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View Full Version : Best price on Innovate LM1 Wideband O2 sensor/logger ?



imported_Webmaster
01-10-2005, 05:28 PM
Anyone know if this available for less than $349?
..and yes I'd consider other high quality WBo2 kits that have the same features or more.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

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Webmaster - www.ImprovedTouring.com (http://www.ImprovedTouring.com)
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1stGenBoy
01-10-2005, 05:54 PM
$349.00 seems to be the going rate for these. Pegasus Auto Racing now stocks these as well. Part#3875
www.pegasusautoracing.com (http://www.pegasusautoracing.com)

Bob

01-13-2005, 03:00 AM
We don't offer a wideband o2 meter but we do offer an 02 meter that works very well on early, cheaper o2 sensors and does the same thing, very fast analog meter, not pretty but fast. We have sold alot of these, comes with cig lighter plug and wiring for direct connect for diagnostic repairs, can be hard wired.

First you need to know what your actually seeing in the readings, and know where to look, and what normal is. Owning the tool is just half of the fight. Ours does not record readings but is very accurate.

Really happy to see that your not looking for EGT sensors, we call them burnt a piston, anyone see the reading? Yep cold, 02 meter on .2 lean as hell.

If you want one let me know, together or apart, board, box, meter, however you want it I will send it to you free, we were doing this long before this expensive crap came out.

Sold many to customers that call back and say that the meter is all over the place? Guess what you have problems!! Everything from drag boats to everyday usage in our shop you won't beat it!! Analog is the only way to go, not led, not digital, the refreash rate is too slow.

Wide ban 02 sensors just narrow the reading field, closer reading, humm explain? The manufactures have a problem with complaints that a car surges, the surge is coming from closed loop, they made the 02 sensor read in a wider band so the ECU would keep faster/closer track of the oxygen reading making the normal driver less apt to feel the normal thing us mechanics feel (closed loop).

If you have never owned an 02 meter you will have a hard time relating what you feel in the seat of your pants and what the meter is telling you.

Probably wasting my time and you all know this already, but I just thought (education is the best policy).

Besides you will get off for about $30.00 for the 02 sensor, you just buy a normal 3 wire 02 sensor and use your eyes. I will send you the Bung, I will send you the sensor also if you buy! LOL Look for a 02 sensor for a ford bronco about 89, lots of them made and it made the sensors cheap.

(I just looked at the innovative site you posted admin and I say not good!) (Edited)


Beat this deal.

Just an offer.

Mont

Edit typo not 98, 89 Bronco.

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 13, 2005).]

imported_Webmaster
01-13-2005, 10:45 AM
Mont,
What is the AFR range through which your meter works?

Eagle7
01-13-2005, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Webmaster:
Anyone know if this available for less than $349?
..and yes I'd consider other high quality WBo2 kits that have the same features or more.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

Anybody know how this compares with a PLX unit?

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

01-13-2005, 10:44 PM
Our analog meter shows a voltage value given by the oxygen sensor, the scale goes fron .0 to 1.0v, generally the engines run their best with a .85-.9 reading when in open loop (preprogrammed fuel curve, to the floor), anything over this the engine goes over rich and looses power, with a turbo application you will burn pistons with a .6-.7 depending on the accuracy of the fuel system and fuel distribution.

Methanol is not a problem either, the sensor reads oxygen not fuel.

Hope this helps, there a sites on the web that do a better job explaining it than I can do here.

Mont

imported_Webmaster
01-14-2005, 12:47 AM
I need to know the AFR range not the voltage. However from that voltage it looks pretty standard. 14:1-16:1 range right?



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Webmaster - www.ImprovedTouring.com (http://www.ImprovedTouring.com)
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01-14-2005, 01:53 AM
Yes, but 14:1 being optimum for some engines it may not be for others. Never can take it for granted what one engine wants to another, runners, injector placement and spray camshaft overlap, ignition, temp, fuel, compression, it all plays a factor, we have found that 14:1 is about .8 on a 3 wire o2 sensor in comparison to one of those led meters that has all of the ratio's. LED or digital is just much slower than a analog meter infact might just cost you a piston.

Go to a really ugly web site and you can see the meter. Just type in Montzauto into your browser and the members AOL site will come up, go there and look, Pocket Rocket has the ugly site also listed, there are alot of sites for us just type.

Whatever you want to do, no matta me.
Can't even give stuff away (picky bastard) Just kidding. I know you don't want to waste your time and want to be sure. go look. we are for real, you will see alot of our dyno stuff, please bear in mind, that site is going,going,going,gone soon. better one gettin done (anything is better than that!).

Edit, the meter is the same size the case that it is in is 1/2 the size on the site.

BTW, can you tell I did the site on a rain drenched day? When it rains here it stops everything, brain cells included.

Mont

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 14, 2005).]

imported_Webmaster
01-14-2005, 10:04 AM
but 14:1 being optimum for some engines

Optimum for low emmissions, but engines produce peak power with air fuel ratios in the 12:1 - 13.5:1 range well below the measuring capability of a narrow band lambda sensor.

we do offer an 02 meter that works very well on early, cheaper o2 sensors and does the same thing

But it doesn't really. Your NB sensor is limited to the above range. Beyond this range, the sensor output does not increase or decrease making it virtually useless for tuning an engine for power.

LED or digital is just much slower than a analog meter infact might just cost you a piston

That's crazy talk.

01-14-2005, 11:44 AM
Like I said, you need to do more reading before you spend 300+.

If you say that the narrow band o2 sensor will not read the high power mixtures then why do we loose power and see black smoke at a 1.0 reading? Because the o2 sensor goes well past the optimum power mixture.

I'm not going to argue with you, do what you want.

Mont.

apr67
01-14-2005, 11:56 AM
Narrow band?

Gee, so all the car companys that are moving to the Wide Band Ox sensor know nothing, eh?

Beware of wide band controllers that to not do a good job of maintaining consistant tempature at the sensor. This is where the accuracy really seems to come into play.

I would study this site, they don't have anything to sell, these are the same guys who did the megasquirt DYI fuelinjection.

http://www.megasquirt2.com/PWC/index.htm

01-14-2005, 12:14 PM
apr67, please read the older posts before you post.

Forgot to mention the lower part of your post webmaster about didital and LED being as fast as analog, let me ask you a question, have you ever tried to read rapidly changing voltages with a digital meter? What did you see? a bunch of garbled lines that never made sense? Yep, that is what we see too, LED the refreash rate is very slow in comparison to a analog but better than a digital meter by far, it's just hard to read the blinking lights at a glance, how many bulbs into the green was that?

Mont

pfcs
01-14-2005, 09:08 PM
I've had great success using the DIY/OZ ver 1.5 wideband and logging A/F, rpm, and airflow meter load signal to a PDA on the dash, which plays back all3 channels graficly as well as giving digital values wherever you put the cursor. The 1.5 has been superceded by the 2.0 which logs 6 channels? including at least 2 pyrometers and 2 or more 0-5v channels, rpm and A/F ratio. A complete setup, including very nice digital diplay (velcro to dash) is about $500 US including sensor. An intersting possibility: download to a PC using some kind of grafic and you have a dynamometer/data aq system. Very interesting data to play with.
regarding narrow band sensors-about all they're useful for in a racecar is to tell if you're very lean. Below 14.0/1 they're useless (and above 15/1 as well) They are resovable only in a narrow band after which their voltage slope is almost zero/useless-unless, of course, you want to toggle a mixture around stoich to feed a 3 way catalyst. This is why all vehicles w/narrowband sensors go into open loop at full throttle and revert to fueling tables in the ECU, burned into the pertinent area of the chip, values that in most piston vehicles become much too lean when we increase the airflow beyond what the manufacturer expected and programmed the chip for. The wideband and pda tell the tale with just one pull down the straight, street or dyno. but thats a whole nother story.
phil

pfcs
01-14-2005, 09:11 PM
PS: search for diy/oz or www.techedge.com (http://www.techedge.com).
au/


[This message has been edited by pfcs (edited January 15, 2005).]

01-14-2005, 10:04 PM
Thanks Phil, good info.

Mont

apr67
01-15-2005, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Marzracing:
apr67, please read the older posts before you post.


Mont.

Please make sense before you post.

You explination doesn't match the data sheet on wide band o2 sensors.

Have a nice life.

Ralf
01-16-2005, 09:40 AM
www.widebandcommander.com (http://www.widebandcommander.com) has a complete kit you might want to check out too.


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Ralf
ITB Golf GT
Parked till '06 :(

01-19-2005, 12:19 AM
Thanks Ralf,

Nice ANALOG meter on this one! Too bad it is not in VOLTS and is in RATIO! It would be alot faster in volts, you might even see a misfire before it is too late, but the best one yet.

Might even call the company to see if they offer the system in VOLTS? The meter refresh rate will be alot faster if in voltage, they had to slow the equipment down to show ratio instead of volts for the hobbiest and not the mechanic. Maybe they just take an average sample? You need to look into that.

I like the meter and the setup just not the price,(ouch) and possibly the sampling/ refresh rate.

Mont

Bildon
01-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Just use a logger like the TechEdge has.

pfcs
01-20-2005, 11:50 PM
the analog meter IS reading volts! If you're so hung up on voltage, then convert A/F ratios to volts-I'm sure the tables are easily found on the NET-and write them in crayon on the guage face! And if you're using a lambda meter to see misfires, you're fishing in a toxic pool. A properly setup (i.e: good ignition/reliable fueling) engine, operating anywhere near the ballpark will not misfire. And you won't need a guage to tell you when it does.
ps: I'm a mechanic too, and when I measure yards, I use a yardstick. when I measure volts, I use a voltmeter. and when I measure air/fuel ratio....
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phil hunt

[This message has been edited by pfcs (edited January 20, 2005).]

apr67
01-20-2005, 11:56 PM
This is way out there.

An 4 cylinder engine running at say, 3000 rpm has 25 fires per second.

And you are going to read a misfire off a voltage guage? 1/25 of a second?

Maybe a little too much CO2.

pfcs
01-21-2005, 12:19 AM
quite right. In fact, the Vout of the TechEdge unit is anlog voltage (see their website for coversion tables for their unit) which the datalogging software in your PDA or laptop up-converts to the digital domain with a fairly fast sampling rate that I don't remember. Monitoring Vout on a digital storage scope (there's tht nasty digital stuff again) might reveal individual misfire events, but I'd prefer to sit back and listen.


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phil hunt

01-21-2005, 12:59 AM
Phil your right! The system reads in volts! The Oxygen sensor puts out volts! Glad we got that right! Why show the readings in ratio? Why the delay for conversion? If you have never built a system from the circut board to the finished product, only used one then you won't even know what i'm talking about! We made our meters years ago and use them daily!

We build fuel systems and it is a great tool to save on parts. What else are you going to use that is as accurate and as fast Phil? EGT, NOT!!

Phil? How many dyno's do you have and what kind? How many fuel systems have you made? Are you mostly into resale car sales? Is that the biggest part of the business?

I forgot to add the part about "if" your smart enough to know what the meter is trying to tell you. You will even know to flow your injectors, yes, uneven fuel distribution we see on the meter. What do you use on customer cars Phil?

Did all of you know that Bosch allows for a 10% difference in flow between injectors? Call them and just try to pry that out of them. Humm, not good, burnt piston in turbo world.

As far as using a CRAYON? To write on the face of a guage like a child, (I think that was directed at me some how?) Try spelling MUSIC for me Phil, please correct your profile, driving me nuts! You have forgotten the http:// before your website address, (honest mistake), With that, a person can just click on that address from your profile and go right to your site, Phil has a very nice site I will add, go there and see. I think he is the (onry)? (my spellaring)? looking guy sitting at the table.

I mailed you about about the profile thing, you didn't reply.

Enough of this crap. Buy yourself a unit! I dont give a shite, God knows your not smart enough to build a unit yourself? Hell most of you don't even know what the meter is trying to tell you anyway, but boyhowdy "yes" you read the directions! And the spec sheet on 02 sensors, now your an Expert Engineer.

Don't be pissin in my toxic pool, go build your own pool. LOL. See you in the rear view.

BTW, I wrote this with a smile on my face and a beer in my hand, this site "is" about conversation and fun isn't it? Just don't try to give anything away! LOL

Mont.





[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 21, 2005).]

imported_Webmaster
01-26-2005, 09:53 AM
>> Why the delay for conversion?

Delay? In nanoseconds? Picoseconds?

>> Phil? How many dyno's.. How many fuel systems... resale car sales?...

Knowing Phil I can atest that he is a better technician that you appear to be.
Your posts all over this forum and are full of crap and childish personal attacks won't be tolerated. Goodbye.

>> See you in the rear view.

Oh Phil. Congrats on your 2004 NYSRRC championship!



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