L has the diesel automatic in it and a version of that truck's rear end so I think it'll last towing. Now, if it will surive my dragstrip antics, that is another story...

Those Yukons seem pretty good and can have a towing package with tranny temp gauge, different gears, cooler, etc. How about that Trailblazer with the inline six? Any good?

I think when I was looking I threatened to get a Ford Ranchero with the 428, that was about when my wife said get the Lightning instead. I figured a 70s truck, a 70s race car, I was all set to have pork chops and a fro with some flair jeans.

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited June 03, 2005).]

lateapex911
06-04-2005, 12:44 AM
I know the Brits do it, but getting by with it is another story....

I saw a HILARIOUS video of towing "mishaps", and wouldn't you know, the Brits starred in it. The contraptions they had were to be seen to be believed.

"No worries, we'll press on regardless!"

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

jc836
06-04-2005, 07:20 AM
I read and reread your inquiry. Being biased-the Dakota is indeed a better choice than a minivan whose tow capacity is very close to your estimate for the trailer. Our Club Cab is not as spacious as the Crew version-but it tows our rig with ease (4x2 4.7L). In the winter it runs just fine. You want AWD and that is OK too.
If you need the room-a lot of room and don't mind the fuel bill, then the Burb is the way to go. Most minivans can handle part of your needs, but not all by comparison to what you have.
The downside for either a truck or Burb is parking. I cannot put the Dakota or any truck of that size in a parking garage. Clearance at the house is tight but doable. Most SUV's have trouble with clearance as well. Our Alabama family has a full-size Burb and they had to go with a higher door on the garage at their new house. Some minivans will also pose this issue-so be careful. You mention driveway length and that indeed is an issue that is difficult to resolve.
The most important thing I can suggest is that you carefully determine the GROSS weight of your rig as set up to tow. I did and learned that Chrysler in its infinte way did NOT consider the Dakota a true truck (GM and FORD) also suffer from this brain fade). They chose to NOT use the true heavy duty springs from the Durango (better than a minivan for our purposes) as part of the HD Towing Package. WHY-because they wanted people to be comfy in a truck. I get compliments on how smooth the ride is-but I need the springs to hold the weight of everything in the bed and the trailer too (CRX on a 20' aluminum R&R open). Seems that the original springs had to be replaced after our 1st trip because the sagged 2". No problem since-but what a pain. And I was well under to limit of 6010. (BTW the new Durango is rated for over 7000.)

Have a great summer


------------------
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

ITANorm
06-04-2005, 09:12 AM
If you special order it (or maybe a dealer has one lying around) the Dakota is available with AWD. I have a 4.7L Quad-Cab 4x4 (without the AWD transfer case) with the towing package (including 3.91 gears). It is a very capable and comfortable vehicle towing ~6K, and it makes a nice daily driver. The only downside is that the fuel economy on the "modern" 4.7L engine is no better, IMHO, than it was on the "ancient" 5.2L (I get 14/17 and ~13 towing). The upside is that it seems to have about the same performance and a lot higher redline. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

In any event - one of the most critical things is that you have adequate trailer brakes. That means having a GOOD controller and adequate wiring to handle the current. Additionally, plenty of tongue weight (~15% of total trailer weight) and a good equalizer / sway control hitch will help keep you out of trouble. I've seen the consequences of not observing those rules, and they are not pretty.

turboICE
06-05-2005, 03:47 AM
AWD Astro/Safari if you want a mini-van with a total payload and trailer under 5,000#. Mine towed an open trailer, gear and crew fine.

A FWD vehicle makes for a poor towing platform in general.

fandozzi
06-05-2005, 08:37 PM
Vaughn,

We haven't met, but I run Waterford as well. With the SpecNeon guys. I would have introduced myself at the awards tonight if I read this post first. I have a 2005 Town & Country w/ 3.8 and tow package. I tow a 2700 pound car and a 1100 pound aluminum open trailer. I don't disagree with the principles of the above posts, but I couldn't be happier with my setup. In fact, I'll have it hooked up this week prepped for Beaverun next weekend if you want to check it out. I'm close to Royal Oak.

First, you have to use a load leveling hitch. The tongue weight on the minivan can't get too large, so you'd have to watch that. While you won't be able to pull hard from a stop, I've had great trips all over the Midwest and also down to the ARRC last year. Does fantastic on the highway, and can get 17.5 mpg at about 68 mph.

Please feel free to contact me and we can talk about it.

Kevin Fandozzi
[email protected]

Greg Amy
06-05-2005, 08:46 PM
Haven't read this whole topic yet, but on the trip home from Summit Point to CT today, we saw a jack-knifed setup.

On a downhill section of PA (4% grade) we came upon stopped traffic. As we crawled along we saw them over to the side of the road up against a guardrail (protecting them from a very iwcked fall). Guy was pulling a Mustang Mach 1 on a typical small open-deck car trailer behind a Nissan XTerra. You could see the scallop tire marks where the trailer obviously got out of shape and started swinging. From there you could see the beginnings of the truck's slide, leading right up to a very big dent in the guardrail.

The trailer with Mustang was slid up hard against the fence and the Nissan was jack-knifed backwards into the guardrail extneding into the road. Looked like both rear tires were blown and the rear bumper and trailer hitch were now folded into one piece. I coulda sworn I smelled fecal material as I taxied slowly to get by.

Don't try to tow wrong. There are good deals out there. - GA

turboICE
06-05-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by fandozzi:
First, you have to use a load leveling hitch. Once you are exceeding 50% of towing capacity, I don't care what the set up is, with Level III and up weight distributing hitch is the single biggest contribution to any safe and effective trailering right after the driver attitude and awareness. I have always used WD and have had half the towing issues of people who complain with nearly identical capabilities and load.

------------------
Ed.
240SX ITA

ITANorm
06-06-2005, 09:29 AM
^^
Werd!

JLawton
06-07-2005, 06:59 AM
Life's too short to drive a minivan...... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

OTLimit
06-07-2005, 08:36 AM
We have used my Safari (RWD) a couple of times to pull the race car short distances (to get painted, etc). And maybe to Gateway (~20miles) once. But it's not something we do on a regular basis.

We came soooo close to a lose-your-life trailer incident that this is something that we take very seriously.

I really don't care what the Brits do. I know that I would never feel comfortable pulling a small trailer loaded with car and stuff at 60-70 mph down the interstate with other traffic to contend with. Because you all stay under the speed limit, right? And you know, for sure, how much your whole rig weighs, right? Don't guess---weigh it. You might be unpleasantly surprised, but more aware because of it.

We have all seen enough and read about enough trailer accidents....don't be another statistic.

------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

Scooter
07-09-2005, 06:22 PM
There is no way I would tow anything but Jet Skis with a mini-van. I have a Dakota with the bigger engine and the tow package and it struggles a little. (For instance the brakes are warped right now from towing.)

Next time around I'm getting a turbo-diesel full-size van.

jpd

924Guy
07-09-2005, 08:27 PM
Followup on this - yeah, I've got the minivan, and am lovin' it! Very happy to be able to drive this daily instead of the Burb - at least, till my daily-driver 924 Turbo is back and fully operational (nearly there, now).

No worries about stability or brakes anymore... put it this way, I get to test trailer stability issues and the like at the day job, so not scared off by any of that... it was more a hauling capacity concern, but that's been answered.

Of course, I'm lucky living in the Midwest, no question; if I actually had to drag my rig up a hill, I'd have to have a Burb!

Thanks, guys!

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

eMKay
02-06-2006, 12:06 AM
I tow with one, it tows fine but I worry about the tranny on it. I modified it to tow though, Gabriel Hi-Jacker air shocks, tranny cooler, and regular tranny flushes. It tows great, a little slow, but I also am light on the go pedal while towing for the tranny's sake. When I am towing I try to keep it in cruise control becasue the computer is programmed to never go above a certain throttle amount, so while towing the tranny is always locked, and all I have to do is drop it in 3rd approaching a hill and shift back up before cresting (the tranny will delay the upshift until it's good and ready to shift). My total weight is very light though, the trailer only weighs 1200lbs, the car 1900, and add a few hundred in spares and gear. I wouldn't recommend towing much more than this but as long as the weight is properly distributed there will be no sway problems. If I detect even a hint of sway I pull over and reposition the car forward (this only happened once).

It's the shocks that make all the difference, they are wonderful. I run 25lbs in them empty, and about 80 loaded. The ride is smooth, no sway. In the future when my budget allows I will buy a better tow vehicle, but unless I start getting really serious and need an enclosed trailer it will be another minivan (with a RELIABLE transmission) Or something nice like an XC90, or Pacifica AWD. I would love to have a Duramax diesel pickup or even better...A diesel van but I could not tolerate driving one every day. Or the payments because right now no payments beats payments (started a new career recently)

The tow rig, notice the level van, no sag here. No sway either, tows much better than some trucks I borrowed in the past.

http://www.ubrfvideo.com/eMKay/bunday.jpg

lateapex911
02-06-2006, 11:23 PM
A good set of bakes on the trailer and a good controller are key on a setup like that.

Nothing scares me more about a race weekend than running up on a sudden emergency stop...and going long.

shwah
02-10-2006, 09:06 AM
The thing is - yeah you CAN tow with a minivan, but if you don't have to - avoid it.

I towed for a while with a Jeep Cherokee. It worked, just barely. I did have one moment with it, but never a disaster. I had this truck for the reason many here are giving for using the minivan - I did not want a giant vehicle to drive every day.

Then I realized how much easier my race weekends would be if I just got and appropriate tool for the job, and that a full size van is so cheap it can be an extra car that I only drive when going racing. Picked up a 3/4 ton GMC conversion van with towing package and air shocks, installed a brake controller, and never worry much when towing anymore. It was $4200. I have no desire or need to drive it every day (unless one of the cars is in the shop - in which case it is very convenient to have a back up in the stable).

eMKay
02-10-2006, 12:18 PM
The thing is - yeah you CAN tow with a minivan, but if you don't have to - avoid it.

I towed for a while with a Jeep Cherokee. It worked, just barely. I did have one moment with it, but never a disaster. I had this truck for the reason many here are giving for using the minivan - I did not want a giant vehicle to drive every day.

Then I realized how much easier my race weekends would be if I just got and appropriate tool for the job, and that a full size van is so cheap it can be an extra car that I only drive when going racing. Picked up a 3/4 ton GMC conversion van with towing package and air shocks, installed a brake controller, and never worry much when towing anymore. It was $4200. I have no desire or need to drive it every day (unless one of the cars is in the shop - in which case it is very convenient to have a back up in the stable).
[/b]

Yeah, but there is a difference there, a Cherokee only weighs ~3100lbs, while my van weighs about 4000. When your trailer exceeds the weight of the tow vehicle things can get hairy. I bet that Cherokee gets pushed around a bit while my van tows nice and steady.

OTLimit
02-10-2006, 02:25 PM
eMKay,
Glad it's working for you. However, I wouldn't be surprised if your trailer and gear weighs more then you think it does. It behooves all of us to know what the situation is, and have realistic expectations from our tow vehicles. Around here it costs about $7 to weigh at a truck stop on our way out of town. It's a good, cheap investment.

eMKay
02-10-2006, 04:48 PM
eMKay,
Glad it's working for you. However, I wouldn't be surprised if your trailer and gear weighs more then you think it does. It behooves all of us to know what the situation is, and have realistic expectations from our tow vehicles. Around here it costs about $7 to weigh at a truck stop on our way out of town. It's a good, cheap investment.
[/b]

BTDT, I know what every piece I tow or put in the van weighs

p99ro
02-12-2006, 02:54 AM
Since everone is chiminging.
Dude. DUDE.
If you have a 15 foot trailer and a 12 foot rig with lack of brakes and shocks. It is a problem. Like the guy said things are fine then Oh Sh*t stopping. You cant fool around with it. You spend more time in it than the car.
I was racing Go-carts with the Idea to do cars I bought a extened cab and tow package for that reason. Hills you need the power. A Large van would work better. 150,250 .
As to the thread you can see its not a good Idea.
god luck and leave after me please. :cavallo:
Scott CRXsi F150 2000 Black with tow package. Breakes change this year boy tht helped.

mowog
02-13-2006, 01:30 PM
Maybe there should be two sticky notes on towing. One with questions you should ask yourself, and maybe one with do's and don'ts.

It's been pointed out that people tow with what appears to be minimal vehicles in England. First off, England is a very small country without many real hills, much less mountain ranges. Second, just because someone has towed a Sprite with a Morris Minor doesn't mean they are sane and others should follow their example.

So I would ask these questions before determining if a Mini Van, a Camaro, or a Dually is required:

What distance are you planning on going?
---Is it 50 miles or less? Do you plan the occasional 200+ mile journey with the same tow vehicle?

What is between you and the track(s)?
---Will you be driving over mostly flat terrain, on highways, or taking a Road Rally course thru the Rockies or Death Valley?

What are you towing?
---An open trailer with no overhead tire rack or other storage requires less than an enclosed trailer of any size.

How much weight are you towing, how much are you carrying?
---Not the same as what you are towing, you need to know both what weight you are pulling and what you are carrying - including passengers, to determine if the vehicle is designed for each individually and combined. And by vehicle, I include tire rating, brakes, shocks, etc. It's a package. Upgrading shocks does nothing for tires, etc. But being motorheads you all know that, right?

Does the trailer have brakes, and does the tow vehicle have a quality brake controller?

What type of hitch, do you have sway control, weight equalizing, etc?

I'm sure others could add to this list, but it's a start. I think without knowing the answers to these questions, it would be impossible to answer the question Can I tow with this?

AntonioGG
02-13-2006, 02:35 PM
Nobody has brought up HOW you drive.

Perhaps it's maybe a good thing to feel the trailer. I've witnessed some of the worst driving by people in F350's towing a large trailer...75-80mph, tailgating, etc. I guess they don't realize that even a big truck and diesel engine doesn't help you stop any faster when you have 10-20k lbs. of combined weight.

When I towed wih my Explorer V8, it definitely had the grunt to pull my SM and 16' 1600lbs trailer (way too much trailer for a 2200lb car + spares), but I could feel it behind me (though to me it felt like the combo with trailer brakes stopped better than the truck by itself!!). I definitely kept my distance and looked way ahead of the next guy. I think a better engineered trailer to match what you tow (my guess is it could be 1000lbs lighter) would work great on a lighter minivan.

I now pay someone to store and haul my car. Since I didn't want the Explorer as a daily driver, and a 3rd car was not an option, it just works out better for me this way.

How about alternative vehicles for towing?

I was always curious about a Caprice Wagon or maybe a Magnum wagon. I think they would make more practical daily drivers if you had to drive them, and they are way more aerodynamically efficient (who decided trucks had to look like bricks?!!)

emwavey
03-08-2006, 05:40 PM
I've been looking at Trailblazers lately... the extended version (EXT) has a longer wheelbase. They also come in 2wd versions, they can also be had with a 4.2 straight 6 or a 5.3 v8.

http://www.chevrolet.com/trailblazer/specifications/

with the inline 6 the "max trailer weight" depends on the "axle ratio" and the two wheel drive version can handle about 200 more lbs.

4.10 = 6,400 and the max GCWR is 11,000

Just something I've been considering since the suburban is absurd to use as a second "car".

ryotko
03-08-2006, 06:56 PM
I've been looking at Trailblazers lately... the extended version (EXT) has a longer wheelbase. They also come in 2wd versions, they can also be had with a 4.2 straight 6 or a 5.3 v8.

http://www.chevrolet.com/trailblazer/specifications/

with the inline 6 the "max trailer weight" depends on the "axle ratio" and the two wheel drive version can handle about 200 more lbs.

4.10 = 6,400 and the max GCWR is 11,000

Just something I've been considering since the suburban is absurd to use as a second "car".
[/b]

I'd bet that the MPG figures GM lists for the Trailblazer are not with that 4.10 rear that you'd need for towing.

A 1/2 ton 5.3L Suburban with the 3.42 rear is rated for 7500 lbs towing and gets within a few MPG of what's listed for the Trailblazer.

When all's said and done I wonder how different the fuel economy really is.

-Bob

JOESELLSVW
03-10-2006, 02:50 PM
Bob, I'd stick with the Suburban... that way you can fit more stuff in there. I've always laughed at the rather meager differences between the midsize and fullsize trucks in terms of fuel economy. Your avatar image is cool! LOL! Will you be at Warminster next Sat. This is the last of the winter series. It'd be a good shake out for the car! Joe

lateapex911
03-10-2006, 06:18 PM
Or get the 5.3. But going to Atlanta from New England is asking a lot of it if you have an enclosed trailer. (For instance) Think in terms of 10mpg in that mode. More of course with an open trailer, and my truck breaks 20 on the highway towing nothing!
The 5.3 would be ok with an open, and will work, but barely with an enclosed. Still iit's much better than the 318 in my old crack van!

Edwin Robinson
03-10-2006, 08:39 PM
Man.... I'd like to see that Minivan come down the hill from Watkins Glen! ;^)

That'd be good for business!

~E.

lateapex911
03-10-2006, 09:16 PM
Man.... I'd like to see that Minivan come down the hill from Watkins Glen! ;^)

That'd be good for business!

~E.
[/b]

Ahhh..the hill with the funeral home at the bottom?

(I have a story about that one, LOL)

emwavey
03-14-2006, 12:12 AM
Yeah the more I research and talk to people the more I'm leaning towards keeping the Suburban and just buying a beater for a second car.

Though I still think the EXT would be a better option then a Mini-van.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Edwin Robinson
03-14-2006, 07:09 PM
Yeah the more I research and talk to people the more I'm leaning towards keeping the Suburban and just buying a beater for a second car.

Though I still think the EXT would be a better option then a Mini-van.

Just my 2 cents. :)
[/b]

Just for reference - the rotors on the Trailblazer (EXT) are 1.5" larger diameter (325mm), than the Grand Caravan AWD ones... ..the (newer) 3/4 Ton (4x4) Suburban rotors weight 2X as much - and are a whopping 38mm thick!

~E.

gran racing
03-14-2006, 09:50 PM
Probably too many paint fumes on edit...

shwah
03-14-2006, 11:29 PM
I'd bet that the MPG figures GM lists for the Trailblazer are not with that 4.10 rear that you'd need for towing.

A 1/2 ton 5.3L Suburban with the 3.42 rear is rated for 7500 lbs towing and gets within a few MPG of what's listed for the Trailblazer.

When all's said and done I wonder how different the fuel economy really is.

-Bob
[/b]

I hear you on this one. I get about the same mileage towing with a 95 GMC Vandura 2500, w/TBI 350 that I did towing with an 00 Jeep Cherokee 4 liter. I just carry more stuff and don't feel like I am walking a tigh-rope while doing it. :D

Chris

gran racing
03-15-2006, 10:09 AM
Jake Fisher's Pathfinder idea is a very good one depending on what you're towing.

The mini-van...guess it could be done but not so sure you'll want to keep using it over the long term.

eMKay
03-15-2006, 01:53 PM
Man.... I'd like to see that Minivan come down the hill from Watkins Glen! ;^)

That'd be good for business!

~E.
[/b]


Going down hill isn't a problem as trailers have brakes too...It's going uphill I don't like with my van, it has enough power, just too afraid to use it in fear of the transmission exploding.

JamesB
03-15-2006, 02:05 PM
A good transmission cooler and temp gauge is what you need to address those issues man. at least then you will keep it cool and know when its working too hard.

.

eMKay
03-16-2006, 08:42 AM
A good transmission cooler and temp gauge is what you need to address those issues man. at least then you will keep it cool and know when its working too hard.

.
[/b]

I have a cooler of course, and the proper fluid. I have been considering a temp gauge as it's super easy to install.

JamesB
03-16-2006, 10:30 AM
piece of mind is always a good thing with towing. My titan has one from the factory and unlike OEM vw gauges they seem to move often so I put some trust into them.

lateapex911
03-16-2006, 02:58 PM
I think a temp guage would be a worthy addition to my truck, which does have a stock cooler. Any suggestions as to a make and model?

What is the best way to install it? I have a GMC Sierra, 2001 1500 with the tow/haul feature.

JamesB
03-16-2006, 03:53 PM
Go with whatever gauge you trust. Autometer, VDO, XXX.

Just like oil temps, trans temps should be around the same. The most common installs is either drilling/bung welding in the pan. Others want to know the extreme temps and go inline from the trans to the cooler. If you have it some use the pressure port to get a mean temp of the transmission as a whole.

I don't know vehical specific. The only time I have installed is on ford vans so as I added the better cooler I installed the gauge on the transmission outlet. Was amazed to know how much heat I could build up heading into northern NY with a small 12x6 trailer packed with MX bikes would create.

Fi3555
03-30-2006, 10:24 PM
Just curious about gas (fuel) mileage. What mileage do you people get,at what speeds,towing what kind of trailer and est. weight with what tow vehicle. I guess I'll go First. I tow an open trailer with a Golf(3000#Total) at a speed of 65-70mph. I'm currently using a IH Traverall with a 345ci V-8 Auto. It grunts up Black Mt. (45mph) but will tow 75mph on flat stable as can be with good braking. My mileage is alot to be desired. I get from 5.9 to 7.8mpg depending on the hills. I would like to get better but can't see putting 20 g's into a racecar tow vehicle. Any ideas? I did have a 1 ton gas van the last time in racing and it got about 11mpg but was UGLY.

Tim
97 ITB Golf

mowog
03-30-2006, 11:13 PM
Original setup was old 1/2 ton V8 van, lightweight and terribly built open trailer carrying a 1350# car. Trailer had lt truck tires. I probably went thru more tires on the van and trailer than the race car...rarely made trips further than 4 hours without at least one shreaded tire from split belts. Obviously I carried waaay too much in the van(s). Often couldn't hear the blowouts cause the van was so loud, and kept trying to drown out the noise with the radio. I think I sort of specialized in loud, ugly, high mileage towing vans, eventually owning at least 4, but they generally got about 12-13 mpg at 70.

Next, better trailer, could carry more than the car on it. Led to more blown trailer tires than van tires.

Next up, 3/4 ton'84 Suburban with a 4 bbl. Wopping 6mpg. Never blew 'Burb tires out, learned about meaty, beefy, big, and bouncy. Eventually got a '93 Burb, 10-12 mpg. Woohoo!

"Graduated" to Ford dually with 454 and 22' enclosed. Back to 6-7mpg, and the pig wouldn't even go up hills at the speed limit. Learned to hate that truck, but have to admit I never blew a tire in it - and they were Firestone ATX!

Bit the bullet and went the conspicuous consumption route....new Chevy dually with 8.1 gasser. Gas prices have curbed many of my bad habits, learning to tow at 60 mph, and getting about 9.5-10 mpg as a result (about 8.5 when old bad habits return). Nice and quiet, very comfortable, can go up hills at 90 if I want to, and I actually arrive at the track almost relaxed. Well, as relaxed as I can be considering it took me an extra hour to get there.

Maybe I should go back to an open trailer and only race at my local track unless/until the gas prices come down... :birra:

JamesB
03-30-2006, 11:17 PM
I get about 13 towing. Thats the golf at 2300#, trailer is around 1300#, and I would say about 500# in stuff in the car or bed of the truck. I have an 05 titan though.

x-ring
03-31-2006, 09:37 AM
I get between 12 and 14 mi/gal towing a 20' Wells Cargo enclosed with my Z and maybe 1Klbs of junk in it. Trailer is heavy, manufacturer specs it at 3200lbs empty. Truck is a 97 F350 crew cab 4x4 PSD with 165,000 miles on the clock. I usually run at 70 on the highway, at 75+ mileage deteriorates to around 10-11.

Going up long hills my speed will slip to 60 or so. On really long hills (Raton pass, 8000+ feet) I have to downshift to 4th, speed drops to 50 or so.

JamesB
03-31-2006, 09:47 AM
I forgot to mention I tow between 60 and 75 depending on the terrain of the route. comming up the mountain pass on I70 I dont really push the truck. But otherwise I just set the cruise control and run.

CDS
03-31-2006, 11:48 AM
I tow with an '02 Tahoe 5.3L w/tow pkg, fairly heavy open trailer with box, 1800# ITC Honda. Several hundred pounds of stuff in trailer box and in back of the Tahoe. On flat terrain usually tow 70-75 mph, down to 60 for larger hills. Haven't really been in big hills yet. Usually average 12-15 mpg unless there are a lot of hills. I've been pretty pleased, it rides well and has decent torque. I've been wanting to add a trans temp guage just to keep an eye on things.

eMKay
03-31-2006, 11:52 PM
About 17mpg, The van has a 3.3, I tow at 65mph with the cruise on (tranny never unlocks in cruise, probably why it hasn't exploded yet) It tows straight and true, just slow. I would like to replace it with a better tow vehicle once smaller trucks or vans become available with diesels.

charrbq
04-01-2006, 11:39 AM
I tow with an '05 GMC Seirra, 5.3, 3.23 posi final, fully loader luxo cruiser. I've added 20" wheels, Corsa stainless exhaust, K&N ram charger intake, Granetilli mass air sensor, and Hypertech reprogram on the computer. Actually, almost as much as the race car. I tow an 1800# Honda on a 16' tandem axle trailer complete with tire rack and storage boxes. Pickup is also quite full. Did I tell you I almost always take way more than I need?

In stock trim, I got 13 mpg, now I get 17...unloaded, 21. That's at 70 with the cruise and AC. Last truck was a '92 Chevy 5.7 w/5-speed manual, virtually the same add ons, and a 3.08 posi. At the same speed, it got 20mpg towing. Difference was in the tranny. No downshift on the hills for the cruise.

I've heard tails of the 4.8 towing similar loads and getting better mileage.

mowog
04-01-2006, 10:07 PM
A little off topic (or a little further off topic), sorry....I've read some mixed reviews on the gas mileage gains with the Granetilli mas, but none pertained to towing. What's your opinion? I'm more concerned with gas mileage improvement, not performance. Thanks

charrbq
04-04-2006, 01:31 PM
I've heard the same claims...can't honestly say. I've been pretty shocked at how poor the mileage was with this truck as the one I had just before was identical except for the final drive...3.42 rather than 3.23...and the crushed front end against the I-12 retaining wall.
My initial highway mileage was 17 whereas the other was 20...not towing. Now I get as good as 21, but that's after all the stuff done to it. I can say, from experience, that the K&N and the Corsa Exhaust will pay for themselves...much sooner with gas like it is.

One thing's for certain...the thing will haul a$$ when you punch it!

Karl Bocchieri
06-25-2006, 11:58 AM
I started towing with an old Land cruser with a 6 and a stick. Over the years I moved up to an older Burb with a big block that was great except the gas mileage. My wife and I compromised on a new Yukon XL a few years ago and as a dual purpose vehicle it's great. Wonderfull on long trips with the kids and my wife uses it around town so we don't put much mileage on it. I got autoride so it has self leveling rear shocks which work well.
It realy makes a difference on a race weekend when you don't have to wory about the tow home.

I want to know why every SUV manufactuer has forgoten about the diesel, and I dont mean the powerstroke, or duramax type. I mean a smaller 6 that would get good mileage and have a moderate tow rating. The way gas prices are moving I can't believe GM came out with their new SUV's with out a small diesel option. Are they kidding, E85, you get 20% less milage. Can you amagine towing, you would have to stop every hour to fill up.

Spinnetti
10-03-2006, 12:55 PM
This is late for a reply, but food for thought if anybody else researches the topic.

My car and trailer weigh about 2800lbs, plus a couple hundred in gear.
I've towed with:

> Chevy astro van: Great sized package, struggled a bit on power (even with a new motor with upgrades), and blew transmissions like kleenex (I gave up after two, and I only towed 3-4 times a year)

> Custom Chevy car carrier. A friend built it for me out of two CK pickups welded together. Just drove the car up the back of it. Actually worked great, but it was too big and unwieldly to use as normal transport too.

> Ford F150 extra cab - worked ok, but too big for daily transport, and I don't race enough just to keep a spare truck around

> Toyota 4Runner. Worked fine overall, though felt kinda underpowered

> Mazda MPV (a friends). This actually worked out pretty good, and I liked it as a race support vechicle better than the 4 runner.

> VW Touareg V6 - Its the wifes daily driver, and she loves it. Cargo room is small, but supralegal speeds in 6th gear I hardly notice I'm towing :) This would be perfect with a bit more cargo room. I get around 15MPG (if I remember right) towing.

Z3_GoCar
10-03-2006, 01:46 PM
The issue with the Astro Van Transmission is that GM uses two differnet brake bands for 2nd and 4th when they put it togeather. These bands are so close togeather in size that the aftermarket assumed they were the same and just used one size fits all in their kits. I have a friend who had this issue with his 1/2 ton tow vehicle, he would up clearancing the 2nd gear band by grinding down the pin that pulls it closed, then selling the truck quickly. I'm thinking diesel Touareg, but a Cheyanne would be cooler, use a Porsche to tow my BMW :P

James