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Ron Earp
09-06-2004, 07:20 PM
Which would be more useful and why - open bed truck or SUV? Having never owned such a thing but comtemplating ownership I'm looking for opinions on each, pros and cons.


------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
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JeffYoung
09-06-2004, 07:46 PM
Went through this one last year. Of course, my tow vehicle also doubles as semi-daily driver, so that colors things.

I looked at pickups and SUVs. Pluses and Minuses:

Pickups.

1. Generally (although not by much) cheaper.
2. Diesel availability is greater, which is a plus for towing but potentially a negative for daily driver.
3. Stick shifts available (a plus for me).
4. More are 4X4 (a plus for me).
5. Bed more useful for weekend house work.
6. Most offered in crew cab versions with four doors, so can carry four adults in comfort.
7. Not too hard to sell to g/friend or wife.
8. Biggest minus for me was that anything I hauled would be exposed to the elements. Since I have an open trailer, this is a problem.

SUV
1. I hate SUVs.
2. Most can't tow for shit, unless you go plus size (although this is changing).
3. Harder to get a diesel.
4. Better seating, mmore comfortable cabin.
5. Enclosed storage space.
6. Gas mileage is atrocious.
7. Easiest to sell to g/friend/wife.

I ended up (as you know) with a 3/4 ton 454 Suburban, which can tow 10,000 lbs and with the back two seats out/down can carry as much as a cargo van. I like it except it is a Chevy and breaks, and it gets 10 mpg. If I had a closed trailer, I definitely would have gone pickup, especially since I got the "other" car to drive most days with now.

Which leads me to my last point: if your g/friendw/ife can stomach it, a cargo van is the way to go. Cheap (as in you can get a decent one for a couple grand). Can double as a weekend yard warrior. Enclosed. Can sleep in it. Hauls a lot, etc.

If you are going open trailer on a budget, cargo van is probably the way to go.

Ron Earp
09-06-2004, 08:07 PM
What is the price difference on an enclosed trailer vs. open? Lots?

Julie would go for either because she looks at it as a way to get the house stuff done that neither of us have a car to do. You'd have laughed like hell if you'd seen me at Lowes yesterday trying to stuff that pressure washer into the M3. Not funny. Even had two guys offer to help, but I think they did it for amusement purposes, not to actually help me!

That Dodge SUV can tow pretty well with the short axle ratio and the 6L motor. Enclosed, and, if the seats would come out not bad. But, not on a budget. And, like you I prefer to have a manual tranny but nothing with power really offers that, sans some big Ford diesels that I don't want or need.

Your car is pretty good for towing, no issues there. And, I like the idea of having something to sleep in, that is important. I can't see hoteling it all the time, especially if the hotels aren't too near the track.

Fun stuff to contemplate!

Ron

lateapex911
09-06-2004, 08:11 PM
You like British cars.

Range Rover.

OK, right...dumb idea! So...

VW Toureg with the V10 TDI diesel. IT will pull the trailer with a tree chained to the back of the trailer.

If the 15K surgarge for the V10 is a bit much, I am told the V8 is a 6th gear puller, if you keep the load under control.

Of course, the interior is so nice it's a shame to load leaky gearboxes in it.

So. in the "real world"...

If you have an enclosed trailer, a good pick up is the choice. Open trailer means a box of some kind.

We submited at the same time....so, you want to sleep at the track in it? Uh oh. Get an enclosed trailer. Cars suck to sleep in!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited September 06, 2004).]

Ron Earp
09-06-2004, 09:26 PM
Range Rover bad!

I had a thought - a early Bronco or similar. But, then I had another thought - with a British car to race, being new, I don't need problems with a tow truck. So, I need something relatively new.

I am going to check out those serial killer vans. That might just be the ticket.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

Ron Earp
09-06-2004, 09:47 PM
Assuming low-end, single car, enclosed trailer - how much would one cost compared to an open? I know a steel open can be $1000 or so, used, aluminum open looks to be around $2500-3500.

Are enclosed trailers twice that?

I agree with Jeff - if the trailer was enclosed I'd not worry about a truck and definitely choose that over an SUV.

R

Quickshoe
09-07-2004, 01:35 AM
I have an 2004 Interstate West 16' x 7' ramp door with the millenium package (ATP stone guard on front, ATP on tongue, spare tire, inside lights, roof vent, outside loading lights, RV style side door, 4 floor d-rings and 4 wall d-rings, rear stabilizer jacks, torsion spring axles with brakes on both, with sales tax and CA DMV fees it was about $4500.

My friend bought, from the same dealer, a 2004 Interstate West 20' x 102" Car Hauler (4 ft longer, 18" wider, larger side door, and finished ceiling with two roof vents...no ATP, no spare, no rear loading lights or d-rings in the walls. Hers was about $5200. Quite a bit more trailer for only $700 more, but it was more than my tow vehicle could haul comfortably.

Interstate West is middle of the road price/quality.

I also looked at PACE, Haulmark, Featherlite, TPD, Carson and AZ-Tek.

The Featherlite and TPD were much more.

The PACE and Haulmark were a little more expensive. Even at the same price I would have bought the Interstate. I liked the interior finish more in one, and the exterior more in the other. I didn't dislike either on the Interstate.

The Carson Racer model was about the same price and I felt, much poorer quality.

The AZ-Tek was considerably cheaper both in price and quality.

I towed with an open trailer for close to 15 years, never understanding why someone would spend 'so much' on a trailer and not put it in the car or seat time. Now I know. 1--storing the race car in the trailer versus inside the garage frees up garage space=happy wife who can now park her car in the garage instead of in the driveway means less hassle on money going towards the race car. 2--Keeping all of your stuff in the trailer saves so much time packing and unpacking. Less stress when trying to load up and get on the road. Quicker to put the trailer away and get a shower, go to bed after a long weekend. 3--You won't have stuff blow out of the trailer, or be exposed to the weather. 4--When at the track you have a place to get out of the weather. 5--You are less likely to forget something if you never take it out of the trailer to begin with.

Drawbacks--you MUST resist the temptation to leave the car in the trailer until a week before the next race.

You MUST be pretty confident that it and all your belongings are pretty safe where it is stored.

They are harder on your tow vehicle.

I don't know why it took me so long to do it...yes I do, I am a tighta$$. The only way I'd ever go back to an open trailer was if I went rally racing...I don't want a service crew dragging an enclosed trailer to some of the places they might need to.

While I am on my soapbox, feeling like anyone gives a rats' a$$ about what I am saying, get a truck and use the change for an enclosed trailer.

lateapex911
09-07-2004, 05:18 AM
Bingo- I love my enclosed.

I rarely put my tent up anymore.

Best thing i've done in awhile.
I have a smaller 22' that is an older Pace. Cosmetics are't wonderful, but as my friend Dick points out, nobody will steal it this way!

A friendly racer was very fair in the pricing. I doubt you can find many as low used....I would expect the common low price for a workable enclosed is about $2500.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Ron Earp
09-07-2004, 09:13 AM
I had a look around at truck offerings on the web and I do say I'm disappointed. I might be wrong, but it appears to me that nobody offers a diesel truck that isn't supersized as in F250, 350, and GM/Dodge equalivalents. That is just too big for my tastes to use as a daily driver.

I also thought about the Toureg from VW but it is small on the inside and DAMN expensive for the diesel - $65k nicely appointed. No way I'm spending that sort of cash on a car!

I wish Ford still made a full size Bronco, I always liked them since they weren't too big but had a lot of room inside. Especially since the rear seat came out giving you a completely flat floor. Could even remove the passenger seat for some additional storage.

Julie shot down the serial killer van, so, no dice there. Back to SUVs and trucks, but she hates SUVs so a truck is certainly in the running. Ford or Dodge, can't bring myself to buy the General since I'm a Ford man from way back. too bad the PowerSmoke isn't put into a normal size truck.....hmmm.....a project......

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited September 07, 2004).]

Greg Amy
09-07-2004, 09:35 AM
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...nobody offers a diesel truck that isn't supersized as in F250, 350, and GM/Dodge equalivalents.</font>

Diesels are considered heavy-duty engines, thus the heavy-duty chassis. In fact, my '93 7.3L long block engine weighs about 950 pounds buck naked. It would be a Very Bad Idea to try and use a light-duty truck for heavy-duty tasks...

Whydoes the chassis capability matter? The F150 body/chassis is the same size as the comparably-equipped F350; why do you say they're "super-sized"? There ARE SWB and LWB F350 PSDs out there without the crew cab, you just have to keep your eyes peeled. Don't rule out the earlier non-PSD late-'93/'94 turbodiesels, either; with minimal mods those trucks will put out more torque than the later PSDs.


<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Back to SUVs and trucks, but she hates SUVs so a truck is certainly in the running.</font>

How not a diesel Excursion or Suburban? Yeah, it's an SUV, but - REALLY - it's nothing more than a pickup truck with a bed cap (which you'll probably put on anyway) and extra seats and accessibility. When you compare an SUV to a pickup with a cap, they're pretty much similar. Hell, get one and TELL her it's a pickup with a cap...<grin>

GA

JLawton
09-07-2004, 11:58 AM
I have an F150 Super Crew (full four doors) and an open trailer. I put a truck box on the front of the trailer where I put all the nasty stuff. I also put the back seats down in the truck which makes it a very big flat surface and put the tool box, luggage, safety gear, etc. In the bed, I put stuff in totes plus tires and other things that are OK to get wet.

When not racing,
I can fit a yard of mulch, a big load to go to the dump, bikes, lawn tractor, snow blower, 4x8 plywood and can carry 6 people comfortably!!

It's also my daily driver.........
------------------
Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited September 07, 2004).]

Ron Earp
09-07-2004, 12:51 PM
I migth be doing something wrong but I just want a basic truck you know - 4 wheels, two axles, 4 wheel drive. With a diesel motor, that seems to not exist, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Seems when I try to build a diesel then suddenly it throws me into a crew cab, which, is might big in comparison to a normal truck. This is what I was talking about by "Super Sized" truck. A truck, with a normal bed and 4 doors, is not the same size as a truck with two doors.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

joeg
09-07-2004, 01:49 PM
I carry fuel with me, so open bed P/U for me.
Cheers.
[/B][/QUOTE]

BMW RACER
09-07-2004, 03:43 PM
Ron. I have a '03 F250 Powerstroke deisel, extended cab, short bed. It is the same overall length as an Excursion. The extended cab is handy for the occaisional third person and also for locking up small personal stuff. And it costs quite a bit less than an Excursion deisel (and a lot easier to find). I drive it everyday and it gets used as a shop vehicle during the day. Yup it's a little on the big side but I can park it just about anywhere a full size car can park. Now then when it comes to towing, This thing is the dogs bollocks!! Up the grapevine with #7000 enclosed trailer, 100 degrees outside, A/C on inside and the cruise control set at 75MPH!! I was passing most cars. All that and 12 MPG towing. Did I say I love my truck.

John

Ron Earp
09-07-2004, 04:09 PM
I stopped by the Ford dealer while at lunch. F150s are big - I'm only 5'8" on a good day and I can just barely see in the bed. Why are these damn things so tall? There is a foot of space between the tire and the body!!!

I asked about diesel 150s with standard dimensions and they looked at me like I stepped off a spaceship. Whay would anyone want that I was asked? I was always taught the customer is right and you should help them, not call them crazy. However, there were some 150s with the 5.4 liter motor, with standard beds and short doors in the back, that were tolerable. Had a damn nice interior, that is for sure, just like an SUV.

Also had a nice Lightning truck which I'm sure most of us know. Nicer size than the big ones, but old style interior and two wheel drive (which is probably okay where I live).

I've got lots of time, just looking at options. Have to see what is in the Dodge camp.

Ron

nlevine
09-07-2004, 04:39 PM
I just got a Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab with the Hemi and 3.92 rear gears (with off-road package). Tows nicely (open trailer with tire rack). Loaded up the bed with messy stuff for the last race, tool box and other "clean stuff" went inside. Fits 6 adults in the cab when not loaded with race gear (actually has 6 seat belts - including a center rear shoulder belt). I test drove a 2500 when I was looking (diesels are only available in 2500 and 3500 - at a >$5000 premium), but the ones on the lots around here all have snowplow prep packages and drive like buckboards - stiffer springs and solid front axles I think. If I was doing more events, or going further afield more often, then I would have considered the 2500 (could get 4.11 gears in a Quad Cab 2500 with the Hemi, not in the 1500). With the number of events I do, and how I plan to use the truck when not racing, I opted for the more comfortable ride of the 1500 - even with its reduced capacity. I figure the truck I have now will be fine even if I upgrade to a small-ish enclosed trailer without needing to upgrade the truck.

-noam

joeg
09-07-2004, 05:14 PM
Ron--Ford Diesels are in the F250 and F350.

One of the reasons I passed on the Ford Diesel was the height. Even at over 6' tall, I thought I could use a parachute to get out of it.

Went with the Chevy 2500HD Diesel.

Fabulous truck!

Ron Earp
09-07-2004, 05:37 PM
I am going to kick around and look at those trucks, especially the Dodge but I'll check both. You are exactly right on the Fords - damn things are tall and I'm not. I mean, I could not even reach into the bed and touch the bottom, thus, getting a heavy toolbox out from the sides would be a no go for me. Ditto something like a tire, that would lie flat but be heavy. No chance, I'm just too short.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

Richy Gonzalez
09-07-2004, 06:32 PM
"Fords are high". Yes, I do agree but there is a solution. For an F150, buy a lowering kit ($400) and then add a air bag kit ($280) and you will not have any towing problems.
The thing rides as nice or even nicer than factory. Also, I would recommend the air bag as a load assist system for any vehicle (truck or SUV) that either tows or hauls lots of stuff.

------------------
Richy Gonzalez
GB Racing - #24 ITA CRX (http://groups.msn.com/TheGonzalezFamilyRichySheilaandNyah/projectitacrx.msnw)
LAMIN-X Protective Films (http://www.lamin-x.com)

lateapex911
09-07-2004, 07:57 PM
I drive my truck every day, and the bigger springs etc of the 2500 and 3500 series would just pound the chassis into a box of rattels in no time. So I got a 1500. Air bags are the smart choice though, just pump 'em up when you need 'em.

And...I think people over estimate the "Need" for 4WD. If you live in part of the country where a big strom is occasional, then I would forgo it. Too much extra weight, and crap to go wrong, ruins the ride (unsprung weight,,jeez these things are heavy enough already) and kills what meager gas mileage they get.

And the 4 wheel drive ones are always higher. Seems like everybody thinks its "better" way up in the air, so you can drive over stumps and boulders. Do you do that? Most of us don't but the average buyers ego thinks he does....

So, get the best engine you can find in a extended cab (the interior space IS needed) and a set of bags. If you have $ left over, bolt on a supercharger!



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

racer-025
09-08-2004, 07:58 AM
For local track hauling I use a 97 Dodge RAM Van 2500 Mark III Conversion. V6 Magnum that hauls an open trailer with no problems. Gets 15-20mpg loaded. Only paid $3200 (ebay) for it and I just use it mainly for racing. I removed the centre 2 seats and moved the rear bench seat up behind the front seats. then put down a heavy rubber cargo mat. Plently of lockable space for all the race gear, and out of the elements too. I've been using vans for going racing for over a decade - can't beat them and not much $$$ tied up. For longer hauls I use the motorhome....

gran racing
09-08-2004, 08:31 AM
After trying to use an old Bronco as a tow vehicle for several months, it got very tiring having the biggest worry of racing being getting to and from the event. I later found out that one of the 8 cyl. was bad which led to the lack of power.

I ended up consolidating including selling my beloved sports car (nothing that special but I had wanted it for many, many years). I thought it was really going to stink and I would regret doing this. But, I was very pleasently surprised. Insurance went down especially with less cars, repairs, taxes, ect.

I ended up buying a used V8 Toyota Tundra auto. (so it can tow 7,200 lbs). My wife loves it too! I would say it is really a cross between a car and a truck. Some of my friends told me that wasn't a "real" truck. But I don't have a problem with a comfortable ride. It also has an exhaust system on it, which makes it a bit more fun. The biggest problem I had was finding a used one at a decent price. They really hold their value. They also are very reliable! Check out Consumer Reports and some other magazines that rate it. If you want more room and can afford a new one, they came out with a nice crew cab that has plenty of room for 4 adults.

I like the idea of an enclosed trailer but I've been told by many that it is a pain to tow (visibility, weight, ect.). My friend is lucky enough to have an option to borrow either an alum. open trailer or an enclosed trailer and has a vehicle that can tow either one. He has never brought the enclosed one yet. And get a nice tent and air mattress if you want to sleep at the track. Don't get me wrong, the idea of an enclosed trailer does sound nice. But heck, an open trailer also sounds nice to me! (Still stuck using a tow dolly)

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

Ron Earp
09-08-2004, 10:15 AM
Good advice here on the tow cars. If I had the space to keep another car I'd do just what some of you have done - get a little older truck for not much money and use it. They can be plenty reliable. But, if I did that'd get KILLED at home. Hell, I might get killed anyway for swapping cars around so much. But, like I said, I didn't think I'd like the idea of racing so much but there you go. Got to do what you are drawn toward when it bites, life is too short.

Have to say that I agree with you on 4 wheel drive. We basically only have 1-2 days with snow down here and I can chain it or stay home, either way. Other than that it only rains. I don't off-road and don't pretend to, so, probably don't need 4 wheel drive.

The extended cab might be useful though. Seems a lot of trucks have them these days, even the half doors are sort of cool.

Anyone sleep in the bed of their truck? Seems like that would be nice - air matress, maybe a bed cover, should work?

Ron

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited September 08, 2004).]

gran racing
09-09-2004, 08:14 AM
The Nissan Titan seems like another really nice truck...

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

gsbaker
09-09-2004, 09:53 AM
A couple of "different" ideas:

1) For something that works as a daily driver, consider a full-frame wagon with a big block. These are out of production so you will be shopping for a '90s Chevy Caprice or Buick equivalent. I know, I know, it sounds weird at first, but think about it. Properly equipped these things can pull substantial loads, have gobs of room, lots of creature comforts and are inexpensive.

2) For a dedicated hauler consider an RV. A friend picked up a small (very) used one for going to the track and keeps the trailer hooked up. I realize you can't swing this at home, Ron, but it is, IMHO, the perfect solution.

Gregg

Tom Donnelly
09-09-2004, 10:03 AM
I can add a don't. Don't use a Tahoe or something similar and an enclosed trailer. You'll regret it. Best scenario is 22 - 24' enclosed trailer with 2500-3500 pickup. If you really want to go the best route - dually with a gooseneck trailer. Nascar teams use Featherlite or Gold Rush. NHRA uses Classic. I'm really dreaming here though, for the price of a Featherlite or Gold Rush you could buy a used tractor / trailer rig.

My preferences are Classic Dominator, Pace Shadow GT, Haulmark Edge. And if you can afford a 24', do it. You can add cabinets and stuff that won't fit in a 20.

An enclosed is great when it rains. And you can change clothes in it. And sleep in it. Its hard to find a place to store it cheaply unless you have the right kind of yard and no neighborhood committee.

Tom

Ron Earp
09-09-2004, 10:22 AM
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">1) For something that works as a daily driver, consider a full-frame wagon with a big block. These are out of production so you will be shopping for a '90s Chevy Caprice or Buick equivalent. I know, I know, it sounds weird at first, but think about it. Properly equipped these things can pull substantial loads, have gobs of room, lots of creature =</font>

Actually, this was my first thought!!!! But like you said they are out of production. Even went to www.stationwagon.com (http://www.stationwagon.com), a site that used to have a lot for sale - nice old ones too, but the site stopped in 2002. I used to have a Mercury wagon with a 460 (built to get rid of 70s smog crap) that would tow whatever was needed. Air shocks in the rear too. All I did was drag race it since it has a hand-me-down from my dad while I was in high school.

Older wagons in good shape are hard to get nowdays. And, even the big BuickRoadmaster of early 90s vintage don't hold a candle to the Vista Cruisers, etc. from the past.

What would really be cool is a Ford Ranchero with a 460. Might check on that, but the wife would kill me.

Keep the good ideas flowing!!

As for enclosed, I live in a neighbor that is pretty tight no no-go on storage for that thing. I'm going open and light for my first trailer - money and storage both dictate that.


------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

gsbaker
09-09-2004, 11:36 AM
Ron,

A quick search on traderonline.com yielded several late '90s Caprice wagons. Some even had faux wood panelling on the side. Oooooo! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

Gregg

jake7140
09-09-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by gsbaker:
Ron,

A quick search on traderonline.com yielded several late '90s Caprice wagons. Some even had faux wood panelling on the side. Oooooo! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

Gregg


ONLY the Buick Roadmasters had the LT1 350, the Chevy and Olds were 305s. 94-96 post more HP, and can be found with towing pkg including trans cooler and posi. Nice rides, last forever. NOT a lot of rear cargo height. I had one for a while, and the back floor is only about a foot or so below the bottom of the window.

They're still on my "I could use that car" list. Good MPG too. Some even turn them into a 'Impala SS' clone. Now if they could just cut the rear fender well up around the wheel they wouldn't be so terd ugly.

There's always this approach (last picture on the page) http://members.aol.com/lwolfracin/buick.html

------------------
Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>

[This message has been edited by jake7140 (edited September 09, 2004).]

Ron Earp
09-09-2004, 03:44 PM
Now that is sweet!!!! And, it'd be cool to drive and take care of business. Plus, it wouldn't cost a fortune and it'd be fairly easy to take care of and modify.

I got an idea - I'm racing a 1974 so I should go all 74. Period 74 tow vehicle, trailer, 8 track, haircut, bellbottoms, etc!

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited September 09, 2004).]

gsbaker
09-09-2004, 05:35 PM
That's a hoot! And I like the bellbottom idea also.

Steve,

I'm not up to speed on the drivetrain options, but didn't the 400CID motor (small block casting with siamesed cylinders) find it's way into the Chevy wagon? Or do I have the years wrong?

Gregg

Ron Earp
09-09-2004, 09:10 PM
This would make a kicking tow car and driver:

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/535969

The 429 can be taken out to 514 inches with no trouble. With a beefed up C6 you could tow anything needed I'd think.

R

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

jake7140
09-10-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by gsbaker:
That's a hoot! And I like the bellbottom idea also.

Steve,

I'm not up to speed on the drivetrain options, but didn't the 400CID motor (small block casting with siamesed cylinders) find it's way into the Chevy wagon? Or do I have the years wrong?

Gregg

Maybe in someone's garage! But I think your years are wrong. I seem to remember that during the grim years (post 72 ish) when they started with the real square ones, they put just junk in them. Earlier they had the 350/400/455s in the big wagons with the cool stuff such as clamshell doors, etc. But starting in '91 (start of slick terd model)at least for the wagons, they went 305 for chev/olds, 350 (lt-1 for 94-96)for buick.

------------------
Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>

miketrier
09-17-2004, 10:57 PM
I've been towing a 8x20 enclosed Pace trailer with an ITA Mazda RX7 and lots of spare parts and tires with a Chevy conversion van since 1998 without problems. The engine is 350 vortec. I take out the middle 2 seats. The rear bench is 3-part that you can sleep on lenghtwise. I seldom spring for a motel and my wife and I use the van for camping vacations. It really rides and drives just fine. It pulls the loaded trailer 75 mph without a problem and I don't need to go any faster than that. Enclosed trailers make a nice garage for storing the race car over the winter.

Bill Miller
09-18-2004, 01:45 PM
Jeff,

If you're getting 10 mpg out of a 454 Suburan, while you're towing, you're doing great! We pulled a 20' enclosed trailer w/ an EP RX7 to Road America las year w/ a 2500 Vortex 454 2WD Suburban, and the best we ever got was 7mpg. Most of the time, it was 6 - 6.5 mpg.

Ron,

I know a guy that has a mid-70's Pontiac Catalina wagon w/ a 455 in it. Passes everything but a gas station!

I'd love to have a V10 TDI Toureg as a tow vehicle, but I'd have to sell the race car and trailer (as well as the house) to be able to afford one. I wish VW would put that motor in a truck!!!!

For an open trailer, an F150 or a C/K 1500 is probably fine. Forget it w/ an enclosed trailer. The first year I had my 24' Haulmark, I used my '89 K1500 w/ a TBI 350 in it to tow. It was fine as long as the road was flat!

I'd go w/ either a Ford w/ a PS, or the 6.0 Chevy HD. Go w/ at least a 2500 (required w/ both of these engines). And you may want to rethink 4WD if you go to tracks w/ grass paddock areas. I've seen plenty of 2WD trucks get stuck trying to get out of a wet paddock.

Something else to consider, although not very common, would be something like an E250 van w/ a PS. You can order them that way, and used ones are out there (I've even heard of 4WD versions).

To me, the only way to go is enclosed trailer. No unloading everything when you get home. Makes a nice place to store the car, out of the weather. And it makes a nice place to crash at the track. I set up mine w/ a TV, VCR (need a cheap DVD), coffee pot, microwave/toaster oven, and plnety of lights. We've slept 4 people in there w/o any problems.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

Ron Earp
09-18-2004, 04:25 PM
Bill,
I went and drove a few trucks, the Ford, Dodge, and Toyotas. Man, the full size trucks are just too big to drive everyday. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm just one of those people that don't want a truck, but, my hobbies are starting to demand I have something like that.
Ron

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

Ron Earp
09-19-2004, 10:25 AM
I looked at those Nissian Titans today - anyone have one of these? Seems nice, without the full 4 door cab not so big, and the interior is better than the Dodge and Chevys by far (new Ford is still really nice). Also seems like it would handle towing with no problem. Comments?

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

Bill Miller
09-19-2004, 11:23 AM
Ron,

Is it practical for you to have an extra vehicle that's just used for towing? If so, get a truck/van, and then get something else for a daily driver.

I don't really know anything about the Titans, excpet that I've seen a couple on the road.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

JeffYoung
09-19-2004, 11:59 AM
Bill, oddly enough I get 10 mpg towing or not towing. Now, I tow less weight thatn you (open trailer, 2500 lb car), but it still surprised me that I didn't get significantly less gas mileage with the trailer on the car.

In a year or so I am going to make the jump to the enclosed trailer. Will the 2500 454 Burb handle it ok?

Ron, a post of mine above disappeared. Something to consider with p/ups and SUVS like Range Rovers is wheel base. A short wheel base SUV is NO FUN to tow with (especially an underpowered one). Can you say swaying in the wind?

Jeff

Bill Miller
09-19-2004, 02:31 PM
Jeff,

That BBB (big-block 'burban) will handle that enclosed trailer just fine. We ran out I-80 at 75mph w/ the A/C on, and the truck didn't even blink.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

Ron Earp
09-19-2004, 03:47 PM
I'm maxed out on cars, if one more shows up I'm divorced.

I have the Lotus for fun, same as Jeff. And I have the M3 I drive daily, with the JH and GT40 under construction. Garage is full, three are in the driveway, there is no way in hell another car is coming here. So, whatever I drive daily needs to tow this race car, no bones about it. I just want whatever I drive daily to be comfortable, of good quality, and handle towing/house duties.

Jeff, I've decided against SUVs. I'd need a large one to do the job, and, I don't want one that large as useful as they are. I like the open bed usefulness of a truck so that is what I'm leaning toward. I'm just trying to find one that meets critera:

1) Nice interior with good features - that is, seats, options, etc. as close to a high end sedan as I can get.
2) Not so damn big.
3) Not so damn tall, I'm only 5'8" on a good day.
4) V8, on general principals
5) No Bow Ties, on general principals
6) It needs to last a long time

And I didn't mention towing because anything I'm considering with tow the JH and open trailer just fine. Heck, we use my dad's minivan to pull 3100lbs of boat just fine.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

dickita15
09-19-2004, 06:28 PM
ron
look at a V8 2 wheel drive dodge dakota. I loved my 99. posi, lots of tire, great at highway speeds and would tow 6500 pounds. as long as you stay with an open trailer it will work fine. I now have a 3/4 ton hemi 4x4 so i can plow snow and tow mt enclosed trailer but i sure miss the smaller truck
dick patullo

Ralf
09-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Jeff,


I'd love to have a V10 TDI Toureg as a tow vehicle, but I'd have to sell the race car and trailer (as well as the house) to be able to afford one. I wish VW would put that motor in a truck!!!!




Hey Bill, go to www.VW.com (http://www.VW.com). Under models is a link to their concept vehicles. Check out the AAC.


------------------
Ralf
ITB Golf GT
Parked till '06 http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited September 20, 2004).]

apr67
09-20-2004, 12:57 PM
I just bought a new Chevy silvardo, 2x4, 5.7l, extended cab short bed pickup (2004).

It has decent options (tow package, 7600lbs, Trac control, Limited Slip, CD, power seat, and such). It cost about $23,000 with GM rebates. It drives well, rides well and gets about 14/19.

I like driving trucks everyday. I like being able to see over the traffic. I like having my bumper up around everyone elses winshield. I think it helps me get respect from all the idiots in little cars zipping in and out of traffic!

Tom Donnelly
09-20-2004, 03:42 PM
Anyone ever consider renting a truck/RV or whatever? I've thought about it since I'd only tow about 15 times a year tops. But its nice to have a truck for all the grunt work.

Tom

gsbaker
09-20-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Tom Donnelly:
Anyone ever consider renting a truck/RV or whatever? I've thought about it since I'd only tow about 15 times a year tops. But its nice to have a truck for all the grunt work.

Tom

Tom,

Renting an RV makes a lot of sense for an occasional race weekend. We've done it for football games and such, but never towed anything. Our last rental was a 28' with a V10.

A 3-day weekend rental is about $250-300. Even if you do it once a month it's pretty attractive compared to lease/loan payments for a dedicated tow vehicle--and it has all the creature comforts.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

Bill Miller
09-20-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by apr67:
I just bought a new Chevy silvardo, 2x4, 5.7l, extended cab short bed pickup (2004).

It has decent options (tow package, 7600lbs, Trac control, Limited Slip, CD, power seat, and such). It cost about $23,000 with GM rebates. It drives well, rides well and gets about 14/19.

I like driving trucks everyday. I like being able to see over the traffic. I like having my bumper up around everyone elses winshield. I think it helps me get respect from all the idiots in little cars zipping in and out of traffic!

I thought Chevy quit offering the 350/5.7 2 years ago???

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

apr67
09-20-2004, 08:52 PM
Misstyped.

5.3l

Ron Earp
10-03-2004, 06:34 AM
Well, much as some might hate to hear it I think I've selected a truck I'll go with, a Lightning.

A buddy of mine hooked me up with Ford's A Plan pricing (he's my father now, for the week) and the prices make a new Ford truck the same as a 2-3 year old used one. Since I have to use this thing every day to communte the fun to drive factors highly into my decision and the Lightning can tow enough as well.

While only factory rated at 5000lbs the Lightning folks routinely tow much more as the truck has the same tranny as in the PowerSmoke automatic and a huge rear end with some huge brakes as well.

Some might poop on the 2wd thing, but I'm in NC with 3 snow days a year. My job does not demand I show up, so, I can work from home on those days or drive my wife's Volvo. I don't see hauling around the extra 4wd stuff on the truck all year for the 1 hour I'd use it per year, when I got stuck in the mud at a paddock. But, then you guys can help me out, right? For some beer? ;-)

However, after having driven just about every damn truck available (even drove a Chevy) in the last month if I were after a full size truck and cared about some sort of rear seat I'd seriously look at the Nissan Titan. Very strong motor, interior that smokes the competition, and would probably be very reliable.

R

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited October 03, 2004).]

lateapex911
10-03-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by rlearp:
Well, much as some might hate to hear it I think I've selected a truck I'll go with, a Lightning.

A buddy of mine hooked me up with Ford's A Plan pricing (he's my father now, for the week) and the prices make a new Ford truck the same as a 2-3 year old used one. Since I have to use this thing every day to communte the fun to drive factors highly into my decision and the Lightning can tow enough as well.

While only factory rated at 5000lbs the Lightning folks routinely tow much more as the truck has the same tranny as in the PowerSmoke automatic and a huge rear end with some huge brakes as well.

Some might poop on the 2wd thing, but I'm in NC with 3 snow days a year. My job does not demand I show up, so, I can work from home on those days or drive my wife's Volvo. I don't see hauling around the extra 4wd stuff on the truck all year for the 1 hour I'd use it per year, when I got stuck in the mud at a paddock. But, then you guys can help me out, right? For some beer? ;-)

However, after having driven just about every damn truck available (even drove a Chevy) in the last month if I were after a full size truck and cared about some sort of rear seat I'd seriously look at the Nissan Titan. Very strong motor, interior that smokes the competition, and would probably be very reliable.

R




Smart move Ron. Agree wholeheartedly on the folly of 4WD. Why ruin 362 days of driving to make 3 days easier?

What gives it the 5000lb limitation?

Maybe airbags will help its load carrying/level performance?


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Ron Earp
10-03-2004, 02:41 PM
I haven't found out why the rating is only 5000lbs although I've asked around plenty. That was when I found out people are hauling 7500+ with it on a regular basis. With 380/450 hp/torque standard, and more easily obtained with pulley swaps on the blower, it ought to tow more.

Hardware wise it has everything that a regular F150 rated at 7500 has. I imagine it has to do with possible warranty claims problems with the supercharged V8 that people are going to rag on to some extent being in an SVT product.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

JIgou
10-05-2004, 11:05 AM
I believe the ol Dakota R/T was down-rated in towing capacity as well, and I'm pretty sure that was because of the spring package under the machine - lower stance, etc.

I'd bet it's the same thing with the Lightning - at least from the afore-mentioned liability standpoint.

Jarrod

JeffYoung
10-05-2004, 12:32 PM
That's going to be a cool tow vehicle. Faster than most race cars (certainly mine!).

Jeff

dickita15
10-05-2004, 04:38 PM
my sources say the dakota r/t was down graded because of the wheels they put on it. who knows but i would be curious in the suoercharger is the reason. remember the typhoon that was rated to tow 500 pounds.
dick

Ron Earp
10-06-2004, 07:27 AM
5000 is enough, but I haven't found a straight answer on the towing. I do know that a lot of guys use them on the Lightning forum and some of those jokers tow 3 horse trailers at over 7800 with no ill effects. I always figured it was a bad idea to drive or ride anything with a brain the size of an grapefruit, but I digress. I'm sure I'll be fine at around 4-5000.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

MSPERBER
10-06-2004, 03:35 PM
ron, I hope your new dad really is, as Ford Motor is cracking the whip on dealers faking A plan purchases. Be careful and don't advertise. I am a Ford Dealer and what they did is is like passing under a full course double yellow. Game over your out.

Quickshoe
10-07-2004, 10:13 PM
Could be totally off, as I haven't seen a stock lightning in sometime...

Do they come stock with 40/45/50 series tires? Perhaps the load rating of the tires is the limiting factor?

Ron Earp
10-07-2004, 11:05 PM
Could be the tires, good point.

As for the whip, well, "my dad" has been a Ford engineer for 32 years and will retire next year. A good fellow, and, in his words "I'll take the heat for it, don't worry, we're retiring to Mexico Summer of 2005". His wife is from there and I think they're looking to a happy retirement. His words, not mine, and also on another forum if Ford wants to read. Good man and I owe him a lot, so, I'm trying to help him sell his GT40 through my site, www.gt40s.com (http://www.gt40s.com), of which he is a member. Again, his words but unless you or the couple of other Ford related folks that might read here takes this to task I think he is just fine and I'll certainly repay the favor in kind. Point taken though and I hope these posts will not cause trouble.

Besides, this damn thing is so much fun that I'd gladly pay the difference. Frankly, I'm amazed with what SVT has done and that it has so much potential untapped. Guys that insist on 4wd are really missing out on a truck that not only can get the job done but is a hoot to drive everyday.

"Yeah, but it's a Ford". Well, yeah, but Chevy has always been sucking hind teat.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!


[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited October 07, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited October 07, 2004).]